MTV Gets Vegatized

Yes, it's awful, but what is the difference between the way these animals are treated and the way we treat our own? And please, the caps isn't necessary.

IM NOT SAYING WE HAVE A PERFECT SYSTEM FOR OUR OWN ANIMALS BY ANY MEANS - I JUST FIND THERE MARKET WAY MORE BRUTAL AND ASTONISHING PERSONALLY. I WAS WATCHING ANTHONY BORDAIN AND IN SPAIN THEY GOT THE CHICKEN DRUNK - I DUG THAT METHOD - THE MOST HUMANE WAY I HAVE EVER SEEN AN ANIMAL KILLED. AS FAR AS MY CAPS - I AM LOUD - THIS IS ME - I FIND THEM EXTREMELY NECESSARY. :)

Fair enough regarding the caps, but I still don't see how they're anymore brutal than we are. It may seem that way since they exploit animals that are traditionally off-limits here, but our practices are no less severe.

It's much easier to bash another country than to look at what's happening on your own plate, isn't it, Estee?

first to * numinant- i just see it being a more severe and cruel place for animals- just my opinion- does it all suck - yes. i believe that's the bottom line. it all sux. i have no problems with these ads and im sure they will make sum kids change there diets for the better.

animalia - i obviously hit a nerve with you. and like i just said above you - it all sux. i am open minded and going to check that earthling movie out. as far as whats on my plate i think that's very presumptuous of you- you really don't know. i will tell you what i do know , when i saw a dog wagging its tail the whole time until they chained it to a fence and proceeded to rip his skin off from the back feet to the neck - while he was alive- scarred me for life. the screams i will never forget. like i said- it all sux - but i think it really sux to be an animal in china.

You didn't hit a nerve. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy. I can tell that you obviously eat meat or else you would have told me otherwise. It is annoying that you blatantly say "don't feel sorry for beef" as if the suffering of cows is any less important than that of dogs.

So, what's the difference between a cow having her skin ripped off and a dog having his skin ripped off? What about a chicken being boiled alive or a veal calf being tied to the ground so humans can steal his mother's milk or a pig in a tiny crate who is forced to breed again and again but never even able to turn around?

I am pointing out your speciesism. In suffering, a dog is a pig is a cow is a chicken.

SO I HIT ANOTHER NERVE. AS FAR AS WHATS OBVIOUS- YOUR EXTREMELY CLOSE MINDED AND PRESUMPTUOUS ABOUT MY DIET. WE HAVE NEVER HAD DINNER TOGETHER(DREAMING ABOUT THAT). YOU COME ACROSS ANGRY NOT PASSIONATE ABOUT YOUR BELIEFS. YOU REALLY DONT KNOW MY STANCE AND I DONT THINK YOU REALLY CARE - I JUST THINK ALL YOU CARE ABOUT OR @ LEAST HOW IT COMES ACROSS TO ME- IS THAT YOU JUST WANT TO BE HEARD AND LISTENED TOO THEN CHALLENGED. AS FAR AS ANYTHING ELSE YOUR UNINTERESTED. SEE I DONT PUSH MY LIFESTYLE ON OTHER PEOPLE. I PUT MY 2-3 CENTS IN AND HOPE SOMEONE CAN RELATE. ITS NOT MY JOB NOR MISSION TO PUSH BELIEFS- JUST IDEAS AND OPINIONS. PUBLIC FORUMS AREN'T PERSONAL SO BREATHE DEEP. AS FAR AS PEOPLE STEALING PIGS AND OTHER FARM ANIMALS FROM THERE MOTHERS - THIS IS NOT NEW- PEOPLE ALSO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE AND CHILDREN- THAT SUX TO. WHOLE OTHER SUBJECT THOUGH. SO THERE WE ARE. AND LET ME SAY LIKE I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY- IT ALL SUX. HOPE THE ADS DO CHANGE THE DIETS OF SOME OF OUR FUTURE- THAT WOULD BE THE GOOD IN ALL OF THIS SHIT.

So, since I am so presumptuous... what do you eat?

Fish is meat and you already mention that here. So, how am I being presumptuous? You don't like that I am calling you out and making you face responsibility for your own actions. You can blame countries across the globe all you want but until you take care fo your OWN actions, things aren't going to change for animals.

If I protested the dog trade in China with a dog fur coat on, would anyone take me seriously? That's what you are doing. You contribute to animal cruelty then call out others who do it as if they are worse than you.

I don't understand why you are calling me pushing and angry when you are the one typing in all caps, getting all butt-hurt about everything I say, and PUSHING that no one should care about the animals in the farming industry, only China.

Take a look at the projection going on here. And please, take a look at your plate.

