With luck, you're vehemently against state-ordered abortion, right?
So how many abortions (6, 7, 8) would have been OK for you to protect the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a cent, you might have saved by ending her pregnancy?
There it is, sport. The state kills her kids before birth or, being Pro Life, you demand that she be allowed to have them with the Lord's blessings.
That's your choice.
Or you can just grouse. Which accomplishes what?
QCBUCKI and blissjunkie, agreed.
There's something about very damaged people, abused people, that makes them lose it completely when the chance to hit an undefended target, like the poor or harmless animals are near. Bush, blowing up frogs with firecrackers.
It's a test of character, of values, of humane over selfish wishes. It demonstrates a hidden desire to use cruelty as a form of personal compensation by ensuring that others suffer to the max for our own shortcomings and grief.
It is sickening to watch their responses morph into the kind of violent hatred we once associated only with nutcase Nazis and Communists.
It is truly weird, and it seems there is a lot of it on Current..
since most everyone here is complaining about their money helping receipents of welfare why aren't they more upset about the BILLIONS spent on a drug war that will never be won? and also since some of u say that welfare receipents are losers that must make our president a loser right? since his mother once recieved food stamps. ugh u hatemongers make me sick.
@Grapegrower....okay!! Very very good point. It would be swell if the high and mighty "TAXPAYERS" with their lofty, self appointed omnipotence in all things would read what you say. It is ludicrous for these losers, the real losers, not the welfare recipients, to pinpoint this single program that our taxes go to. Any of you know what actual % even goes to welfare?? Thought not. How about where the vast majority of the monies goes. HHmmm? Programs the government engages in that you haven't a clue about, NOR bother to investigate. Then we've the war $$$$$$$!!! If you are against the war, where's your whining now????? Please get smarter. Knowledge is power.
Welcome to the New America. Different from what's advertised, isn't it?
On these threads you can now read some of the worst thoughts of our worst citizens. Thoughts as hostile to human life as they are inflated with intense pride.
These appear to be highly unstable people suffering the same mentality that flourished in Communist China under Mao, Communist Russia under a series of pro-Stalin dictators, Fascist Italy under Mussolini, Nazi Germany under Hitler. A collection of self-appointed self righteous psychopaths\sociopaths perpetually outraged that the poor and sick, the disadvantaged, were not simply eliminated for the Original Sin of failing to be born cost\effective.
The connection between all these wackos is in their love of seemingly divine retribution. It isn't that bad luck can hammer just anyone or that slavery in any form is an abomination. That doesn't work for them. It must be that God, Historical or Economic Necessity, deemed such people surplus to need - on purpose. It didn't just happen, it had to happen.
By nature, not rationality, the unstable applaud any form of social abuse which hurts those they fear and hate. Shoot an unarmed man? He must have deserved it. Steal a family's income? They were weak and asked for it.
Ultimately the equally unhinged find each other and group behind a leader who goes public in support of Economic Cleansing. Targeted are groups the invisible wingnuts particularly dislike.
Whether it was China under the lunatics in the Red Guards, or here, the form their hatred takes is disproportionate anger and insipid jealousy.
Such people are offended that the abjectly poor are allowed to live at all In their view, poverty represents both an ideological and financial (though petty) personal inconvenience. To turn reality into ideological policy the disadvantaged are grouped together, regardless of whether they are or aren't "innocent."
Collectively all are blamed for their plight. They were lazy, they didn't seek opportunities, they didn't shape up. What follows that is supportive propaganda. It is unfair that there is any public cost associated with feeding the poor. Look how evil such people are - mothers with too many kids, fraudsters taking limos to pick up welfare payments.
Compared to a cabal of crooked CEOs and the politicians in their pockets the former are ignored while the poor are treated by far as the greater monsters. It is a sick joke.
The game continues with non-statistically verifiable and irrelevant catalogs of infractions. Samples are rolled out meant merely to defame an entire collection of families with no other stain in common than poverty.
What is also characteristic is that the ranks of the poor must be depicted as more determined to harm the Republic than all forms of Organized Crime and all the money laundering bankers, bent bureaucrats, fraudulent brokers, embezzling CEOs and warped politicians who actually, collectively, are responsible for the current meltdown. People justifiably anxious to deflect blame to a soft and undefended target. Small wonder their diatribes are presented as though they form a vanguard of fearless uber-patriots protecting America from the true enemy. A scape goat.
The level of insanity gets extreme quickly. People who would never go public that millions deserved to die from malicious neglect, (Jews, Ukrainians, Poles, Kulaks, Cambodians, Africans, and so on) are only too happy to applaud get tough action to punish the poor with further hardship for the misconduct of a few.
