Will California become America's first failed state?

california on appearance only is socially liberal, with control by a conservative cabal including so called liberals. The state is divided to a point of standstill. As other users have noted most legislative decisions have been punted to voters via propositions due to impotence by our legislative system. The reasons are numerous but it mostly boils down to influence by wealthier californians over our politicians.

So pack a bag and move or do you have to ask mommy an daddy first?

taking the assumption i live in michigan?

that said, the fitting response; i don't have to ask my parents, ima big boy you poopy face, ask ur mommy and daddy! if u love cali so much why dont u marry it!!!

Thats funny are you stone or just a smartass I don't care which. You should pack a bag and go out into the big bad world. I did had a great time for the most part. I hitched my way to D.C. and parts north of of Texas. Mostly the east coast where work was easy to find. But hey man make the Journey. I can asure you a good time to say the very least. Just give it a try you can always go home and tell the tell of being out there.

"Help the country"! We are paying taxes out our ass to support populist programs designed by idiots seeking re-election at all costs. Obama has never held a private sector job, nor have many Democratic reps and Republicans. How does anyone in their right mind imagine that they can run a country? California is now reaping the benefits of irresponsible leadership! We are being led by morons not suited to manage a yard service company. When the, steroid puffed," Terminator", is elected to run one of the largest economies in the World, we must ask, "what are the priorities" of this warped state and nation? California is getting just what it deserves, as will the rest of America unless drastic changes are made.

so what are you doing to make things better?

Are you trolling?

what am i doing to make things better? I employ the drunks and druggies that can't get work else where

"Bailey 78", that is an admirable contribution. I am out of country, yet I still attempt to employ as many people as my P&L will allow. However, I hope that you are encouraging the D&D's to improve their lives and seek for improvement in their situation. I have had many family members in need of support for various addictive problems. A helping hand is great, but a permanent crutch serves no purpose, unless the creation of a helpless majority is the goal.

Right on, MoonLoon, for your "Help Your Country" spot. That's what my hubba says and that they deserve what they asked for....

I do what I can for them. I do not run a rehab

But the photo above could look like it was taken from anywhere in Africa though...

......just saying.

" a failed state"? Comparing African nations to California is like comparing a fall from a footstool to a dive from the Transamerica Tower. The fall is painless, it is the sudden stop at the bottom that hurts!

Detroit is not a state. It maybe in a sate of confusion but it's not a state.

@kennymotown DOH! i meant to say michigan

Great comments, "Grass". I couldn't have said it better.

Indeed chap...

Tell that to prop 13!

We CAN'T do -any- of those things because it requires a 2/3's majority in the legislature.

It only takes a few bought out losers to ruin the whole show.

Things like that make me think that politicians should have their bank account closely monitored, and there should be an extreme penalty for receiving and giving bribes. Of coarse, the people who actually make the laws would never allow something like that to pass.

Now we have reached the largest problem in this country by far. Congress is bought and paid for by corporate america, so why would they listen to us?

I was having the same thoughts...

"Red Hood", the "Grapes of Wrath", is a great book. It contains lessons in life that you may not understand , as a young student. I suggest re-reading it from time to time as you mature. There is always more knowledge to glean from this story. Kindest Regards, MoonLoon

red hood

People are still running to CA to this day. However it is easy to get here just not to stay here. It is an expensive state. We like to say " we pay for the weather".

Peace from Cali

yeah, republican ones.

What's that supposed to mean? Didn't you freaking read that programs including public education are being cut?

Some programs are just not meant to be cut, you can cut costs only so much, until you bankrupt the freaking state with tax cuts. Where the hell is the state supposed to get revenue from?

THATS irresponsible... unless you believe that public education is bullshit...

I don't know what a "detached and enchanted jaded liberal" is, but I think I qualify.
Whooppee!

Ampersand, I see you more as enchanting and "misenfranchised." That is the word I use to describe the refeerendum process. California sounds like it has the same problem we do -- though CA's version is on steroids, naturally. The Cowardly Lion that is our state legislature now punts a dozen or so of the most difficult and potentially controversial decisions to referenda. So despite the fact that we are tasked with studying the candidates so we can send the best of them to make decisions on our behalf at the capitol, their decision is increasingly to send the decisions back to us.

