Uninsured conservative town hall activist hurt in fight, asks for donations to help pay medical bill

As I understand, this healthcare plan is a supplement to existing plans. It makes no difference if he is on this plan or not, because he is fortunate enough to be able to afford the current overpriced plans.

Yet that's not the case with all people (I, for one, can't afford health insurance currently). Stop acting like the world as we know it will end under these SUPPLEMENTAL proposals.

You're free to continue to pay your overpriced premiums at private companies. Don't worry.

So you're stating that his plan is the same just more expensive?

Why is he wasting our tax money on that plan if his is cheaper?

The President and congress already
has a government run plan.

that is not the one they have in that bill. Why do we not just have theirs?

ahhhhhh, like deer in the headlights

Who says some won't? This option will be available to them too.

It isn't mandatory that you use the government plan. You can still buy high coverage plans. Most people that can't afford the private insurance at the moment will probably go with this plan though.

The government option isn't there to kill private insurers, but to force them to reform themselves or perish in a free market solution. If this were the eighties this would be the republican counter proposal to a single payer system, much like cap and trade was THEIR counter to the environmental regulations that the democrats wanted. Then it was a way for the market to solve the problem with minimal interference, now it's liberal policy that is going to destroy business and rob your pocketbooks.

I do have to give your side kudos for winning all the time though...even when they by all means shouldn't have any power.

I did not speak of private anything....

I also did not state a side.

also if you're assuming democrats are the good side...laughable. They are both bad sides. The sooner you realize that...the less ignorant you'll be.

The statement was simple. Why would the President and the Congress not be on the same program they are creating? Is it that horrible that they'd rather keep theirs?

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but they do use a private health Insurance. They just have a congressional HMO like entity in washington.

Did I ever say that I supported democrats? Didn't think so.I believe in direct democracy. Was it wrong for me to assume you were a republican? Yes, but I see you using similar buzzwords and tactics that have no actually basis in the actually discussion.(Here and elsewhere around the site)

Unless you go ask everyone in congress if they plan on dropping their health insurance provider to go to the new public plan, you should stop making it seem like they wont. Even if they do keep their insurers, why would that matter?

You make it sound like the government is busting down your door and making you buy their plan. Yes, you will have to get health insurance(just like you have to get auto insurance) but no one ever said it had to be the government plan.

None of the bills I have read are perfect, but it wont take perfect to do better than the system we have. Yes, the most likely bills to pass will cost a lot of money. If they work though, it's like replacing your current windows with energy efficient ones. It costs a lot of money up front, but they eventually pay themselves off.

What's disgusting is the misinformation that both sides of this stupid fight are handing out.

This is why liberals or those that agree with Obama are no better when they talk bitterly about those who find a problem with Obama's plan.

Miscommunication with the public is what is going on. Obama can sweet talk when he gives speeches but sweet taking and damage control words are bandaids to explanations and reasons as to what is said where.

If he set up a specific website that dealt with explaining the bill and then take REASONABLE questions and answer them then some of these people will be silenced if the answers are calming to them.

Not only will this give him a way to state what the bill is to do it will not be interrupted by anger or frustration or assumptions. Now it also works for people to understand a bill that is so FREAKIN LONG....but then again it is written and this will bound him to another broken line of things he has said would happen.

But at least he won't waste his time speaking about it when no one is listening...no one on either side. Those that don't want it only see him spilling lies and those that do want it only hear angelic singing.

It's like I live in a retarded fairy tale and both sides are worse than the other.

I could care less about who authors the health care bill are. I think that the republican bill hr3438 could be amended in to a pretty decent health care bill.

I also wish people would stop comparing hr3200 with Canada and England. It is much closer to the French model, which happens to be ranked #1 by the WHO.

Somethings are better off as socialized programs. I happen to like the government in charge of the military, police and fire departments.

Frances health care system is very few similarities with what they are proposing here.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9994.php
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/21/healthcare-trends-around_n_242264.html
If you get sick over there you get covered, especially if it is something costly or long term like cancer, AIDS, diabetes, hepatitis C... here they are proposing you get 5k a year... not quite the same ehh.

