Community | July 16, 2008 | 49 comments

Making Hybrids Noisy

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stopnoise
The federal government is considering legislation to set noise levels for hybrid cars. If passed, automakers will be mandated to add external speakers on all hybrid vehicles.

Maryland

Making Hybrids Noisy

A proposed law, HR 5734, mandates noise making generators on quiet vehicles.

The National Federation for the Blind has been lobbying congress for noise making generators on hybrid-electric cars, claiming that the noise will allow their members to better hear them. If passed, automakers will be mandated to add external speakers on all hybrid vehicles.

You can read more about the issue from this article published by AP / ABC News. NoiseOFF was cited in the article:

"To further expose millions of people to excessive noise pollution by making vehicles artificially loud is neither logical nor practical nor in the public interest," said Richard Tur, founder of NoiseOFF, a group that raises awareness of noise pollution.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) held a public meeting to bring together government policymakers, industry representatives and public interest groups on the issue of noise making generators on quiet cars including hybrids, all-electric vehicles and quiet internal combustion engine vehicles.

Representatives from the National Federation for the Blind testified for mandating noise. They also provided grant money to a start-up company to design and build external speakers on hybrid automobiles.

Millions of people who live near busy roadways, thoroughfares, intersections and parking lots are adversely affected by vehicle noise at all hours of the day and night.

Hybrids reduce ambient street and highway noise. The reason why people purchase hybrids, among other reasons, is because they are quiet vehicles.

There are other viable solutions, including wireless audible receivers that can alert blind pedestrians to oncoming vehicle traffic.

Written comments may be submitted to NHTSA and must be received no later than August 1, 2008.

NHTSA Headquarters
1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
West Building
Washington, DC 20590

The Federal Register Docket is: NHTSA-2008-0108.
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    Hemp,  Acoustic Education,  Acoustic Pollution,  Public Action Issue,  4 more
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49 comments // Making Hybrids Noisy

  • theammixman
    • 0
      theammixman  

    • you have got to be kidding me. now i cant afford one, but anyone go for a ride in a benz or any other new high end car, that is not a sports car. you cant even here some kias comin at ya. use the senses you dont think you have, then you know where everything is, even those anyoing sneak up on ya hybrids.

      Bruce

    • 3 years ago
  • Amber_LaStrega
    • 0
      Amber_LaStrega  

    • Chiming in.

      Really loud motorcycles work my last nerve.

      That said: a few weeks ago, I moved into the right lane on the highway, and cut off a guy on a motorcycle. When I saw him in my rearview mirror, he was just shaking his head. Holy shit! I could've killed him! I slowed so that he would pass me. I felt so bad, I followed him (he probably thought I was a crazy person), and at the next stop light I got out and apologized profusely. He was pretty cool about it. Said "[It] happens all the time." I apologized again, gave him my number, and told him I owed him a beer. He laughed and I ran back to my car, as the light had turned green.

      For the record, his 'cycle was a rather loud Harley, and further: my driver's window was down.

      He hasn't called ("... yeah, she was definitely a crazy person").

      I've always been, what I consider, a good driver. Never been in an accident ... not even a fender-bender (knock on wood) ... haven't even been a passenger in a car that's had an accident (knock on noggin). But I guarantee, now I'm way more careful to look over my shoulder EVERY time I switch lanes (I'd only looked in my side mirror).

      Hrm. Now I'm wondering if this is a relevant comment.

      *Amber goes all doe in the headlights* (no pun)

      I guess what I'm saying is: his rather loud 'cycle didn't make up for my stupid mistake. I'm not saying that blind people would make a "stupid" mistake by walking into oncoming 'quiet' traffic ... just. Oh hell. I dunno. I'm gonna shut the hell up. (again, no pun ... shhhhhhh)

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • Hi Drew, Thanks for your comments! Actually the word "silence" it is totally figurative as "silence" does not exist here on Earth, maybe in the cosmic space. But even there you will be able to hear your heart beat. What we are looking for it is quietness from a World that got excessively loud because some people are passive, some misunderstood it and some mischievously have taken advantage of it. However we can regain what we have lost by step down and exercising our rights of quietness.

