China admits death row organ use

if it is ethical thats ok if the prisoner is ok with it.
Hey i it is time for me to go let them take what ever except my eyes Hey I and Irish and I wnat my coins on my eyes when I am gone.....

i just think the Chiniese are makeing buko bucks of th body parts,Plus I know they kill prisoners and deskin them and take the body less the skin. the Chinese take care of their dead, The family every years clean the body and fix the greavesite. What these American rich bastard and making death money

edit: Yes I do have opinons that what this site is for.But my opion about the Chinese using the prisoners to be deskined for rich Americans to have a show called BodyWorks. and for 25.00 you can see all the dead prisoners also you get a book about the process of deskining.I did see it before the contraversy of them using only prisoners. What was so sad the familys wasn't even told about their family members demise.

Why are these people destined to die? Is it because of disease, misfortune, accident? No, it's because a government with a questionable human rights record (that's being polite) have determined they should die. So what if someone on death row is there because they questioned one of their government's actions? Is it okay to ripe out their organs and give them to the highest bidders? Nice. This is, of course, for the people of China to decide, but as for me, thanks but no thanks. I can do without. One life is no greater than another and when people are being killed for questionable reasons, no I don't think it's okay to share out their organs. It is morally repugnant.

http://current.com/items/77493251_chinas-blood-sellers.htm

http://current.com/items/90369286_xinjiang-riots-explode-in-china.htm

http://current.com/items/77253342_rich-fast-in-china.htm

http://current.com/items/89168253_chinas-rich-women.htm

iamaman - I understand why it would seem listening to China on the matter seems silly- but the Dui Hua Foundation is a human rights organization- now I don't know much about these kind of stats, I'm just trying to gather something more than speculation.

IMO, believing the official records of china is like believing in charley manson.

The idea that executions may be happening more frequently because of the organ trafficking was an interesting concept, so I researched it a bit. Information on Wikipedia that originally came from the Washington Post claims

"As a result of its reforms, China says, the Supreme People's Court overturned about 15 percent of the death sentences handed down by high courts in the first half of 2008. In a brief report in May, the New China News Agency quoted anonymous sources as saying Chinese courts handed down 30 percent fewer death sentences in 2007 compared with 2006."

It also says "Dui Hua Foundation declares that the true figures were higher; they estimate that China executed between 5,000 and 6,000 people in 2007, down from 10,000 in 2005."

If organ trafficking was perpetuating their death sentences, wouldn't the numbers be going up each year?

Debate it all you want but transparency does not imply change in policy. Death row inmates in China can at least look forward to contributing to continued life for someone else and in part their own...

I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread before deciding to toss in my two bits -- so I apologize in advance if this repeats what others have said.

Probably the most-discussed problem with this practice is that of providing incentives to impose harsher punishments on convicted criminals than their conduct warrants...just to keep the "organ mills" flush with new organs. Petty theft? OFF with his head!

Yeah, what if you got the heart of the guy who sold the poisoned milk? Execution in China is preceded with little appeal.

China admitted it, but they aren't going to do nothing about it.

Hey guys, I realize this is a heated issue - but lets try to keep the debate focused on the topic at hand and not on each other. If any one starts getting a little too personal please flag it immediately.

Thanks,

-Ben

?

What happened to all of those responses???

My concern is that the"criminals" in China are sentenced to death for "crimes" that most people would not consider grounds for arrest, much less death. Another story that I heard on NPR a while ago was the method by which the organs were being harvested. Apparently they were harvesting while the prisoner was not quite dead. This is barbaric.

I hope this admission will at least stop this practice.

Hmmm, Well if the Chinese people have cultural issues about removing organs post-death, then that's a problem. Furthermore they should have the prisoners permission to take the organs in the first place (although I didn't see anywhere in the article whether they asked one way or the other).

Yes the death penalty is bad and China probably executes many innocents, but they're not about to change are they? And when they dump the bodies, there goes so many lives along with the wasted organs.

Also, if they cut out prisoner organ donation (or stealing) that's only going to increase the black market organ stealing (aka killing random people for their body parts and selling them for a mint).

I side with Delia about the life of a person in need to be more important than the wishes of a dead guy. Sorries.