The result is, at least to my mind, ludicrously ironic. Now every ballot has the name of potential state legislators from which I am to choose...followed by a list of the decisions that were too momentous for the LAST group of legislators I voted into office. Sigh.

In another age, the best politicians would seize such legislation as an opportunity to take bold action for the betterment of the electorate. Now they all seem to be more afraid of blame for failure than credit for success. In part I blame the over-the-top criticism of the various shock jocks and their insatiable demand for "scandal" to provide "content" for their programming. Sad.

From cradle to grave separates the classes. It rapes the middle class until they disappear and then we have the rich and the poor The rich rule the poor peons, who are dependent on the rulers to determine what they can and cannot do.

I'm guessing that's because you work at a casino.

We need to cut down on spending because of how adversely the economic meltdown affected our state. No one was expecting a 30% drop in tax revenue, which was piled on top of an already huge deficit.

But it's not like it was a reckoning of bad social policies. Republicans have essentially been in control, even when they're not, since prop 13 passed. Social programs have been slashed left and right for nearly 30 years now.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to raise taxes, set new standards or get ANYTHING done related to the budget because a -small- Republican minority can block ANYTHING they don't want. Even if doing so means destroying the state.

It has nothing to do with excessive regulation and everything to do with class warfare.

Republicans will never raise taxes on the wealthy, period. And they frequently ask for tax breaks for them or they veto the budget. The only taxes they approve of are regressive ones against the worse off in our state.

Combine that with prop 13's statute which freezes property taxes unless it has changed hands, and you have the crux of the problem. Huge ass mall-owners or corporate types working with tax standards from -30 years ago-. Meanwhile the middle class pays out the ass since buying and selling homes is a crucial part of their wealth acquisition.

And that's just ONE example. There are dozens.

Literally, things are so bad that the legislature has to put most of its public projects into prop measures to be passed by the public, because their hands are always tied.

We're one of the most hard-working states in the whole country and before this meltdown we were still one of the greatest. But we're fast becoming Mississippi with computers.

The reason is not because of excessive government, it's because we can't RUN our own damn government.

I know that response was kind of jumbled, but I hope I've illustrated in at least a shallow way how ham-handedly our state has been forced to run itself since Reagan left.

the state has been going down waaay longer than Arny's reign....it's all about the entitlement society/welfare state.

I agree with you completely JonRaymond!!

damn right, arnold was elected on my friggin birthday, worst birthday ever.

Why did you stop typing? Lol Go on....

Thats the best I think I have ever heard. It is people like me who are the reason Cali is failing. Is it because I only gave half of my check to the government in one way or another to pay for some tax of some kind so some shit head can sit on his ass a few days longer without getting a job? Is it my work ethic? I only work 65 to 70 hours a week and I suppose the time I waste sleeping or relaxing I could be working more so I could pay more taxes so more illegals and shitheads could milk the system for a little more. How uncaring of me. I am such an asshole. WTF makes me think I only need to work 65 to 70 hours a week when there a thousands of shitheads out there who depend on my tax dollars.
I am so sorry for my attitude. I will work harder for the wastoids, matoids and shitheads who depend on me for their livelyhood.

and I dont have the time to read books I have to make money for the shit heads that dont wanna work.
who will think of the shitheads

I'm not defending the Republicans, but they're not the only ones to blame. The Democrats haven't been any less corporate-friendly and a great many liberals (especially in California) have been more preoccupied with shallow environmentalism than with the concerns of people. Reading about James Kunstler gloating about Americans being plunged into economic ruin just because he hates suburbs and cars is sickening.

Good answer Saladin, I can appreciate the fact you have been paying attention. Remember when it was all the Democratically elected Grey Davis's fault and the big push by the Republicans to RECALL him. WOW that really fucking worked didn't it. Arnold is the Republican governor and he has to take the blame, but I even like the guy and feel sorry for his mess but it's a legislative problem for the state and they will ultimately be the ones who can only fix it. And for those who think social safety nets are killing California, I pity the fools!