    • 3 years ago
  • drewsuf721
    • 0
      drewsuf721  

    • Seriously, it is sometimes scary being too silent. I am an avid skateboarder, and although people are taught to be defensive, they aren't. Skateboarders and I'm sure cyclists too always need to be dodging around stupid drivers who think they are more important because they are encased with thin walls. Cyclists have the luxury of a bell, what can I do? I can curse, so that's what I do. Cars are for lazy people anyway, wanna be environmentally friendly? We already got the technology people, man-powered vehicles.

    • 3 years ago
  • cibalin
  • flamegarden
    • 0
      flamegarden  

    • THE ELIMINATION OF VEHICLE NOISE IS A GOOD THING.

      There are plenty of other forms of technology to solve the "sneaky" problem.

      To add noise to a noiseless machine is just laziness.

      What about a clip-on sensor that blind people and cyclists -- or anyone truly concerned about these overly sneaky cas -- could clip on? Give EVs a radiating pulse or something.

      DON'T RUIN A GOOD THING!

    • 3 years ago
  • jubal
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • Stopnoise, this is a tuff call, I have been reading peoples comments on this. I can understand the safety issue, but speakers are too much.

      Are blind people going to walk out into a street without a signal that lets them know its OK to cross? They already have those coockoo sounds at the intersections for the blind.

      Sometimes I think that big brother can go too far.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • jubal:

      You got that right Jubal! I love the blind, the elderly and the partially deaf but they have lobbied our State and Federal Government in such a way that it is now violating our acoustic rights. Our Government is quiet doing whatever they ask for with no restrictions. Even if their requests conflicts with noise controls. Only those living near of the San Francisco Transportation knows what is to have your house totally possessed by a electronic voices, beep signals, high pitched wishes and so forth. This Government is betting on chaos! For them chaos is great, they can make more money with it. People will get sick and sicker, more doctors, more medical bills, more construction work. Divide and Conquer is the Motto!

    • 3 years ago
  • cakemix
    • 0
      cakemix  

    • Stopnoise, we all understand that noise pollution is a problem. The article addressed it. What we're talking about here is safety, and especially (according to the article) for blind people. It's not about people operating other motor vehicles hearing other cars, it's about people who rely on sound to know where cars are, and avoid them. And meligrosa is just sympathizing, and relating to the situation.

      It really is something we will eventually get used to. Maybe we'll even adapt to listen for the "whir" of traffic, rather than the roar of it.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • cakemix:

      Hi! Thanks for your comment that is by the way on topic. I have been working and researching social acoustic issues related with traffic and safety for 10 Years now. There are less than 1% of blind people in the City of San Francisco and there are technologies for them, even satellite navigation and sensors that detect any type of cars. To obligate 99.9% of the population to noise trespassing and invasion, it is just unreasonable. Looks like we are getting harmer to the source of the problem of acoustic pollution in Transportation and in Construction in the City now.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • As the population grows, there is increasing exposure to noise pollution, which has profound public health implications. Noise pollution creates a need for action at the local level, as well as for improved legislation and management. Urban noise pollution produces direct and cumulative adverse health effects by degrading residential, social, working, and learning environments with corresponding real (economic) and intangible (well-being) losses. The World Health Organization has documented seven categories of adverse health effects of noise pollution on humans.