It's never allowed that some people who are poor also are crooked, it's that ALL poor people must fit into the same mould. Since all are guilty or wrecking the State therefore there is never too great a hardship the poor must suffer to compensate the hurt feelings of the advantaged..
Frankly, I preferred the sanity and balance of the Old America.
a- i got u. for a project in one of my class we were all studying welfare misconceptions. i wanted to know what everyone thought a "welfare" mom looked like so we closed our eyes and wrote down our first image. without fail, everyone who knew little about the system came up with a person who was not in any way reflective of them. (white women picked a black mom with 10 kids)
this is not true, but as a mass consciousness somehow we are led to believe that this is the welfare standard. i don't know if it's because people want to believe that someone else is lazy or if it is just the thinly veiled racism.
where are all the people angry as hell about the bailout money?
i think that was categorically the best response i have ever read regarding welfare or any other topic. you accurately covered so many bases in one response that you should save a copy of it in case you must re-explain yourself to someone else later.
This is a tough one. Think of how many pharma drugs are derived from opiates. It would lead to enough people "falling through the cracks". You want to hand out condoms with that check? That's another story.
A mom on wellfare that already has 6 kids and has 8 more, all from invitro, that's milking the teet until it's raw.
Remember, kids ARE USED to get free money and that is a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM.
Anyone interested in applying the same rules to all the CEOs and executives we lately put on the Bush Welfare Rolls?
Beyond a combination of gross stupidity and self-serving corruption, one unexplored reason these guys may have failed so completely is "pharmaceutical malfunction." A state of sustained overdose caused by excess abuse of the wrong medications.
So, any votes for fairly balancing the system in all directions? Up and down applying it equally?
Or will there just be the usual parade of cozy loopholes to perpetuate injustice by the selective application of rules downwards?
I so agree on the drug test. It's alright to spit out 10 kids and let the government pick up the tab. Wish I had the luxury of sitting on my a** all day do nothing and still get paid while my kids are unbathed and not taken care of.
lol... the guy that wrote that "opinion" seems like he was just mad @ social programs in general. so you have to pay taxes - GET OVER IT. Or move offshore.
what we need is a Real way for people on welfare to find meaningful work. (NOT THE SHIP THEM FROM YOUR KIDS WELFARE TO WORK CRAP)
in one of my classes we figured out that if the government invests in education (4 year) for aid recipients, the recipients pay it back with the taxes from their good jobs AND don't need aid anymore.
It's hard enough to find a job.....who wants to be caught in a shuffle with 20 million angry angry addicts that just got kicked off welfare! Take away the welfare and they will get hella motivated to be able to get high because they cant trade food stamps anymore!
Sure this is a great idea because surely only those folks with no vices should be allowed to eat in this country. What the Fuck...? Ever think about the people that are relying on those with addictions for support like children? They don't choose who they are borne to and if Rush can be addicted to Pharmaceuticals and make $40M a year, surely the US Government can give the same support to their citizens as we BLINDLY give to people of Iraq!
i agree i see third generation welfare families in my
town they can work like the rest of us.the system
needs total reform.we also need to look at
disability compensation also i know a few people
that get it that have no disability! the days of free
benifets are coming to an end and these people
dont know how to function without it
The Federal Government will never put issues like these on any ballot, because, thankfully, the Federal Government knows that Joe Sixpack is too stupid and self absorbed to even begin to understand poverty issues.
oh what did they mean by "welfare." Oh the tiny amount of money that pales in comparison to the "real welfare" that billion dollar corporations get in the name of subsidies. That "welfare" amounts to far more free money than the welfare that gives free cheese! Why, are we also holding these corporate execs accountable for their prostitution, expensive vacations and all the cocaine they snort with or without a presciption.? Read 'upside-down welfare"
I agree with the proposed drug testing. It should be a requirement. If you want welfare, and you can't seem to get a job and support your nifty little creations, you should have to go through the same process you would getting employed.
