My Debate With A Socialist (Argument #2)

I am applaud that our society has devolved into such a state as to actually have to debate the evilness of state-controlled conditioning of our children (among other things) !

Didn't the images of Hitler's youth teach us ANYTHING about how evil it is to brainwash children???? My GOD!

While I am against the nationalization of industry,I am for the nationalization of medical care,because the AMA and the drug companies can not be trusted all they c are about is profit,I do believe that Medical care,housing,and education must be considered a right of every american! Now on to government: they only have the power because we,the people,allowed it too happen! we allowed the Patriot Act and all the other oppressive laws that followed it! we allowed the elite to steal our country and tear up the constitution! So the question is can we,the people make them give it back? No way will it happen! its too late! We let them take our country do you really think they will give it back now?

I consider myself a socialist which i believe is a middle ground between communism (which is inherently flawed because humans are instinctually greedy) and capitalism (which favors the rich over the poor, its feudalistic at its core!) now agree! or Ill get Jacobian on your ass!

I would much rather see a government controlled industry than an industry controlled government, like it seems to be now.

The nationalization of medical care. Galwayman, do you believe in Leprechauns, too? :) Ask any Canadian, and he will tell you how much he despises it- months to see a doctor- rationed out care- a real disaster. Re socialism- Germany experimented with it too, and it was called--- drumroll please! Nazism! (National Socialism) A police state. Except in our country, we won't be killing Jews, we will be (and have already started) persecution of Christians. Just the fact that there are actually people who consider socialism a good thing scares me- we shed blood by the bucket to kill those who lived by it- they were vicious thugs, psychopaths, racists, eugenicists, murderers of millions upon millions- and yet we have a lot of brainwashed marxist wanna be's telling us about " a kindler gentler socialism". I don't want to take up arms against these thugs, but if they continue to desecrate the US Constitution, there will be a call to arms. Debating with a socialist is like debating the Trinity with a Jehovah's Witness- they are so convinced of their moral superiority, it's a losing battle. They are brainwashed drones- not capable of forming rational ideas. And in Nazi Germany, they committed all sorts of mass murder and other atrocities- all in the name of - yes- socialism.

America should be a stockholder in every single corporation that operates within our borders and territories and interests. That way the corporations would have a responsibility to America.

Nobel Prize winning economist Milton Friedman, when writing about whether or not corporations should have a social responsibility, decreed that corporation's only responsibility is to its stockholders. That is why I say.....America should be a stockholder in every corporation. That way the corporations would have to be responsible to America and to its future and to its society.

@polochick... in the quoted article, if you could put "[sic]" after each grammatical or word usage error, it would almost make it easier to read, though it might add about 30% to the length of the article...

while that may pass for "communication" amongst today's "intellectuals," it's still crappy use of the Language and any editor worth their salt would have/should have gone over that several times before allowing it to see public display.

sorry...

Don't get me wrong Plusaf, I do not advocate freeloading at all. I believe in TANSTAAFL. But I also believe that we need to take care of our people and stop corporations from manipulating people and rolling the dice with our health and our pursuit of happiness on an individual basis.

We all pay for healthcare, its called the Medicare deduction. We all pay for retirement, its called the Social Security deduction. If the trust funds had not been raided, we would not be facing the coming demise of these systems. Why should people pay into a system their whole lives and not get any benefit from it? That is why the system needs to be expanded and fine tuned. We need to extend Medicare to everyone who wants it, we need to give people options and those that want to opt out of the system can put their money into private health savings accounts or retirement accounts. If they want to take their chances with casino Capitalism then that should be their right, but there needs to be a basic system that is available to all people regardless of where they are in the economic ladder.

And the government needs to pay back what it raided from the trust funds.

