Shanghai Diaries - July 02

Hey, your attitude is what it is, and best to just be honest about it. If you were actually prejudiced, then you'd never question whether you were or not.

Attitudes are made from individual experiences and when we get enough negative stuff in our lives, it can finally go over a line and then we've had it and time to get away. It can be a our job, or in our social circle, or where we live, but sometimes change can be a good thing.

For me, though I thoroughly enjoyed being over there and it never got to me, what it made me feel was how American I truly was and how grateful I was for certain attitudes that come along with that. Life to me wasn't cheap, it was dear. Manners were important, especially towards women. (the ladies in my office thought it was so funny that I would actually open doors for them) I was from a land where there was a variety of news and opinions, none that were banned. Now don't get me wrong, there are Americans who hold life cheap, have no manners and only read views they hold, but the general attitude is like mine.

There are all kinds of people in China with different attitudes, but in general there is rudeness on the street (but never in the home), a lower value on life, a more monolithic mindset from the propaganda, etc.

I'm sure everyone from every country can look at things in this way, seeing certain cultural traits that they're sure glad they were raised with. It's those things that we can bring to others and hopefully share with them and maybe even change an attitude or two.

On the other hand, I was very impressed with the sense of family in Shanghai, how children related to their parents and closest friends. I appreciated the way couples would date, not the casual, pell mell way we do it in the west but more deliberately, friends first and slowly becoming a couple after they already knew each other well. I really enjoyed the level of friendship that can be developed there, a level tighter than normally seen in the west. So every culture has its good and bad points; it's never one sided.

But in the end, there are certain things we want in our lives, and maybe Aric at this point in his life needs some things he just can't get in China. Time for your bootheels to be a'wanderin, buddy... (not so subtle Dylan reference)

I also find it a little difficult to answer people when they ask me about China, but it's because I'm ethnically Chinese. I was born and raised in the US and recently moved to Shanghai, so many Chinese people would ask me how I feel about China, how it compares to the US, stuff like that. I feel like they expect me to say good things because they think I've "come back to the motherland", which is not why I'm there, but I really don't have anything to say that they'd want to hear. I usually just end up saying it's "different" and pretend to have no opinion on anything political.

Hi Aric,

I find it interesting when people ask me about China as well. I have a few Chinese "brothers" and "sisters" that are dear friends that we would do anything for each other. So my view of China from that end is very different from my view of China having spent time in Dongguan which also contrasts with my time in HK.

The best way I can describe this is the way I describe my time living in the Bronx in NY. Sure there are some brutal parts to life and some of the people there, but there is also a beautiful side to life and some of the people there in some of the areas. So I try to characterise it as a "brutal beauty". That is my view of China as well.

In business in China, there are those who have the honour and ethics that are unassailable, then there are also those I would not trust to help me tie my shoes. So I have difficulty articulating to friends & family when they ask, "how is it working with China?" and giving them an answer that is both honest and containing all the necessary nuances to be truthful.

So it isn't a racism that you are exhibiting, I will call it an awareness of a difference between some of the people near & dear to you versus what I will call the China stereotype (after all, lest we forget there is a kernel of truth in stereotypes otherwise they would cease to exist).

You should go to India for the break. And when you come back, you may produce us a documentary about the two nations, which some say they will be the superpowers in the coming age. Just a thought ........

i hate to generalize, but if you are in china and are able to understand chinese.. you will realize that the many chinese use racism and slurs in everyday speech.. .
am i wrong? or just hanging in the wrong places? i believe its more a cultural things than in the states, perhaps its because in china its not as 'culturally mixed?'. if i were you, i wouldnt worry about it aric.. especially since your self-reflective on the subject your two steps ahead of anyone who doesnt do a self check (cough cough **chinese)

Aric,
Sometimes we just get exhausted. Take a break. Explore other places.

The Weng'an story is an important one. It could become an important landmark in the history of China. Maybe.
http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/07/02/wengan-how-the...

oh, how I love new media - thanks guys.

some really good points brought up here:

sdsteve - yeah, again, this goes back to once you break that bubble; if you're in, then you're seriously in and have a friend for life. but if you're not - forget it.

dwkan - what would you want to tell them, if they would listen pragmatically?

santafromnorth - 'aware of the differences'...I like that

micer - good idea; but think I need a few months to breathe before getting back into said superpowers, ha ha

bawong - good point, actually. you spend some time here?

mutantjedi - a break is needed. weng'an is important though, I agree.

If they would listen pragmatically? Wow. I'd tell them that "Zhonghua Minzu" is an idealistic concept (as opposed to reality) that the different rulers of China have been using and modifying for their own agendas. If they can believe that, then they can understand that China has not always been the same, that not all people within China's current borders have always been considered Chinese, that government and people/ethnicity are separate entities. And then we can talk about the western provinces and Taiwan.

But if I say any of that, they'd just think I've been indoctrinated by the Americans, that I've forgotten that I'm a "Huá rén".

Hi Aric,
Its strange how our opinions change over time.

My only personal opinions of China are based upon 4 days that I spent there last year on the way back from a trip to Europe.

I found Hong Kong to be a vibrant and fascinating place and felt safer walking around there with my wife at all times of the day and night than I had felt in London.