Its funny that Ihatethemall thinks that its illegals and liberal policies hurting his pocketbook. If the government forced business owners to pay illegal workers ethical wages and tax those wages then there wouldnt be any reason for a business to hire them and pay them under the table, thus less of a reason for them to flock into the country. Wake up moron, the Republicans want illegals here so they use them as slave labor and not pay them any benefits, and while they are here, they create a labor surplus thus making it even cheaper to hire actual citizens. And by the way, the majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with or worked with are hardworking and decent, so its just shameful that people can be so out of touch with reality and hate and hate and hate while not even knowing the real story. Also, lets ship more factories to China so the Republican corporate machine can exploit people there as well, and all the while more Americans are out of work and people like ihatethemall just calls them lazy bums who should be left to die if they get sick and can't afford healthcare.

The states with the worst economies are ran by a Democratic majority in their congress.

Easy jammer - CA subsidizes other states and you know it.

They need to keep their own hands in their own cookie jar.

kanedakind, I like your attitude you are a true American and I like the way you think. The hardest thing to do is get everybody on the same page, and it seems to be amplified in California. Tax cuts for wealthy are a prime reason for California's failures and we can thank Republican mindset. If they really think that a failure and collapse of the government is the answer I pity the fools!

Completely agree. It's so frustrating because the facts are right in front of these people, but they choose not to open their eyes. I fear that soon instead of people arguing about who runs government, it's gonna be about whether we even need a government. They're certainly not doing a good job protecting the people.

2 Definitions
Liberal
"adjective 1 willing to respect and accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own. 2 (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms. 3 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate reform. 4 (Liberal) (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat party. 5 (especially of an interpretation of a law) not strictly literal. 6 given, used, or giving in generous amounts. 7 (of education) concerned with broadening general knowledge and experience. "

Environmentalist
"A person who cares about the surroundings or conditions in which a person, animal, or plant lives or operates."

Then tell me what are wrong with these definitions, ideas, thoughts or even people? What are you suggesting to help fix our current problems?

Amen!

funny liberals and the environmentalists are going to be saving your conservative wasteful people by not being like you.. Cali will get better, n you know the rest of the country pretty much follows what we do so if we fail then you probably will too...

2 words: republican idiocy.

Bush was a liberal environmentalist? News to me.

florida's bad ! i am a carpenter. they have a glut of houses and condos and empty commercial spaces here.....no more building in FL !

Property values fell 70% in my area of Florida, yay for worthless houses!

I moved back to Illinois from Jacksonville Florida after living there for several years. It just one housing development and strip mall after another with no rhyme or reason, and all the houses are cheaply built. I would always wonder where the hell all those people worked at, I guess they really didnt work and just assumed they would all flip the houses to each other after a while. Guess that didn't work out.

Maybe prices fell here in Florida, but it is allowing many home buyers, especially first time and young home buyers, to purchase homes in Florida. It's mainly bad for those who either bought during the bubble or took out multiple mortgages on their homes. And as far as commercial is concerned, it's making it easier on small business owners and new starups to get into spaces that were once too expensive or had stalwart landlords who wouldn't budge on lease terms during more profitable times.

*yawn*

And funny how you get so worked up over welfare, but not about the $700 billion bailout of the people and institutions responsible for the current economic mess in the first place. But, no, everything's the fault of welfare moms and illegal immigrants to you. You sound like a broken record.

you left out the dirtbag environmentalists costing people jobs for shit like little minnows

OH shit CP. Thanks for pointing that out.

@Jermenygoode:

I was unaware that cali gave out 700 billion dollars to bail out institutions. I thought that was the feds that did that. Oh wait IT WAS. This is a story on why Cali is failing. Had it been a story on why the USA is failing I would have pointed that out.

And just so you know, I dont really give a fuck what I sound like to you.

and one last thing there jeramy, you better wake up, I thought I saw a white person making money and not sharing.

@Ihatethemall Could you define what welfare is? Do you mean corporate welfare and the leisure rich class who sit on their ass? Or do you meaning helping the poor, who I remember you Jesus, Buddha and Muhammed all said to do just that? The program is stratified you know? There are three major goals? How long are poor people usually on welfare? Do they have to get a job? Where do they usually get a job at, and does that meet their needs or wants? What opportunities do they have? Do, can or how do they move up economically and socially? If your born poor do you die poor?

