Reid eyes tax hike on wealthy to pay for health bill

I would really love it if someone came out with a website and TV channel based on how Current originally was designed to be, user created content. I would setup shop there in a heartbeat. This website has been consistently sliding to the dark side of the Main Stream Media, catering to big corporate interests, PAC's and censoring free speech of certain individuals because of their controversial views.

man times are bad -- i heard that obama might have to lay off some msnbc anchors.

Wow, I thought Regan was crazy after he developed Alzheimer's. Countries like England have been using socialized medicine since just after WWII. Doctors there get to choose where they work, get to make decisions about their practices, and patients get to choose their doctors and get to choose what hospitals they go to. The way it works is that doctors and hospitals get money from the government based upon how many people they treat. So instead of evenly distributing patients to doctors and having no choice, hospitals instead have to be competitive in order to keep their patient numbers up to get more money from the government.

And what the hell is this crap about a doctor being reluctant to say how a healthcare plan will effect how he does his job? Well Regan's a patient, and so are we, so we can speak on their behalf? Utter bullshit. A patient is not a doctor. That's like me saying I can speak on my car mechanics behalf because he is reluctant to speak for himself.

This boils down to a shill of communist witch hunt scare tactics, patriotic babbling, and inaccurate historical facts. The one true revolution my ass. The French Revolution replaced a monarch system with a republic, and was potentially much more violent as the overthrown people of the ruling class was beheaded.

AWESOME!!

You are my new favorite character on CURRENT. Either you are totally nuts or have a very sarcastic sense of humor. Either way I love it. Keep on posting....

BTW - No such thing as devils.

READ THE BIBLE! IT WILL GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS TO YOUR HOMEWORK!

LOL I'm sure there are better sources out there that can get you up-to-date and informed about whats going on in the world.

@unclepete813, did you forget to take your thorzine this morning?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Jubal.

If I can't be me, who could I be right?

Unfortunate, but well said.

I trust you have looked at the bill. The things you have stated sound reasonable. But I do fear Dennis Kucinich is correct again, yet no one is listening. I hope the things in the bill pasted yesterday, because they are all important. But, what will they give up in the Senate? Where is the excessive deductible issue covered?

And Dems are slamming him for standing up for the people.

Great John Dingell. The guy who said he couldn't be bothered to read those lengthy bills. Leadership, what a concept.

if you mean the liberal neo-conservative medical industry such as phrama and signa have a mighty good grip on our political system and we need to get the money out of politics.

That's America. Love it or leave it.

"that she allowed" ?????
What kind of democracy is this?

Back room, Sam, back room, where she allowed.

Current,

You are proud of this? You think that this is ok? Is there room for dissent in your party? Is there time to read the bill?

Oh please sam. 39 members of the Democratic party in the House of Representatives dissented and there are dissenters in the Senate. Now, I'd like to point out that every time someone answers a question of yours, you just go onto another one, ignoring the answers that are given to you.

In addition, you act as if legislating was simple, you think making a medicare for all bill wouldn't be 1,500 pages long. There are books, upon books, upon books of law just dedicated to medicine, medicare, medicaid, health insurance, hospital procedures etc. There are years of legal history and arguments that need to be addressed. Complex #s and calculations must be taken into consideration. To be honest sam, not everything is as easy as you and others like to think it is. and btw, Rep. Cao (R-Louisiana), among others, have stated they have read the bill. Now it's up to you to take them for their word and if you don't, go read it yourself. I've read enough summaries of this bill, and I've heard from my Representative directly (Robert Andrews D-NJ 1) who co-authored the bill. That and skimming over the bill satisfies me.

I vote for all those that ALWAYS support the status quo regardless of how crappy it is to have a dick stamp on their forehead. :)

@courage, Oh like the mark of the beast? LOL

Men who soak their testicles in very warm water can prevent women getting pregnant for 4-6 months, a trick we have forgot. We let doctors slice us up with vasectomies since insurance pays for it. Extra heat prevents spermatozoa from maturing, which was also discovered (re-discovered) not many years ago when men who wore tight underwear were unable to get their wives a successful pregnancy.

Holding the scrotum and balls up close in to the body was causing the same effect (infertility) as the hot water soak. On the other hand, this wonderful women-pressured vasectomy epidemic has been causing an Immune Reaction to older men. Sometimes slarabee the Ancients knew better solutions.