On a further note, I agree with the birth control requirement. Failure to plan means a plan for failure. Couples and women with an above-average number of children should be required to seek counseling if they can't take birth control pills. And for the record, the number you go in with should be the number you go out with, meaning that if you conceive more children while on welfare, it should be taken away. I'm not going to pay your way because you're an irresponsible person or couple.
how would you like to get a letter in the mail that states something like the following:
"Our records indicate the amount of taxes paid by your household for year 2008 does not meet the minimum requirement for you to bear one child in 2009. You have now been summoned to appear before XXX state court on such-and-such date to receive your contraceptive injection. Failure to appear to XXX state court by 08:00 AM on such-and-such date will result in fines and/or arrest."
the suggestion that those receiving welfare should be subject to drug tests and contraception opens a whole pandora's box of civil rights infringements. the paragraph above illustrates how easy it would be for everyone's rights to be affected by that logic. this is discrimination based on social class and income. if you were the commenter above who works full time but relies on welfare for assistance with child rearing costs, should you not be able to have a toke every once in a while? oh wait, she can just drink some booze -- that'll be better. pretty soon, those 'inferiors' won't be allowed to buy other 'luxury' items, such as cars or dishwashers, because, after all, they should work for the money for those 'luxuries', right?
OK, since current is determined to eat my comments, it's been 2 pieces, one hour wasted, here's the substance.
Stop whining, taxpayers. Half the single welfare moms were abandoned by the man who helped make the baby.
Insurance companies will cover Viagra, BUT not BIRTH CONTROL
You are next
Got diabetes? Overweight? History of asthma to cancer in family?How is your blood sugar / Smoke? Do drugs?
Employers are already testing their employees for even NICOTINE consumed at home, after work. Alcohol, better not. that shows up too.
You see, just as you are so indignant about "paying" for "losers", your Boss PAYS YOUR HEALTHCARE duh!!
Yes it's legal. Don't like it? Go away!!
Big Brother is suiting up waiting for you to allow this pilfering of our right to privacy to vanish. And YOU are blind to it..........
doesn't anyone else think this impedes on a few civil rights? admitly there r some people who abuse the system. but most people do not want 2 be on welfare. personally i can't afford insurance for my son working as a receptionist(making minimum wage) and insurance is not offered at my workplace. it hurts my pride to accept welfare. hasn't anyone else on here been in a bad place and needed some help? what about all the people losing their jobs now? maybe u should all stop looking down ur noses and ask how we can give the peole on welfare more oppurtunity.
You are right. There are a lot of people who can't feel good about themselves without taking a crap on someone less fortunate. We call them Republicans, and they are out of power and fading fast. Best wishes!
how about the fact that when I pay 15000 a year in taxes that takes away my civil rights to keep my money. you people think we should support the world and everyone in it. well get a job making billions and give it all away. I prefer to keep the money I make
I have nothing wrong with people who smoke pot, but if you're on welfare , then that money should be spent on everything else BUT pot. Perhaps they should make women recieve a depo injection before they pick up their check, so they stop having kids. Or maybe the welfare people should be spending their money for them, paying their rent and bills, instead of handing money over.
though i semi-agree with the logic behind this, i steadily stand against laws based on substance use. and though i feel that meth, heroin, and other 'hard' drugs are different from cannabis, i take the libertarian approach to substance use -- legalize it all, tax the shit out of it, and then we won't need to worry if welfare recipients are using. 1 - they won't be able to afford it, and 2 - we'll be making any welfare money they spend on drugs right back into the system.
Seriously. How about we institute drug testing for all members of society who are making over $250,000 a year? If you're making that much money, you must be doing something really important, and we need to make sure you're not fucked up all the time while doing it.
the only TV i can get out here is satellite. i don't have a choice. no cable, no antenna reception (and i've tried one of those bullshit 90 mile antennas). i HAVE to have satellite if i am to receive emergency information during a disaster.
While I agree that welfare system needs more checks and balances to ensure that the subsidies are in fact helping to mobilize those experiencing hardship and not simply enabling cyclical behavior, I think that mandating these kinds of tests might prove to be a legislative slippery slope. Also, in the course of civil liberties, we as Americans have been rewarded more freedoms over time. Drugs are illegal, but an overwhelming number of adults use them recreationally, including well-intentioned, highly-performing members of the upper middle class.
If you want to guarantee that social subsidy is effective... why not have more caseworkers or state mechanisms in place to guarantee that there are steps in place between welfare support and solidifying a decently waged job?
There sure are a lot of facists out there! what about every persons right to self determination? If away from a job and you are not a danger to society you should be able to do whatever the hell you want! To the persom who said give them a DNA test: What if you were forced to take one? You'd be the first one screaming about your civil rights! Why is it that after 8 years of the scumbag Bush you are all convinced that you or anyone should give up their right to self determination,to make their own choices, even if we don't agree with the choice made? Why is it that the right to self determination is being allowed to be taken away because you don't agree with it? well I say to all you facist lifestyle police If you try to take away someones right to self determination then you are a liberal nazi a deserve the peoples justice!
fuck that i smoke weed i dont have any problem with anyone doing any drugs as long as they maintain employment and dont suck money out of my pocket. if you need welfare and public assistance you need to be drug free. i aint paying for anyones drugs but mine.