Firstly, I didn't make an assumption, I asked a question that I felt was relevant in regards to the topic of dying. Anyway, since you don't seem to want to answer it, what China is doing is immoral. The death penalty is immoral in and of itself. What they are doing to harvest the organs of human beings without their consent and more then likely unhealthy organs at that is a crime. You cannot get around that. And in response to your comment I do practice morality. I'm not the one who comes here wearing my beliefs, or non beliefs on my sleeve and shoving them down others' throats like you and your friends here do. If you are going to do that don't then become self righteous when someone addresses it in a posting. And since you're giving out advice here's some for you: You might also try practicing a little humility as well as looking up the word hypocrisy yourself and learn how to respond to an adult question instead of jumping down my throat.

I'm not about to judge another country's moral standards or practices when it comes to death row inmates. With that said, China does not reverse conviction often (understatement) and plenty of folks in China do need organs. So what are the negative consequences of giving another person a chance to live by removing an organ from a person destined to die?

Whoa whoa whoa now. "you wouldn't look so uninformed in your attempt to feign moral superiority." The only person feigning moral superiority here is you, Jan. I don't assume to be more moral than anyone and I didn't imply it anywhere. I didn't say you didn't care about living people or any of the other false conclusions you jumped to in your little rant. I merely said what MY opinion was.

"The fact that you are an atheist so are morally superior to those of us who believe in the soul? "

Congratulations, you've reached the next level in hypocrisy! You jump down the throats of those who make assumptions and generalizations about Christians, but do just that to me because I'm an atheist? What does atheism have to do with this anyway?

I agree that there are many human rights abuses going on in China. However I won't "feign moral superiority" to immediately judge another country's prison system when the country I live in has one of the, if not THE highest population of prisoners in the world. Besides that point, I admitted I didn't know the whole story (like who is taking these organs), and instead of attempting to give me information you chose the route of personal attacks and nonsense. If you want to lecture others on morality you might want to try practicing some.

You side with Communist governments and criminals who don't give two shits about those living in their country either and may just be bringing them to their deaths faster as well. If you had an inkling of what was truly going on in China and what was going on in regards to this crime in general you wouldn't look so uninformed in your attempt to feign moral superiority. Noting the true controversy behind this crime does not mean one does not care for the living. Another false assumption based on what? The fact that you are an atheist so are morally superior to those of us who believe in the soul? Or basically those of us who decry criminal activity and human rights abuses? I hope you filled out a donor card then for all of your concern. I have.

I guess my "moral base" is more concerned with the billions of people dying while they wait for organ donors than the rights of a dead body.

Your ethical questions are valid, but China's prison system and executions are human rights issues apart from this one. The article doesn't address things like diseased organs- and in response to the question of would I accept one, I can't pretend that my answer now wouldn't change if I were the one dying.

The article states "Human rights groups have often criticised China for its lack of transparency over organ donation, but critics have focused particular concern on the use of body parts from executed prisoners.

In a rare admission of the extent to which this takes place, China Daily - citing unnamed experts - said on Wednesday that more than 65% of organ donations come from death row prisoners."

Who's taking them- the government? Random thieves? It's unclear to me.

But my main point is simple: People who are executed no longer need their organs. But there are living people that do. When I weigh out that moral decision, I side with the living.

Anyone with a moral base would know what the controversy is. One, do you truly think they are told this will happen to them? Do you not think people, even those on death row have any rights to what will be done to their body once they are dead? Two, the health of the inmates in many instances is questionable in the first place. Would you accept an organ from someone if you didn't know if they had diabetes, cancer, or even AIDS? Do you think those secretly harvesting these organs (many times for a huge profit) would even tell you if they did know? And three, how many of those being executed are actually guilty of a crime? You are talking about a country here that imprisons you for speaking out against the government. I think that is even more appalling. So again, there is for sure a moral and health controversy surrounding this.

I don't know; the prisoners are already on death row? They are going to die? Why NOT take their organs for people who can use them or could die without them? Sounds like a great idea to me, actually- what's the controversy?

Unscrupulous commie bastards!

I posted this once before in an article about organ harvesting, but Larry Niven wrote a sci fi story about organ harvesting from criminals which as a Hugo award nominee back in 1967, which is still a chilling commentary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jigsaw_Man

Yeah but at least China steals organs from her own criminal?citizens, it would different if the army was occupying a state and harvesting their vital organs. (Israel)
Maybe the USA will be able to pay off some of the foreign debt by selling their vital organs?