Ahh but those methods are not nearly effective enough to be considered dependable and unfortunately the ramifications of an unwanted pregnancy are long lasting.

You're dodging slarabee. The women want us to suffer something; vasectomies fit the bill. They believe men get off too easy so we are coerced to let our testicles be exposed to germs to satisfy their need to see us men bleed a little for the pleasure of our addiction to having sex with them. This method is less than 100% because no man has had the balls to perfect & market a product that delivers.

Strong evidence has surfaced showing that when a man's sperm are held from being ejaculated it causes Immune System to get screwed up. Dodge some more if it makes you happy. We men are bleeding on the women's altar a bloody sacrifice as primitive as any previous civilization has ever devised much less tolerated.

Human butchery is human butchery. Same goes for circumcision. Blood dripping off a male is still blood dripping, and in my book blood dripping should only occur when necessary, not to placate females of the species.

I had both done to me and I have not yet prospered from either, so if these two surgical operations were done on me and I did not prosper then who th' hell did?

Ah but not all men that get vasectomies do so due to pressure from women.

I will be getting one (as soon as I have health insurance again) just becuase I am not taking any chance of getting another woman pregnant. 2 children is my limit. It is a personal choice.

However I wish that there were some other option for me in the form of a long lasting highly effective shot. :)

Well slarabee I wish you well I surely do. Surgery has come into great acceptance, but if you had fought with MRSA a couple times like I have, and knowing that MRSA has increased recently, I have to suggest you search a long time for a better answer. Surgery is never supposed to be the first line of defense. +

When you have the vasectomy done it's usually in the doctor's office (outpatient). There's only the two of you present and you can't see a damn thing what he's doing. If he makes a mistake you have absolutely no witnesses present at your vasectomy therefore also just as absolutely no legal recourse in the event a mistake occurs. And if perchance you happen to have your mechanical stuff in a different place will the urologist notice and compensate? +

So far you have been fed some generalities. Let me fill in with the specifics those other guys didn't have or are too red-faced to admit happened to them. For starters, we are all each a unique individual. When a doctor or surgeon or in this case a urologist goes to scalpel at our body parts they do so with their fingers crossed hoping we aren't different, and that everything we have operates the same as every other man they ever worked over. That sir is their assumption. +

After my vasectomy I found sexual pleasure had been slashed also... to the tune of around 60-75%. Those "sexual pleasure explosions" were missing. I can still of course have ejaculation and you might call that orgasm but the mental orgasms I had from sex previous to the vasectomy were gone, erased.. Without witnesses or proof of any kind I went to another urologist and explained this. He did all but laugh in my face. Ever been laughed at slarabee by another man because he knows he owns the home court and you own nothing? +

And he sure as hell backed up his medical comrade down the street too. He said to my inquiry about a "major nerve being cut" he said "there is no such nerve". End of story. However, a few months later while taking a shower and washing down the area my hand happened to barely brush the skin over the spot (above the nerve he said didn't exist, where the cut was made on the right side) and a massive mental orgasm almost dropped me to my knees in the shower. The last I would ever have. +

I had one big mental pleasure left and that was it. No more since January 1984. If you want to walk into a meat grinder like I went into, that is surely your decision but it's a stacked deck. You take your little Constitution of the United States of America and that other worthless piece of parchment crap called the Bill of Rights and flush em down the toilet before you lay down on the operating table. + They won't help you later. They never existed.

Oh, I forgot. During the vasectomy one of my vas deferens was apparently too short for him to deal with so he tugged down on it. He pulled me loose up inside where the line stops at a little pooling sac I guess ya call it. He pulled that sac out of place. It may have been a year or two later when one day it popped back in place.

No witnesses slarabee the man does whatever he wants to you.

I would have much rather had a hand amputated than the sexual lobotomy I received from my vasectomy. Or an eyeball knocked out. And then when you go to another doctor to "get a second opinion" and ya find out his opinion is your doctor's opinion, and the horror slams you inside your brain just how poor a decision you actually made....

I could see where many a man who has went on a shooting rampage could have had this result and they snapped. It's more than stepping into a gas chamber or being a simple bullet in the back of your head. It's having your humanity shook out like a dirty rug and whacked with a broom.

