Israel must be held to same nuclear scrutiny as Iran

We have to tickle such subjects where every body is scared of.
Why are American people afraid of talking about this issue???

Why are we surprised at this? Israel is one of the world leaders in brain trust. If we can do it, they can do it!

I do not see why Israel should be able to get a free pass to do whatsoever they please. The army (funded mainly by US tax dollars) murders innocent people, including women and children in their homes, and the world turns a blind eye. Their possession of these weapons is well known, but little discussed. Scary to think these military psychos have a finger on such a trigger. Bravo Current.

American Politicians are afraid of Israel. There has been a long history of American politicians having their careers destroyed for criticizing Israel. And to prove that this has resulted in fear, one has only to look at the reactions of politicians concerning any matter of Israel. I reffer you to USS Liberty incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident).

There are many American politicians who are ashamed of the things that Israel does, but they are powerless to challenge them. Besides, we gave them their nuclear technology, so naturally, it's in America's best interest to keep it a secret.

The fact is, 60 years ago, we created the Nation of modern day Israel out of what was at that time, Palestinian property. We made the mistake of thinking the Jewish people would be in our debt. We have armed them with nuclear weapons and have sent them billions of dollars every year as if they were the greatest welfare nation the world has ever known. But Israel has only returned spit in the eye of America and American politicians. They have never done anything for us in return. If it wasn't for the fact that they have our politicians by the short hairs, we would have abandoned those ingrates long ago.

Israel is no "Ally" to the United states.

I agree that all nations should be held to a common standard.

Israel is one of our closest allies unlike Iran which is one of our largest enemies. I am sure that your accurate in stating that Israel has had nuclear weapons for more than 30 years which also supports the fact that they are for defense purposes only (or they would have used them by now.) Iran on the other hand has made it known publicly what their intentions are. Arab countries have been at war with Israel since they became a country. Any way keep it simple and real. Don't get caught up in all the propaganda and look at the facts.

The "fact" is: Israel is no Ally to The United States.
And Iran is not "our" enemy, they are Israel's enemy, and they only have a problem with the United States because we do Israel's bidding.

Furthermore, seeing as how Israel has several hundred nuclear warheads and Iran currently has none, one must wonder why Israel would need us to protect them from Iran.

Seems that your reading choice material and have a biased opinion. Feel free to have your view and make rediculous statements. I am in no way trying to spar with you over this. I just wanted to make my statement and you immediately attacked me. So make another ignorant message and have a nice day.

I'm just stating "actual facts" if you prefer to label them as "choice material", that's fine with me, but these things are common knowledge to most people who are informed about worldly matters.

And it's true I have a biased opinion... in fact, I've never heard of an opinion that is unbiased. But at least my opinion is based on facts.

If you would like to present some "facts" regarding some example of how Israel is our Ally and has done something for us (as opposed to something that serves their own interests) in the past 60 years, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

I agree with Tony!
If Israel is full of psychos with their finger on the button for THIRTY years (half of its 'life') why hasn't it pushed it?
If Israel had nuclear weapons and all the surrounding Arab worlds did not, nothing would happen (as it has for 30 years). No big booms.
If Israel did not have any nuclear weapons and Iran or Syria or Lebenon or Iraq, etc did then Israel would be as those country's leaders keep promising, wiped off the map.
So who are the crazy psychos?
And the IDF kills innocent women and children? During the Lebenon war (the most recent one) the Israeli Army dropped leaflets in both Hebrew and Arabic (that along with English are on all Israeli street signs) in places they were going to bomb for 2 days. Not the best strategy to kill the Hezbollah men who set up their rocket launch sites on roofs of busy apartment buildings, but the IDF wanted to take every precaution to make sure innocent civilians knew what was coming and left. Not something that's done by Hezbollah, Hamas or any one else. Trust me. When buses full of school children blew up daily, where were you to rant about innocent women and children being murdered? Not during a war either, during an intifada.
Or the Arabic terrorist who went into a Yeshiva school full of boys who would never even SERVE in the army because they are RELIGIOUS students, future rabbis, and mass murdered them. Where was the Current outrage about that? Until you've been to Israel and seen things with your own eyes, you do not know what you're talking about. When you see King David's tomb with the hall of the Last Supper on top with a Mosque built on top of that, the archeology shows who was 'there first' if that is the argument you want to run with. That the Jews came (British were there before the Jews) and kicked Palastinians out, that they were there first, well they were not. Just dig a little deeper. The Dome of the Rock was built on top of the second temple ruins. So much so that when they tried to destroy the ruins, they were forced to stop or else the Dome would collapse.
So before you start talking about Israelis being crazy psychos who go around killing little children, find out the facts. Try looking at both sides. Talk to an Arab man about it for a few hours, then an Israeli man. You'd be suprised what you can learn when you stop just reading what's spoon fed to you. Try The New York Times or CNN. As un-biased as you can find (stay away from BBC).