In other countries if you get sick they take care of you no charge. Why is it that WE DECIDE in our Home, our Country the strongest, the bravest, the proudest, and yet so unkind we can not provide for the sick. Where is the hospitality?

kivol:

I understand that you are a bit younger. Not your fault. That does not change the fact that I have had a LOT more experiances than you. I grew up in Chicago. I went to the public schools. I had friends, both races, that had families that were into their 3rd generation of welfare. That is a problem. There is no reason why they couldnt get a job. They taught their kids to milk the system. Not just blacks. I had plenty of white friends whos families were the same way. There is NO EXCUSE for being a 2nd or 3rd or 4th generation welfare collector.

I ask you this Kivol, Can you explain to me why there should be families who are 3rd generation welfare collectors? Even 2nd generation. what is the differance between the welfare collectors and the ones that pull themselves up by there bootstraps and dig there way out of the slums to make something out of their life? I know the differance, I am asking you if you do. I am outta here for tonight so if I dont see ur reply tonight I will tomorrow. Later

Then why the fuck do you read them and respond?

You can only but to blame yourself..

@Ihatethemall

wow...you hit the nail on the head!

Thank you occhipij.

kivol - You asked "Where is the hospitality?"

It is not the responsibility nor the place for a government to impose morality on its population. You're profile says you are interested in sociology. I've studied a great deal in this discipline, and the concepts are too vague. You can't help everybody. When you try to, you end up like California. You will also see, as you progress into the discipline, that a lot of sociological theory can't be trusted as unbiased, because the people that are paying sociologists are liberal organizations that WANT government intervention.

@Ihatethemall

I see your point on people exploiting the welfare system, it's not fair that hard working people like (presumably) you and I have to pay taxes so lazy people can sit around and eat with our money. But completely cutting welfare will is not the solution. Instead of cutting the program as a whole, the government should investigate exactly who is abusing our money and make sure the money is going to those who actually need it. The biggest challenge is changing the attitudes of those who willingly choose not to work. Most Americans would rather not see these people in the ghetto then see them walking around the streets begging for money, which is what happens in all third world countries.

I'm not saying welfare should end completely. But when someone has been on it for 10 20 30 years and now their kids and in some cases grandkids are on it thats a problem. I sick and tired of paying for these fools to sit at home and make babies.

@ogopa, if they chose not to work, then they should have the right not to work. It is their American right to just do nothing. The problem truly is welfare, if you chose to do nothing that is your right, but why should ihatethemall pay for their choices?
If one chooses to earn a living by asking for money on the streets, so be it. I have no problem saying, "NO!!! " and sometimes "yes".

Right wing thinkers are always concerned about the rich getting taxed to pay for lazy welfare queens. Underpaying the people who do work is a much bigger problem than overtaxing the "rich", who are grossly overpaid in the first place. We should quit allowing the working class to be taken advantage of, more than worrying about welfare queens taking advantage of upper management. The right seems to have this idea that the left wants to give lazy people handouts, and the right is always trying to take this moral high ground, saying that the rich are rich because they honestly work harder than everyone else, which is BS. The reason they are wrong about the left, and business practices in general, is that people who do work and bust their ass are being taken advantage of and are having difficulty making ends meet. Thats what's wrong with America, its getting harder and harder to go and make a decent living even if you have the skills and desire to work. Republican business theory is to cut labor costs as much as possible so they can pay their board members grossly unethical bonuses, all the while cutting healthcare benefits and such to their workers. Then they have the audacity to oppose healthcare reform and say if you can't afford healthcare its because you don't work hard enough. Right wing economic theories and policies are a disaster, and only serve the greed of those on the top. Anyone who thinks that right wing policies are acceptable should be thrown into one of those California wildfires and roasted alive.

first i'd have to ask you who "them" are? when you say that, what people are you referring to? because in the case of born here american's i'd have to ask you how dire would your straights have to be to keep your children fed. im from cali. i have seen lazy right next to the person that just had some bum luck.. what humanity do you offer them? why do you make yourself so far removed from "them"

so, do you really hate them all? or do you hate the mall? tricky....

dooderonomy, I asked him the same thing.

