California Lyme Disease Association

Ikeike ike-ike!

So you're GAY?

Remember, if you haven't been seduced you cannot be abandoned.

I just thought you were here to think about things and not doing a very good job of it.

Avery, avery, avery,

are you here to shut down anyone who wants to start a rational dialog? Talking points? You dont even read what i write, you just assume you know what i'm thinking and start blasting into me, you should be smart enough to realize that this much hate makes you look really dumb.

Good luck
love and kisses

ilikeike,

You seriously want to talk to people? Keep your mind open. Deal in depth with facts. Stop with the supposition and mindless, disjointed talking points. Do more research than you do now, because your presentations are shallow, superficial, ideological and like POX News, far more spin than substance..

But hey! Look. If you want to toss around fact-free context-free bullshit? That's way different! I won't discourage you. There are all kinds of people who will be impressed that in "65 there were only 61 cases [of Polio] in the usa. (the last case in '78)"

They won't have heard of Jonas Salk either. And who cares that he killed the disease and caused those numbers you quoted to even exist? They won't!

So there it is, know-nothings still are your safest conjugal target.

You might even get laid, not by anyone too bright, but it's a start. Otherwise, you're just going to have to mature somehow. It comes down to a perennial question.

"Keep bluffing and bullshitting, or learn new things for no apparent immediate gain?"

Number two really is the better deal. I can't promise you'll like yourself better, but people might notice more in you than there is at present. It's a kind of unexpected and unsolicited payback you get from actually knowing things.

Tough choice, isn't it? Ask yourself why.

Good luck!

averymoore,

as usual you seem to really need to get laid or something, i'm gonna find someone a little less angry and presuming to talk to. My last post was me trying to find common ground, guess i need to learn a little more online etiquette. Talk at ya later dude.

ilikeike,

...speaking of off topic.. My comments clearly are addressed to a question asked on this same thread. It may not be to your personal satisfaction that people (oops! such as your very own self!) ask questions and answer questions on the same thread - but it happens. Last time I checked it wasn't a crime, even if you think otherwise.

As to polio? Yes, I went to school with kids who had it. It may shock you, but the world did exist before 1965. Isn't that odd?

Polio went down all by itself? Could that have anything to do with intervention by a vaccine of Jonas Salk's making? Why would anyone want to think that was important? Let's look and see.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk

"Until 1955, when the Salk vaccine was introduced, polio was considered the most frightening public health problem of the postwar era. Annual epidemics kept getting worse and victims were usually children.

By 1952 it was killing more of them than any other communicable disease with over 57,000 cases reported that year. The "public reaction was to a plague," said historian William O'Neill. "Citizens of urban areas were to be terrified every summer when this frightful visitor returned." As a result, scientists were in a frantic race to find a cure.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt was the world's most recognized victim of the disease and founded the institute to fund and create a vaccine."
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57,000 dead kids, you think isn't very many? Tell their parents.

If you read H.L. Mencken you will learn that Baltimore and much of the South once was home to frequent outbreaks of --- Malaria. That too was before 1965 when, apparently, earth was formed and first inhabited by statisticians.

Imagine...

You write, somewhat obtusely, "Maybe you think we should engineer a disease that kills ticks?"

Do tell all us ignoramuses what would be wrong with engineering an affliction to detoxify these creatures? Hm? You know, an agent to kill the disease not the carrier? Doesn't fit into your scheme of proper things to do? So I guess when we get a headache the medicines we take are to kill us not attack the condition? Is that your view?

As to your proposal to bring back DDT? What a remarkably dumb straw man conjecture. It is supported by nothing I've said, or ever would say.

No one has suggested that eradicating another species is a good idea, but instead that applied science is being ignored from what it has done very well in the past. Knocking out diseases.

Otherwise your base argument comes down to this - Do Nothing. It's sooo safe!

For centuries we have heard this argument, theme and variation, as, " It's God's Will", "It is Written!", or in the more secular version, "Alas! It's always been this way!"

An argument in favor of perpetual ignorance and submission. I think that's an argument worth eradicating. Whether you like it or not.

Nice try. But remember first to do more honest research.

I thought this thread concerned lyme disease? I'm sure there are plenty of posts about heavy metal poisoning here. Lets try to stay on topic?

Avery,
Polio? (you must be wise with years indeed) In 1965 there were only 61 cases in the usa. (the last case in '78)
Maybe you think we should engineer a disease that kills ticks? Maybe we should bring back DDT since it worked so well for mosquitos? My point is, human efforts at eradicating a species for the good of man almost always if not always results in more harm than good. I suppose one exeption might be rats in plague afflicted areas. Can we agree on this point?

azulagua writes,

“Ras Menelik...I am wondering what you are saying about toxic heavy metals? I am wondering how this relates to me who is full of em???? “

I guess Canadians don't trust their politicians either. But somehow they goaded them to be tested for toxic contamination.

The Conservative government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper was dubious about the “wild claims” made by his opposition. Nor did he submit to being tested, but two members of his cabinet were.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/167787

“A report released yesterday by a Toronto-based environmental group showed the presence of about 50 chemicals in four politicians, including the federal health and environment ministers and the bicycle-riding leader of the New Democratic Party, Jack Layton.

The chemicals ranged from such well-known hazardous substances as arsenic and mercury to other compounds, such as pesticides, that can cause cancer, affect breathing and endanger the reproductive system. The tests looked for 103 chemicals in total.

