McCain video: still against gay marriage

Didn't McCain just support the opponents of the ban on same-sex marriage a little while ago? Jeez. He's kind of all over the place with his opinion on the subject.

I know a lot of people think that marriage should be limited to being between a man & a woman. This stance is based primarily on religious beliefs. And I would respect that stance completely if marriage was in fact solely a religious ceremony.

The problem is that marriage is NOT a religious ritual it has been elevated to the level of a "contract" so to speak with the state that **guarantees** the partners in that marriage certain rights, privileges and obligations that CANNOT be obtained or contracted for in any other way. So to deny a group of people the right to participate in that "contract" based on religion in a country where "church" and "state" are supposed to be separate does not make sense and would seem to be an actuality a violation of the very spirit of our constitution.

Some people have tried to address this issue as McCain has by saying well let's have contracts...but you cannot contract for many of the rights given to married couples...Others have gone further and introduced "civil unions" that purport to give gays the same rights as marriage does for heterosexual couples...This is a great FIRST STEP. It does at least recognize the fact that marriage is in fact at this point a state contract.

However, it does not go far enough...why? Ever hear of Brown vs. The Board of Education? In that case the Supreme Court ruled that separate but equal is inherently unequal. Because without fail one is going to be treated as less than the other. And already we are seeing that take place in states that have established some form of Civil Union or Domestic Partnership Legislation. They are not treated the same as or ultimately given the full spectrum of rights afforded to married couples. And Bill Clinton's "Marriage Protection Act" (Which Hillary does NOT intend to remove by the way), just makes it worse as it allows the federal government and individual states to disregard these unions and partnerships completely in a flagrant violation of the equal protection clause of our constitution.

I truly believe the California courts hit the nail on the head in giving their ruling that the ONLY way to resolve the issue permanently is to either:

a) Give gays the right to marry using the word marriage or

b) Give the ceremony known as marriage with the accompanying rights, privileges and obligations a different name and allow everyone gay & straight to participate.

This way marriage can retun to its roots as a religious ceremony, with NO STATE/GOVERNMENT RIGHTS attached to it. And the church can do whatever they want and everybody doesn't have to be affected by it.

Anyway, that's my two cents on it...I'd love to hear other people's...

PamHU3X

p.s. Please excuse my spelling : )

I agree with Pam 100%. I am a lesbian who is not religious at all. I never believed in marriage because what it stands for and how socially accepted it is for Heterosexuals. But now, since this whole thing is going on, I want it legalized where gay couples can do the same. I have been with my partner for almost 4 years now and I if it is possible, I would want to marry her one day only so that I can protect her even if I pass away.

People do not realize this, but gay couples today, we have no rights when their partners pass away. It is the families that take over EVERYTHING and most of us cannot afford a decent Trust that will not allow their families to do this. IT is ridiculous. This is why I would want marriage to be legalized so that gays can marry with the same privileges as Heterosexuals.

I think they should heavily tax married people and see how many people want to get married then.

If it's only about love then homosexuals will still want to get married even if they got heavily taxed.

one shouldn't want to get married based on money reasons....that totally defeats the purpose of marriage.

And if one knows the legal system they can draft papers that would have the legal heir to any and every possession should their partner die.

I don't see people who want to get married as in wanting to get married because of love. This idea of wanting to marry seems solely based on wanting legal rights afforded to marry couples and nothing to do with love. Ellen states that she loves her partner and one can do that without getting married...one can do that the rest of their lives without getting married.

So the only reason one would want to get married if they were not religious is to get the tax benefits. it has nothing to do with the actual title.

Ellen does not get it.

All she has to do is marry a man and she can get married. No one is stopping her.

It is her own issue

In American Law, certain conditions of marriage have always been nonnegotiable.

A marriage joins (a) two people (b) of the opposite sex
(c) who are not close relatives.

I'm kinda surprised that John McCain went on Ellen's show. I guess with all eyes on Obama and Clinton, McCain will do anything to get noticed.

Your response does not make sense to me. Maybe you can explain.

Why do you think heterosexuals get married? It is NOT just for love. They too can love without the ceremony. And it is NOT because they are all religious...