The first day we were there, we were trying to find our way to the Mt Victoria Peak Tram and a young Chinese female office worker on her way to work, asked if we needed help and then escorted us throught the covered footpath system right to the tram station.

The next day we were on one of the double decker trams taking loads of pictures and a working man in overalls asked us if we were looking for the markets. He suggested that we would get loads of good photos there and tolds us when we were near the best stop to get off for the markets.

We really enjoyed ourselves and had only positive experiences, and that was why i decided to start learning Chinese when we got back to Australia.

I wanted to learn Chinese as fast as possible and get back to some of the other cities to see more of these friendly, dynamic people.

Since then though, there have been the ugly scenes with the olympic torch, and scenes of Chinese students here in Canberra bashing Australians who were demonstrating against the Tibet issue. I personally have no view on Tibet, but I do have a view on freedom of speech and freedom of expression, so i was not impressed by seeing Chinese trying to suppress our right to free speech in our own country.

As part of my studies of the language and culture, I have also been on a few forums and have seen some pretty racist anti-western comments coming from Chinese posters.

One poster basically said that there should be no western expats in China taking Chinese jobs. I think that is a bit rich for a country that has over 40 million of its people living in other people's countries.

What really annoyed me was the tightening of visas. Why bother learning a language when the country that owns the language can suddenly decide to ban foreigners from entering.

Working in Canberra, Australia in the IT industry about 25% of my work colleagues are Chinese. I wonder how China would react if all their visas were cancelled and they were sent back to China?

Aric, I have noticed your attitude changing over the course of time as well.

I started listening to Chinese Pod about three months ago and found your Saturday show through that.

I have been an expat myself, living in the UK, New Zealnd, Holland and Vietnam, so I was really interested in hearing the expat view of China.

I am in the habit of listening to the backlog of ChinesePod lessons on my MP3 each day while commuting to work, and the other day, I heard for the first time, the session where you were a guest of Jenny and Ken, discussing Chinese food.

Aric, in that lesson you are so excited about China that its astounding to see how your opinions and attitudes have changed for the worse over such a relatively brief period of time.

Do you ever get a chance to re-listen to any of those old podcasts or re watch the Saturday show videos? They were so positive and fun. If you do check them out I bet you are amazed at the difference a couple of years and a load of experiences can make to your perception of a country and its people.

I suppose what i try to remind myself is that there are over 1 billion Chinese and we can only hope to meet a tiny minority of them, so its hard to be sure we dont over generalise about them.

Anyway, keep up the good work and good luck in your next country.

It's been amazing to me just how good the posts are on this site. I don't think I've ever seen such a high percentage of interesting, well thought out opinions or responses on any blog comment section.

What a pleasure to read about all your amazing experiences and ideas about China, the people, how the country has developed, strengths and warts, etc. The regular contributors always have something cogent to say, and many of the new contributors have terrific comments.

Aric, I sure hope you manage to keep this going in one form or another while on the road. While that might be too much to ask, let us know how you'll keep us up to date as you wander around SE Asia. I'll be curious to hear what new comments are posted about those countries.

Hi Aric, I was 3 days out of Internet... what a hell...now I´m back and am kind of in heaven ^_^
As time changes, people do as well, so I think your opinion about china etc. will be positive again as soon as the situation for you will return to being positiv again.
So I don´t think any racism is behind your opinion.
I hope you have an awsome time to recharge your batteries and wish you that things get exciting and all positive again ^_^

Hello! I haven't commented before but I herd about your show through Chinese Pod (我学中文) and I am really grateful for your cultural insight as an American living in China. Keep doing a great job!

As far as your "racist" feelings go, I think that they are your feelings, and you cant really control them. the only thing you can do is admit to yourself what is real. It is pointless to be like, oh I see everyone the same! when it is not true. that is only replacing ignorance with more ignorance.

Also, I feel like you have been mistreated by the Chinese government which really represents the Chinese people. What are you supposed to think? lets put it a different way. lets say you were exposed to a lot of snakes, and each time you saw one it bit you. would you like snakes after that? I don't mean to compare Chinese people to snakes cuz they are not. I tend to like them (thus why I am studying their language/culture).

However, if you want to break yourself of this racism, new experience is the best way. take the same snake example, if you find yourself among a bunch of snakes who don't bight you and actual are nice to you, you will start to like snakes again. Keep in mind that you do not control your feelings. your brain will throw random stuff at you and you have to just take it. Also, those feelings don't mean that you have to act on them. You are better than that :-). Plus, after all, if you were raciest why would you live in a country where there are hardly any white people :-)

Thanks again for your cultural insight! I hope that you don't get too down with the bad stuff. Just go to some amazing Chinese concerts and you will be fine again. I hope :-) Keep up the good work and I will keep visiting

Here's a followup on the Weng'an story on foolsmountain.com

http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/07/05/heads-roll-fig...

That's a pretty brave, honest post Aric. I think any Westerner in China encounters those feelings every now and then - it shows some good character traits if you're checking your own views like that. China's a tough nation that hasn't really developed a way of incorporating foreigners properly, except with suspicion. If the US, a nation built on immigration, still has its difficulties, I think we've got to give the Chinese time to find their international feet.

Your frustration is not racism. People are so quick to label anyone especially white males racist for making any critical observation on non-western culture. Good pod BTW!