Ralph Mouth

So I guess comprehensive health care, ending corporate corruption, improving our standing in the global community, improved lives for all (not just the lucky few), and true equality are now considered "ridiculous rhetoric".

Like I've said before, we in this country deserve all the bullshit and corruption that exists in this country. Here we have someone who's worked his whole adult life to end those social ills, and people call him crazy for thinking more people would be in favor of that.

Sad, sad, sad. All you people who cling so tightly to the two party system and the corrupt government they support, hopefully will be the first to experience the negative effects of voting blindly. You all deserve it the most.

P.S.
Look at his (Nader's) stance on the issues and try to refute and argue why his intended policies wouldn't work or don't make sense. Instead of just using the 2000 election and Obama's mantra of "Hope" to say Nader's "spoiling" things. Geez, people, wake up.

Get me the gun n' the shells i gotta take old man Nader out, hes off his rocker.

If that offends someone I'm sorry however I think It's funny as hell. Nader was a good guy, still is, however he's ruining himself now.

EGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A chance? So, now I am supposed to vote for the person with the best "chance" of winning, not the best person for the job.

Well, it seems ("it seems" is a phrase Obamaheads love to use because you don't need facts to prove or disprove whatever they are talking about), you like to settle for the candidate with the best chance of winning, but that doesn't mean you are for change, it just means you do what everyone else is doing. Way to make change, just leave things the way they are.

And Nader isn't racist, he's probably one of the only people that knows you don't have to single out one race as a way to prove your are for equality. He believes all people are equal and the faster we get away from classifying people as particular races or saying they need special laws, rather than making sure laws are applied to all fairly and equally, we will continue to deal with poor race relations in the US.

Ego and standing firm in what you believe in are two very different things, just as supporting the status quo and pretending to be for change is very different from voting for the person who would implement policies that would make true change a reality.

Like I've said before none of you Obama supporters will ever use facts to support your claims, just throw racist remarks around, and base your assertions of other candidates on innuendo based on frivolous assumptions.

I think Nader forgot only black people are allowed to make statements about other black people. Or at least that is what "it seems" Eldamon is saying.

Mafioso,

You are usually more intelligent than this and Ralph USED to be more intelligent than he's coming off. So he's either suffered a stroke or lack of sleep as one candidate put it or he's simply trying to stir the pot by calling the kettle black.

How exactly does he expect Sen. Obama to speak and why? Why is there an expectation from Nader of how any candidate should speak, in his opinion. Is he channeling Emily Post or Websters suddenly?

Try as you will to make this more or less of this than it truly is, when all is said and done it is what it is - a cheap political ploy from a fallen pathetic man trying desperately to be heard.

What I'm ACTUALLY saying is your boy is tired and needs to sit down.

What is keeping it real? So to keep it real you have to talk a certain way? Everyday I am more and more offended by the way people are picking apart the way Obama speaks and his confidence as a MAN, not just a Black man. If people aren't complaining that he's arrogant then he's trying to act White. How about the issues? Let him be. Can he just be 1 good a product of what this country is "suppose" to be, a man who came from nothing to become something big. Or would you people rather he be like the average Black man this country produces, uneducated, deadbeat dad with a rap sheet a mile long and no real hope in their hearts.

Look if you guys were using facts, being objective, and talking about things relevant to the issues that are affecting the poor, the disadvantaged, and the majority of American people for that fact, then maybe your stance would make some sense to me. None of you have.

He (Nader) wasn't even saying anything you are accusing him of. I am intelligent, apparently the only intelligent person on this thread, because no one has used anything relevant to the election to dispute my stance on supporting Nader, which is why I won't be changing my mind anytime soon. There's no good reason for me to change my mind.

And don't tell me I shouldn't vote for Nader because he won't win, because in my opinion if anyone other than Nader is president, none of us win, or at least none of the people that are most negatively affected by this broken and corrupt system that's currently in place.

Maf,
Whom you choose vote for is clearly up to you and I will admit as I alluded to previously, back in his day Nader had something to say. Unfortunately his day has passed and he's become a perennial candidate with diminishing returns.

You want to turn this into a debate over the issues and ignore the preposterous blunder Nader made in a feeble attempt to get some traction in his sad little campaign. If he meant what he said he's racist at best. If he misspoke he's incompetent and needs to retire. That's the point at hand in this thread. Try wrapping some of your massive intellect around that instead of obvious obfuscation.

He didn't even say what you said he did... the link is right in front of your face. Don't just copy and paste a link without reading the whole story or knowing all the details. You are the one accusing Nader of something that has no merit or even anything to remotely back your claim up.

If anything you are the one that sounds somewhat like a racist for assuming that because Nader is white and said something about a black man that wasn't favorable you can spin it into a racist comment.