I don't think that I would gain any ground with you on this subject because I've dealt with your type before. As for facts well try to look in places other than the internet or television for your news or "facts". Try to remember that the world feeds off people like you. Getting all upset over the new conspiracy theory which I'm sure you will see plenty of here on the good ol' internet. Try to maybe look at the other side of things and don't get caught up in the hype.

no one said anything about Israel being full of psychos... the article was about a double standard.

so.... are you suggesting the USS Liberty event never happened?

Are you suggesting that it was "hype"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

How is it that the conversation has been bent from "Israel should be held to a common standard" to "but they're are friends..."?

:baffled:

Vasqi I will apologize now for attacking you. I just get a little tired of all the craziness and just wish for everyone to get along. But they never will. God gave this world to us not to fight over but to live on. I don't think either side will ever find peace until they understand that God's chosen people are the ones that choose love and understanding not hate and arrogance. Freedom is one thing that I believe in and it get's attacked from all sides. I don't know if you understand where I am coming from but I do know that we do have real enemies abroad and here in the good ol' USA as well. I served for 4 years in the military and believe very strongly in what America stands for. I am not ignorant and I don't believe in everything that we do or what Israel does. But I do know that on this side we do have freedom and that is crucial if you want to find peace.

I'll accept that, but I just don't think these things justify a double standard.

The only thing I want you to consider is to look at both sides of anything. "Double standard" sounds like more of that same retoric.

As others have done a good job of explaining, it is ludicrous to equate Israel with Iran in the nuclear question. The aims and motivations of these countries couldn't be more different.

To illustrate that as yourself two questions, what would happen if the Palestinians stopped fighting? Peace, slowly increasing prosperity, a chance to work out differences w/ Israel.

What would happen if Isreali's stopped fighting? They would be wiped out.

You can also compare the fate of a Palestinian who found themselves living in Israel. Better than in Palestine.

What would be the fate of a Jewish Israeli that found themselves in Palestine?

THE QUESTIONS ALL OF YOU SHOULD ASK FIRST:
WHERE DID iSRAEIL COME FROM?
WHO CREATED IT?
ON WOHSE BLOOD AND BODIES DID THEY BUILD THIS COUNTRY( ISRAEIL)?
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL PALESTINIAN CITIZENS WHO WERE LIVING IN THIS AREA WHEN ISRAEIL WAS CREATED?
WHY DID ALL THESE HOMLESS REFIGEES COME FROM?
HOW MANY PERSON WERE KILLED TO CREATE THIS COUNTRY?
IS THERE ANY PLACE IN THE WORLD IDENTIFIED BY THE RELIGION ELSE THAN ISRAEIL?( THE JEWS OUNTRY)
JUST QUESTIONS

Every time there has been a cease fire, Israel has broken it, so I think that pretty much disproves your assertion that peace would follow if Palestine would stop fighting. Unless by 'peace' you mean 'eternal peace'. Furthermore, Jewish people do live in Palestine. Everyone of those illegal settlements is illegal because it's in Palestinian territory.

But this post had absolutely nothing to do with Jews. It's about Israel, the Nation. And the double standard by which they exist. If they can't maintain themselves, under the same standards as their neighbors, then their neighbors should not be held to those standards either, because it would suggest that such standards were unrealistic.

What is this, "International Affirmative Action"?

It's really quite pathetic that a nation which purports to be 'the chosen people of God", should need us to baby sit them with the international community and to bend international law for them as if they were some defenseless third world country. I mean they have a fairly high standard of living, yet we provide them with 4 billion dollars a year, and get virtually nothing in return. And as I mentioned previously, they have hundreds of nuclear warheads that we also provided them with. In fact, they have such an unfair advantage, that it is absolutly amazing that they would have any reason to require that their neighbors be made to remain so repressed.

The fact is, Israel has nothing to fear from its neighbors, because it is more than capable of defending itself on account of its superior military might. That's a military superiority that we helped them to develop for nothing in return.

So why would they possibly need such an advantage unless they are so insecure that they feel the need to repress all other nations to secure their existence?

