Is Cuba ready for a revolution?

I agree with your general post, and I completely know what you mean about US government (and usually Americans, too) confusing socialism with communism, but Castro does call himself communist as well as many other aspects of his government...

FYI the Cuban doctor that smuggled the footage out of Cuba was placed unnder arrest and lost his license to ever practice again in the Cuban medical system.

The last thing the Cuban government wants is for this type of footage to get out.

Here's some more photos out of Cuba. Some people have gone through alot of trouble to get this out of that country:

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

Don't make the mistake of ignoring the facts to suit your image of what you THINK Cuba is like... There is plenty of information out there that documents the abuses of this regime, not to mention the extreme deficiencies of the Cuban healthcare system.

He's not ignoring anything, he's making a valid question. Stop changing the subject and answer it if you can.

I thought I answered his questions.

Is it a real hospital? Yes.

Why is there no audio? People in Cuba still have TVs in black and white, its no stretch to believe they don't exactly have state of the art cameras...

Its a hospital, not an abandonded building. Just blocks from the capitol building in Havana there are ruined buildings, its not uncommon to find buildings in a state of disrepair in Cuba.

The reason I didn't answer his questions directly was because I thought he was insencere in his doubts. Questioning things to the point of nihilism is what Moore and denport did.

If this same footage had been shown on some other network, I'm not sure he would have questioned it. It reminds me of the way people are skeptical of the Moon landing to the point of everything...

Would denport have ever questioned it if it had run on Current TV or CNN, or MSNBC? My only regret is that this only was shown on Fox (a channel with credibility problems)...

I even linked to a Wall Street Journal article that talked about the incident of the arrest of Dr. Ferrer in Cuba for his release of that footage. Or is that still not good enough? What else is necessary to convince him? To actually take him to the site? I did my best, if that didn't convince him, then nothing I do will.

I'm thankful for your direct answers, but not everyone who questions your position in a nihilist. Also I don't think you should expect to convince anybody. That's not what debate is about, although I do understand you were just trying to explain yourself and your posture on the subject.

I was a teenager when castro took over. I went to school here with cubans, my neighbor was a cuban with a brother in the anti castro movement. In no way am I for the communist state of cuba. However I receive lots of information about everythng including politics. I always want confirmation. Sometime when I ask for confirmation the people withdraw their statement. What camera does not have audio. Even the old kodaks have audio. remember the super 8, the 16's. I don't know of any movie camera that did not have any form of audio. I am skeptical of anything that can not be confirmed or has a non logic look to it. I think one could choose a building here and make the same footage. Name calling is sign of not having a good response. Nihilist...not good. Journalism should show the truth and leave no doubt.

How about the link with the photos? Do you deny those as well?

How is anyone in Cuba supposed to tell the outside world about the abuses going on inside, when no one wants to believe them? It upsets me because I feel like people like Dr Ferrer are going out of their way and no one cares about what they did.

And not only that, Dr. Darsi Ferrer is in prison again and on hunger strike. He witnessed a 20 year old be beaten and through from a building, then thrown in his cell and later pronounced dead by ???"suicide"????

that video is a joke, give me a break!

Enough of a joke to get the guy who filmed it arrested and have his medical license revoked by the Cuban government? I don't think so.

THANK YOU! Finally, some sense...

ending the "embargo" won't change the situation until the regime is gone. what makes you think the regime will allow Cubans to be free? What evidence do you have that Cubans can form their own corporations, trade freely, get rich?

Can Cubans freely surf the internet? NO.

Can Cubans freely leave the country? NO.

Can Cubans freely speak out against the regime? NO.

And that's the fault of an Embargo? please.

"What evidence do you have that Cubans can form their own corporations, trade freely, get rich?"

What evidence do you have they can't? Seriously, what kind of an argument is that? They haven't because they don't have the resources, the funds, becuase thanks to the limitations on their economy the only income they get is from tourism and sugar.

The embargo is what props up the Castro government. It provides an easy scapegoat.

Communism didn't do that to Cuba, the embargo did. And BTW, the "yankees" can't even save themselves from their own home-made crisis, let alone save a country from what they did to it.

mariana, that's such empty headed horse hockey.

the embargo is strictly from the US to cuba. Europe still trades with them. South America still trades with them. Russia and china etc. trade with them.

It IS communist tyrrany that has destroyed the country, open your bloody eyes.

"the embargo is strictly from the US to cuba." - NOT TRUE!

"The Helms-Burton Act extended the territorial application of the initial embargo to apply to foreign companies trading with Cuba, and penalized foreign companies allegedly "trafficking" in property formerly owned by U.S. citizens but expropriated by Cuba after the Cuban revolution."

The embargo was a US attempt to destroy Cuba. Failed!