Frances health care system also costs a boat load of money. Singapore... it is cheap and it is effective. The differences in actual care of patients in the top ten is negligible... to the point where they should all be number 1... Singapore is number 7.

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/may-june-magazine-contents/the-singapore-mo...
http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/hcsystem.aspx

J_Jammer, Canada's system is even more dislike what is being proposed here... they are a single payer system... completely different than what they are trying to have us do.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/index-eng.php

I said they were closer...not the same damn thing.

And Canada is a hellhole. We all know that. Your argument would be reasonable if you said Somalia also have a single payer system. Except it doesn't but facts never stand in your way anyway so why not mention a country that actually suck? Canada? Hello? People are healthier there than in the US.

You didn't watch it.

Close minded.

He should sue himself, since he's the one who started the fight.

The worst thing that messes everything up is that after paying the insurance companies for years, many times they refuse to pay when its their turn. They deny paying customers their share of coverage... that is pathetic, evil, and immoral.

Ask Obama.

But I don't know Obama.
How about you, Jammer? You could help out an American while say no to socialized medicine.

Cause, you know, everything Obama does is evil. He's the Nazi Messiah Anti-Christ Communist Socialist Hypocrite, and I don't want him paying for the medical needs no one else wants to pay for.

[sarcasm is fun]

He's just a man to me.

I don't raise them up as awesome better than other side type thing. I don't force the need to turn political ideas into a civil war of words that Lincoln would be oh so proud of you over.

/snarky

ante-up fail

Dammit jh, I'm trying to take responsibility for my own welfare by denying it to others while cashing in on your generosity... Aren't you an American? Or are you... **Gasp** a socialist NAZI?!?!?

/sarcasm

ohnose you're trying to hard.

Sarcasm has room for both subtlety and overtness.
Thanks for the input, Mr. Buzzkillington.
Now donate to my medical costs, it's the American thing to do.

Obama thing to do.

No, the Obama thing to do would be to get everyone together without medical insurance and get them to chip in for each other.

The conservative thing to do would be to have other people take responsibility for the recovery by giving money to one person.

Do you even READ the topic articles before commenting, or does your knee-jerk reactions not allow you to do so?

You don't read.

Obama's thing would be to confuse the public with what it is the Bill will do. Have congress maul it. Fail to explain it and then still pretend he's doing as he promised.

JJ just talks the talk. He won't give a penny to the have-nots, you know? That's what Jesus did and JJ is not Jesus. Don't have unreasonably high expectations.

Jesus did not give money.

Try again.

assumptions own these protest on both sides.

"We just don't see the reason to pay the government instead, so that they can redistribute that wealth to the have-nots, and increase the size of government."

So that we don't pay private health insurance companies that force people to pay high prices for inadequate service. Also, so that everyone is insured as opposed to the horrid state of our health care system (86 million+ Americans uninsured, the "have-nots" you're talking about). The rich shouldn't be the only ones with access to health care, especially when poorer people need it more.

And what you seem to be missing is the fact that he's not the only one in this country asking for help. In fact there are tens of millions that are asking for help. So this ceases to be a small matter of charity and becomes a national crisis. Your quote from Jefferson would have been more impressive if access to health care were a want and not a need.

Here's a good quote.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I like the part about the general welfare. I keep looking for a reference to the rich welfare, but I can't find it.

Disagree and they'll tell you you're wrong.

They love to hate those who are not Democrats.

We already are....and on top of it we are a victim of a government that takes FOREVER to do anything and when they get through with what they have done....it won't be what they promised.

maybe it's because republicans/lobbyists or whoever thinks healthcare is bad impede the fuck out of progress because they have no other whim other then to appease the corporations that pay them to induce spin.

Fox news has such a intangible spell on the populous, understandably. Every notion of hypocrisy is epitomized in the illusionary world of the "fox nation". It is so unfathomably true that the ideals spread by fox are to anesthetize and are alluded to their convoluted notion of American patriotism.

You may argue Democrats/liberals effectively persuade government lucre towards similar projects. But atleast some of them have a sure-sense of what needs to be done. conservatives should flounder at the fact that they have been in control for so fucking long, and its time to let go. Progress needs to be made.
I am angry at the fact that progress is not being made, and for me to be considered a bigot for abdicating the genuineness and credibility of an ideal that has bamboozled a demographic and commandeered the fears of the nation (who watches faux news).