Liberal environment critic John Godfrey tested positive for 55 of the chemicals, followed by Layton and [Conservative] Health Minister Tony Clement with 54 each, and embattled [Conservative] Environment Minister Rona Ambrose with 49.

Rick Smith of Environmental Defence, the group that persuaded the politicians to submit blood and urine samples in August, said all had higher levels of pollution in their bodies "across the board" than a small group of adults and children who took a similar test in 2006.”

The article published in 07, continues...

“Of the four, Ambrose, who introduced the Conservative government's plan to crack down on harmful chemicals last month, had the highest rate of arsenic in her blood.

Clement, responsible for the country's health policy, had the highest rate of PFCs (chemicals in such stick- and stain-resistant products as Teflon and Scotchgard), PCBs (heat-resistant chemicals used as coolants and lubricants in electrical equipment) and organochlorine pesticides such as DDT.

Layton's blood had the highest rate of a chemical compound made to ensure computer monitors and televisions are hard to burn. The chemical causes skin problems, nervous and immune system.”

Damn! If Canada is that bad - what's it like here? Anybody know?

Do tell.

ilikeike,

I'm going to assume you're pretty young and have never actually seen anyone suffering from polio, malaria, TB, smallpox, leprosy, or any number of diseases we've managed to thwart - with applied science.

For as long as this debate has raged (and the same goes with politics and crime) there are always "realists" who sigh and say,

"Be reasonable. It's always been this way."

Let's not. Let's put our brains to better use than making excuses, and instead proactively thwart ignorance to further advance human culture.

Where I agree with others on this thread is that the people who now control medical research do so merely as a business venture. They have ceased being medical professionals but have become money professionals. First comes profit - always. The sick? They are a "market" to be exploited.

Had the same mentality existed last century this is what you could expect from living in Baltimore or anywhere due south.

"Mencken grew up in Baltimore at a time when that port city was wracked with smallpox and malaria.

“We had to sleep under mosquito nets at night,” Mencken says (on my audiotape).. ""

Sound like something you want more of? That's exactly where we're headed. Highly profitable scientific negligence.

For medicines that "work", but prolong the disease, we get gouged. (Someone kindly explain the price we pay for Aspirin.) Medicines which prove to be insufficiently profitable? Too bad hospitalized patients. You lose. It's up to insurance clerks to decide whether you survive.

It is the worst of both worlds.

We have a corrupted system designed (once again!) to "bleed" the patient financially, and which tries, as sickinjersey points out, to obliterate researchers who question data manipulation and outright fraud by Big Pharma.

To be half-right people claim - 'well good research costs too much!' Then they forget to notice why.

Big Pharma has monopolized the industry, suckered the docs, fudged the stats, cooped the pols, and is in huge debt because of acquisitions. Who pays for all this? You do! Congratulations!

Nor frankly does any monopoly ever give anyone a break on prices - oligarchies are created with the express purposes of limiting competition and to fix prices.

But we wouldn't want to "fetter" our monopolies would we? That wouldn't be freedom....

I thought the government had immunity to liability under war research, development, and waging.

Basically you can't sue the government, isn't that true?

I grew up in a rural area and found the occasional tick crawling on me, but I always checked my skin right after being outside and discovered any hitchhikers before they attached themselves to me. Therefore,t hey don't bother me much. What does gross me out is how difficult it is to kill them. I tried to squish them with something to no avail. Their exoskeletons must be supernatural or something.

Ras Menelik...I am wondering what you are saying about toxic heavy metals? I am wondering how this relates to me who is full of em????

Anyone else old enough to remember when Lyme Disease was confined to the Atlantic coast?

Doubtless there are methods to eradicate this nuisance and no one should laugh at symptoms often mistaken and misdiagnosed as chronic fatigue. The harm it does to employees who get it is a disaster.

As this one spreads, and concentrates, the cost of dealing with a tide of new patients again will raise the question of - what in hell are our research universities and drug behemoths doing?

We can expect the usual whining from the we-have-no-money crop (but can afford a two front war costing trillions) The usual medicine is contra-indicated economists will continue to insist that there's insufficient cost\benefit. Let's let the market decide... Nothing personal. Go be sick somewhere else.

Doubtless more insurance companies will bail from funding victim treatment and tell them - "What's wrong with you! How could you be so reckless! You should know better than to wander outside where unlicensed, um ANIMALS, with insect-thingies on them, roam and loiter about!"

In the meantime - are we funding the science that could eradicate these pests? Anywhere?

If not, why not? Remind me. What is so bad about being proactive?

Pls advise.

Scary little blood sucking bastards; those ticks. Got to be careful out in the woods.

We have a lot of ticks in Virginia because they have too many deer and you cant hunt in the urban areas. The deer herd just keeps getting more and more overpopulated.

Her tick bite seems ok but damn this oak is movin...yikes!

Jersey gets alot of ticks and Lyme's also.My one buddy was sick for along time.Kelation was his medicine and it worked.

This isn't funny! My girl just found one on her after mushroom hunting. We both went back on the hill and now havee what seems like terminal poison oak. I have been calling it STP. Sexually transmitted poison oak.

Ticks suck!

Geez Louise! Can't the health department or somebody figure out how to get rid of these pests? Lyme disease is no laughing matter! This is very disturbing! Thanks for posting Ras!!