They get married so their union can be recognized and they will be able to obtain the benefits and privileges that go with it.

Despite what many people believe...many, many of the rights provided to married couples recieve AUTOMATICALLY without the extra expense of hiring attorneys or trying to figure out ways to create binding contracts CANNOT BE CONTRACTED FOR or obtained in any other way than marriage.

I know this for a fact.

In addition, many people cannot afford an attorney to to obtain the types of contracts and trusts that can be created for these purposes, (and shouldn't have too since it is FREE and AUTOMATIC for married couples).

Gays are not asking for anything heterosexuals don't already get. So What exactly is your point? That no one should get married? Or that gays shouldn't want equal rights?

I think that married couples should be taxed. I don't believe in marriage like I have mentioned before, Jammer. I understand what you are trying to say. My partner and I both do not believe in what "marriage" stands for in toda's society. I just don't think it's fair that we are excluded from the same rights heterosexuals are given. Trust me, if Marriage was solely for religious purpose, I would not marry. But, since the State cannot distinguish marriage and "domestic" partnership or whatever you want to call it... and it is still not fair, I don't agree with it and I would want marriage to be legalized for Homosexuals as well.

Divorce rates are high....and adding homosexuals to the mix will not even it out it will only go higher.

The only time I've ever seen a physical confrontation on the news on a freeway in the middle of rush hour was when two men who were dating....were fighting. It was called a domestic dispute.

That's not to say that (I hate saying sexual orientation as a means to differentiate people...it's so lame) "straight" couples don't have such disputes, it's to state that the divorce rate will only get worse because of the add on.

Worse than straight people are homosexuals in their switching partners. I say that because of my observations of certain ones who can't stick with one person longer than a semester or a whole school year.

Marriage has been trashed before the idea that a man and man or a woman and woman should get married. It's only now worse because it now makes it a joke.

Why would ANYONE want to get married other than to have benefits that come with the marriage? Is it really love? I think not...this goes for straight couples as well.

If homosexuals were smart they'd go about this a different way. Underhanded way. Create a new word....create a the same laws and tie the knot together and bind the laws with the word and have their own idea of marriage.

I see them wanting marriage to ruin it. It's like when a big brother wants something and the little brother won't give it over and be "fair and equal" so the big brother slaps the ice cream out of his brother's hand and not only does neither get any...he gets to laugh as the little boy is sadden by the ruin of his tasty ice cream.

Marriage has been between a man and a woman of all colors for thousands of years and now a group that has been around a long time...could it be a thousand too?....wants to now have access to it when they never really wanted it prior?

it's not like slavery. Slaves always have wanted to be free. There's no documentation that homosexuals always wanted to get married....until the last 15 years or so...or more...way more...I'm not sure. =P

And why? Because they're brother has it and now they want it. Not because they can handle it better but because they want to ruin it for everyone. They are not stupid. Homosexuals know exactly what will happen should they get what they want...backlash...all this build up to being treated equal could very well fall because they just have to have everything now, now, now.

This is why it disgusts me when people compare their plight with blacks. It's not the same. Blacks understood what they were up against. Homosexuals take advantage of history before them and shove it in people's face and whine and say look at this --- treat us better. It doesn't work that way. You don't shove it in people's faces knowing how uncomfortable they are with it and expect them to flip just because you say so.

If homosexuals were smart they would create a new way of getting married that fits them. That benefits them. That takes the same rights and places it under a different name. Whatever name they want. Is this treating them different? No. It's tricking those people that have a problem with them using Marriage...the TITLE...nothing else.

Homosexuals are all about the love...right? Then they should be loving and accepting, as they want others to be of them, of how they are infiltrating something that is special to so many. Instead of going on the route of OMG they are offend and are homophobic...they should sit and think a moment. Why upset people? Because you can and you should be able to to get what you want? That's selfish.

