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We could have colonized Mars with the money we spent on the Iraq war


  3. lwhi
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"Charlie Stross is hosting an open conversation on other things we could have bought with the money wasted in Iraq: for example, we could have sent a colony of over 500 astronauts to Mars, provided modern nuclear power to the USA and shut down its coal plants, build modern cities for 600,000,000 Chinese people to live in, and so on:

For $6Tn we could buy a lot of juice — a quarter of our global civilization's energy budget would go carbon-neutral at a stroke. (Yes, we just solved our carbon dioxide emissions problem by switching to a nuclear economy.) This probably isn't the ideal way of dealing with our environmental problems, and it's a naive treatment of the costs (has anyone done a proper treatment of the economic implications of shifting the planet over to a nuclear economy, say to the same extent as France?) but it's thought-provoking.

Finally, there's all the other little stuff we could solve by pointing $513Bn at it, never mind $6000Bn. Eliminating childhood diseases in South-East Asia? Piffle — Bill and Melinda Gates are trying to do that out of their pocket lint. Build first-world grade housing in shiny new cities for 600 million Chinese peasants, nearly a tenth of the planetary population? Yes, this budget will cover that. What else?

Yes, I'm asking you: what would you do with the cost of the Iraq war (take your pick: $513Bn or $6000Bn) in your budget? Colonise Mars? Solve our carbon emission problem and fix global warming? House half a billion people? Or something else ...?

(And what isn't going to happen now, because we pissed it all away on the desert sands?) "
lwhi

57 responses // We could have colonized Mars with the money we spent on the Iraq war

  • Nope, sorry, this doesn't compute:)

    Now, if you want to say we could have put a man on Mars then you are right, but colonization? Dude, where is your head?

    Just to get there is a problem because most of the spacecraft we have sent to land never make it!

    Second, we haven't even built the hardware yet not to mention that we don't even know how we are going to keep folks from going nuts cooped up for months and months..not to forget that we need to put a real bathroom with a shower on this craft, there's one on the station now, but not on the shuttle.

    Lots of problems need to be worked out.

    And you have to live on Mars too!

    Not to forget how long we will stay..
    Remember, it's a long way there and a long, long way back!

    No, I doubt if we could go today but we certainly will be able to go 10 years plus...
    PatrickEdwardMurray
  • Its always to late unfortunately to do the right things...if the money were spent on housing the homeless..curing the sick ..encouraging life instead of beating people over the head about minutae of problems the whole world would be a better place..don't we all wish this would happen.But at the end of the day the government is elected to be in control of all that change that could and should happen..are you going to make a difference with your vote..this time around?
    mcwally
  • ...but then, where would the money for fighting Mars' terrorists come from?
    mako2424
  • For starters, the Iraq War is paying for itself, they told us that at the beginning. Just look at how cheap gas is right now.

    Secondly, if we had gone to Mars, Saddam would have just conspired with al Qaeda (who despised each other; you figure it out) to launch all their weapons of mass destruction at Mars and we'd have the Globals War on Terror, which just wouldn't work because my spellcheck says "globals" isn't a word.

    Lastly, what would we do without all the pretty flowers the Iraqis gave us for liberating them.
    kafkaesque
  • http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
    I think the thing that I found most remarkable about this story, was that the Iraq war may have cost 6 trillion dollars. This is over 1714 times the proposed NASA budget for manned space travel - but yes, the colonisation of Mars still seems like a tall order (and not necessarily that useful).

    Maybe the conversation is a little futile, and what's done is done - but I think it's important to realise that there are always alternatives. I think it's useful to talk about what those alternatives could be.

    @karkaesque:

    Re. the flowers... we wouldn't have had to dispose of them... or the 1,213,716 Iraqis killed since occupation (according to http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html).