That's a huge sacrifice the rest of the world would have to make to appease this insecure nation. Perhaps we should leave their existence in their own hands and concern ourselves with our own existence. I for one, have no fears of what nations have nuclear weapons because lunatics have been in possession of these things for a long time now. There are already enough nuclear weapons to obliterate all life on this planet a few times over. But, they are only frightening when they are controlled by a single tyrant or a small group of tyrants. If everyone had them, they'd be irrelevant. We would never attack a nuclear power, nor would anyone else. That's exactly why we only go after countries that are not nuclear powers.

If you honestly believe that Iran, after producing a couple/few nukes, would use 'em up to shoot at Israel, who has several hundred, then you're not playing with a full deck. And if they did, do you really think that Israel, possessing several hundred nukes, would need any help from us or the international community? I can't imagine why.

It's far more likely, that If Iran developed nukes, which it has never stated an intent to do (they stated an intent to develop nuclear power actually), they would more than likely do it only as a deterrent from aggression by neighboring nuclear powers. And I think that's got alot more to do with all the objections, that the west does not want them to be able to defend themselves against nuclear aggression.

Yeah, you're right, it's all Israel's fault.

At the point that the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Israeli's there will be peace.

How about we keep racist statements out of this discussion? Claiming that Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their children is a ridiculous, unsubstantiated, racist accusation; shame on you, "historyeducation" for posting such rubbish and for believing it - if you actually do!!

As for the topic on hand, of course double-standards are in play and the formula is quite simple; friends of the USA are allowed to have nuclear weapons; others are not.

The sooner the US ousts its ZOG, the sooner it will recover from hard times. The weapons that Israel have, are because of American support, which wont (hopefully) last forever, then they will turn on you with these weapons. Wake up America!

The U.S. is an "ally" of Israel because it serves a purpose for the U.S. America does what it does to serve its own purposes, and for NO other reason. A country founded on slavery and geonocide never had a " moral authority" and it is delusional, in the clinical sense, to beieve it ever did.
Israel is in a strategic location in the middle east, which if you haven't noticed, King George W. Bush is interested in. Iraq is exactly what it is supposed to be. A seemingly endless bloody mess, which funnels billions and billions of dollars to the King's court, to the King's friends, and the King's friend's companies.
The King himself is doing quite nicely.
While the poorest of our citizens enlist in the military to fight against "the terrorists" , what do you think King George is doing? He is laughing in our faces! He cannot believe he has gotten away with this bullsh*t! When he is not laughing he is smirking, his smug, ugly expression belying the myth that he is utterly stupid. He and his administartion of pathological liars and war criminals are the real terrorists.How many Iraqi civilians has this country killed? I don't know because the news is filled with Britney Spears, and the Military/Industrial/MEDIA complex has worked, as per formula from the Pentagon.(see Pentagon Trojan Horses, 2 weeks ago, N.Y. Times) No more Vietnams at dinner time for them.
Wasn't it about 2 years before a photojournalist sneaked a picture of flag-draped coffins? Free press indeed; isn't that written down in some founding document of this country? Somewhere? Perhaps an amendment...is that what they call it?
While most of us go broke, can't pay for food, gas and many lose the house to the fats cats on Wall street, King George has pulled off the heist of all time. He makes "Tricky Dick" Nixon look like a bona fide American hero. When Congress AND the president are for sale, the citizenry better get smart and fast, but we don'tand most likely won't. We are in DENIAL.(see Freud 101, defense mechanisms)
Congratulations fellow citizens, we may never recover from this one.
My father lived through World War II, Hitler, Stalin, the Holocaust, 50 million people dead; and he told me
"This is worse. I am 85 years old and the country I believed in all my life doesn't exist any more. I'm afraid we'll never get it back."
I am afraid too Dad. But that is what they want; not
" the terrorists", but the Executive Branch of our own government.
Remember, things are never so bad that they can't get worse.
crveganrampageMay2008

Not long ago, Iran was a friend of the USA. The people of Iran have not forgotten that and welcome a dialogue with USA to reinstate diplomatic relations and end this ridiculous war of the words and threats of military attack that hangs like a dagger above their heads. This is while the Iranian nation has historically been on the losing end as far as their relationship with the USA is concerned (US supported coup of 1953, creation of the notorious CIA trained secret service SAVAK, Carter backing of the late Shah in spite of his violent crushing of the people, the list goes on and on). In fact, many would say that the reason Iran is at a place it is today is because of the grave foreign policy mistakes that the US made with regards to Iran between 1955 and 1978. We should learn to accept that, diplomatically, we screwed up big time with regards to Iran, just like we did with Afghanistan (mujahedin and Taliban) Africa and basically everywhere else. The only allies we have in the Middle East are those we pay hefty sums of money to! What do we stand to gain from attacking Iran? Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan that were smaller and had a less stable government than Iran does and the answer might be a little more obvious.