You know why Martian Luther King Jr. Worked? He did not act like those who were oppressing him. He thought outside the box and he got what it was he wanted. There are 50 states and some are liking gay marriage and others hate it. You can't get them all by going full force out in the open to gain marriage. You could get it by going the back way (easy for y'all...ooh a joke....laugh it was funny... =P ) and sneaking up on them by getting the same thing...but under a different name. Subversive. This will allow come to be and y'all get what you want. I think going after a word that is held dear to people and telling them to get over it...is a stupid way of going about it.

omordn-

You do not believe in Marriage but you want it. !!!

Between the Islamist terrorists and the Gay activists this country is threaten from outside and from inside

?.... Hahahaha.

You can tell McCain was a little nervous about offending her with his "respectful disagreement" because he doesn't look her in the eyes much during his answer! Body language says all.

I happen to think that by not allowing gay marrige, it violates the constitutional right to freedom of religeon. Maybe McCain and all of his rightous followers don't believe that God recognizes a marriage between same sex couples, but what about the religeous sects that DO believe that the union of two people is always regognized in the eyes of God?

It's like saying one person's religeous beliefs are not valid compared to another, has that been brought to the table yet?

J_Jammer

You have a lot of your "facts" not quite right. But I understand your point. Marriage the word and the ritual started as a religious ceremony by the church to bless a union between a male and female member of their church.

And if it had been left at that, none of this would be an issue.

Unfortunately, At this point and time marriage really has been taken totally out of the context of religion by the government and made into a contract with the state.

For many many people, marriage represents a means of making a permanent & public committment to the person they love. It is also provides them with right, privileges and responsibilies to that person through their contract with the state that otherwise wouldn't exist.

For a long time gays did not want to have any part of this ritual primarily because it was seen as a religious ritual that had nothing to do with them or their life.

But times change...not because gays "suddenly" wanted something that "their older brother had" It changed because there was realization that the inability to marry was at the core of their inability to achieve recognition and equality for their relationships.

As far as giving it other names that has been tried over and over again with Domestic Partnerships, Civil Unions, Holy Unions, Life Partnerships...it all gets squashed and attacked and none of t gives the same rights as marriage.

I think the best answer is one given by the California Court, Give marriage a different name that everyone can use. And let marriage go back to being a religious ceremony without all the attached rights and benefits.

What the court said was stupid and only appeals to those that would agree to agree without thinking things through.

Animosity is for the word not for anything else. If homosexuals are as loving as they love to say...then they would change tactics and go about this smarter.

Not all battles have been won by going head on. Sometimes they had to sneak to win.

Marriage is already ruined and now I think it's a joke. It's being treated horrible and abused and it's annoying and no on cares because they just want to get theirs.

Selfishness isn't a shocker.

This just demonstrates the hypocracy of our so-called political leaders. We are not getting our tax dollars worth from the country management, all we get are plattitudes and spin-meistering. I dont care if its republicans or democrats, what i want is a change to a system that respects others, and doesnt take 18 months to get into office. Europe gives their politicians just a few weeks to state their case for election, and they waste little money doing so, as opposed to the long drawn out wasteful system in the US, which just now has nobody really running the country, they're just waiting for the next guy or gal to get elected.

Ellen equates the suffering of slavery to being gay without the right to marriage......and her fans are clapping !!!

Mc Cain should have responded by asking her if she would like to spend the same length of time as a slave as he was a prisoner of war ?.....and meet again

It was so embarassing !!!!!!

Why should anyone care what someone does with their life! If you want to be gay, straight, bisexual, trisexual, who the fuck cares. Maybe the government should stay the hell out of peoples personal lives. Banning or allowing gay marriage is not going to stop people from being gay. Who the fuck is anyone to tell another person who they can and cannot love or choose to spend the rest of theirs lives with!

Obamination
Your name says it all! It is 2008, your backward ass thinking and hate of everything different is going to be your down fall.
Like Chris Rock says: "You hate the gays, your going to have a gay son!1"

Abomination,
Your name says it all! This is 2008, your backward ass thinking and hate of all thing different is going to be your downfall.
Like Chris Rock says: "You hate gays, your son is going to be gay."

And what the fuck does being a POW have to do with same sex marrige. She was talking about human rights.

What a stupid thing to make an issue of. We are supposed to be the country of the free, not the judged.

