Iraqis Shocked as Atheism Creeps in

I think atheism must be a refreshing change , to the extreme control of a religion . I think it a natural reaction for some people . Those who like to think independently and have the confidence to do so . Churches do have the corner on community gatherings and support , I admit . We each have our own version of a belief system , I thing very few are identical . As long as the golden rule is the cornerstone and is not contradicted in any way , I do not consider it extremist , or negative . You have to be able to walk in another person's shoes ...

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side" - Aristotle

"I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi

I think this applies to anyone that misses the real point in religion.

I concur that people who belong to an organized religion have an obligation to work to see that the organization truly represents the values the religion purports to espouse (e.g., loving thy neighbor).

But I would also submit that people need to maintain a sense of perspective. We often talk about the difficulty faced by one man or woman trying to change "the system" of our government. "You can't fight City Hall," is a common expression for the difficulties faced by such people, regardless of the merits of their cause.

Well, if it is hard to be an agent for change in a city or state, let alone an entire country...the major religions are exponentially larger still.

For example, my own religion, Lutheranism, recently changed its policies so that the rules governing gay and lesbian clergy have become the same as those for heterosexual clergy. They may engage in sexual behavior so long as it is part of a committed and monogamous relationship.

Previously, while the religion accepted gay and lesbian clergy, they were required to be celibate so long as they ministered -- unlike the rule for heterosexual clergy. If one is required to be celibate, I am not even sure that is consistent with an appellation like "gay" or "hetero," but that was the rule...and it was unjust. I suppose the fact that none of the sexual orientations are allowed to "play the field" is still unjust...but one fights these battles one at a time if one hope to win the war, I have found.

But we are experiencing a rather nasty backlash at the moment. And as is typical, the communities in the various countries and continents tend to have very different perspectives. So while 80% of the adherents in America may be supportive of the rule change, only 60% might, for example, be supportive in Africa.

So while many, many people of good will and the best of intentions are working every day...these things take time. To paraphrase Martin Luther King, Jr., I have seen the promised land. I may not live long enough to get there with you, but I am confident that we WILL get there...

Amen to that ;)

But I think it is unacceptable for practitioners of the 3 monotheist religions to remain silent in front of the obscurantist/fundamentalist forces that seems to be taking ALL the place & discourse these past years...

Mainstream Muslims, Chistians & Jews all seem terrorized into silence by the fringe nut cases of their own faith.

Exceptional post, WhiteNoise, as usual. I know that I take an approach that is considerably different from that of may others here on Current. But I am gratified that so many have been so open-minded toward me.

Personally, I try to bear the teachings and example of Jesus in mind during my daily struggles with my deep-seated imperfections -- moral and otherwise. "Christ" and "Christianity" are two VERY different things, at least to my mind. The trappings of organized religion seem too often to "cloud" or "distort" the image of Jesus I find in the Bible and other related texts. As I compare the list I have spent a long lifetime preparing of the attributes I would LIKE to possess, I find that Jesus exemplifies just about all of them. He must have been extraordinary. But while he is at least ostensibly at the center of the many "Christian" religions, they are all very much human creations, regardless of the source of their inspiration.

That does not mean that I simply shove my own religion aside as irretreivably flawed. I just try to take it with the proverbial (groan...pun intended) grain of salt. I enjoy the sense of community, and I enjoy the give-and-take of "comparing notes" on how my friends and neighbors conduct THEIR day-to-day struggles against the trials and tribulations life throws in their paths...as well as how they savor the joys, large and small that ALSO come their way.

I just have to keep my "filter" firmly in place so that the less savory elements that often accompany organized religion (organized ANYTHING, for that matter) are kept mostly at bay such as knee-jerk intolerance for people and ideas that are "different." Certainly I reject some ideas -- and even some people --, but I want to do so as the result of careful thought and consideration and not simply because they are different from my own ideas or from me.

I have no beef whatsoever with atheists or agnostics -- so long as they are courteous enough to allow me the peace and space to believe my delusions, I am more than happy to return the favor...

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.... Does this mean that W. actually did potentially aide a MAJOR development in the Middle East with his invasion?

Praise be to the Bushes??

What is disturbing to me about this piece is the idea that "conservatives" in Iraq are so opposed to religious freedom that they are shocked by admissions of atheistic thoughts or beliefs.

Understand it does not surprise me, I just find it disturbing.

There have always been atheists, everywhere and at all times.

The fact is that in most places and most times it has been a very dangerous thing to openly admit being an atheist.

The superstitious, ignorant herd following whatever religion ostracizes, ruins and/or simply destroys anyone who dares speak out.

Even in liberal, tolerant, progressive, urban, Portland, Oregon, I am still cautious about revealing my status as an atheist,

I can't imagine what courage it would take to admit one's atheism in Iraq, or even the deep south in the USA. Both places are filled with religious superstition, bigotry and hatred for the non-believer.

Now lets hope the 4 people that are athiest don't get publicly stoned.

If any place would be better off with atheism, this is the one!

Hm, what is interesting are the similarities between the dogma espoused by Christian and Islamic zealots on either side of the world, but neither, as expected will take responsibility for their tactics as a possible motivation for this shift in beliefs.

I'm glad that people all over the world are starting to finally wake up and realize that religon weighs down society.

Yeah, I'm surprised so many people -stick- with religion when terrible things happen to them. You'd think in a land like Iraq, it would become evident very quickly that god wasn't really around.

It's just how monotheism is set up. Back in the pagan days (in Rome anyway) peoples' commitment to gods was often contractual. If their prayers were not answered, it was not uncommon for people to smash their idols and renounce that specific god. But with monotheistic religions, you're supposed to thank god for all the blessings in your life and ignore all the hardships (or attribute them to the devil). It's an ingenious ploy to fix that old problem.

@Jan - Seeing religion and spirituality of any kind dead? When have I ever claimed to want that?

I thought this story was interesting because it is about people who are born into a very strict and culturally bound religion who are beginning to question it. All people deserve the right and opportunity to question their religion and faith, to be introduced to many ideas and choose their spiritual path for themselves - preferably without having to hide their identity or be afraid of admitting their beliefs (or non-belief.)

Your zeal in seeing religion and spirituality of any kind dead is very intolerant.

Blame Americans for questioning the truth of religion? I blame the suicide bombers...