I decided that whenever the subject would come up I would not do to them what my cousin Henry did to me, telling me all that garbage how great sex was afterward. I notice he got divorced also. Some men would send thousands of other men over Niagara Falls in an Indian basket rather than admit they made a mistake in judgement.

Fact is slarabee, we're White guys, light complected, not big balls football players of the darker genetic tree. We need to be cautious of people telling us something's good for us because hey, it was good for them, because we ain't them. Same difference with the "national minimum wage", they use the same argument on men and women alike saying well, "that's what we start new people out at".

Excuse me freako human resources I'm not those other people.

These arguments have been used to hammer us into a dozen different coffins.

As they said in the movie slarabee when Harrison Ford chose the goblet, choose wisely.

Good points slarabee! No matter what develops I won't be adding to your out-of-pocket (taxes). I do my own health care. See my comments above to Jubal for slants on the abortion costs.

Sam you are most likely correct but does it matter? The final vote was almost an even split, so even if only half read the full bill... I think they did a little CYA by pre-arranging the results in another room. Splitting down the middle looks to me like a smoke and mirrors maneuver. By splitting almost evenly they defuse the Public's resistance and anger.

I think they've figured out a way to make the judge withhold the noose. A real vote would be where everyone votes without discussion and hornswoggling trading favors and negotiating who pays for dinner and a movie.

You watch and observe how the majority of the Public who were highly angered are forced to sit back in their seat placated it was a "tough call". hahahaha These politicians are masters at psychology. They know how to walk past a French Revolution when they see one!

And I bet that if you counted all the grains of sand on the planet it would be 1,987,234,238,987,546,987,087,675,098,547,987,123,051 grains.

Anything else you would like to bet on that we have absolutely no way of proving or disproving?

Thanks for sharing.

Slarabee,

My point is that we can't have rational debate on whether this bill gives us the health care reform we need or not because no one has read it. Allowing everyone to enroll in Medicare would be a 1, 5 or 10 page bill. Why do we need anything bigger?

Gravity,

I'd like to think that our representatives should read the bill before voting on it. I am with you on the bigger point of back room deal cutting. I think it will take 6 years to fix the problem by voting them out one at a time.

Do you understand health policy now? I don't think so, its not your job to understand. you don't need that such fine detail. you just want to complain.
Though I do agree with your solution to our healthcare problem, we just both now that is more complex than we would like to make it, when we have such high numbers on such a touchy subject we can except some unfair things to occur and that we need a change in our political system.

Kivol,

I disagree. Expanding Medicare to cover everyone would not take 1500 pages of language for special interests. 4 or 5 pages maybe? My point is that there is a debate going on between people who have not actually read the bill. If they haven't read the bill then their arguments are baseless as they cannot know what is in the bill they themselves have refused to read.

@unclepete813, do much LSD?

@unclepete813, all I can say is WOW. That was one crazy comment!

This is either the dumbest most incoherent mess I have ever seen from a commenter on Current or a damn good joke or both.

where in the bible does it say that obama is the nazi antichrist?

Book of LaRouche

Jubal, even though abortions will not be covered for the surgeon (anesthetist and attending nurses) the larger cost of the operating room and the hospital bed/room should still be covered... if you wanted to be "fair".

So the "people cost" of the professionals would be right low just as you made note. It would then be very affordable indeed to have an abortion, at the same time satisfying all parties to the abortion discussion table.

Heck, maybe even the National Organization of Women.

Spread the wealth but also spread the pain.

Assuming the hospitals has the wherewithal [will] to do a split bill => a partial No-Pay to the abortion doctor & operating room team versus paying the full cost of the hospital room plus operating room costs, including drugs, anesthesia, tool cleaning and so on.

Solving abortion costs is easier than Solomon's baby.

Great points gravity_man.

1,000 less than when Congress started debating, that's who!!! ...ouch. Too soon?

OR WAS CONGRESS JUST TOO LATE? *ba dum chk*

Hurray indeed. We have worked very hard to get our social justice passed. Thank you so much for doing what you do best, not being part of the solution.

Great useless comment. Kudos!!

its gonna be a bumpy ride

Not yet.

