Senate to middle class: drop dead

No true. The "free market" is paid for and manipulated. Go to any store and try to buy a quality, American made item. -Just Chinese knock-offs - sold at fantastically inflated prices.
Right now there's a wealth grab going on with all these crises and bailouts. Who do you think is going to own everything after the dust settles?
I could go on...

Has anybody in Washington told the panhandling corporate CEOs that THEY need to give up their millions in compensation if they want to get bailed out?

NO.

Everything is the fault of the workers. We'll just fire them. That will cut expenses and allow the CEOs to keep their jobs and big $$$.

The Unions have gotten comfortable wages and benefits for their members? That is what Unions are suppossed to do. Take away the benefits that the Unions have gained for their workers, and destroy the Unions and you make the US economy just like the economies of China or India. No employee rights or benefits. You take what we offer you, or you are out in the street. $1 an hour is very generous. So what if you starve to death.

I grew up in a small town where my parents had a business. It was a rule of the house that we bought what we needed from the other businesses in town. Even if it wasn't exactly what we wanted, or it cost more, we still bought from other businesses in town. "If we don't buy from them, they cann't buy from us."

For years, corporate upper management and piranahas have been lining their pockets with profits that they are making by closing factories in the US and shipping jobs overseas where they can pay workers poverty level wages. They can do it because there are no Unions to protect the workers.

People in the US have been MORE than happy to buy more and more junk because they think they are getting a bargain. They've been happy to sell out their friends and neighbors for a few cents everytime they buy something. Get rid of the Unions who look out for the workers, and no one will look out for workers----any workers.

The whole world is a small town now. What happens anywhere affects you here. Turn your back on those who need your help now----and one day when YOU need help, there won't be anyone there to help you.

crob80227, I agree with you completely except for your statement about Republicans being dumb. I would use the word "ignorant" instead of dumb. They have pulled the wool over the public's eyes for years. They have blatantly supported the wealthy and big business and suppressed what ever the big corporations wanted them too like environmental issues. Of course the voting public has given them their power also out of ignorance. People like the comedians, Rush and O'Rilley are no doubt pretty intelligent and that's what makes them dangerous. They know how to work the public and use drama to make people believe their rhetoric is valid instead of just baseless, dishonest, vicious attracts on every right wing individual and belief. It's show business. They won't stop attacking Obama and liberals even after being beaten in the polls because they have invested into too much of themselves and their destructive thinking. So I think these Republican comedians are smart and fanatical and dangerous to intelligent and ethical thinking. They aren't stupid. They are dangerously clever.

In my state we have a Nissan factory running and a Toyota factory (building Priuses no less) opening next year. I have no sympathy for the big three. Obama says we'll all have to sacrifice, I guess Michael Moore thinks that's everyone except the UAW. The free market always wins.

But if the Big Three start building more efficient cars, then gas consumption will decrease and therefore less money will be spent on the gas taxes and the national and state coffers will be left empty. So can the government effectively tell the manufacturers to go against the government's own interest??

this is pretty much how i feel about it. they need to be working on legislation to force modifications on bad home loans to stop further foreclosures.

Whether you like his methods or not, he sheds light on issues few news outlets will touch. And his ability to disseminate information cannot be overlooked. Of course, his offerings are slanted to his personal opinions than being presented objectively, but I can forgive this because of the content and nature of his work. Besides, nothing is perfect and I respect positive proactivity...

Perhaps it is time to storm the Bastille again.

"Let them eat cake." Marie Antoinette.

The people who get your tax money, put the red and blue shell-game up for you to pay attention to. There's only one party in washington: They take the money party.
We have government by corporate dictate. They give you wars that they need you to to pay for; they middleman our wealth to overseas countries.
They are treasonous, in fact.
Perhaps a temporary American citizen's council to grab them by the collar and have them return the money. Take over their investments, etc.
And new laws against manipulating government. Real laws to make the Constitution a reality again

Michael Moore isn't concerned about the middle class, he wants to give their tax dollars to the auto companies so that they can continue to pay union workers over average wages, health care, and pension benefits that the rest of us aren't eligible for, for doing work that obviously is not in any demand. How does that help the middle class? Moore is a hypocrite, during the campaign he railed on John McCain for suggesting we tax union workers health care benefits which the rest of us can't get, while simultaneously argueing for universal health care. So he wanted everyone to get health care, but the union workers to keep their own special benefit. Who's side is he on?

i love Michael. he always stirs up controversy

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers start building only cars and mass transit that reduce our dependency on oil.
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Only worthy sentence in that entire thing. I was liking it up until he backed Unions.

I believe in hearing what people have to say no matter how vile someone might think they are.

I heard what he had to say and I have to say that his first few thoughts were great. His idea about the poor unions is laughable. They are one of the main reasons the big three fail...the amount of money they get is ridiculous for what they do. Do you know what suffers when payments like that to union and those people in the union? Safety of the car, the way the car is built, the cheapness of the materials......wonder why Honda, Toyota don't have this problem? They don't pay that much money to those that work for them and they have better vehicles that actually last and past crash test.

Unions are a massive problem. They are a bully for what? Not for the greater goof of everyone....just the selfishness of those involved...or self involved.

"How to get people to vote against their interests and to really think against their interests is very clever. It's the cleverest ruling class that I have ever come across in history. It's been 200 years at it. It's superb." - Gore Vidal

Middle class to Michael Moore: drop dead

This excerpt sums it all up brilliantly:

"Yes, they could have given the loan for any of these reasons because, in the end, to lose our manufacturing infrastructure and throw 3 million people out of work would be a catastrophe.

