I am ashamed of America

I know that this won't actually help but.....

Why exactly is polygamy against the Law?

and bigamy meaning "2 married" does't really make sense if you look at what it really means versus what it has come to mean.

Explain to me Please why having more that 2 parents is bad -- and well we have lots of people that are the products of various divorces and re-marriages more or less meaning that the children are ofspring of a Polygamious relationship.

casandrakumsung

No The United States of America is not a democracy - The founding fathers made sure of that!!

Its a Representitive Republic - They were keenly aware of the problems of democracy leading to the tyrany of the Majority and definitlly didn't want that to happen.

There has never been a True Communist country yet.

And BTW ... you forgot to mention that the Hittler taged the homesexuals with a pink triangle as far as selection goes pink triangles were lower in the pecking order than the yellow stars and were often sent to the "showers" first

Those who don't bother to study history are doomed to repeat it

This is a democracy, majority rules. The courts are there to override the majority.

Name calling and insulting people who disagree with you is UnAmerican and childish.

If you do not want a majority rule then vote it out or go to a communist country like Cuba or Russia. (There are no by the book communist countries it was tried and did not work).

One has to vote with ones conscience, even if it is wrong to some. I would support your vote event if I disagreed with it and not name call.

PS using Hitler as an comparison to Prop 9 is sick. He cleared the prisons, mental institutions, and orphanages into the gas chambers.

He killed babies born to the master race Gestapo, if they were defective.

He killed all races, gypsies and religions not just the Jews, that were not his "race".

More non Jews died in the gas chambers than Jews!

This is the problem of direct democracy, the tyranny of the majority.

I'm probably going to get into trouble for this, but why does the state have be involved with marriage anyway? Why can't people be free to form a contract without any hinderance from the state? Why do I need a permit to get married?

Church membership is voluntary, so why force membership standards on non members?

For the Church, marriage is a sacrament. It doesn't need the state to sanctify it, nor does the Church have any authority over non-members and their unions. It seems to me that the Church and State have no authority over how people want to live in a contractual agreement.

Augustine and Thomas Aquinas and especially the early Christians did NOT believe that the state could legislate virtue. Christians and others should remember that legalization does not mean approval. Free will is fundamental in understanding Christian theology. Whenever the Church or State has forgotten that, crimes against humanity and conscience have occurred. The Church has every right to proclaim the Gospel and teach her followers but does not have the right to dictate how non-members may live. The Church may give an opinion; non-members may ignore it. The State should also butt out and allow people to live and make agreements as they please if they do no harm to others (and being offended is NOT being harmed!).

Re: "They're going to force-feed gay porn to my kindergartner" (OR something close to that effect...)

Once again, another blind regurgitation of a Yes On 8 talking point which is untrue, fear-mongering, non-pertinent and non-factual.

Do these people really believe that treating people equally under the law has anything to do with teaching young children about gay anything?

Please.

I have one observation that I have as yet not stated so here it goes.

It seems to me that the people who favored this amendment are AFRAID of someting I'm not sure exactlly what the FEAR but the certianally FEAR something.

I have messaged many of them asking them what it is that they FEAR will happen to them and no one has responded in any sort of respectful way.

I have a FEAR that this being added to the constitution will abridge my LIBERTY

Liberty is the most important part of the United States with out it everything is lost.

I find it amazing that this blatant lie that legalizing gay marriage would make homosexuality taught in schools continues to spread. How do people believe something so obviously false, something that has been proven false time and time again?

A story I read comes to mind, of the teacher's group that came out and denounced the Prop 8 ads, saying they and no other teachers were teaching same-sex marriage or homosexuality to kids, denounced it as a lie.

A Pop 8 supporting mother's response? She took her daughter out of school in protest, because they WEREN'T doing what the liars said was happening to her children.

That doesn't even make sense!

What is wrong with people?

And I'm sorry, telling someone to get out of the country because they don't agree with or have any respect for un-Constitutional, un-American stripping of rights is downright dumb. The Constitution governs us, not the majority. I don't really remember anything in the Constitution saying that the majority got to take away guaranteed rights.

Or is that part only taught in Christian homeschooled lessons?

PoisonTheMonkey asked about Hitler quotes, and there's one that's relevant to persecution of all the groups of people, including gays, that Stalin pursued. Between them, Lenin and Trotsky had created and instituted the idea of using concentration camps as centres of extermination for class enemies.
Stalin went on to enlarge those camps in a manner that might have even exceeded Lenin and Trotsky's most ambitious dreams. Tens of millions of people were either worked to death, starved to death or simply murdered in the Soviet concentration camps.
In speaking of Stalin and his accomplishments in the Soviet Union, Adolph Hilter made the perfect summation of the man. He said, "Stalin is a beast, but he is a beast on a grand scale." Not a bad line that!