Regular posters know the name, of Ihatethem all, very well. He hates them all, as I do. Except for Israel where our opinions diverge. But back to the point. I have run businesses for most of my adult life (33 years). If you fail to make a profit you lose your job, no questions asked. California politicians and other idiots in the public realm seem to be immune from the same responsibility that a business man would be held to. California has been infested by a populist mentality supported by a massive influx of cheap labor and unsustainable real estate prices. Welcome to the real world, morons!

Thank you Mr Moonloon. I couldnt have said it better myself.

@Anna May

Did you not see where I said that I dont have any problem with someone getting welfare for 12 months or so but 2nd, 3rd and in some cases 4th generation welfare families is wrong. If you dont see a problem with that I dont know what to tell you.

I will ask you the same question I ask others. What shoudl be done with someone who wont work. Someone who has been on welfare for 10 20 30 years. At what point do you just tell that person.....tough shit....you had your chance and you wasted it. The tax payers of this country are NOT going to continue to pay for you to sit on your ass.

I give them 2 years tops. In 2 years if you havent done anything to better your self chances are you have no intention of doing so.

no mention of prop 13 anywhere.....

For some. Unemployment is in the double digits. there are restaurants closing everywhere. walk into any mall and see the empty stores.

Depressions always hit harder show more in the poorer communities first. Don't fool yourself into thinking this isn't going to trickle....better yet, flood it's way into the communities that are doing okay. California is a STATE and if something isn't done you ALL will feel the effects.

Uhhh, Texas? Seriously? Are you actually trying to compare Texas' economy to California's so as to say "a red state did it first". Is this some miserable attempt to justify failure? Pathetic.

Oh, for heaven's sake, mger, lighten up. I was simply referring to that goofy Governor and his ilk that threatened to secede. There isn't a much better definition of a failed state than one that leaves the Union.

But I UNDERSTAND that those folks are in the tiny minority -- the most dipshitted of the minority of dipshits in Texas. I know the Texas economy is doing comparatively well. I have a number of wonderful friends both IN Texas and FROM Texas. I even feel a bit of identity with Texas because it is a western state like my home state of Montana. And here in Montana we have a tiny minority of dipshits who are pretty comparable...though they have not yet found a microphone (or at least one that is attached to the right medium).

So I sincerely apologize for any aspersions I may have cast upon your lovely state...but those guys are STILL on intellectual life support. At best.

Did you read the article? CA may become a failed state because it is bankrupt.

Secession is not a symptom of 'failure' - it signifies the capacity for independence and having its affairs in order. Plenty of secessionists in Oregon and VT, NH, etc., as well.

well Texas has run out of unemployment insurance money, Cali hasn't yet, so I would say that Cali is still better off... but we need to get retarded Arnold out of the Governors seat...

It's funny you use Texas as a doomed state. I don't know anyone here that wants a job that does not have one. Maybe you should try staying in cali or were ever you are because I think Texas is doing just fine with out you

all of the people who live in other states besides texas can talk all the shit they want about my state. they dont live here so how can they know about the best weed and the most beautiful women. they just can't quit hating. if you ask me cali can just fall off the contiguous map and drift into russia. cali = cancer.

What a stupid suggestion that California could even be compared to Texas. Even with the succession----Texas is the ONLY state that could survive Succession and even more so probably the only state that could become part of the European Union. haha.

You think Clinton and Obama have charm the world over....Texas has it based on 'myth' alone.

God I love my fellow Texans!

whatever, the whole country is effed right now, and don't worry Texas is the LAST place I would ever want to go to.. so you can stay there and look forward to more Californians coming to your "great state" and ruining it by turning it liberal...

Juice,

Did you read my response? I said that Texas' economy is doing comparatively well. I said that I had friends who live in Texas and friends who came from Texas. I said it was a lovely state. I lived in Houston for a year, but I must admit that I liked Austin and San Antonio a good deal more than I liked Houston. But it was a good career move, and I met some lifelong friends.

I did not compare Texas to California. I was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to the secession talk that came out of the Texas Governor's office. Our country is a union of states. The 50 states united to form a nation. If one seceeds, it is by definition no longer one of the "united" states. That sums up the intent of my post.

Californians could come to Texas, but they might get shot.

Oops.