The truth is, the problem Iranians have with USA is exactly the one we have with Iran: neither like the other ones government. Since we are playing the game of ‘if’ consider these: what would happen if Iran would invade the Shi’a regions of Iraq and started Iranian settlements there? Or if they were to attack and invade Israel because they had intelligence that Israel is harboring WMD (hey, at least the intelligence would be true)?

The truth is only two countries in the Middle East have a) attacked and invaded their neighboring countries, and b) harbored WMD, Israel and Iraq. We all know what happened to Iraq, but Israel didn’t even get a slap on the wrist. There is a significant double standard regarding the way Israel is treated and it is a thorn in the eyes of the rest of the Middle Eastern countries who had no hand in the holocaust or the creation of Israel and yet stood to pay the price for it. If there is any solution to surface in the Middle East, this double standard has to change.

Going back to the case of Iran, Pakistan and India violated NPT and developed nukes as well, without any repercussions. If you were Iran and a country as big and powerful as the USA, who does the bidding of your enemy, Israel, and is allied with your nuke developing neighbor, Pakistan, had invaded your eastern and western neighbors, Afghanistan and Iraq, wouldn’t you want to defend yourself by any means possible? Honestly, wouldn’t you? This is while Iran claims that the only point of developing the nuclear technology is to create electricity. A little background on that, Iran’s major revenue is oil so even though they have it, they’d rather sell it than use it to create electricity. Furthermore, the Iranian Oil pocket would eventually run out so they are basically working to prevent the crisis instead of having to manage it when it happens. Iran is a very dry country and so a dam / electric turbine combination would almost never work. Having one of the largest and most polluted capital cities in the world, Tehran, Iran is very reluctant to use oil to create electricity as that would only add to the air pollution. This all makes sense assuming they are honest about their intentions. Further, USA just agreed to help Saudi Arabia create peaceful nuclear energy. Saudi Arabia has a very large oil reserve, is the number one violator of human rights in the middle east, and the country of citizenship of almost all the 9/11 hijackers that miraculously escaped the axis of evil list. All I have to say is, double standard.

One last thing, the last time Iran (it was called Persia at the time) invaded another country was about 300 years ago. Last time Israel invaded another country … you get the idea.

Vasqi- Thank you for making excellent points in all of your posts.

Israel as an entity, its relation to the U.S. and its place in the "terrorist" age that we now live in, is a subject that can fill volumes, so I will attempt to avoid questioning "Israel's right to exist", their inherently racist claim "as God's chosen people" and their illegal occuption of Palestinian lands, and illegal forays into Lebanon, Syria etc. in answering the question this article poses.

Should they recieve the same scrutiny as Iran? Absolutely and without question. Should the U.S. work to disarm its overstock of nuclear weapons to avoid a ridiculous hypocritical world position on nuclear power? Absolutely. Iran is interested in developing nuclear power to offset their oil production in order to allow for more export of oil in a time of record pricing that will only increase. Denying them this while continuing to support Israel with hundreds of billions of dollars in military aid and allowing them to stockpile nuclear weapons simply fuels the fire of the anti-American sentiment in this region. This is as simply put as you can answer this question. Don't hold yourself and allies to an outrageous double standard than your much weaker "enemies" and your foreign relations can be exercised through dimplomacy not through force.

A lot of folks think Israel is a sovereign state that is a democratic leader in the Middle East; however, facts prove to be different. Israel is the walking, talking puppet of the Unite States and will dance when the U.S. tells it to dance, and sing when it tells them to sing. It doesn't matter how many nuclear weapons Israel has because they're backed by the U.S., the nation that's all about freedom and justice for all right? And another country that definitely has nuclear weapons is China, how come nothing has been said about that? Oh yeah, where does a vast majority of the U.S.'s manufactoring? As long as a country has a U.S. hand on its shoulder, it doesn't matter what they do because Uncle Sam and Aunt Liberty got their back.

A few misconceptions need to be cleared up.
1. The Israeli military and tech industries are full of innovations that are routinely shared with Americans. The IDF has even trained American soldiers in joint exercises.
2. The land of palestine belonged to Jordan prior to 1948, it was known as transjordan.
3. Israel is not the US's puppet, and relations are quite good, though they don't always agree. Recently the US released confidential information regarding Israel's raid on Syrian nuclear facilities, because the US feared that Syria and Israel were about to make a peace agreement and this would upset the balance in the MidEast. Also, if you remember the first gulf war, Israel wanted to attack Iraq, which was bombing it with scuds, but the US insisted they hold back.

