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Raising an Issue: Californian Independence

  2. FallenMorgan
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It's a small movement today - only one website is devoted to it, and few really care about the subject. California's economy could quite possibly be the seventh largest in the world, with effective agriculture, wine production, gold, and many other recources (including marijuana, but that doesn't count, really). We have the country's largest population, and a system of direct democracy.

Problem is, we have to deal with the federal government. Our taxes go to them, and they spend very little of it on us (something I forgot to mention in the blog I'm linking to). I urge Californians to get informed on the issue, especially with the Bush administration, and quite possibly, a "McCain administration," that will further bring us all down.

Also, don't forget the dollar is worth 41% less than it was before Bush.
FallenMorgan

28 responses // Raising an Issue: Californian Independence

  • i hope you get your independence , just dont come to us when you guys have a major disastor
    jeromecon
    1 response to this
  • We won't come to you, we'll come to the UN or NATO or something. Also, if the US is willing to provide aid to the rest of the world, why not us? The intent of most independence advocates is peaceful secession. Sure, there'd be animosity, but we have non-political aid organizations, ya know.
    FallenMorgan
    2 responses to this
  • Would it still be called California?
    greenfly5
  • What else would we call it? We might change the flag though...something easier to draw, or silkscreen.
    FallenMorgan
    2 responses to this
  • I think this is a time when the US needs unity (which it is already sorely lacking).

    One thing I can't stand is people actively promoting division, on either side. No offense, everybody has their views, but succeeding from the US would be a step backward in the long run, not a step forward.
    Why not deal with the problems instead of running away from them?
    Not that I actually think this is going to happen any time soon, but the ideas it can easily spread are unhealthy overall.

    Call it what you want; I say it's divisiveness without any point.
    And if you start in with the "we're already so much like another country, anyway," you may want to check that your nose isn't the highest point on your body.

    The world has been divided into countless feuding clans/ tribes/ kingdoms/ countries/ empires for far too long; we need to be taking steps towards eliminating national identities in the sense we have them now (since nationalism is one of the most blatant forms of "I'm better than you because I'm better than you" monkey business).

    We shouldn't be deepening the divide.
    This sounds like more of the same pompous warmongering - maybe not now, but a couple generations from now almost definitely.
    Just because we already had a civil war doesn't mean we'll never have another.
    No one should want that.

    If you think I'm being too extreme with it, read up on some history. It only takes fifty or so years for countries and schools of thought to change drastically - sometimes much less.
    Militant, hyper-left liberals are easy to imagine, sad to say - just as easy to imagine as militant, hyper-right conservatives.
    Both of them already exist; they shouldn't be given outlets as huge as this; it only allows that thought process to breed like mosquitoes in a warm puddle.

    This may sound hunky-dory, but it's overly idealistic, dangerous, and stupid in the long run.

    Just my thoughts/ opinion.
    Humdrum
  • adios,

    muevete guey!

    god bless america
    god bless big oil and texas!
    mrburns
  • Secession to my mind is nothing short of treason. You betray the trust of 49 states and three protectorates for the benfit of one. Out of many one. That is the motto of this nation and it was won with blood, sweat, and tears. 600,000 men died in the Civil War and I wish that weren't so easily forgotten. 200,000 men went from my home state to serve. So many didn't come home that there are ghost towns from that period in my state to this day.

    In the center of my home town is the soldiers and sailors monument, atop it lies lady liberty facing south, with an outstretched beacon lighting the way home for those who can no longer see the light or make thier way home. It stands as a reminder of the price we paid when we stopped thinking of ourselves as people of a state over peoples of a nation.