P.S.
I was told to edit this and remove a portion, but instead I chose to reword it to say what I meant since there was some confusion. I stand by my point and refuse to remove any part of my point. I wasn't calling Eldamon a racist, I was stating her comment could easily be seen as racist if taken out of context as she did with Nader's.

And it's ironic you use the word "obfuscation", since you are the one using a statement out of context to make your point.

Wrap your "intellect" around a dictionary and look up the word "semantics".

I've not only read the article from the link presented her but three other articles as well AND seen it on two separate news programs. Oddly all contain many quotes including the following;

"Obama "wants to talk white," and "show that he's not at politically threatening African-American politician."

What is talking white and how does it relate to Sen. Obama manor of speech? And what relevance does it have on the current campaign?

wow.. look at this..look at him..what is he..he want to be OBAMA...he's another racistass cracka hatin on a black man succeedin above and beyong what this WHOLE WORLD don't want to happen for the BLACK RACE as a whole to feel like we are human with capablity to do great...since MR OBAMA wont... here go.. fuck u bitch ass racist fagget..is that good enough pussy! go suck a dick hater!

My rant is triggered by the "talk white" comment, regardless if Nader or any other person said it. The average kid who makes good grades and stays out of trouble gets teased, they're not "cool". But Black kids who do this are told they're trying to be White, normally by thier coo friends. Some give up and end up a statistic, some get over it and move on to the American Dream. Then to have a man with such influence make such a blunder, what a way knock down the poor black kid who finally thought he was accepted.

I don't have the power to be a racist. As an Africian American, I don't have the power to exclude, restrict or influence my preference based on race. I could try, but...
Nothing is equal. Blacks only make up approx 13% of the population vs 81% Whites, the numbers may be close but the ratio could never compare. College vs. prision: the ratio for black males is 2.6 to one, for white males the ratio is 28 to one. A black man is 7.4 times more likely than a white male to be behind bars. Blacks are two times more likely to fall below poverty and 3 times more likely to end up on welfare. Blacks earn less, live shorter lives and it's even worse in inner cities. So much negative for so few people. Yes, there's good and bad in all groups, that's why we keep screaming for true equality.

I could go on. As I said in the beginning, the rant is geared toward the derrogatory comment that continues to segregate. No one is saying that McCain's not acting old enough or not doing enough for the seniors.

Do you ever post about issues or is this crap all there is? And please, Huffington Post? Personally, after actually reading it instead of kneejerking to it because I am someone who doesn't play a racecard, I think what he is saying is that as an African American candidate, Obama is simply emulating the status quo politics he claims to be a change from.

And let's face it, he is. The day after he "secured" the nomination he went to AIPAC and spewed the same rhetoric his white status quo counterparts did. He lobbies for industries his white status quo counterparts do. He is now affiliating himself with the same white status quo advisors from twenty and up years ago. He is trying big time to appeal to whites across the board now rather than blacks because he feels he has that vote all sewn up and because Clinton is now out (and believe me, contrary to what some may think I don't miss her either after selling out.).

He is a typical pandering politician with no change in mind as far as I am concerned. He was endorsed by the party elders including Al Gore ( which I believe was done on his part as a formality) and the cream of the elitist crop, the Rockefellers... and yet, he claims to be "change?" He claims he will stand up for the average American, yet thinks spying on Americans is more important than standing up for their rights and not going along with this sham of a FISA bill?

And you know, I have met blacks who feel the same way Nader does... he doesn't speak for the issues in neighborhoods that create crime that would cause a black man to commit a crime or sell drugs thus causing him to leave his children.... no, he gets up in a church and preaches to black fathers to be better fathers...does he realize this system prohibits that at times for many in this country hard as they might try? He colors everything one color and doesn't seem to be able to see the reality is because they are in prison due to the society we have made basically from the same status quo BS Obama is now spewing.

Keeping it real to me means bringing yourself down from that Washington Dc ivory tower and talking TO people not AT them. Neither Obama or McCain seem to have that capacity, and that is why I am now leaning towards not voting at all. As George Carlin said, at least then I can't be blamed when one of them f^cks it up even more. As it is, climate change is only a BUZZ WORD to them now in the political forum and something else to use to bludgeon each other with instead of working together to solve it. Change? I think not.

I am totally FED UP with the two partied moneyed system in this country where in political campaigns this kind of BS is all we get as "discussion." Who knows...Perhaps Al Gore endorsed Obama to not be called a racist too? It seems that is the only accusation some can use for anyone actually commenting on policy and not giving anything less than ultimate blind allegiance. And if he is this wonderful change candidate he sure hasn't shown it in deed yet. So yes, I would say to both Obama and McCain, you don't have what it takes to keep it real. If either of them did, they wouldn't be representing the very parties that have f*cked this country up beyond recognition. I may not always agree with Nader and probably won't vote for him either, but sometimes he does make sense.