If we are talking about holding other countries to the same standard as far as nuclear weapons, where does our nuclear program fit into these standards?

maybe i'm just a naive country boy but when has anything ever been fair when comes to foreign relations.this is an old saying, "He/She that has the might determines what is right."

Would Iran be a problem is the US wasn't in league with Israel? Would the US be the target of the majority of Arab terrorists is it was not allied with Israel? There are a lot of questions that seem to make the allegiance with Israel seem pointless. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to get elected to office if you take this point of view as the Israeli lobby has IMMENSE power within the US...

Of course they would still be the target. The israeli/palestine issue is simply a scapegoat for Islamic fundamentalist to rally around to distract their opponents and poverty stricken peers from the real issues facing them. US complicity with Saudi Arabia, as well as their involvement in other mid eastern affairs like the first gulf war have a lot to do with arab hatred.

Also, for an article from an unabashed non-zionist about the true strength (or lack thereof) of the israel lobby, read this by noted intellectual christopher hitchens.

http://www.slate.com/id/2138741/

Another thing to remember is that this is 30 years after the fact. I'm too lazy to google it, but one can bet there was some controversy regarding the first news breaking of Israel's weaponry.

Another interesting point - during it's first 20 years of existence, pre-67, Israel's best foreign advocates were France and Czechoslovakia acting as a proxy for the soviets, not the US, which actually had a weapons embargo on Israel during the 60's.

the title of this thread is whether or not israel should be held to the same standard as iran..

those who answer in the negative already have their preconceived ideas as to why israeli life is more sacred than iranian, palestinian, or anyone else's in that part of the world..

and if one would answer "yes", what difference does it make? not like it would ever happen.. those who have followd and are aware of the racism and bigotry of zionism should know by now that standards of nuclear use are one of the many different issues that are twisted in the public eye to extract recognition for israel..

that leaves people who may be in doubt or on the fence.. like the gentleman above suggested, the standard of nuclear use should stretch beyond the conflict between israel and iran and apply to all nations.. its not like a fallout, radiation, or a nuclear cloud would recognize borders.. why should we?

peace

IF IT WASN'T FOR ISRAEL I THINK THERE WOULD BE MORE PEACE IN THE WORLD. ISRAEL HAS NUKES AS WE ALL KNOW. WHY SHOULD IRAN NOT BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF FROM ISRAEL. I KNOW THE PALESTINIANS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME DEFENSE TO DEFEND ITSELF FROM ISRAEL. ISRAEL HAS BEEN SLOWLY TRYING TO JUST ELIMINATE PALESTINE IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE. SOMEONE HAS TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THESE PREDATORS. THE AMERICAN POLITICIANS LET ISRAEL BUY THE OIL REFINERIES AND IF YOU PUT IT TOGETHER WITH DUMB YA AND HIS CLAN IT MAKES YOU WONDER. THE ARABS HAVE THE OIL, THE JEWS REFINE IT AND THE DUMB YA'S SELL IT SO IT IS NO WONDER DUMB YA IS OVER IN ISRAEL WITH HIS CO-HORTS IN CRIME. DOES ANYONE WONDER WHY GASOLINE PRICES HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ROOF. WITH THE JEWS DOING THE REFINING AND THE BUSHIES DOING THE SELLING. WE ARE TALKING SOME VERY GREEDY PEOPLE HERE. IT'S IN BUSH'S INTREST TO DEFEND HIS PARTNERS THUS AMERICA (I SHOULD SAY HIS SIDE OF AMERICA) PAYS THE PRICE FOR THE BUSH'S AND THE JEWS GREED AND NEED TO KEEP THE NUKES SECRET.
IT'S TO BAD WE DON'T JUDGE EVERY COUNTRY EQUALLY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. ISRAEL SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR MANY MORE THINGS BESIDES IT'S NUKES. THE AMOUNT OF PALESTINIAN LAND THEY HAVE TAKEN AND THE WORST PART OF ALL IS THE AMOUNT OF INNOCENT PALESTINIANS THEY HAVE KILLED IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY OR DEFENDING WHAT THEY HAVE TAKEN FROM THE PALESTINIANS. THE LAST TIME I LOOKED A PERSON WAS NOT HELD AS A TERRORIST FOR TRYING TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM SOMEONE STEALING THIER LAND OR HOME. I THINK THE FACTS BEAR THIS OUT. SOMEONE MUST REIN ISRAEL AND I CAN'T BLAME OTHER NATIONS TO BE UPSET WITH AMERICA FOR STANDING BEHIND THIS VERY VIOLENT NATION. THEY CALL THEM TERRORISTS THIER PEOPLE CALL THEM MARTYERS. I GUESS IT DEPENDS WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU ARE ON.