Muslims feel much like the 'Jews of Europe'

If you 'don't mean to equate with the Holocaust', perhaps drawing a comparison to 'The Jews of Europe' isn't your best move.

And to claim that there's a 'message out there that it's OK' to target Muslims is ridiculous. This type of talk only acheives further tension.

While I think it is crucial to take discrimination against Muslims - and any other group - seriously, I wonder why it is necessary to bring in the Jewish community with their very specific history? It is just a very unfortunate comparison.

Discriminating against them in our countries will come to no good but they do not help the issue much. Countries like Saudi Arabia do not even pretend in any way not to discriminate against all other religions except Islam with it's 'LAW' requiring that all citizens be muslims. The supposed moderates in this country do not comdem or speak up enough against some of the insane rantings of the more extreme segments of their religion. The religion appears to me, through my admittedly limited view on it, to be dogmatic, sexist, domineering and aggressive. Angry, bearded, sexually repressed men with their women hidden away back home (and when they do come out completely covered except a slit in the eyes walking a few steps behind the man). It's not really good PR!!

It's xenophobia, plain and simple. Undeniably, the tensions stem from religious differences; in particular the noticeable effect that their faith has only the day to day life of most Muslims, particlarly women. This is in stark contrast to the more private religious practices predominantly of the Christian and Jewish religious inhabitants of Europe.

For example, in the very specific case of the covering of the face and body of women, I realistically cannot see how this could ever be reonciled (i.e. completely accepted as the norm) with the modern climate of sexual equality.

The summary claims that "He said he himself had been the target of a string of racist incidents". I find it unbelievable that this issue could become confused with the issue of racism: this is completely a religious matter.

Hello Merge

Yeah, i'll agree with him.

My mum was about in the second world war and she has agreed with me that the British government is treating Muslims like the nazis treated Jews.

I've noticed it on the BBC especially.

You have to be careful what news and entertainment you allow yourself to watch because some of it has a motive. Rather than giving you a subject to think about, it tells you what to think.

I noticed someone saying its because of historic religious stuff.

I think its more of a modern problem. Like the fact that we are at war and this is the use of propaganda.

What is very interesting is the flow of power from west to east, oppositly related to the flow of oil.

Which makes me wonder if people will start hating Arabs/Muslims for the accumulation of wealth from oil.

Funny, I seem to rememeber something about Jews being good with money and that being a reason to dislike them too.

Why can't we all just get along?

Didn't Guru Nanak or someone in the bible or quran or some good book say something like

"I pray for my Muslim brothers and sisters.
I pray for my Jewish brothers and sisters.
Just as I pray for my Christian brothers and sisters.
I pray for my own, just as I pray for them as though they are my own.
For truly we are all the children of God."

God bless us all.

Discrimination is never a good thing, whether it's religious or otherwise.And I have to agree with Merge9, the Muslim community does not help the issue.
The Middle East WAS the cradle of civilization, promoting science, medicine, art and culture.
What happened to them?
Their whole culture just quite moving forward. Is it because they silenced some of their best people? Namely, women?

A muslim will never feel 100% comfortable in a state that is not ruled by Islam, and then when it is ruled by Islam far worse atrocities happens than discrimination !

I'll second csmonut; we often forget that Arab scholars invented algebra, our modern number system (which we take completely for granted), and many concepts which european scientists didn't get around to until well after the dark ages. What went wrong??? I'd seriously like to know, as I'm not a historian.

funnily enough, Muslims like men, women,blacks, jews , gays and left handed albinos are not all the same
they are not one contiguous group!

They range from open and liberal, to closed and conservative. and odd mixes of both.
Burka wearers to Jimmy choo wearers...

My mate is from Sudan (black and muslim, filling two of my ethic minority tickboxes!) He drinks, has an irish girlfirend and a kid with her, yet still does ramadan (i think he's crazy to bother in a cold country) and is muslim.