The state of Hawai’i should require this in Hawai'i Legislation so all of the people on welfare are actually not drug dealers and losers (nothing against the people of Hawai’i), we have a very high poverty, low-income state thanks to the White American Government, who stole the Hawaiians Land, Culture, Government, and Language.
Thanks to you fucking dumb Americans this is what lead to it. America corrupted the world thanks. Prior to Green Harvest sponsored by you White Controlled Government, Green Harvest Marijuana was the hot ticket in town, and thanks to Green Harvest more people in Hawai’i smoke crystal meth. White people should be banished to one country and see how it feels to ruining peoples lives.
Fuck yeah! They should do this with unemployment benefits as well. I'm tired of my neighbor getting her checks while she sits her ass down watching tv and getting high all day! You do that when you get a job!
I think birth control needs to be mandatory as well. If you can't afford to take care of what you have, how dare you bring more innocent life into this world?
The laws regarding drugs still need to be reformed though, then problems like this would fix themselves, because the responsible people would understand and not allow irresponsible people to play with things they can't handle.
In theory at least. To be honest, society is such a huge clusterf*ck these days, depending on which behavioral and genetic aspects of the cesspool you're addressing, the policy needs to be custom tailored damn near down to each specific individual.
"It makes you lethargic and unmotivated?" What propaganda ad did you read that in, eh? What if I said that alcohol "makes you kill other people while drunk driving?" People would respond, no no what are you talking about!? The answer is that some people make the terrible decision to drive under the influence of alcohol and are much more likely to be in a traffic accident. And you would probably defend alcohol by saying that most people DON'T become that intoxicated and DON'T make that bad decision. Well... exactly.
Some people become dependent on marijuana by believing that it is necessary for them to enjoy life, and because of their habit they can start to neglect their responsibilities. And some people can use marijuana responsibly and recreationally to unwind in the privacy of their home while still leading a productive life otherwise.
Please realize what an airhead you may sound like to the seemingly many pro-decriminalization people here when you make such an empty generalization.
The argument seems logical on the surface, but you have to think about the practical application. It turns out that drug test are way to easy to beat, especially if you know you are going to take one, unlike the random tests at work. What you'll get with this system is urine from the children of the drug users or similar sources, not anything beneficial. Basically, spend a lot of welfare money to slightly inconvenience someone who will cheat the system anyway.
Makes sense to me, however this also should mean that ALL job sites and insurance companies should require random drug testing to make it be more "fair". If that were the case, then I could see an amendment coming....I don't agree with forcing anyone to subject to birthcontrol when there are large amounts of people on welfare who are not there just to "milk the system". However there definitely are people who do and those who have many children to get more $, and those women/men who have had their children repeatedly taken away from them and pretty much force their children to be in and out of DHS custody for large periods of their lives should be sterilized and their children placed. This is a case by case basis and I am only commenting that DHS needs some overhauling.
Clownpuncher, that's by far the stupidest logic ever. Have you noticed how many homeless people are addicted to drugs? You don't have to have a lot of money to score crack, but paying for rehab is a whole different story. Some people have to hit rock bottom before they realize how much help they really need.
Actually, offering free rehab programs would probably help because it would be easier for them to go through the program. Seriously, I don't understand why you would be so against that idea.
I agree with Kate! Clownpuncher, you have no idea what you are talking about. Being addicted to drugs mean scrounging up enough each day to get your fix. Rehab is TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AT ONCE, even in some cases if you already have insurance... those two things have nothing in common pricewise. Hell, in inpatient rehab you get beds to sleep in, three meals a day, people watching over you.... damn, most homeless or people who have hit rock bottom would want that, right!? And why do you think they don't? Because they don't have insurance and they can't afford it. Think again before you make yourself look like an idiot by running your mouth with that B.S.
The people who support this no doubt think most welfare recipients are black. I was unaware that the hipsters would turn into sour fascists so much faster than the hippies did. I thought Current was a site that upped the ante for online discussion. This is another idea put forth and supported by people who do not work wit real people in tough situations. Until you get out there keep your bad ideas to yourself. Fox news is already covering this base
yup just keep on giving money to the losers that want to sit on their lazy ass a day long doing drugs and popping out kids one every nine months. that will help. get real man. these people who sit on welfare for more than 2 years are milking the system. screw them. its sink or swin baby. I dont work all my life so someone else doesnt have too.