    But yes, I can see how flippancy sometimes seems like the only plausible response.
    lwhi
  • How about just paying off all of the developing world's debts?
    primusluta
  • $6Tn ??????? And I stop and think when I want to make a purchase of over $100.
    neokn
  • I would rather fight a country that used biological weapons against helpless Kurds than populate an uninhabitable planet. Iraq is the battle lines for of a terroristic group that might change the location of their attack not their reasoning.
    atommccree
  • Look at the cost of life as well. Seven astronauts died during the reentry of the Space Shuttle Columbia, and the space program was immediately slammed. On the other hand over 4,000 soldiers have been killed without much of an uproar.
    VigorousAlloy
  • I bet one of bushes cronies already has a contract to explore Mars for oil!
    Jtonio4823
  • To hell with colonizing Mars. We need to be taking that money and cleaning up the mess we've made here on Earth. That's just like a human to fuck something up and move to the next big thing to fuck up.. *sigh* We're not as smart as we think we are.
    alpha_nova
  • watch this comment being used here, here, here, here and here
    Can we fix the problems on earth first? Also, why do we need to colonize Mars? Why do we love colonizing so much? Most of the current political crisis in the world is a result of colonizing.
    merasyad
  • Yeah, but who would want to colonize Mars? That place is a shithole. What we should have done is save up a little more and start a new society under the sea with mermaids and mermans. That would have been cool.
    75thDeadMan
  • Great, great comments in this thread!

    Yes forget about colonizing Mars, and for sure.... what is done is done.... but what a shame! Isn't it time that we stop and think and start learning about mistakes from our pasts?
    Veritasmundi
  • Any amount of money diverted from the war to NASA would have been beneficial to this world. I’ve said this a million times since joining current but I guess I have to say it again.

    Ecofreaks stop saying we need to focus on “cleaning up our mess” whenever NASA is discussed. Do your homework. Go to NASA.gov and take a look at what NASA is doing
    Ricky84
  • Take note that the qualifier "could have" is used.
    handshakeheartbreak
  • The point that an insane amount of money has been needlessly pissed away shouldn't be lost in debate.
    huntre
  • I definitely would have replaced coal energy, and then used the left over money to provide treatment for all the people whose water supplies have been polluted by so-called clean coal. Oh, and then I'd make sure their water supplies were cleaned. And provide them with clean water until said supplies were cleaned. And then, just for good measure, I'd make sure that the entire population had health care, so that if anyone or their families were ever effected by pollution again, they would be able to receive immediate treatment, not hypothetical benevolent dictator money magically pulled from the black hole that is Iraq.
    St_Alia_10191
  • We could have fed the world with the money we spent on the Iraq war.
    thehermit
  • Why would bush want to do something constructive like this, when he could instead make his daddy happy by finishing his fight.
    LukesAlive
  • Bush could have built a Death Star for himself with the yet to be investigated funds which have disappeared so far - i'm not too sure he hasn't already , and missions to Mars are just diversions - i bet he's gonna just hop on a shuttle , retreat to his Death Star , and then destroy us .
    malathion
  • Malathion, I believe Reagan already started the death star. He's probably just retrofitting the old one right now.
    thehermit
  • Maybe we shouldn't be looking at it as "we could have colonized Mars" but rather as "maybe we still can do something for our post-Sept 11 veterans" in the form of a present-day GI Bill.

    In that scenario, the Senate overwhelmingly voted FOR a present-day GI Bill just last week that would allow post Sept. 11 vets a chance at returning to normalcy and reintegrating back into society. But interestingly enough, funding this category of vets to go to a four year college or technical institution would cost us just a week of what we spend in Iraq. Given that, President Bush is still threatening to veto the bill because he says it's 'too expensive.'

    So in this war, is it safe to say that our President (and Repub. candidate John McCain now, too, apparently) really doesn't care much for his troops unless they dedicate their entire lives to fighting his battles?

    There seems to be more at stake here than having missed an opportunity to colonize Mars.
    ashabpatel
  • Well, if we would all stop waging wars with each other we could use that money to do amazing things like this and benefit all mankind. But, DEFINITELY easier said than done.....