To deprive innocent Iraqi's of life, and to deprive two people the opportunity to join in holly matrimony - same difference. It's an idiot attempting to impose their mental deficiencies on others. It's not their place.

What I find funny is why McCain would even bother to go on her show...

He knows that's not his audience, and we all know he isn't changing any of their minds anytime soon.

Looks like someone is getting desperate.

Remember that crazy concept called The Separation Between Church and State? Good. Make sure to tell your grandkids about it as it vanishes into history.
This topic is what it's all about.

McCain is soooo old in comparison to the other candidates.

He's not scared of anything, that's for sure. They will never vote for you if you don't ask them to, just ask the people of Kentucky about Obama.

We are all equal...period. NO matter what. It's such a simple concept, why can't people grasp it. He didn't even have an explanantion...just a cop out. "I believe this just because I believe it." I hate when people have no logic to back up their claims. Scary that religion is usually the only reason. And in that case, seperation of Church and State and therefore anyone can get married. Geez.

The Government has no right or authority to interfere with religion.

i am so tired, so so tired of people using the loving a dog arguement.
do you realize how ignorant that sounds?

Obamanation, you seem to be quite stuck in the past considering you're voting for the "Progressive" candidate.

The point that Ellen is making is that we are still not giving the same rights to all people. Yes, we have come a very long way from the atrocious days of slavery, but we still have a long way to go when it comes to recognizing that we are all people, and should all have the same rights.

Someday we are going to look back at the gay rights movement the same way we look at the civil rights movement."What the hell were people thinking?"

To those who are so vehemently against gay marriage...


- Marriage is not a Christian institution.
Get over it.

- A relationship between two consenting adults is not even on the same plane of thought as bestiality, and whoever attempts to connect the two is playing the part of a blatant idiot for the sake of their agenda.

- Our government is/ should be secular.
The 1st Amendment includes the distinct separation of church and state.
If you're such patriotic Americans, perhaps you should study the basic tenants of the constitution.

Believe what you want religiously, but keep it out of the damned government.

- Jesus himself said religion should never be used to rule people, and should never become a form of government.
He also told you not to judge.
Pretty much all the negative assumptions you people have about homosexuality comes from various interpretations of the Old Testament, and hey-guess-what?
Jesus told you not to worry about that book anymore.
It's been 2000 years since he said that.
Perhaps you should start listening to him.

After all, if we were still following the OT to the literal word, women would be out camping in the wilderness while on their periods, men would never shave, and anyone eating bacon would be going straight to hell.
Among other things.

If you really want to know what the OT is saying, ask a well-read Jewish person, since it is their book, not yours.

__


These are points that you people (religious folks against gay marriage and homosexuality in general) are constantly avoiding.
(Yes, that was a generalized blanket statement - sucks, doesn't it?)

If you read up on some history, you'll find that, in terms of Christianity, most of the Rules that the church rams down your throats were put into place by the Catholic church of the Dark Ages, in order to appeal to and control masses of superstitious peasants and barbarians only a generation or two removed from scalp-hunting Germanic pagans.
(Because of this, today's version of Christianity has a lot in common with Germanic paganism...including the concept of Hel. With one "l.")

How about it, ya'll?



[/rant]

Frankly hun, your mistaken...





please send me the actual scriptures where everything you just said came from?





i would be delighted to entertain your ignorance.

I studied those scriptures when I was a regular church-goer, years ago.
I'll find them, and post them.

As for the archaic list of abominations, see Leviticus.

But that was just one of the points I made, and by far the least relevant.

Sorry, this is sore subject for me.

Simplest one =

"Then give to the emperor the things that are the emperor's, and to God the things that are God's."
(Luke 20:25)


And pretty much everything you posted on the "republican side" was thinly veiled bigotry, based on broad assumptions and misinformation.

They mostly equate homosexuals with disease and pedophilia, which comes from their religiously-based assumption that homosexuality is of the Devil.
They are against something that doesn't even affect them.
It all trickles down to their nurtured and ignorant interpretations the bible, and that has no place in politics. That is how the peaceful, revolutionary message of Jesus was warped into things like the Spanish Inquisition.