      1. Hearing Impairment:
      2. Interference with Spoken Communication:
      3. Sleep Disturbances:
      4. Cardiovascular Disturbances:
      5. Disturbances in Mental Health:
      6. Impaired Task Performance:
      7. Negative Social Behavior and Annoyance Reactions:

      Summary of Adverse Health Effects of Noise Pollution Prepared by Louis Hagler, MD Based on the World Health Organization Guideline for Community Noise; Please See:

      http://www.who.int/docstore/peh/noise/guidelines2.html

      for complete report

    • 3 years ago
  • rabidlemur
    • 0
      rabidlemur  

    • You cannot have a world with people and have no noise, want to control loud stereos? sure there is a limit to what is acceptable, want to have a quiet morning without power tools and loud motorcycles? Absolutely, have quiet times set up, but to expect the whole world to be absolutely silent at all times? Boy doesn't someone have a god complex.

      Are we going to ban blenders next? What about all music except Yanni played REALLY soft?, dogs barking, lets remove their voice boxes, crying babies? Muzzle em. Where does this crazy bullshit stop?

    • 3 years ago
  • mario_a
    • 0
      mario_a  
    • Image
    • rabidlemur:

      @stopnoise -- whoa! Ease up on the accusations. Nothing about rabidlemur's post exhibits trolling behavior.

      Remember, everyone has the right to share their opinions and their point of views here on Current, regardless of how different they may be from your own. Just because someone shares an opposing opinion does not mean they are a troll.

      You can't run around calling everyone who disagrees with you a troll, stopnoise. It's counterproductive. I suggest reading through our post on troll spotting over on the Current.com blog -- http://current.com/items/89080677_the_current_com_guide_to_troll_spotting

      Mario

      Online Community Team

    • 3 years ago
  • mario_a
    • 0
      mario_a  
    • rabidlemur:

      @stopnoise -- I'm happy to elaborate. Rabidlemur was not trolling, they commented on your behavior within the thread.

      Regardless of whether or not their comment was off-topic, it was still not trolling behavior (look through this thread, rabidlemur has contributed to the conversation where a real troll would not even bother).

      On several occasions, you rush to call people trolls. Asking everyone to stay on topic is perfectly fine, but splashing troll accusations all over the place is in and of itself off-topic and does nothing but create unnecessary noise on the thread, which is totally distracting and disruptive.

      Please curb the accusatory behavior. There is absolutely no evidence of troll behavior on this thread.

      Mario

      Online Community Team

    • 3 years ago
  • Julie_Soller
    • 0
      Julie_Soller  

    • This is the craziest idea I've ever heard. Making quiet vehicles NOISY because we're all used to so much noise, we're gonna get whacked if a "hybrid car sneaks up behind us."

      In a few years, we'll all be more alert to quiet hybrid cars. Please don't make them noisy.

      And if you're a bicyclist (I am one) I sympathize, but I'd rather bike on a quiet road with hybrids anyday and just turn down the volume in my iPod!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • Julie_Soller:

      Quieter vehicles are fine, the problem I'm having is that hybrids are virtually noiseless. They need to make at least enough sound that we can hear them before they're on top of us, but they don't need to be "noisy" per se.

      Is it legal to listen to your iPod on your bike where you are? We've got a law against it here.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • Julie_Soller:

      One more problem that many people fails to understand Julie it is that noise cannot be controlled. Once a noise signal has been emitted into the air it penetrate walls and cross homes property lines everywhere. That is already happening Today, as I am speaking right now. Many are hostage in their own homes and suffering without help at this moment and some people selfishly wants more noise. People often are intentionally or not failing to understand that when they are on the streets, they are not in an insulated cocoon. That is the United States Construction, Industry, The Government and some People biggest; (intentional or not); misunderstanding concerning the noise issue and transportation.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • The population as a whole cannot be responsible for people personal lack of driving, walk or riding skills.

      Qualifications for driving a machine requires that a person are in good mental standing and within their own sensorial capabilities as hearing, vision, knowledge of driving, traffic laws etc. That by any meaning does not qualify a person to drive as actually doing the whole process requires a little bit more experience. That is the reason we take classes on driving and study the traffic laws. There are no classes for biking but I will recommend you to take one. Some people do not have the necessary skills to ride forward. To ask for the traffic to be noisier to accommodate your lack of driving, walk or riding skills it something You should really reflect about it. There is no amount of noise that will help you out as our streets are already overload with it. That has not prevent accidents from happen.