But instead, the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America."

So if you've worked at a factory for 30 years (12hr days doing hard manual labor)....then you should cheerfully and joyfully take a $20/hour PAY CUT and slash you health benefits in half and slash your pension in half too? That's the brilliant economic plan the Republicans came up with?

Fuck you, Senate Republicans.

Or how about this: if you can find me a single Senate Republican that has EVER done a single day of manual labor in their lives...we'll agree to the pay cuts.

Safe bet because these asshats has NEVER worked in a factory a day in their lives and have no concept of what actual, real labor is. Fucking your secretary and playing golf 7 days a week in addition to 3 month "recesses" and fact finding missions to Hawaii paid for by lobbyists for $200,000 a year (not including bribes and kickbacks) isn't exactly "work" by any definition of the word. Getting up a 4am and working until 7pm doing physically demanding (and dangerous) manual labor IS fucking work. IM'ing the male underage Congressional pages? Not work. Getting blow jobs from Monica Lewinsky? Not work. Being a CEO and declaring, "Destroy the EV1 and bet everything on $80,000 Hummers! I'm gonna go play golf now. See ya!" is not work. Spending 12hrs a day on your feet in an assembly plant? That's work.

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And what about the mortgage crisis?

After WORKING for 25 years in a factory you are earning $35/hr (this is the real salaries of most union workers. $75/hr is made-up bullshit.)

So you buy a house with a mortgage you can afford on $35/hr.

Now some Senate Republicans (who, again, have never done a single day of actual manual labor in their lives) declare that the answer to the sweeping economic crisis in America is to LOWER THE WAGES OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS!

So everyone is broke in America and the Republican solution is to cut everyone's wages even more?

And if they did agree to that....now they can't afford their mortgages!

And now they can't afford their car payments or to purchase new cars.

Dear God in Heaven Republicans are the dumbest sons-o-bitches on planet earth!

CHUMP GALORE: AMERICA'S ELITE... IS IT FAIR ?
http://current.com/items/89619522/chump_galore_america_s_elite_is_it_fair.htm

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Justice Louis D. Brandeis (1856-1941) US Supreme Court Justice

It is call corporate take over. America is for sale and the federal reserve is doing a great job in destroying this country.
All you ZOMBIES out there keep shopping and eating crap food.
This is the JAVA generation fat and stupid.

autos these days are absolutely archaic. there is no excuse for them not to be taken off the market by now. it is a total disgrace to our nation and the world as a whole. already we are seeing foreign markets get the jump on alternative technology which by the way has been around for more than 50 years. I don't see why the Old Auto & Co hasn't been doing something about it. the end has been in sight for years and years and years, and yet nothing, no one has done anything about it. what ever happened to good 'ole fashioned American enginuity the kind where if there were a better way then it would be researched and developed into a fine tuned domestic product. now-a-days we've really got no choice but to turn to some other manufacturer outside of the country to strike a deal with fuel efficiency and petrol. in the words of my grandpa, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Alright, well, the way I see it is that if it is causing more problems than it happens to be solving then it is time for a change. In terms of the old Auto & Co I think that my grandpa said it best "ya can't teach an old dog new tricks". That's all too true when it comes to the big three who are about to turn over for the last time. The almost had a chance to do something right for a change when they introduced the electric car, however "almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades." It looks like this one blew up in their face. good riddance Old Auto & Co you've not only failed us but also yourselves. May all your corporate CEO's fly their planes into mountains or wreck under the sea for your arrogance. Thanks a lot for what you have done for us in propelling us towards an economic and environmental disaster. You really shot yourself in the foot on this one. forget cars, autos and petrol are obsolete. I like to ride my bicycle. I am going to ride my bike and propel myself towards my destination; a healthier lifestyle and a smaller carbon foot print.

He always does a great job of telling it like it is. I saw him on Larry Kings show a few weeks back saying he doesn't quit get why the right wingers hate him so much his films are always right. I guess the truth really does hurt.

Michael Moore states the bold faced truth. He's great.

I don't know if the senate is looking at the middle class in this decision so much as the overall mismanagement of the industry by the corporations.

I don't normally agree with Michael Moore, but on this issue I do agree.

We should have made the loans on the conditions that the new autos will use less gas or alternative fuels and emit less CO^2 to fight global warming, and leave the workers' salaries alone. Either that or no loans at all and let them issue more stocks and bonds to get the money they need.

Or the Federal government could have just ordered $30 billion in cars $10 billion from each company and used them as federal cars as long as they are fuel efficient and emit less CO^2.

Let the Japanese or European auto makers buy them out is another solution. If they cannot turn a profit, and don't have a business plan that works, why are we giving them more money? They should at least change their business plan to one that works before we loan them one cent.

I tried to down load or up load this from common dreams today but had the same problems I've been having for a couple of weeks, I'm glad somebody got this on.

Well there is always an up side. They could all move to Canada where we need skilled workers. Auto makers from around the world are also piling in. Although there are lay offs from the big 3. Toyota, Honda and VW are expanding. They don't have to worry about medical plans up here. Or the workers could retrain and move to Alberta.

The bail outs are a scam to start with. The auto workers have well deserved empathy. So do all of the rest of the growing number of unemployed. The most galling thing is that the CEOs and public servants (Sen.s that asked for the cuts) will be unaffected by the failing economy.

So much truth to his words.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda...but didn't.

Great post!!