MSNBC is no better and neither are the Democrats. The sooner you realize that the closer you'll be to the truth.

Promotion of hate, anger and death.

Touche.

Holier than thou is a bit strong in you.

J-Jammer, as a rule you know that I usually don't respond to you. I will make an exception on this one though. 1. It is hard to be holier than anyone if you are an atheist. 2.Why are you taking the time to respond to my comment? Did I hit a nerve? Peace on you.

Apparently I did.

oops.

I don't like J_J much, either. And he needs to work on his communication skills.

easy on the Jammer, please.
he doesn't need sticking up for, don't get me wrong, but i've always found him to be grounded, principled and maybe a bit of a sniper.
does he compromise? hard to say, but he doesn't hit you with frivolous, disconnected arguments.

i'd rather notice the similarities than the differences.

If you do not have a strong opinion you feel weak enough to be offended by someone else's....

Do not be upset that someone feels strongly in the opposite direction of you. You are not the marker of right. No human is...for all humans are fatally flawed. I just am all in or not for many things.

Being half-hearted for any reason on anything is quite lame...if not just a waste of time.

Why bother stating anything if you're not sure? Fickle and conflicted is rather fracturing to a person in many respects.

Those who get offended so easily are the ones that tend to be the angriest people.

JJ, I have no problem with a person that has totally considered a position being strong on that position. My problem with you is that you don't evaluate and consider someone elses position or comment before making an inane remark. Get with the program. You seem to have flashes of intelligence. Please use it.

No. You'd rather I just bash people in groups instead. Like everyone else.

Feels strongly? Now therein lies the problem. You just feel. You don't think. You don't learn. Emotions what make people nuts not facts and logic.

Someone tells me he feels strongly about this or that I know he is just another loser human.

You feel you're right.'

oops on your behalf.

your subtlety is overpowering.

Explain how what y'all are doing is any different?
Oh the presumption of right...no wait that's the same too.

Well, everyone here gets a chance to voice their opinion and have it heard (read, rather). From what I've seen of the town hall meetings, protesters are drowning out the representatives and speakers with their chants, so no one BUT them can be heard.
The tone here may be the same, but the chance to be heard and respond is very different. That's one of the benefits of internet "discussion."

For the record, I feel this way about all loud/obnoxious protests, whether they be right or left wing in nature. There's a civil way to discuss things, but unfortunately a lot of people get too hot under the collar to do anything but yell and scream.

People post here and not everyone reads it.

It's the same thing.....but you can pretend it's not.

that's right JJ, no one is ever right but you even if everyone disagrees with you.

Maybe you should stop saying things that apply to you more so.

The problem is people talking about other people in groups instead of what the problem is. THEY...THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY THEY....is terrible thing to state when one is angry. It's bigot like.

Your statement is moronic. It looks like you created it with a mission statement generator.

I have to agree with keviar, it does need to be stepped up.

Nationalist Americans think there's nothing anyone can do better than Americans, while 1) they know shit about the the rest of the world 2 ) they hate about 50% of Americans and their ideas. It's the kind of hypocrisy you can find in every nationalist circle from the US to Malaysia. All of them should be put on a spaceship and kicked out of our solar system so people who think quality is more important than country could finally work without spending valuable time and energy fighting those flag waving morons.

I suppose instead of a small tax increase to help EVERYONE, we should all just say every man, woman, and child for themselves. Like we have been...

You see where I'm going with this?

you just used the term small tax...oxymoron.

Wow. I have to admit that I agree with you on that one, J.

The only problem with your argument is this they aren't free plans. You still have to pay for it, just like any other insurance plan. Don't just listen to what people say, read the fucking bills.

Umm, yeah... I have heard no reference to anything being free...

You mean the bills that they word so sneaky like..the bills that they don't word so that it is simple enough for those that don't have a legal degree to understand what is going on?

Bills are just double talk.

Just like laws.....double speak maybe more accurate. Say one thing but can be used for evil all the same.