@jubal, i suppose the stupid bromide "let's agree to disagree" is operable here... it's a religious issue for most sides...

yes, the oil companies and some others ARE huge, and it's because they got into a business supplying a commodity that a whole shitload of people want because it's better in many ways than most alternatives.

a pound of batteries in an electric car is not within light-years of competition for a pound of gasoline in a hybrid's tank, yet "everyone wants a cheap electric car NOW."

not on this planet, yet, by any means.

yes, they're big, and have tons of money to throw around because, again, there's a huge market for their product... while many other industries do produce much higher profit percentages, but on much lower quantities of their product.

so, profit is bad and the customer is always getting screwed IF the volume is high and the product is wanted by lots of customers as the chosen alternative...

right.

and the government... any and all governments, so far, have a WONDERFUL track record of supporting the winners and avoiding the losers, right?

sure.

everyone should ride a train for tons of reasons... right? and there are virtually NO public transportation systems in ANY countries that can sustain their own existence without tax subsidies from other, PROFITABLE industries and taxpayers.

i think i heard that there IS ONE, somewhere, but i forget where it is... somewhere in the Far East, i think. do you know which one it is????

we do NOT have a "free market" here, nor is there almost any free market on earth today, so please don't use that straw man as an "argument," either. virtually all industries and economies are "adjusted" in one or dozens of ways through taxes, subsidies, benefits, quotas, and you-name-its.

don't think all of us are naive or stupid enough to buy into any assertion that "free markets don't work." they've never been allowed to exist. there are NO examples, other than some which come close.

the ones that come the closest to being "free markets" include markets like the world of semiconductor chips.

unions are nonexistent, for the most part, competition is cutthroat and subsidies and anti-dumping laws are visible and usually quickly brought to everyone's attention.

and that industry has brought you and me all of the electronic wizardry that lets me do what i'm doing right here at my keyboard.... and advancements come infinitely faster than in virtually any other industry.

the examples you give of corporations which have trampled human or economic rights are, to a "person" companies which have done so with the assistance or "look the other way" of their governments. every one.

you rail about human greed, then blame the companies for being "human" when governments leave the barn doors open for them to run through.

and you believe that the same governments that left the doors open to that crap should be the same organizations that can or should fix the same problems they created....

like the old definition of insanity...

but i'll never convince you that your "solutions" won't work. i can blog and rant about it until my carpals tunnel home, but since they're religious issues, unfazed by logic, all that's left to do is watch the scenarios unfold.

the hilarious thing is: i've been right in so many of MY predictions, and the response is usually "did you really say that?" or "it would have happened anyway," as if there were no cause and effect operating at all.

we'll see. but please note: if you're able to admit it, you "ways" HAVE been tried, and they've failed, but the religionists' response has always been, "well, that didn't work the way we predicted, but if we can only have MORE control, MORE power, MORE money to do it RIGHT, things will work out the way we predict they will.

right.
go on. try it.
good luck.
i'll be taking notes.
you won't ever admit defeat.
i predict THAT, too... :))))))))))))))))))))))))

Plusaf, you are a wise man and I have indeed read many of your pages on your website and your posts. You have a lot of insight into economic matters that I must admit, I do not have.

I know that there hasn't been truly free markets. I wish they would be free, free to fail when they have become a burden to the economy and the taxpayers. I don't believe in Bailouts.

However, I am interested in why you say that this is a religious issue. What do you mean by that? Are you inferring that I am making this a religious issue or that what I propose is religious in nature? I am confused.

The same could be said about Capitalism and its acolytes.

I have never said that I am right and you are wrong. But you have said that many, many times, and not just to me.

Its like the old saying "if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit."

Plusaf, not to be personally offensive, because we have a mutual author that we love in common, and to me his words are precious. But you are quite an arrogant person to have an entire website dedicated to your laws and ideas.

Haven't you ever heard of the "law of attraction"? Or the saying "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar?"

You speak mighty highly of yourself, and you make an awful lot of assumptions about me and other people based on a few words that they posted on a thread. Perhaps you need to not be so prophetic and ominous in your dealings with others here. For many it could be a turn off or a cue to tune out.

jubal - they all start off with great intentions. But think about what happens when one entity is given too much power and control? If it's a private company - monopoly, then break-up - sometimes forced. What about when it's the gov? Nothing - more power and more power, until you have N. Korea or USSR. They preached to be the most democratic nation in the world, while having only one name on any presidential ballot. Nice try - but I maintain that you have no practical knowledge - which makes your book knowledge absolete.. Sorry, there is no place for this shit in America - the sooner you people understand it - the less damage we will all have to undo...

speaking of undoing damage, its going to take years to get us out of the hole the last administration dug for us, they spent 8 yrs implementing your political beliefs =EPIC FAIL so sit down and shut up while intelligent folks pick up the pieces