Maybe its that we have much less immigration here and don't have large areas of muslims that become ghettoised and separated...
If you emigrate into a place with few of your "kind" you gotta integrate of die really...

*sigh*
Okay, why is the muslim woman wearing neqab (full face covering)? If you wear going to show a muslim woman why didn't you just show her with a headscarf on? Islam doesn't say that a woman should cover her face, so really what was the point of that?

So I come back from school and come on the computer and this is what i get.

Nice guys, nice.

Could you explain what exactly the holy books say on the matter? My understanding was that covering up was a sign of defiance against non-muslim nations. Also what is your explanation for the place of women in Saudi?

Hey Aaya.

I thought it was just me that was slightly worried about the tone of some peoples comments.

If this is the general level of intelligent comment from the average english person then I am, quite frankly, shocked.

The muslim faith and culture is still moving forwards and developing just like like the British err, way of life is.

And if anyone is guilty of once being a nation of brilliant minds reduced to babble, its the English.

Your comments are proof of it.

Pure ignorance.

It is true that equality for women increases economic prosperity.

Please remember though, it has been the global norm to favour boys over girls. We had the sufferagettes and the eastern developing world now has similar groups working for the equality of women.

Your all just a bunch of gripeing %$^$£.

Go and read some interfaith material or something.

You must accept that the Muslim faith is much more resistant to change than others out there, with very apparent results.

Besides, the point is not that most of the world ONCE favoured men over women, the point is that now, equality is getting more and more attention. Do you not agree if Muslims, who are welcome, move to a country they should abide by its customs?

Also, could you shed some light on the stance of the Koran/Hadith regarding how women should present themselves in public? Pretty much all monotheistic religious texts are completely outdated in their attitude towards women (which were of course created from the rib of the first man, rather than created as equals, which really WOULD be ridiculous); its just that the Koran seems to be adhered to more fervently.

Hey rwylie did you know that there is a surah(chapter) in the quran that talks about the greatness of women and that men should have the utmost respect for them? Did you also know that there are many hadiths (teachings of the prohet pbuh) that talk about the importance of women? There is not one surah or hadith that talks about the importance or greatness of men.


You said that your understanding "was that covering up was a sign of defiance against non-muslim nations". I wear a headscarf and I am proud, I also chose to wear it myself. Why do you have it in your mind that all muslims are rebellious? Have you ever met a muslim, they are nice people you know. I'm not wearing a headscarf just to annoy non-muslim nations, i'm wearing it because I believe it's right. Just because I cover my hair does not mean i'm different from anyone else, I socialize alot and I mix in with society.


Now you asked about what I think of about the place of women in saudi. Well I've got to be honest some of the laws there are just down right pathetic, I mean a woman can't even drive in the country for goodness sake. Of course this is all down to the goverment and has nothing at all to do with religion. Obviously the goverment are not doing this because they disrespect women, it's because they actually think they are protecting them ( sounds stupid I know).


Oh and hey to you too longpod!

Aaya, thanks for your reply.

I do know quite a few Muslims, and they are all really nice people you're right. I have also been to Libya, and again the people were some of the nicest that I have ever met, and noticeably very happy. I hope you didn't get the impression that my crtitcism of some aspects of Islam were criticisms against Muslims themselves. I was simply commenting on what the religion appears to motivate the good people who follow it to do.

I have absolutely nothing against wearing headscarves, and do not see them as any different to dresses or jewlery, and I personally think they look quite elegant. It is only when women cover their mouths or entire faces (rare I know), that it becomes difficult to have a conversation with them; full human communication requires the expressions from the whole face.

Although the regime is harsh in Saudi, you cannot deny that through Shaira law, they take their rules directly from the Koran, including presumably their treatment of women as second class citizens.

