Is Sylvia Plath to blame for her son's death?
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- gnossos
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http://gn0ssos.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/nicholas-hughes-suicide/
February 11, 1963 - Sylvia Plath Hughes kills herself during London’s coldest winter in a century. Nicholas, just a baby, and Frieda, age 3, were asleep in the next room. Sylvia made sure they had milk at their bedsides before taking sleeping pills, sealing up the kitchen doors, turning on the stove, and gassing herself to death.March 23, 2009 - Dr. Nicholas F. Hughes, age 47, follows in his mother's footsteps 46 years later and hangs himself at his home in Alaska. Frieda reports he had suffered from depression for some time, though he had not inherited his mother's mania. This tragedy inspires the question: Is Sylvia Plath to blame for her son's death? Surely her own suicide had a powerful effect on him. Coline Covington of The First Post muses on the subject:
"Children whose parents have committed suicide - at no matter what age - tend to feel not only responsible for their parent's depression and ultimate suicide but also profoundly rejected by them.In short, the parent who kills herself is perceived by the child as not loving him enough to want to live."
It must also be noted that the Hughes-Plath children's step mother, Assia Wevill, also gassed herself in 1969, when Nicholas was 7 and Frieda was 9. Two mothers killing themselves the exact same way would be too much for many of us to handle. Perhaps Ted Hughes had this effect on women?
Further investigations into the Plath and Hughes family mental health history would have to be conducted to come to a definite conclusion. Aurelia Plath, Sylvia's mother, who died of natural causes in 1994, seemed stable enough. It would be especially helpful to know the mental state of Plath's surviving child, Frieda. In an interview by David Burges for Time, Frieda states that she was shocked to find out the truth of her mother's death at the age of 14 from a classmate. She also very truthfully tells us:
"You can analyze [my parents] as much as you like, but if you weren't actually the people themselves . . . It's interesting to me that people have been so interested in them."
Today, she is a successful writer, like her mother. Will she too become victim to her family's plague of suicidal depression? Probably not.
Burges: "If all this had happened to your mom now... do you think it would have resulted in her death? With modern pharmacology, could somebody have helped her?"
Hughes: "I think there's no doubt about that. The advancements in the past 30- or 40-odd years, are huge. I don't believe there's any way that that situation would have arisen now. She'd still be here."
Check out NYTime's Room for Debate on the subject: http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/why-the-plath-legacy-lives/
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- gnossos wrote this
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McCainiac
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I'm getting an idea for a new book. If some one writes it before I do, I won't be upset. The idea of the book is things you can do to make your suicide worthwhile. I'm sure you can come up with some ideas, eg., how about running into a burning building to see if you can rescue someone. Try to rob some gangbangers. Kill yourself in public for a cause or to protest against something. Be a hero when the odds are extremely high against your survival.
I've known a lot of suicides. When the mind is made up, it's almost innevitable. My brother-in-saw shot himself in the chest. It didn't kill him. He had a bitch for a wife and two wonderful kids. Now the fact that he was a great dad who loved his young children, and he didn't die from shooting himself, that was not enough to stop him. He reloaded his shotgun (that must have been extremely difficult), and shot himself again to finish the job. Some of the people I know that killed themselves didn't give off any clues that they had decided their fate. If you can't stop them, maybe they can help save another life or get a message across with some helpful ideas. And if you see anyone reading this book in earnest, they may be sending a signal that could lead to some intervention.
- 9 months ago
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McCainiac
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barbara3d
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There are people you pass every single day that plaster a smile on their face and yet are clinically depressed.
Depression has several theories of causation. Genetics, lack of being taught coping skills for hard times,circumstances for which they see " No Way Out". As a Hospice Nurse, we have had many and I believe there were three reasons. 1. They were ill either mentally or physically and could no longer face family giving up their lives to care for them. 2. Fear of a horrible death filled with pain, 3. Emtional pain and scars passed on from dysfunctional parents who were very selfish and did not put the welfare of their children above their own.I choose not to judge these people anymore.It used to seem like the last and most selfish act of someone.