Jan,

I'll ask you the same question I asked (sorry - axed) Mafioso, hopefully with a more lucid response this time. What is talking "White"?

Granted in your trademark negative style you've made a valid point but as usual missed the actual point. Given your analysis is true enough it was the WAY he (Nader) went about it. In all your vitriolic rants about Sen. Obama or the two party system you've never directly insulted the man himself or any particular race or gender. Nader's statement in and of itself was offensive, poorly contrived and completely unnecessary. That's the point here or as Ralph would have it, that be where I'm comin' from...

Ralph, The Corvair is off the road. Thanks, now go home.

Look, if all you have to worry about is calling everyone who doesnt phrase something the way you want it a racist, have at it. I think I pretty much explained my viewpoint about it above. And I do not spew "vitriolic rants" I give opinions like everyone else. You just proved the point again about some Obama supporters on many of these sites. If it doesn't show blind allegiance or perfect praise, it is either racist or a vitriolic rant. So sorry, I won't be engaging you on this here anymore.

Please Explain Jan," What is talking white?"
And if you don't think race is an issue then your in DENIAL.

You do have "vitriolic rants", there negative, they aren't constructive, and there borderline manic

As my grandfather used to say "if you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all"*

Criticism is fine but it's useless when it isn't constructive.

didn't Nader just mean that in a White dominated society of mishaps in the past, he was dismayed that a man of color was catering to the same old standards of "Whitey" Eldamon... Nader is not a racist... He has been fighting for social justice all along... I'm surprised that you didn't get his meaning and were offended... To me, it's just like the Michelle Obama comment and "Really" blown out of context! I think it's his way of calling him out and asking Obama to really be a man of change and not go along with the status-quo...

Jan,
No one wants anyone to phrase anything in any particular manor, with the exception of Mr. Nader obviously. You tend to turn things around and consider all Obama supporter blind followers fooled by charm and guile. You should really go back and read some of your "opinions" and reconsider that lack of vitriol statement. You definitely have some seriously negative and STRONG opinions which you are more than entitled to express.

However, the question still stands - what is "talking white" and in what manor SHOULD Sen. Obama be talking?

You find yourself in an indefensible position don't you? What Nader was trying to say may or may not have been true but the WAY he said it made his and your point irrelevant. I can see why you'd feign indignation at this point, if you were unwilling to admit your error in judgment.

Trying to pigeon whole our dissent into either vitriol or racist paranoia won't work however. Hate has a way of bubbling to the surface no matter how you try and disguise it.

Current89 - My grandfather & grandmother also had a saying, "La zorra nunca se mira la cola". Figure out what that means yourself.

Eldamon, you are right, Nader and I are both racists.

And to put it simply, he (Nader) is saying that Obama is playing both sides.

If that's what he had said there would have been no issue. But, that not what he said is it? No one seems to be able to answer the initial question for some odd reason. I keep hearing what he meant or what he was trying to say - what he SAID is the topic at hand. No one called anyone a racist per se the debate is over his (Nader's) words.

So once again, what is "talking white"?

Mafioso: "Look if you guys were using facts, being objective, and talking about things relevant to the issues that are affecting the poor, the disadvantaged, and the majority of American people for that fact, then maybe your stance would make some sense to me. None of you have."

Oh yeah, 'cause Nader's comments against Mr. Obama (and lack thereof concerning Mr. McSame) ... if they have the effect of '00 ... yeah McSame will no doubt be standing up for the Americans you reference above.

And of course lets not forget about the Iranians.

We're not changing your mind, and you're sure as hell not changing ours.

He's not concerned with "McSame" because he believes that the American people wouldn't be stupid enough to vote for a Repub, but at the same time he wants to point out to Americans that Obama's actions don't back up his words.

My mind being made up is based on facts on the issues, yours being made up is based on ignorance (Like calling Nader racist, egotistical for standing up for what he believes, and claiming he ruined Gore's shot in '00).

If Nader knew Obama was advocating true change and his record, donations, and words matched that sentiment, I'm sure Nader would not be running. The fact the issues he is so passionate about are the issues ruining this country and ruining the lives of the poor & the disadvantaged (of all races), are also the issues that both candidates ignore and don't address is the reason he chose to run again. To bring attention to those issues.

He hoped now, as he has in the past, that the Dem nom would vow to fight for those same issues so he wouldn't have to run, but Obama hasn't. So he (Nader) chooses to run. I still don't understand why people see this as a bad thing, when Nader's been fighting his whole life for the underdog and those who don't normally have a voice.

Maf,

Please save me from my own ignorance and explain Nader's statement. I need help in understanding how one "talks white" and why that is relevant to the task at hand?