      You must pay attention in what you are doing and take responsibility for yourself and not shift the responsibility to others.

      It is the drivers and their vehicles that should be fairly looking for pedestrians and for bikers not the other way around. Pedestrians and bikers should be looking after themselves and for the crazy drivers we all know it is out there. If we all pay attention and drive defensively there will be not need to stage an accident or make noise.

    • 3 years ago
  • jade_azul16
  • stopnoise
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • jade_azul16:

      They help in some cases, but not all. For example, they can definitely help sometimes when I'm trying to move from the bike lane to the left turn lane, but they do nothing to help me detect a parked hybrid that's about to pull out in front of me because they don't see me or aren't paying attention. If I hear a car engine start up ahead though, I'm alerted to the fact that someone will be pulling out. If a car engine stops, it's reasonable to assume that someone may be opening their door without looking, and I'm ready to swerve or stop if necessary.

      Pedestrians and cyclists rely on sound to help alert them to the position and movement of cars around them much more than most people realize. I don't think anyone would mind a reduction in engine noise, but a complete lack of reasonably audible noise is dangerous and disconcerting.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • This is too important to be left closed so here it is in the open so you do not need to bother to open the previous post and read. Leave the trolls alone!

      To drive or ride you must use both of your physical and sensorial aptitudes. Actually it is more, you must use your brain also. So here it is; to drive you must use:

      1. Vision
      2. Hearing
      3. Physical motor function
      4. Thought elaboration, (thinking)
      5. Perception

      You do not use or relay on you hearing alone in any of the circumstances. To say your cannot hear the cars and therefore it is dangerous it is a bluff because you can see them.

      ***The reason some claims you cannot hear the cars it is because you must be in a noisy section of town or traffic. It is not only the hybrids cars you cannot hear, you also cannot hear the other vehicles since the noise on the streets it is so high and loud.

      Therefore use your vision and attention and do not try to relay on your hearing alone to ride or drive!

      Therefore the argument on hearing and drive does not follows through. That means that the justification for the use of noise just lost its meaning.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • - Why people want to make others responsible for their own driving mistakes by using noise when we all know that it is not noise but driving defensively is that will avoid and prevent accidents?

      Here is a question:
      - What can I our You do inside of our own homes or office to help drivers or people on the street so them will not get into an accident?

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      How will defensive driving stop a cyclist from accidentally pulling out in front of a hybrid because they can't hear it coming?

      Hearing vehicles approaching helps prevent accidents. You're just outright ignoring that fact in favor of pushing your own agenda.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • stopnoise:

      To drive or ride you must use both of your physical and sensorial aptitudes. Actually it is more, you must use your brain also. So here it is:

      1. Vision
      2. Hearing
      3. Physical motor function
      4. Thought elaboration, (thinking)
      5. Perception

      You do not use or relay on you hearing alone in any of the circumstances. To say your cannot hear the cars and therefore it is dangerous it is a bluff because besides hearing, you can see them.

      ***The reason you are claiming you cannot hear the cars it is because you must be in a noisy section of town or traffic. It is not only the hybrids cars you cannot hear, you also cannot hear the other vehicles since the noise on the streets it is so high around you.

      Use your vision and attention and do not try to relay on your hearing alone to ride or drive!

      Your argument on hearing and drive does not rings through.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
  • stopnoise
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      ...No, I didn't fail to understand the one you posted before. It made just as little sense as this one, because it's the exact same thing. There's no reason to double-post.

    • 3 years ago
  • rabidlemur
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      Stopnoise, neither myself nor rabidlemur are trolls. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a troll. You are misunderstanding the definition of that word.