Its true that cuts will be applied to medicare, but mostly to medicare advantage, a program in which the federal government gave more than enough subsidies to insurance companies but only a slight increase in benefits are added. In fact, the bill expands medicare coverage by closing the Medicare Part D "doughnut hole." So, in reality, medicare is being expanded but wasteful spending is being cut. Nothing wrong with that.

Politi-fact has a somewhat related article on medicare cuts.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/16/americas-health-i...

Medicare Advantage is run by the for-profit insurance industry and is racked with corruption. On the surface this change sounds good. We need to expand what's good about Medicare and Medicaid (which it seems they did) and cut out what's bad.

The ones who voted against the bill should be replaced. Except for those who are for Single Payer and eliminating the Insurance Mafia altogether.

At least 215 of em said no. If we start now, it will only be 6 years.

Yup.
But from what I've seen, this bill sucks as it is anyway. Kucinich seems to think so. That's why he pulled his amendment (unless they got to him too).

Things may have to get worse before they get better.

@EmperorThan, what a pessimist, fearmonger much?

Cherry this morning huh?

Not really. It ain't over yet. It could still be killed or delayed. It could still be changed drastically.

I hope so. :)

this is why i think we need a third party. (I prefer a more progressive third party) I wish we could hold the dems to the fire and say that this bill is too small of a stepping stone of what we really need. We still wont have 100% coverage and that bull crap.

I think it's begging to become that way since there's many independent voters now and young people who consider themselves republican/democrat but don't vote along party lines or wont vote for their party just because the incumbent is in the same party they're affiliated with. Just like what happed in NJ/VA last week.

Thats what I as a progressive want. I want people to choose between the federal/state program(medicare, medicaid, VA, etc) and the private market. I want them to be able to choose between either or at any time of their life. Though I do wonder why we need the choice. I can hardly tell the difference from one doc to the next, let alone tell you what an insurance company does for the medical system or how it provides choice. I also want the universities to be the center of research not these companies that have a seated interest. They care more about the profits than the science. They'll knock the science out of the way if profit is involved.

Thats why I am truly for a single payer non-profit healthcare system that puts patients and docs first.

The problem is that as long as they chan charge what they want and exclude who they want , we don't have the ability to reform anything.

This may be a boondoggle for private insurance companies. Take out the mandatory and I'm all for it. Put a mandate on private insurance companies, demand health care for our health care premiums.

How do you know if it is a good start? Nobody has even read the final bill because the Dems are still negotiating the final version.

the bill doesn't change dramatically in these neg there are changes and the representatives know or there staff know. Second there are tons of bills going through congress, reading every one when your not on every committee may not be a good thing. or we just need more representatives, but who knows. Medicare and social just like kenny said started more bare bone than it is and had to grow into the good programs that they are. No doubt they need fixing and updating but what doesn't need that?

At least their taxpayer paid staff can read the bill and brief them before the vote if they are just too busy to inform themselves of what is actually in a bill before voting on it.

When the dust clears I think we might have to face the fact that we all got duped and believed the hype bro! After all, it is a shell game. Do you really think the powers that be only play one side? They own the white house son!!!!!

Don't be silly. It will guarantee mandatory new policy holders. An insurance industry bailout! Party tonight at CIGNA HQ. Everyone's invited. Free beer!

I agree. This is actually absurd when you look at what they're really saying and attempting to do. The problem is that millions of people in the country don't have healthcare. Why? Largely because they can't afford it because the prick insurance companies have to gouge every last drop of profit out of the American people. The Democrats' solution: If you don't have health coverage now, don't worry. Starting tomorrow, it's against the law for you to not buy coverage for yourself. There ya go!"

Were anything to be mandatory in this bill, a person's income would determine if they were eligible for subsidy. A more in depth understanding of this legislation would benefit you.

sorry neocongo, but I don't agree with you on this one. I fear the new mandate will create the new debtors prison. Some people will not have more money, even if the majority of people think they should.

How dare the Congress and Senate put a mandatory on the American people, while just giving a gigantic 'bailout' to banks and financial institutions, with NO ACCOUNTABILITY! NO THREAT OF JAIL TIME FOR MISUSING OUR TAX DOLLARS. Ordinary Americans will be threatened with fines and possible jail time, if they do not buy private insurance. Private insurance companies have been spending our insurance premiums, not on our health care, but on buying our politicians, financing political campaigns and overloading Washington with paid lobbyists.