    Hopin the best for this article.
    WatchingCurrentTV
  • So much money. I cant believe this country has just sat ideally by as this has happened. education, scientific research, economic help....
    sagewho
  • THAT'S MY TAX MONEY, AND YOURS TOO!!! Oh it just makes me so mad, arrrrgh! I voted, I signed petitions, I talked to people, I'm at the point where I seriously think if things don't start to change after this election I'm gonna be looking to have the term "ex-patriot" after my name in the near future...

    We should all be like Thoreau and not pay taxes and sit in jail. Not really, I'm just pissed.
    Kati_kat
  • porn and booze
    Bravura
  • We wouldn't need to colonize elsewhere if it wasn't for war.

    (and famine, and global warming, and tornados, hurricanes, and earthquakes, and you get the point)
    ipodrulz
  • Should've, could've, would've!
    dkl165
  • I agree, it's a lot of money that's floated down the river, gone under the bridge...pissed away because of someone's selfish hidden agenda...

    This whole affair should serve as an example of what should never be allowed to happen again...ever...for the rest of eternity...

    We live on a planet that is a virtual paradise, but we can't seem to get our priorities straight...apathy among the masses is much to blame for this...too many generations of not caring what goes on...up on capitol hill...too much lack of accoutability...

    We need a major problem solver in the whitehouse, not a joke...yesterday already...
    PlatoTacius
  • It looks to be that this is a prime example of the value of agression - the more we are invoked by fear and choose to do harm in reaction to it, the more regret we will feel for it in the future. If anything, we should've spent our time and effort in preparing and bettering ourselves so that we may both better protect ourselves from future attacks and make wiser choises when it comes to helping those souls in the Middle East.
    Ola_McGee
  • The money's gone now, nothing we can do about that one. All we can do is stop the war so no more money is used.
    Greg_Bunker
  • woah woah Mako2424, we've all seen signs, we obviously just need a bottle of evian and we're completely secure. so do you think they'll have $69 dollar sales for round trip?
    lrae87
  • Colonize Mars? We don't take care of the planet we already have, there is no reason we should get another one. This is parenting 101.
    jpoRS
  • And how many lives could have been saved by not going war????????

    money, man, it's all back into US economy, maybe not very well spread but its back
    alexandrek
  • Well if we did colonize Mars I would send all of the worlds prisoners there, it could be our modern day Australia.

    Personally I would have paid off our down the national debt, secured social security, paid for a national healthcare system and funded the building of more schools.
    observer2121
  • Oh my god you Ecofreaks drive me crazy. Stop saying we need to stop worrying about space so we can fix our own planet. Without the space program no one would be talking about climate change or global warming.

    I pulled this off of the Phoenix Mars mission homepage. For the love of whatever you consider holy please check it out before you rant about global warming. NASA is leading the argument for climate change. Our exploration of Mars is absolutely connected to our need to understand our own problems.

    http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/mars171.php#1


    When you are done with that go to NASA.gov and have a look. I cannot stress this enough. IF YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT NASA IS DOING, DON’T COMMENT ABOUT IT! God dammit, you see that? That’s the only time I’ve ever felt the need to use caps. I feel so dirty right now but I had to do it.

    Support NASA they are looking out for us and by us I mean the world. NASA is the scientific head of the green movement. When you speak out against NASA you are shooting your cause in the face.
    Ricky84
  • These are NASA papers about human caused climate change. I took them straight off the NASA.gov site. I didn’t have to search for them. They were presented on the first page of the earth section. 5/7 of the articles listed on this page dealt with climate change.

    http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/HQ_08127_Natur...

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solar_v...

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/ostm-20080430...

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/08-048_arctas...

    http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/HQ_08132_OSTM-...
    Ricky84
  • I do agree that we wouldn't have half the knowledge about our planet's workings and situation if it weren't for NASA. Plus, who would want to put a halt to all the fascinating things we are learning about our universe, for any reason?
    Sara_Airey