What regime isnt bad, communist or not, what you have in Cuba, you have it else where, even worse.

Only difference with cuba is that we do not control its leaders, thats behind all the fuss

Thank you, maizein. You're right, because even if many other countries can in fact trade with Cuba it is all very US-regulated and limited.

For god's sake! The embargo limits all possible forms of development for Cuba! Proof of that is the fact that a bunch of musicians can't even give a concert in Cuba without the Miami Mafia flipping out about it and start making empty threats! What, that's communism's fault? Becuase both US and Cuban government gave thumbs up for that concert, the only people bitching about it were a few Miami Cuban-Americans...

curtisreed, is very easy to blame everything on the perpetual US-made threat of communism, but history has taught me that's nothing but a "empty headed horse hockey"

yeah because it surely wasn't american terrorism or the crippling embargo or anything.

Thanks to the communist system over there, thats not necessary, it does it all by itself.

you're Cuban???

That's so sad.

The only thing that is sad is how this government has destroyed my country. What's even sadder is that there are people who defend this government...

You should come to Miami some time and get to know the millions of Cuban exiles that live here, so that they can tell you from their own experiences what it is like to live over there.

One of the reasons why Cubans sometimes don't get along with other Latin Americans is because other Latin Americans tend to sympathize with the Castro regime.

No, it is not sad. It is my duty to oppose that government that oppresses my country.

US tried that in early 60 didn't overthrow the good old revolutionaries. I can't imagine Cuba without one or the other Castros or even a small change from the way they run the country now. Good luck to you

The good news is that the old communists are dying off and they are running out of people to replace them that believe in the communist ideals with the same conviction that they did.

mariana, why is it sad that he's cuban??

what kind of question is that? just because their heritage is rooted in a country associated with years of social issues or war doesn't make it sad to be of that culture.
people with those kind of statments or judgements piss me off.

it's just like meeting any middle-eastern person and telling them, "i'm sorry you couldn't choose ethnicity."

just thought i'd let you know, I DON'T LIKE IT and i perfectly respect a cuban openly discussing his thoughts on a revolution for his people

Oh you're a Miami Cuban! Now that makes perfect sense. I sould've figured...I apologise if I offended you by assuming you were American or saying I was sorry, I was just being honest. I do hope you didn't take me too literally as some others did.

I must say this: I don't defend Castro's government. I recognise that authoritarism has led him pretty much to a dead end street, quite pointless, really. In fact I consider him proof of something Latinamericans revolutionaries have know for decades: bringing some US-made or Europe-made system into Latin America will never solve any of our problems. We saw that all throughout the 20th century with various failed neo liberal governments (dictatorships) as well as communists ones (also a dictatorship), so I don't consider his a role model government

Nevertheless, I command him for standing up against Batista and the gringos' intervention, and on that respect (and that respect alone) I think we should all do the same, from Mexico to Argentina.

Of and FYI, I've been to Miami and I've talked to Miami Cubans. I know all of your arguments and I've heard (repetedly) everything you have to say, and I'll truly die a happy girl if I never have to set foot in that place again. No offense :)

PS: pandaman2105, that analogy you made is completely absurd. I didn't expect to be taken so literally. I lived in Cuba and I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Cuban culture (just like I do for any other Latinamerican society), but you're right, I should've been more careful with my phrasing. I apologise to you as well.

What do you propose as a solution? An American system or a more european one?

"The only thing that is sad is how this government has destroyed my country."

- Destroyed your country? Cuba was an American Brothel prior to the revolution.

"You should come to Miami some time and get to know the millions of Cuban exiles that live here, so that they can tell you from their own experiences what it is like to live over there."

- They left Cuba for one reason: $$$. Besides, people everywhere emigrate. We have Mexicans and Haitians (to mention a few) risking their lives everyday trying to get into the US. The only difference is they get kicked back, while Cubans are welcome to be used for propaganda against Castro.

I know one honest Cuban-American. He did not BS me with this story about being oppressed, having no freedom, blah, blah, blah. He was right to the point: He moved to the US because of MONEY. That's all. HE would not move ANYWHERE else but the USA. He came to "America" not for "freedom" but for cash!

"One of the reasons why Cubans sometimes don't get along with other Latin Americans is because other Latin Americans tend to sympathize with the Castro regime."

- Latin Americans in may dislike Cuban-Americans, not Cubans. They know Cuban-Americans are all full of it. They know the reality of Latin America countries, and they know you just move to the US because of $$$.

Cuba has one of the best social indices in world. It's compared to the indices of countries like USA and Canada (when it should not since Cuba IS a POOR country).

Get real! Missing the old days, when US soldiers could piss on the streets of Havana, and slap Cuban women on the face?

mariana's comments reveal a vile, hateful arrogance and ignorance. "Oh your a Miami Cuban"

WTF?