      Furthermore, I have no idea why you think you won the argument when you have yet to even logically and coherently address my points.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • stopnoise:

      Sometimes I really think you have a problem reading the previous post completely and reflect about what you are reading before laying out your argument. ...and that it is the reason I have to repeat myself;

      "You do not use or relay on you hearing alone in any of the circumstances. To say your cannot hear the cars and therefore it is dangerous it is a bluff because you can see them."

      If you do not have the skill to look behind while your are biking, put a mirror in your bike. Case resolved!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      Stopnoise, I'm not the one with the apparent reading problem. I have already directly addressed this in the comment thread above. But since you insist on repeating yourself, I'll post the same response here that I did there:

      "I never once claimed that you rely on hearing alone. Yes, you use both your eyes and your ears because you CAN'T always see cars coming. Humans do not have 360 degree vision. We have blind spots and varying levels of peripheral vision. So where we cannot see, we listen. It's an inherent human instinct.

      You say "you do not use or rely on your hearing alone," and yet you're asking me to rely on my sight alone? After admitting that we use multiple senses to safely navigate the roads?! How does that even begin to make sense?"

      On top of that, you are also disregarding the quote and video I posted above that explains, "An ongoing study from the University of California at Riverside has found that even slow-moving hybrids can get 40 percent closer to any pedestrian than a combustion-engine car before they are detected. This is also a problem for bicyclists, who rely on their hearing to place traffic around them -- far more than many realize."

      40% closer before they are detected. Cyclists rely on their hearing more than many realize. And this is according to an extremely credible source citing a scientific study. It is not an assumption, it is not someone's opinion, it is FACT. Please take the time to reflect on all that and actually address those points before disregarding these facts and responding with the same circular argument again. As for mirrors, see my answer to Jade down below.

    • 3 years ago
  • piratazephyri
    • 0
      piratazephyri  

    • Don't wheels on the pavement make noise? Rushing air? Are these cars really that quiet? Reducing noise pollution (as well as air pollution) is just an added benefit of hybrid cars.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • piratazephyri:

      They really are that quiet. You can't hear a hybrid car coming until it's practically on top of you, and that's extremely dangerous. Most people don't realize how much they rely on the sound of traffic to tell them when cars are coming.

      In the past month alone while cycling, I've had two separate incidences where I've nearly pulled out right in front of a hybrid coming up behind me because I couldn't hear it and didn't know it was there. As much as I would like my head to be able to swivel 180 degrees, it doesn't, and I can't always see cars when they're a certain distance or angle behind me. I rely on my ears first to alert me they're there. The same goes for cars pulling out of their garages or parking spots. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided getting doored because I heard a parked car's engine turn off just before I approached to pass them.

      There's reducing noise pollution, and then there's reducing noise to the point where it doesn't make safe, logical sense anymore.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • piratazephyri:

      Yes PZP, they do make noise! However when you are in traffic you cannot hear anything but noise of buses, cars, trucks around you. All these noise combined obstruct everyone's hearing abilities to a certain point. That is the reason you must relay in your other senses as vision and attention to ride or drive. Her argument is not complete.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • piratazephyri:

      Last week, while on my bicycle on a country road in Marin that had virtually no traffic, I couldn't hear an approaching Prius because the wind in my ears was louder than the car's engine. It startled me as it passed because I hadn't realized it was there until it was next to me.

      In the video I posted above, you can clearly see that he blind man has to put his ear over the hood of the car in order to hear the engine, and he wonderingly asks if it's even on.

      To say that the only reason you can't hear a hybrid is because of the other noise around it is patently and obviously false.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • What people fail often to understand it is that if a car is going to hit you it is going to happen and he or she is doing it on purpose. Thinking that your bell is going to save your life and fail to slow down or stop it is where the driving mistake is. People should ride , walk or drive defensively, not offensively. It is lack or education and impulse behavior that causes accidents.