    What we need to do is work to make a nation that is worthy of unity rather than plan to leave the nation weaker. A house divided can not stand and any loss of a state is more than the loss of land and taxes, its the loss of an ideal. Its the loss of the idea of America, that regardless of our diferences, of our greivances we can find common ground.
    ocanada
    1 response to this
  • Treason is making war with the US. Most people for Californian independence are all four peaceful means of independence. Also, just to note, the declaration of independence basically says we have the right to do so...Californians, even if independent, will always be in debt to those who died fighting for America. An independent California would be like a child of America - without America, we ourselves would never be independent, if that event ever happens.
    FallenMorgan
  • Some would consider Californian independence treason. What did they consider American independence?
    Treason. The founding fathers and revolutionary fighters were treasonists and terrorists, what most people don't understand is that that's not necessarily a bad thing. The term terrorism is an extremely broad one, yet it's only used these days to refer to scary Ay-rabs who blow themselves up in the middle of crowded bazaars.
    One of the main pillars of the California Constitution will be the principle that California will only attack if attacked, always in self defense. If the people of California are attacked as a result of our efforts, there will be an equal and opposite reaction. I am not speaking my intentions or the intentions of anyone I know, merely that when a people are attacked they tend to fight back.
    The Independence of California will no doubt result in troublesome and uncertain times, as in the birth of any nation. Borders will shift, names will change, and people will probably be sent to places that aren't supposed to exist should the revolution take place under a government similar to the current administration.
    But after this short period we will see a new renaissance of society, culture, government, and economy. While America slowly falls, California will only grow in power.
    Many have referred to the current amount of debt the Nation of California owes to the US, and all I know about this is that it will be resolved with time.
    Another key aspect of the revolution will be declaring our independence at an opportune moment. Quite likely it would be a time of crisis, likely economical considering the way things seem to be going and the large amount of leverage we would have in that situation. We are one of the top ten economic powers in the world, and we are the most agriculturally productive state in the old union. A simple blockade of produce would devastate the US, and certainly provoke a reaction. The reaction is what matters. Should the US act violently, as I fear they would, reactive violence would ensue. Should they tighten their grip on us, the people of California would feel more motivated to resist.
    For now, we will have to wait for that moment.
    recommended by  ILiveonaClock
    Dmitri_Molotov
    1 response to this
  • Recent events have clearly shown the US government is becoming corrupt. I would love California to become independent, but I just don't see how it could happen. We provide most of agricultural products used in the US, we also have many valuable natural resources. The US would never give us up so easily.
    Smothmoth
  • although im a Calif. native, i think Texas should be its own country. dont let one idiot mislead you. I have been to awesome Austin, and although I know is unlike the rest of TX, I was quite happy to visit such great state. People are nice and dont give a fuck what the latest apple gizmo is or if your jeans are worn by jessica alba.
    -
    Id be really down to have north and south Calif.
    very utopia. Then the US wouldnt be the same. just not a good visual. interesting point, though.
    meligrosa
    4 responses to this
  • Wow. Jeromecon seems to be really angry at this.
    I wonder whats the reason of so much distress?
    Juas
  • “A constitution of government, once changed from freedom, can never be restored; liberty, once lost, is lost forever." John Adams

    Even though the politicians of our day ignore the constitution we still have it. So I don’t think we’ve reached that point where a state needs to sever its ties to the nation. On the other hand it would feel awesome to declare my independence from the government. I would love nothing better than to stand on the border and flash my bits and pieces at those lowly souls who continue to play the game by contributing to a flawed system.

    Like I said before though, we haven’t reached that point. A state like California, who consistently stands up to the rule of the Feds, will always give me hope that the system is not completely broken. Americans need to stand up and support state laws and state rights.
    Ricky84
  • Amen!
    keeesha
  • I like this buzz.

    Fallen Morgan is right - "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    If you don't like it, you can change it or leave. I don't believe secession is treason. Sorry but it's not the 1600s anymore. We can't just get on a boat and claim some land from poor native peoples, so leaving means secession in this day and age. I think everyone should take the time to read the Declaration. You might just be appalled when you see the list of tyrannies we were escaping then and how tyrannical we ourselves have become.

    Go for it California. I'm moving to you in oh about 3 weeks.
    elisealcyone
  • http://www.mises.org/story/2874
    I'd love to see it, but how are they going to do it?

    If I remember my Texas history correctly, Texas is the only state that still has a clause to succeed from the Union in its constitution.

    I think I also heard that there are some in Vermont who want to do the same.

    This is what happens when the Federal Government becomes too oppressive.
    Libertas
  • Being born in West Virginia, a technically illegal state, created by seceding from Virginia, and being a former resident of Virginia, a state that seceded from the Union, and being a former resident of Quebec, a province desiring to secede from Canadian confederation, I have to say, I agree with you.

    If the people of California desire secession from the Union, they should be allowed to peacefully leave that Union. I think we (I now live in L.A.) should turn our backs on the United States and fend for ourselves. End the subservience to the power brokers in Washington, end the dependence on foreign oil, end the treacherous reliance on the Federal Reserve, end the drain of our money and resources to the rest of the nation, and join the world community.

    We are already roundly disliked and derided by the so-called conservative red-staters of America, even though they owe so much of their existence to us, whether it is food, wine, or culture.

    Let us leave and you won't have us to worry about anymore. You won't have to concern yourselves with our lifestyles, our abortions, our gays, our elitism, our multiculturalism, our liberal views, or anything else you beat your bibles about regularly. Imagine all the time you will now have free to criticize someone else in your churches and public meeting places.

    I would go one step further; I would secede and suggest that the United States be treated as a belligerent nation and should be not trusted either monetarily or militarily. We should sever all financial and military ties, and form our own internal banking system (based on the gold standard) and form our own defense system...and maybe even dig a moat along our borders and fill it with alligators, if necessary.

    Seriously, any people that want to secede from a larger nation should be allowed to peacefully go. Why force them to stay? Is it better to have an angry rebellious populace forced to keep an association they do not want, or to have a new, friendly neighbor?
    Eddybaby

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