I ALLWAYS TYPE IN CAPS - IM LOUD(BUT IM SURE U KNOW THAT SINCE IT SEEMS YOUR STALKING ME- LOOKING @ ALL MY POSTS AHAHAHAHAH). WHEN I REPONDED AND DIDNT HAVE MY CAPS ON ONE TIME- I WAS TIRED(QUIET TIME), MY BUTT FEELS AWESOME THANKS FOR CARING. LOOK I DONT GET MAD @ PEOPLE THROUGH A COMPUTER, IM ACTUALLY LAUGHING. I THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH ENERGY FOR BOTH OF US TO CHANGE THE WORLD AND I DO LOVE YOUR PASSION. YOU FAILED TO MENTION I DID SAY" ITS ALL WRONG" OVER AND OVER- WHICH TELLS ME YOUR NOT REALLY READING. SO GET OFF THE COMPUTER- AND GO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. YOU SEEM LIKE THE PERFECT PERSON FOR THE MISSION. OH AND THEY DO SELL THOSE DOG COATS @ BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY IF YOU DO WANNA PICK ONE UP. IF YOUR FROM CHINA AND YOU TOOK OFFENSE- CHANGE YOUR MARKETS. MY PLATE AND I WISH YOUR CRAZY ASS THE BEST :) REALLY. IM SURE YOU HAVE LOTS TO SAY ABOUT IT.

Nice job avoiding all of my questions.

I TOOK A PAGE OUT OF YOUR BOOK :)

Uhhhh... good come back?

Here, I promise not to post after this. That way, the last word is yours. Be my guest.

First of all, cow skin is a fraction of an inch thick. Watch a cow being skinned sometime. Cattle prods are designed to be painful. People in the cattle trade claim that they're not of course, but there's no evidence, only rationalization.

I'm not sure how you can claim to know what a calve feels. It may very well be true that a calve, instantly deprived of its mother might not remember her without being able to forge a bond with her, but the same is likely true of human infants.

Human slavery is a tragedy, to be sure, but most people don't directly support it. On the other hand, you are a patron of animal slavery. You can try to divert attention away from it with other 'causes,' but it's irrelevant. This is the issue being discussed.

Cow skin and cow hide are two different things, by the way. The evidence that it isn't painful is when I smack a steer as hard as I can on it's ass, it doesn't react at all. It keeps on chewing it's curd. When you hit it with a cattle prod, it kind of lazily looks at you and then decides maybe it should walk very slowly forward. Whereas people claiming they hurt rationalize that line of thought by saying "well it would hurt me". Wear a thick leather jacket, weigh several hundred pounds, have thick course hair and a cow's nervous system, then maybe you can compare. Yeah it 'hurts', but only enough to get them to notice you and to get them moving forward, like a slap on the ass.

And I'm not claiming to know what a calf feels, I'm claiming to know that they don't have the brain capacity to remember specific details about their childhood. They are not human. The thing that gives us our emotions, intelligence, and ability to catalog information is our complex nervous system and large brains.

I'm not advocating cruelty to cows, but there is a limit to what 'cruelty' is to an animal. Torture is cruel. Overfeeding is cruel. Overcrowding is cruel. Feeding a cow another cow is cruel. Maybe we should focus on THOSE issues in the meat industry rather than whether they get separated from their mothers and prodded every now and then?

How so?

Estee, have you ever seen where beef comes from? The dogs and cows suffer the same. You should check out the movie "Earthlings".

Explain.

Well that justifies everything. Debate over.

hahahahaahahahahahhah :) thank u for sharing. i like fish :)

Um, since when are humans smart enough to know when they're dead? Perhaps I should eat you for that inane comment.

And you can most definitely help save the world with a vegan diet as factory farming is one of the main culprits of global warming.

And how are animal rights and human rights mutually exclusive? I think you'll find that people in favor of animal rights are some of the most vocal regarding human rights as well.

If human intelligence is what you feel makes us morally superior to animals, at least fucking use it.

Kevin, have you ever met a chicken? I have. They are self-aware and they definitely suffer.

I buy used and sweatshop free clothes for the record and buy local and organic veggies as much as possible. Even so, you can try looking for the ethical inconsistencies in others when really, the fact is you are trying to hide from your own.

As for your "cruelty-free" meat, you should give this site a try: http://www.humanemyth.org

numinant - by 'not smart enough to know they are dead' I was specifically referring to the article I linked to and mentioned in the same sentence. To clarify, I meant that if you remove a chicken's brain from their body, they can survive. I was using it as an example of the cognitive ability of a chicken to recognize that it is being mistreated.

You do not help save the world on a vegan diet, you just make yourself feel better. That's fine, you aren't contributing to something you see as an evil. But the meat industry is not going to change because of it. Political pressure and strict regulations will help. You will never, NEVER abolish the meat industry. But you can help improve the way livestock animals are treated when they are alive through activism and voting power. My problem is with people who think they can help these animals simply by shoving a vegan diet down their friend's throats and calling them murderers.

Animilia - I have met chickens. Lots of chickens. I worked at a stock show for several years. While yes, they are, by definition, 'self aware' (IE: alive), I doubt their ability to recognize cruelty as defined by many anti-meat websites.

Also, the falsehoods and hyperbole on that website defeat the purpose. They offer no explanation of the anatomy of the animals in question and rely completely on anthropomorphizing them so we can relate. That's my problem with many animal rights websites, they don't offer facts. They attempt to sway people with puppy dog eyes and 'would YOU want this to happen to you?' rhetoric - and then finish of with a motto of 'go vegan', rather than 'influence legislature to have better regulations'. Again, the meat industry will NEVER be shut down, if you want to help livestock then you can't take this all or nothing stance.