I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family sitation. My mother was beautiful and seemed to be unable to 'make up her mind and was married 3 times. Unfortunately the first(My real father) was too young, the second was an abusive man and the third was a skirt chaser. Once the last marriage ended, she became a functional alcoholic. It amazed me how she could drink so much and yet still be bright and fresh at work the next day.Working a government job at that.
My brother never resolved all this in his mind and took to drugs to ease his pain. I simply made a decision as a young girl, " No way am I living like this when I get married and became successful in both personal relationships and career choice to help others. My life gave me a lot of empathy for animals and people (my mother gave away our beloved two dogs to strangers as a surprise one day because we didn't take good care of them! I can still see my brother at the window sobbing and begging to get them back to no avail.
I have had a few episodes of therapy, strived to be the "perfect" parent (which I found out there is no such thing. But I think my faith in God, humanity and helping others rather than focusing on my childhood was the key. This poor woman, its hard to judge and it really is unfathomalble to look into those loving and dependent on you for everything-eyes and then carry out her plan. I do think and know of many who wound out doing the same. Look at the Great Hemingway family....several committed suicide- Freddie Mac Executive....it is truly a disease where people see ""no way out" and feel that others would be better off without them. Very sad because most are really loved and have broken hearts forever. I used to say it was the ultimate shelfish act...part of me still believes that.
- 9 months ago
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barbara3d
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cyman01
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it is a very sad and ,I hate to say it, but selfish act. Sometimes the pain (emotional,psychological) can be soooo bad that people don't know how else to make it stop. What stops most people is the thought of what it does to those left behind.
- 9 months ago
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cyman01
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DiddilyScrumptious
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i am. i am. i am.
- 9 months ago
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DiddilyScrumptious
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lolitanimatronic
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Very cruel to openly blame poor, deceased Sylvia. There was probably some correlation, but more nature than nurture.
- 9 months ago
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lolitanimatronic
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cyman01
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it seems obvious that there are genetic pre-dispostions..not to say that individual wills cannot overcome,but patterns arise.....
- 9 months ago
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cyman01
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estee_arie
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cyman01:
yes- they most definitely can overcome , its just a daily battle for some people and can wear them down - mental illness is very hard because of the stress of feeling that no one understands.
- 9 months ago
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estee_arie
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estee_arie
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to add i believe that depression is genetic and can span through a whole family sometimes. my uncle killed himself and my mother i believe is by-polar along with my grandmother and myself. i think its a genetic chemical embalance, not just coincidence or the plain reaction to others suicide/death around us.
- 9 months ago
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estee_arie
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gnossos
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^ I agree. I was pretty into Sylvia Plath before I wrote a research paper on her for my English final. After reading her biographies, The Bell Jar, and doing extensive online research.... I don't really like her anymore. She's an interesting writer, but not such a great person.
I've dealt with depression and anxiety my whole life, so I can sympathize with her on that, but I just can't understand how she could be so selfish. If you research her enough, you'll find plenty of evidence to back up the idea that she was, quite frankly, a selfish, whiny, crybaby. I can't think of any other way to put it.
We can argue that she was insane all we want, but would we argue as much for a murderer? At least she wasn't hurting anyone but herself, directly...
- 9 months ago
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gnossos
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betruelarue
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For a parent to end their life is truly tragic. I think if people are at the end, and just cannot fathom another day of existence, that is their choice, as it was Sylvia Plath's.
Although, that parent is robbing their children of their lifeline, sealing their fates of sadness as they grow up. I understand depression as an emotion and an illness, but what a selfish final act, abandoning your children.
There is so much to live for everyday, especially with the joy of a child. :)
- 9 months ago
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betruelarue
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gnossos
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betruelarue: This comment has been removed.
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gnossos
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akamaial [removed]
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I am ever the optimist regarding my personal matters, and though I understand the aspects of manic depression, admittedly I really don't grasp how someone can be so dissolute about living that they make (rational in their mind) a choice to end their own life by their own volition....it is sad that many good and intelligent people make that final decision. Sadly, over the years I have lost a few good friends in that fashion, and they are missed to this day by family and friends.