I'd say the 'FIRST MANDATE' should be on the health care industry and the insurance companies to spend our 'insurance premiums' providing us health care!!! Piss on the poor again? Many familites are paying for health care and still have a $4,000 deductible, that's not health care, that's highway robbery. What's a person to do?

If there is a public option, which there is in the House bill, the prices won't be as outrageous as the would be w/o public option - plus, more people will qualify for Medicaid - the House bill is the best of all bills proposed so far, in my opinion, and for goodness sake - WE NEED HEALTH CARE REFORM!! Let's do this while we can!!

I absolutely agree with you connie that the industry should be forced to pay for every dollar they take in pay 91(example, but no less than that, in my opinion) cents of that dollar to healthcare needs (Medicare is 93-96 cents of every dollar). not filling the pockets of the politicains or the CEOs. Sadly the private market expects a profit and will buy out politicains to favor them if they can. This is the real problem. Not the government mandate. First it shouldn't be a mandate it should be a right. you should be in the system at birth and till death. if you choose not to pay we should have an australian system where you pay more later(so if you choose to come in at 30 or 40 or higher you have higher premiums for not coming in at 20 or 30.)

we do need health care reform but this bill should have focused on INDUSTRY REFORM NOT HEALTH REFORM. Both are very important but we have a broken industry. It has gotten to a point that it kills 45,000 americans every year. People who can't afford to pay premiums, deductibles, and co-payments shouldn't be forced into poverty to pay their fair share. They should be taken care of by the gov, tax payer, the community, the rich sons of bitches that stole from us once again.

there are people who can afford health insurance but don't buy. When they need treatment they go to the emergency rooms and get free medical. This makes the rest of us having to foot the bill. The healthcare plan will allow the poor to receive funding to get health insurance. You have a mandatory buying of car insurance if you drive, and if you buy a home and get a mortage then you need home owners. Forcing others to buy will get rid of cheaters. The more policies in the public option will decrease the premiums by spreading the risk.

You uhm don't look like you need no health care anyway. Just a guess.

Excuse me? I haven't had insurance in 8 years. I DO need them to do something! But they won't. I am CONFIDENT in that.

My point still stands, even after they pass the bill in the House, this isn't news, it means nothing. It won't pass in the Senate and they'll start over from scratch. It's a meaningless pointless gesture to act like they're doing something. Congress can suck my fucking dick.

We all need it eventually

You can. Its been out for over 5 days. http://current.com/177km4c

Not the final version.....

the Stupak amendment is the only likely amendment to pass. It bans federal funding of abortion.

It will be changed over and over in the coming weeks anyway. it now goes to the Senate and then maybe back to committees and possibly even back to the house. It could get delayed or even vetoed by the President if he grows some balls.

Great discourse!!! Kudos!!!

How about you run a test on this and report back the results?

What's with neocons, tea-baggers - haters all, and guns? You can't make up for your short comings with large calibers - sorry.

You crazies are always talking violencel. Not all Republicans are KKK, ABT, or skin heads but all KKK, skinheads, ABT and other crazy white mens hate groups that identify with the Republican party.

Im a "crazy white man" and I dont identify with the republicans.

EZ Slarabee, you have to use small words or they get confused and upset I've found.

not all democrats are radical mao loving communists but all radical mao loving communists identify with the democratic party

great logic

liberalism- a viewpoint or ideology associated with free political institutions and religious toleration, as well as support for a strong role of government in regulating capitalism and constructing the welfare state.

conservatism-A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

Is it my pro-choice stance that makes you think Im a republican.
How about my pro weed stance.
Maybe its my anti israel stance that makes you think it.
Is it my commitment to the animal rights issues that make you think it?
Maybe its the fact that I think all the people involved with starting the wars we are in right now are war criminals, and should be prosecuted as such that. is that what makes you think Im a republican?
Maybe its my "9-11 was an inside job" that shows my republican colors, is that it?

Let me guess, you think it because im a gun rights advocate that slams losers who bleed the system dry with every check they got and didnt earn that makes you think Im a republican, isnt it? So personal responsability is only a republican trait? Then I guess your right, I am a republican.