There's a good point made here about Hitler by PoisonTheMonkey in the original post. He deemed gays degenerates and launched a vicious persecution of them. He was not the only one. One thing that most totalitarian tyrants have in common has been their demonization of gay people.
Tsarist Russia had similar laws criminalizing homosexuality as most Western countries had. As often as not, if the behaviour was private, it was ignored. When the Soviets came to power, and got around to writing their own laws on sexual behaviour, all that changed. Gays were rounded up, along with other class enemies, and sent to concentration camps to be worked to death. One of the reasons that the great bisexual Russian poet Essenin killed himself was his depression over all his gay friends being arrested and put in concentration camps.
Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il-Sung and Ho Chi Minh all had a hatred of homosexuals and persecuted them. Today Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe continues their tradition of hate and bigotry. All of these people, along with Adolph Hitler, would have been staunch supporters of Proposition 8 if they could have been. It fits right in with their respective political philosophies.

Ironic that this very article is 50% red, 50% green (BLUE?)... Sad. Even current has plenty of stupid bible-thumping bigots...

Great post.

It's the civil rights era all over again. Lame. People are so damn brainwashed.
Your God doesn't want you to hate other people, I promise.

WAKE THE F*CK UP.

Lol Casandra. Take your misinformed anti-socialist and communist bitching somewhere else, please, and get informed. Then you'll realize how ridiculous it is of you to say that in a Communist society you don't get to vote. Inform yourself, please. ;)

Because Communism cannot be a dictatorship, it cannot be totalitarian, by its very definition it must be ruled by all the workers, which makes it a democracy of some sort. Go and learn more, then bitch.

well now, I'm not about to call names.. all I say is if the majority votes against it, then so be it.

In reality though it boils down to an argument over the definition of a word. They have been offered legal equality through civil unions and they were not satisfied with that and really that is just stupid!

Accept the fact that majority rules or get out of the US!

I don't know that I necessarily hate the haters, it is more of the disdain that I feel for what they incite and the damage they do to the recipients.

Generally, further distaste comes when they invoke God into the equation. They pick and choose which fragment of scripture they want and then use it to pummel their prey.

The trouble with most scripture is that it comes from a book that has been putrefied by the agendas and manipulations instilled within the pages down through time by man, not God.

The initial question is whether or not the book was of God to begin with. I whole heartedly believe it was written about god but from various people from different periods of time.

So does God or some higher entity exist? In my mind and belief, yes! Does God hate Gays, or Blacks, or Jews, or Whites, or any other divisions of humankind? No!

For those of you who don't believe in a God, then all the better. Why is it better? Well that substantiates that all hatred and ill will is humankind based.

However, if you look back far enough you will more than likely find evidence to the fact those haters ancestral trail will be connected to some bigoted or biased religion. Their hatred was spawned by this religion and handed from generation to generation.

Thus the ills of man and their personal decisions to hate or deprive due to some difference they deem to be less or undesirable in fact comes from man.

What is interesting is that PoisonTheMonkey is a socialist, look at her profile.

She would have the world be socialists or a communism. In her world she would not exist because there is no voting or opinions of the people or a constitution in a communists world, and people like her are locked up.

Communism failed because absolute power corrupts absolutely and humans need incentive being equal is not enough for most.

Her utopian society can not exist with Humans, we have free will.

Obviously a antisocial personality filled with hate, just look at her posts.
.

You made my point clearer Casandra! What is the point of your fight and anger? Is it because you won't be awarded the title of "marriage", or are you trying to push it beyond reason? You are most likely seeking a redefinition of the word, but in doing that you are ushering in more discrimination by the religious right when you have already been given the legal equality of "civil unions'.

As I said there are bigger fish to fry, get over it and accept the fact that you are not actually being discriminated against, rather you are fighting over semantics... and that is ridiculous in the grand scheme of things!

Let us make a few things clear. First, if 100% of the people, voted Prop 8 would not have passed. That is simply do to lazy people who do not care, and California is not alone on that! I doubt any conservative idea would pass in the US if 100% voted!

Second "Right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence and not part of the US constitution so it is not a "right" only a suggestion and that has been found to be so in court. The founders might have meant the Declaration of Independence part of the US constitution but has found not to be.

Third. This was an election, if you do not like the idea of an election and do not like the people in this country maybe you should go to a country that does not have elections you would be happier there.

Insults, Hitler comparisons and name calling is childish and vindictive. Your letter was full of hate it was sick!