- 9 months ago
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akamaial [removed]
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cztheday
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akamaial:
I would have guessed that you were an optimist, Ak. You have that kind of "knock me down, and I'll bounce right back up" reslience about you -- if so, you have been well and truly blessed.
Most of the people with whom I have spoken who have suffered depression to the point of making serious suicide attempts (i.e., not designed primarily to gain attention but really wanting to end their lives) simply want the feelings of utter hopelessness and despair to stop and have come to the point where they believe that those feelings will never stop or that the point where they might stop is so far into the future that living that long in so much pain is more than they can accept.
Because depression IS a biological disorder, many people's desperation is fueled by the fact that they can't reconcile how horribly they feel with any similarly-sized cause. So, for example, someone suffering a clinical depression ostensibly brought on by a divorce or the death of someone close to them might think to themselves that yes, such things should make them feel badly, but not THIS badly and not for this LONG -- not fully realizing that the event itself is no longer the cause of their suffering. Rather, the signals from the brain that had become dampened in response to the negative stimulus had essentially become "stuck" at that low level (or perhaps even declined further). But this inability for people to "will" themselves back to their usual disposition makes them feel terribly out-of-control of their own emotions.
This is why the condition can be so humiliating and difficult to explain to others. The person knows that their feelings of hopelessness and despair are probably not rational or logical -- at least in proportion to the cause(s) they can SEE. They see their own feelings of "I should be over that by now" reflected back at them by friends and family who ALSO don't understand, compounding their feelings of hopelessness. While consensus on WHY anti-depressants work is elusive, there can be no question that they have been a Godsend for millions and millions of people.
- 9 months ago
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cztheday
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cztheday
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I am persuaded that the vast majority of depressions are biological in nature, though quite often the biological state is induced by psychological trauma of some kind. But I doubt that we will see the kind of certainty most of us would like to see in this area for at least another 20 years...and perhaps much longer than that.
I am also persuaded that the percentage of all people who suffer the horrors of depression would "choose" to do so. They are not given a choice in the matter. And I would frankly be VERY surprised if Mr. Hughes did not inherit a biological predisposition toward depression from his mother (and possibly from his father as well). Somehow, some way and sometime (but not any time real soon) we will stop seeing this general tendency in our society to blame the victims of depression for their condition. They are not "weak-minded" nor are they "running away from their problems." In fact, if there is a poster "child" for depression, it is Mike Wallace, the long-time journalist whose most recent fame comes from the television news program "60 minutes." His titanic struggles with depression are well documented. Yet I would defy someone to find a person whose will and tenacity are STRONGER than those of Mr. Wallace. His is the TRUE face of depression. Few groups of people are as worthy of our compassion and understanding.
- 9 months ago
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cztheday
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gnossos
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cztheday:
Interesting, thanks for the comment. I didn't know about Mike Wallace.
- 9 months ago
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gnossos
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barbara3d
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cztheday:
Also, the brilliant Winston Churchill struggle with a bipolar disorder. When he was in his "down stage", he called it the 'black dog'. and sit in a dark room for days or weeks.I don't think they had treatment then either.
- 9 months ago
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barbara3d
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Kylsport
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Everyone is accountable for their own actions. This guy was obviously successful in terms of career. I for one grew up in a dysfunctional home, but didn't follow in the footsteps that some of my brother's did, doing drugs and committing crime. I chose to separate myself, sought out God, and went on to become a civil engineer, then a project manager and a video photographer. It doesn't stop there, by His Grace, I have become active in mentoring, active in my church and community and still be able to maintain a healthy lifestyle.
When things go wrong, most people try to put the blame on something else, rather than looking inward.
- 9 months ago
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Kylsport
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mandroid
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tragic but with proper pharmacology or maybe some weed this may have been avoided. there is undeniably a link between genetics and mental illness. however her son living to 47 had a chance to live his own life and make his own decisions. I'm sure depression was a factor steming from his mothers abandonment of him but he had the opportunity to get help pharmacological psycological or other I don't think it's anyones fault it's just a sad fact of life that people get tired of the news, the world and just want an end to their pain, emotional or otherwise.
- 9 months ago
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mandroid