What you mean is a REFUGEE? Or the child of refugees.

I am SO disgusted wtih the whole "guzano" and "Miami Mafia" bullshit spouted by the liberals.

There are only TWO instances I know of where the testimony of millions of first hand witnesses is denied by people openly.

The first is the case of Cuba, where millions have fled and can attest to the harsh realities on the island, but liberals go out of their way to romanticize it with a revisionist history.

the second is the case of the holocaust, where idiots like Ahmedinijad still deny what happened.

So while some folks fancy themselves to be "enlightened" they are nothing more than liberal "holocaust deniers"

Hey, curtisreed, are you on drugs? What Cuba has to do with the holocaust (by the way, I'm assuming you're talking about the one that happened in Europe during the WW II)?

curtisreed, you are a hypocrite. In a different post you talked about how people such a M. Moore lick Chavez's boots, and that's not blantanly ignorant and hateful?

"What you mean is a REFUGEE? Or the child of refugees. I am SO disgusted wtih the whole "guzano" and "Miami Mafia" bullshit spouted by the liberals."

If you knew the first thing about Latin American modern history you would know that that is an extremely debatable subject. The fact that you discredit any evidence (and trust, there's a lot) of the Miami Mafia's existence shows how completely one-sided your posture is. You have no clue of the modern history of US-Latin American conflicts, at least let me assure you clearly don't all the available information, so quit embarrassing yourself.

And maizein has good points: I've never met Cubans outside of Miami who have come to me with some sad story about ther years in Cuba. The ones I've met so far (in Cuba and in Venezuela) have either defended the revolution or said the want to leave becuase of money issues, which is perfectly valid! That's a completely understandable reason to emigrate! Just don't give that boo-hoo BS.

And why are bringing up the Holocaust? I hope you're not trying to make an analogie, because comparing Cubans living in Miami to the people who suffered the Nazi Holocaust is beyond ridiculous. Get real.

No offense taken Mariana. But I do disagree with you on capitalism. Capitalism has a bad reputation in Latin America, mostly because it is associated with corrupt governments that allow foreign corporations to exploit their own people.

But that's attributing our ills top the wrong thing. The REAL culprit is the culture of corruption in our governments.

Capitalism is only an economic model that rewards hard work. The main reason why nothing is produced in Cuba is because there is no incentive to work. Those that work the hardest get paid as much as the people who don't work at all...

The problem in Latin America is that we are blaming the wrong people for our problems.

And keep in mind that Miami is THE heart of the Cuban exile community. The experiences that they speak of are the vast majority of the cases. To take the case of a few particular Cubans against the testimony of the vast majority of 2 millions Cubans living in exile is just cherrypicking (as cliche as that sounds).

And @ maizen, you said:

"I know one honest Cuban-American. He did not BS me with this story about being oppressed, having no freedom, blah, blah, blah. He was right to the point: He moved to the US because of MONEY. That's all. HE would not move ANYWHERE else but the USA. He came to "America" not for "freedom" but for cash!"

That sounds like cherrypicking to me! It seems you took what one guy said, and since it already fit with your pre-concieved notion of what Cuba is like, you accepted it.

So are all the other Cubans liars? Thats basically what you said when you said "I know ONE honest Cuban American"...

I don't always agree with curtisreed on everything, but he sure hit the nail on the head when he said that Cuba is one of the two instances "where the testimony of millions of first hand witnesses is denied by people openly."

Have you ever wondered why those testimonies are openly and widely denied? I'm sure not, but I assure you there are reasons, and they're not based on some twisted concept of xenophobia or religion (as is the case of the Holocaust deniers), it it based on social and political resentment towards the US government caused by decades of abuse. I understand that's no justification, but it is a culturally complex issue.

I really think it'd be a waste of time to turn this thread into a capitalism vs communism (or anything remotely leftwing) one. Let's just say I desagree with you completely in your description of capitalism, mostly because it seems very naive and utopic to me, almost completely disconnected from the facts, especially in our region. Capitalism only rewards hard work in an Ayn Rand book maybe, but in real life, it values money over life.

Like I said in an earlier post, I do not think "culture of corruption" is the real problem in our region, especially considering the fact that all goverments in the world have some degree of corruption. I really do think that generalized corruption is a symtom, a sign of a much bigger problem, which I don't think can be solved by adopting another country's system (that includes neo-liberalism), but by developing our own.

And I didn't mean to cherrypick, I was just talking about my experiences with the Cubans I know. They're limited evidently, but I was being truthful when I said I haven't met that many pro-US Cubans in my country (or in Cuba).