Intolerance of people that think differently than you is not American. I am sure you hate anyone that is not like you, I have meet many like you.

Tolerance is part of being in this country and you people are intolerant to what the majority vote for and are insulting the voting process.

Fourth: Most people in the US are Christians, marriage is a religious issue. Children are fiercely protected so it became an issue of protecting our children! I do not want my 6 year old kid taught homosexuality, she is too young to understand it and I do not want her confused and thinking it is a normal thing to be or do! This is a tough world for them as it is.

It has been shown that gays are not just happy with having equal rights. In California they have all the rights of marriage with a domestic partnerships just not the name Marriage, it was taken. They want to force acceptance of homosexuality and for it to be taught in schools as an alternative life style like getting a job with the fire department! (They lied in the adds when they said gay marriage is not taught in schools as they forced teaching gay marriage in Massachusetts. If they did not lie then it might not have passed.)

Do not blame the people blame the system!

PS: What is the big deal most marriages end up in divorce. Marriage is a legal document a financial contract created by the government, bankers and lawyers and the churches, it is nothing but a piece of paper and a WORD.

All in the name of Hope & Change...and of course, Yes We Can.

Well, I think the drug war is a far greater travesty against the American people. Especially for something as potentially beneficial to society as cannabis and hemp.

No, it doesn't seem right that a slim majority can decide over the rest, but our demockeracy is set-up that way. Would you think it right if the 46% of Americans who voted for McCain rose up and threw a fit because McCain didn't win? Of course not... why? Because that's how our government is set up. Majority rules.

I'm not saying that it's right to deny people to be legally married, but I don't think that the right to legal marriage is explicitly given to us in the constitution. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is as well as equal rights. But still, I personally have no issue with either gay marriage or someone who wants to kick back and enjoy a fatty, but until we get a majority of the public to accept that, we will just have to be content in our civil disobedience.

Personally I think marriage is just a word and from what I understand this "civil union" proposal gives people the same rights without the same verbage. My thought is, so what? Doesn't marriage really come down to a commitment between two people (and maybe their God if they have one). Why should this be such a huge deal? I mean go ahead, fight for equal title, but you should be content knowing they aren't directly interfering with your relationship itself. If it's that important to say you're "married", then go ahead and say it. The word only has the meaning you give to it...

I don't know if I'm making sense, but I think there are far greater issues than a homosexuals right to claim their union is a "marriage" instead of a "civil union." It seems petty for both sides of the argument....

challenges like these will make us stronger. Those who believe in equal rights are all going to have to ban together and stand united against the fight for equality. Fuck your god- this is NOT a moral issue, it is about EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL americans.

I don't think a slim majority should be able to take away the rights of anyone, ever. Our rights are protected under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, beyond that, people are free to vote on what they want.

An angry majority voting to strip the rights of those who have done nothing wrong defies our Constitution, which guarantees equal treatment under the law. The majority has, in the past, been in favor of unConstitutional policies like segregation and slavery, however, these things were obviously unConstitutional and there should never be a vote on things like that. Is democracy really people voting on how individuals can live their private lives? No, not really. (We're not a democracy, anyways, but meh).

And I think I've got every right to write such a scathing letter. ;) These people stripped the rights of innocent people. They do not deserve an ounce of respect.

I agree with kenny... as usual.

However, the majority rules even if it is by a slim margin. That is how democracy works, if you don't like it you can leave. I just don't think it's right to write such a scathing hate letter because something didn't pass. I mean, the public voted, the majority won..

I for one wish we could end this damn drug war and legalize cannabis and utilize hemp, but it hasn't happened yet. So for the time being I will wait patiently and do my best to inform and enlighten whomever I can.

Hating those who hate only leaves everyone pissed off.. be patient. There has been major advancements in both of our choice causes! Just be glad McCain didn't take the presidency or we'd both be waiting even longer!

Indeed...while America is patting itself on the back for being so "progressive" because it voted in a black president (how that was even an issue amazes me), another minority has found itself being shit on by the right wing.

I was very upset to hear about this..esp stopping homosexual couples from adopting in Arkansas i believe how can anyone try to attempt to decide for someone else who and what a real parent is......or who can and cannot get married..truly a sad day for progress. for G&Ls

Sometimes it's like we take two steps forward, and then one step backwards. I feel for the gay community and hope someday as humans we can just accept people for who they are. Such intolerance is unexceptable in a civil society.

Compiling a list of Hitler quotes. Having a bit of trouble, however. Any help would be appreciated, specifically the one that says something to the effect of "You can convince a population of anything if you use children" or some such.