Rwylie the majority of muslims do abide by the country's customs, yes there are the few idiots but you get that in every community. You asked me about how women should present them selves in public, well islam says that you should cover all of your body excluding the hands, feet and face. This does not not mean that you have to wear a long black robe/dress (jilbab). For example whenever I go out I wear either a long skirt or a pair of jeans, I wear long sleeved tops but they don't have to be dull they can be really colourful. I also have many different hijab styles, patterns and colours etc...


So you see we are not limited to just one certain thing but if a muslim does want to wear a jilbab or the neqab then its really up to them.


And it's not just women it's the men too. For men they cover from their belly button to their knee. And for both sexes their clothes shouldn't be really tight or seethrough.

The Saudi government Have no respect for women or human rights in general., they are one of the most horrible regimes in the world.
We, civilised people should have no business with them...its a pity what the are sitting on

islam does not have a huge amount of respect for women no matter what way you spin it, especially in the more extreme regions of the world.

That's not to say you can't be a moderate muslim, of course you can, Christianity has a lot of disrespect towards women too at some of its roots.

But in modern "christian" countries women are equal (or close enough for the point i'm making)

I'm neither Christian nor Muslim btw.

Hey rwylie i'm just responding to the last comment you left (By the way thanks for saying that the hijab looks elegant). I understand your point greatly and i know when a woman wears the full face covering(neqab) it is kind of hard to have a converstion with them, especially if you are not used to talking to someone with neqab on. I do know a few women who wear the neqab and i feel that it is their right and who am i to critize? But on the other hand sometimes a feel slightly embarrassed when i see women with neqab walking down the street.

The saudi goverment are a bit, well lets just say i've never liked them much. You have probably heard of the whole 'cutting the hands of theives' can i just say that this method is VERY VERY RARELY used, it's just a kind of warning I suppose. People always go on about how islamic laws are 'barbaric' this is simply not true, in America they sentence people to death however i would not call American law 'barbaric', I hope you got my point.

Saudi's do get their laws from the quran but I can tell you that they do not take the whole 'women are second class citzens'. They actually think that what they are doing is right, as I said before they trying to 'protect' them. They also don't allow women to travel without a man, even if their is a number of women in a group that are going they still won't let them without a man. This is them also trying to 'protect' women. My mum, my nan and my brother wanted to go to hajj, however my brother is disabled so they wouldn't allow them to travel to saudi to go to mecca. I would like to make this clear once more that this is NOT the quran, this is just stupid saudi law.

To owwmykneecap, you say that, 'islam does not have a huge amount of respect for women no matter what way you spin it'. Islam does have a lot of respect for women, in the prohet times women would fight in battles, the prohets followers would come to his wife to ask her for advise about islam and how they should act. So if islam had no respect for women then why would the prohets followers come to her, if islam had no respect for women then they would never come to a women to seek advise!

I am sorry to say that it is not Islam that is the problem, it is some muslims that have never really understood islam.

By the way thanks for you guys for commenting on these kind of stuff. It makes me feel happy for being able to explain things.

Oh and sorry for writing an assay!

The Jews were persecuted and massacred by the Germans! The Muslims are protected by the British government. I'm sick and tired of the pathetic whingeing and whining by Muslims when their own belief system is a totalitarian political ideology disguised as a religion that does not separate church and state. It is a supremacist and expansionist force that does not only use terror as a tactic but slow stealthy cultural infiltration and demographic dominance. To compare this group to the Jews who were the victims of genocide is disgusting. Also, Hitler admired Islam for its heartlessness and cruelty, and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al Husseini, grandfather of Arafat, was a friend and ally of Hitler and formed the Bosnian Muslim SS.

Just to put the record straight and cut through the taquiya:

Six translations of Qur'an 4:34:

1. "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!" (Rodwell's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)
2. "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme." (Dawood's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)
3. "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great." (Pickthall's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)
4. "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great." (Arberry's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)
5. "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. (Shakir's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)
6. "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all). (Ali's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)

Respect for women? Get real. This is the Koran...the immutable word of God that cannot be challenged.