And as to the "apartheid" (maybe in light of African history you should be more careful with that word, it's really not as bad as that) I do see what the problem is, however, wouldn't that have something to do with the fact that tourism is virtually Cuba's only source of income thanks to the embargo? And considering Cuba remains a poor country without the funds to keep constant maintenance it seems understandable that they're a but zealous with tourist-orientied things...

@ vladbox: well, the idea would be to not imitate or import any system at all. For example, Lula has managed to better Brazil's general situation almost 200% since he arrived in office, without applying the exact values of capitalism or socialism, but instead managing a healthy mix of both, such as a free market that has a decent amount of government regulations, provinding the Brazilian people with both a strong public and privet sector. Granted, Brazil still has its fair share of problems, especially of the social kind, and it is a very peculiar case in the region, but it is a good example nonetheless.

If there is any revolution is Cuba it would be like the ones in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, where people rose up and overthrew their oppressive communist governments...

Unlike many other Latins, Cubans tend to be much more conservative when they reach the United States. This is in reaction to living an entire life under a collectivist system.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we overthrow the regime that is holding our island down, that Cuba will be one of the most prosperous countries in Latin America, the way it was before the 1959 revolution.

Urbangypsy, you couldn't possibly be more wrong. You could try but you wouldn't succeed.

Those Eatern European revolutions are just changing an evil for a lesser evil but an evil nonetheless! If not, look at Georgia and what that idiot Shakaasvilli has done. The man is like Bush with an accent and couple more working brain cells.

All Cuba, as the rest of us in Latin America need, is for your government (Democrat or Republican, is all the same right-winged crap) to stop considering us your "backyard" and allow us to develop a system that works for us. It probably won't be Capitalism ('cause that has worked wonders for you guys) and it probably won't be Communism, but we'll decide if Revolutions are needed, and when we do (like so many South American countries have recently) we'd love it if you could stop intervening! We don't need nor want you to finance us and "help" us like Estarn Europe did, because we know the price.

Bottom line: don't compare our political situation to that of Eastern Europe, because even if there are a few similarities, there is also a major variant: US involvement. And that changes everything.

From the way you were talking I assumed you were American. My apologies.

Capitalism never destroyed Cuba, communism did. Castro overthrew a dictator that came before him. But Batista never got in the way of private enterprise.

Before 1959, Cuba had the largest middle class in all of Latin America. The Cuban people overthrew Batista because he was a corrupt dictator, not because there was widespread poverty in Cuba.

Americans need to stop lumping all of Latin America together. Poverty the way you see it in Brazil, Bolivia, or many other countries in Latin America was not something that you saw in Cuba...

Slums and favelas were not something you saw in Pre-1959 Cuba.

Furthermore, people in Cuba supported Castro because he was against Batista, not because he was communist. They hated communists... it was only two years after he came to power in 1961, AFTER he had taken everyone's guns away that he declared that his revolution was communist.

My point is that the 1959 revolution was not a revolution against capitalism, it was a revolution against a dictator.

Castro later betrayed and killed many of his confidants when they began to express concern at Castro's appointment of known communists to the government. Men like Huber Matos and Camilo Cienfuegos as the biggest examples.

Again, Cuba's revolution was NOT a reaction to capitalism, regardless of what Castro likes to say in his big speeches...

Cuba's poverty wasn't caused by Communism, it was caused y the embargo and the US intervention.

"My point is that the 1959 revolution was not a revolution against capitalism, it was a revolution against a dictator."

I never said the 1959 revolution was against Capitalism.

BTW, I lived in Cuba for a few years not long ago. Never ONCE did I see anywhere the misery y poverty I've often seen in my own country (Venezuela), so you're right, Cuba hadn't seen poverty like that in the past and it hasn't seen it now.

"Men like Huber Matos and Camilo Cienfuegos as the biggest examples."

Castro having Che and Cienfuegos killed (among others) is a conspiracy theory, and nothing more. The day he confesses or somebody not related to the US government proves it, I'll believe it. Until then...

"Americans need to stop lumping all of Latin America together."

On different circumstances, I would agree, but what exactly is it you mean by that? That Cuba never suffered the same problems as the rest of us? That US intervention is not to blame for most of those problems? Get real.

Cuba may have suffered some of the same problems that other Latin American states did, but turning to communism was defintely not the answer.

The problem in our countries is corruption. And Castro hasn't done anything to solve that... The system in Cuba is extremely corrupt and authoritarian.

"Cuba may have suffered some of the same problems that other Latin American states did, but turning to communism was defintely not the answer."

That's debatable, but in Cuba's case, I agree.

"The problem in our countries is corruption. And Castro hasn't done anything to solve that"

I desagree. Corruption and high levels of criminality are just symtoms of a larger problem, which is (in short) the lack of an effective system for our countries' develpoment.