Yep... lets not pass anything until the US collapses. Isn't that right, J_Jammer?

You're going to end up confusing your already conflicted thinking.

The female Sean Hannity .

J_Jammer, Hannity and Maddow are polar opposites. Or maybe you just don't pay attention.

A Rhodes scholar is not better than a college dropout?
In what universe?
I'm not even a liberal.

psst: obama works for the same banks as bush....

http://www.infowars.com/manufactured-protests-myth-starts-to-crack/

No university nor school of any kind is proof of intelligence.

and

OHNOSE...Obama is for change. There's no way he'd work for the same bank....he'd change to a different one. Durr.

I simply LOVE the fact that people always assume I love Obama or I am not smart enough to realize that neither the Dems nor the GOP have it right.

Yet comparing these two people is so far beyond me, I'm not even sure it's worth arguing over. Maddow is brilliant (and a fair person).

Regarding Obama working for the same banks as Bush... I believe there's a lot of truth to that. I distrust the entire office that is the Presidency.

I have to agree, the first couple of times I ever saw her stuff I absolutely hated her, I do not even remember what it was about, but I compared her to Ann Coulter... now on the other hand Maddow is the only tele-journalist I have respect for... I do not care for our current health care bill because I do not think it is what we need, I think we need single payer, and I think that some of the things this bill has in it will have adverse effects, but what these lobby groups are doing is cowardice, what all lobby groups do is cowardice, and they need to be exposed and outlawed.

don't bother arguing with JJ, he lives in his own world.

I presume he is an old man because only my gramps is so ridiculously stubborn/willfully ignorant.

That goes to show your presumptions are just as bad as your actual thoughts.

JJ is content with doing nothing and liking it, so when someone takes action he is quick to say they are wrong for doing so.

He's convinced that no one but himself can be correct and that no answer is always the right answer.

And that doesn't describe you....how?

Lol @ Jammer.

Because I have an opinion other than "It's Wrong". I usually say, "It's Wrong, Here's Why, Here's How We Can Fix it". I am not infallible, but I am strong-willed and opinionated. I am not so stubborn that I cannot see another person point of view as long as I think their point has validity.

When's the last time you actually told someone they had a point? That you came to a revelation about a topic through respectful discourse? That you offered a sincere reversal of opinion on realizing you were wrong?

No one is right about everything. Not even if you believe in every word you say hard enough, because belief doesn't make you infallible, facts do.
You silly goose.

So do I.

You just don't like someone who is as, if not stronger, in an opinion.

And it's funny you should say that believing isn't good enough seeing how that's what you are leaking as you type that post.

.................

**Sigh.***

Even in trying to prove me wrong, all you do is prove my point.

[I guess if I believe I can fly, then I can. I'll go jump off a high ledge and flap my arms since believing is all that is necessary...

/end sarcasm]

Furthermore, it's fruitless to continue this banter if you aren't even going to try to meet me halfway. Then again, that was my fault for thinking you would have enough respect for anyone on this board to do that. So go ahead and get your last jab in so you can think that you "beat me" and won the internet.

Shocking that you have this necessity to be right.

Lol, that movie rocked.

It's amazing really. Amazingly stupid.

Almost as much as the hypocrisy.

Especially of those in this thread....

Lol..
"No to socialized medicine!"
"Now, watch me start a fight and get myself hurt!"
"OW! If only there were a way to get medical assistance without being insured, since I lost my job..."
Oh well! Fellow Conservatives, donate money to pay for my medical bills so I can help fight universal health care again!"

The irony is so deafening the stupidity can hardly get a word in edgewise.

Now if only there was some sort of legislation upcoming that could help this poor man......hmmmm.....

Then in that case..we should put your universal healthcare system ON 'donation' system..

at least the motherfucker asked for a donation..you motherfuckers would rob me to pay for your healthcare..

@GnL

It's not a donation system, but it is a participation system. If you choose to keep your private insurance, which you obviously will, then you are paying exactly ZERO into the public option. I know that because your completely nonsensical comments prove that you do not earn over $250,000/yr. Unless you won the lottery.

exactly WUP, exactly.

I thought the exact same thing. Oh the irony is so delicious.