      There is less than 1% of blind individuals in the City and available technology for them to move around. Raise the noise on the streets to 99.9% of the population because of that it is the no-sense issue that needs to be understood and fixed by our Government Today. Let us all get the real education and fix the problems instead of causing or staging them!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      "...if a car is going to hit you it is going to happen and he or she is doing it on purpose."

      Wow. Do you honestly believe that?

      Bike bells are generally used to warn oblivious pedestrians of your presence so they don't walk out in front of you, or to warn people in parked vehicles that you're coming and they shouldn't open their door. They're highly useful and have saved a lot of people from injury.

      And are you seriously implying that because blind people are in the minority that we should disregard their safety in the interest of making the majority slightly more comfortable?

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • stopnoise:

      To drive or ride you must use both of your physical sensorial aptitudes. Actually it is more, you must use your brain also. So here it is:

      1. Vision
      2. Hearing
      3. Physical motor function
      4. Thought elaboration, (thinking)
      5. Perception

      You do not use or relay on you hearing alone in any of the circumstances. To day your cannot hear the cars and therefore it is dangerous it is a bluff because you can see them.

      ***The reason you are claiming you cannot hear the cars is because you must be in a noisy section of town. It is not only the hybrids cars you cannot hear, you also cannot hear the other vehicles since the noise on the streets it is so high.

      Use your vision and attention and do not try to relay on your hearing alone to ride or drive!

      Your argument on hearing and drive does not ring through.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      I never once claimed that you rely on hearing alone. Yes, you use both your eyes and your ears because you CAN'T always see cars coming. Humans do not have 360 degree vision. We have blind spots and varying levels of peripheral vision. So where we cannot see, we listen. It's an inherent human instinct.

      You say "you do not use or rely on your hearing alone," and yet you're asking me to rely on my sight alone? After admitting that we use multiple senses to safely navigate the roads?! How does that even begin to make sense?

      And speaking of lame arguments, you claim I can't hear cars coming because I'm in a noisy part of town? Which part would that be? Twin peaks? Golden Gate Park? SOMA? The Sunset? I bike all over the city, so to claim that my problem is directly related to the noise level of the part of the city I happen to be in is ludicrous. Almost as ludicrous as claiming that I can't hear normal cars coming any better than hybrids when I very clearly can. Normal cars are easier to hear. They are noisier. That's a fact no matter what part of the city I happen to be in.

    • 3 years ago
  • drewsuf721
    • 0
      drewsuf721  
    • stopnoise:

      I have the same problem skateboarding around. I was thinking of getting some bells or a whistle to alert people of my presence, because damn, it can be annoying knowing someone can't hear you coming. You see the accident coming as they are visibly oblivious.

    • 3 years ago
  • Stradius
    • 0
      Stradius  

    • I have to admit those things are deadly quiet. I love it though. Perhaps we need to have the reverse mode beeping? I think I'd rather have them add collision detection alarms rather than FORCE them to be noisy....

      Driving a hybrid sometimes feels as fun as a bicycle with walls. You can actually hear the world around you when you drive.

    • 3 years ago
  • shroomfairy
    • 0
      shroomfairy  

    • I like that they are quiet! I'm sure plenty of people are going to be booming down the road listening to their radio anyway. Why add more noise?

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  

    • "It's not just blind pedestrians who have to worry. An ongoing study from the University of California at Riverside has found that even slow-moving hybrids can get 40 percent closer to any pedestrian than a combustion-engine car before they are detected. This is also a problem for bicyclists, who rely on their hearing to place traffic around them -- far more than many realize."

      As a cyclist and a pedestrian, I've always hated hybrid and electric vehicles specifically because they're too quiet. I don't want a fast, thousand-pound vehicle to be able to sneak up behind me. Not all noise is bad.

    • 3 years ago
  • meligrosa
    • 0
      meligrosa  

    • I agree, I almost get hit by one everyday(both as a biker and as a pedestrian), pulling outta their garage or from a steep hill.
      - thats when I ring my FREEEE bell (LOL)

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
  • meligrosa
  • Allsunday
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