I come from an area that is probably 90% white. It also happens to be one of the most impoverished areas in the country. People here have literally lived on welfare for generations. I would guess that 70% of these are addicted to some form of drug, the fact that we as a society pay for their fix is sad. White or black I don't care I shouldn't be paying for someones meth addiction.
Ahh the famous Racism card! I was wondering how long it would take until someone tried to use it!
This is all about personal responsibility! You don't think it makes perfect sense to ask someone to refrain from having children while trying to get back to financial stability? What's so wrong with that? How is it racist?
Hell... my financial situation currently sucks. So you know what? I'm not having kids!!! What will I do as soon as I get to some semblance of stability? I will probably have a kid... but for now and until things get better I'm exercising this thing called self control and holding off. I'm also not begging the government for a hand out. I'll just live off less and spend less on excess purchases and such.
Seriously... what the hell is wrong with this country when people can't be expected to think before they act...
So you are saying that because a person appears white they are less likely to be poor?
Perhaps the reason for the discrepancy in those numbers is due to the fact that there are more white people than black people and while there are probably similar numbers of impoverished people in each racial group there appear to be less white people that are poor? I'm just kinda guessing here...
If there were exactly as many black people in the US as white people and the numbers still sat at 25%/8% I would almost be convinced there was some conspiracy afoot. But since we know that the numbers aren't equal I can't just assume that it's due to skin color...
Perhaps height is a factor? Or freckles? Maybe hair color? Do you have the numbers on poor peoples eye colors? See where I'm going with this...
Well, Ok, let's look at Asians. Around 9% live in poverty.
There are less Asians than Blacks.
Skin color is different than eye color, height, and freckles because there is a racial identity attached to skin color. There is a "black" culture, there is no "freckled" culture or "short" culture. That's why those traits aren't a factor.
America has a long history of racism. It didn't just vanish. The civil rights movement wasn't that long ago. I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy, it's just how our society functions.
human pasta....Thats for sure. these losers that suck off the system for....sometimes generations. they raise their kids to learn the welfare system. that is their jobs in many cases. a year or 2 to get back on your feet no problem but 5 or 10 or in some cases 30 years or more. thats bullshit. I dont work so some other loser doesn't have too.
"Back on your feet"?
Some people are born poor and they're going to stay poor.
Capitalism requires a lower class.
The lower class would not be able to survive without welfare. The only option some people have is minimum wage.
You can't raise a family on minimum wage without some sort of assistance.
There are some people who milk the welfare system, but the people you should be pissed off at are corporate criminals, they are spending FAR MORE of you hard earned money.
what a insane way of thinking. so people born poor have no hope. how about the people who come to this country and it takes them only 5 years to own a business. what a liberal you are. donate your money to the poor then.
Are you serious? Take a minute and think... Going from poor to rich is NOT COMMON. Yes it happens, but it's unusual. I'm talking about what normally happens, you're talking about exceptions.
My point is that people TEND to stay in the socioeconomic class they were born into. Those people need assistance just to live and raise a family.
A kid grows up poor- can't afford an education- takes a low wage paying job- has kids- repeat... That's the reality. I wouldn't say they don't have any hope, but the odds are definitely stacked against them.
Thinking that poverty is a symptom of irresponsibility is an insane way of thinking.
I have had personal experience with the welfare system....my friends family has been on welfare since before her 24 year old sister was born, neither of her parents are working right now, and in the 6 years i have known here they never have. Her sister, who has also never had a job, has two children and is living in a three bedroom apartment with cable and a fully stocked fridge. My friend is attending a private university with tuition above 40,000 a year, and her parents just "bought" her a 08' dodge charger for her birthday. I have worked minimum wage jobs and lived on my own, and yes, its close to impossible, and yes, I have gone to the food bank before. While "born poor die poor" is often true, I don't think that this excludes you from working hard. I Know the minimum wage is rediculous to live on, and for those that make any attemp to work, assistance should be given. Do you think that my friend should have a brand new car? Your taxes bought it for her. This is what i mean. if you can't afford to buy food or pay your rent, you should NOT be spending what little money you have on drugs....this is irresponsible behavior. Drugs (as well as shiny new cars) are LUXURY items that everyone can go without. I know when my butt was in line at the food bank i most definetly didnt have any money to go buy a nice nugget of pot.....though I really would have liked to.
If you need foodstamps, you can't afford drugs. This should absolutley be a prerequisite to welfare, as well as copies of job applications or something similar. If someone needs a little help to get back on their feet I am more than willing to help you out, we all need help sometimes. But if you want to be a leech and suck off the system for years and years and do nothing, you can be homeless and starving, it's your own fault and I take no pity on you.