Just to clarify my meanings behind "bleeding the system dry" It does not include those collecting unemployment. They worked for it.

yah i dont think i know a republican who is anti israel lol

The only people that should be packing that piece are the lobbyist and both parties work for them, not us!! They need to pass a law that requires all lobbyist fire these simultaneously, then and only then will we have true change in this country!!

Why are both sides playing the race card? If we must, todays biggots are the party of Lincoln who wanted to abolish slavery! And the dems of the late fifties and early sixties had some of the most racist senators of all times!! Shame shame, the irony!!

That would be unAmerican.

What about Switzerland? Its the same as the regulated utilities we used to have here. Its private, but regulated, and the stock pays dividends. Its a win win for everyone.

"If the people let government decide which foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

I just stumbled upon that quote. Don't you just love it?

What about when it's hard to see were corporations stop and government begins?

"If the people let government decide which foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

Fortunately, the government won't be able to tell you what medications to take, it will tell you what medications you can't take. If you are an adult, unless you are diagnosed insane, legally nobody can make you take any kind of medication. This will not change. Ideally it will be a government rarely telling you what medication it won't pay for as opposed to a corporation that constantly does so.

Varex: I can't support that, you're looking at the quote too narrowly. The government isn't literally "forcing" us to take anything with this legislation, but they will certainly be saying "This is covered by government sponsored health care. This is not. You are taking pill A or paying out of pocket for it."

We already send astronauts into space on the machine built by the lowest bidder. What hope to Joe Blows like you and me have?

In the sense of NASA, the lowest bidder is chosen in order to keep extreme costs down. There might be a reason why we not only beat the Russians to the moon, but also why we didn't go bankrupt in the process and they did. Lowest bidder helps to promote competition.

it's true. it does suck. The Weiner Amendment is awesome though. It replaced the whole bill with the language of HR 676.

Lets hope that all the confidence in the new administration is valid, because if not we must change our title from gen- y to gen- duped!!!!

Only applies to those who can't yet read. Y'all might want to go ahead an git yourself sum education.

It's on line can't you read or are you ignant?

The old health care was: "American Health Care, when you're rich, fuck the poor!"

Ohhh hmm that sounds similar to the complaints about the passing of the Patriot Act... but the repubs passed that so its all good!!11 ...right? Now that the tables have turned it kinda sucks doesnt it?

"Sucks to be you doesn't it?"

MMMMMMM that compassionate bipartisanship is so wonderful to hear. You libs are like a bunch of five year old kids. Nothing says progress and change like saying "nyah nyah nyah, we passed flimsy legislature! SUCK IT!"

It's great to be me: I have no medical expenses, I'm in excellent shape, and I have a good job and a good education. Sorry if, even after all that, I don't think it's my responsibility to take care of every dumbass in our woefully health-ignorant country. I'd love to see the vital statistics of half of the people that voted in favor of this bullshit.

The problem is when you get laid off or hurt, unfortunately you'll be the first to stick you hand out for assistance and then it won't be "SOCIALISM" it will be your right as an American - because it's you. That's the problem with conservative thinking. It tends to be short sighted and selfish.

"unfortunately you'll be the first to stick you hand out for assistance"

You seem pretty confident that that's how I would react to adversity. Why do liberals think that people are incapable of dealing with their own problems without the government kissing every boo-boo and wiping every ass?

I'm an adult, and I deal with my own problems. You apparently think the rest of the United States isn't capable of taking care of themselves. This vote seems to prove you right, which is more depressing than it is comforting.

The problem is conservatives tend to take arguments to the extremes to support their weak positions. The government does not have to kiss every boo boo as you espouse. They simply have to promote the general welfare as stated in the Constitution.

What I don't understand is why is "freedom" so important if your simply trying to impose your will, beliefs and arcane ideology on others?

"They simply have to promote the general welfare as stated in the Constitution"

That's where judgment enters into the equation. You and I have two different ideas of what is required to promote the general welfare of the people. The hell of it is, everybody on both sides of the fence just says "fuck it, we're in power so we're doing this," and the citizens love to rub it in each other's faces when they get their own way. It's asinine.

I have to agree with you there, for the most part. The system has a serious design flaw whereby it makes the losers want to get back in power so badly they are counter productive to a point just this side of treason.

eldamon - so narrowminded that you think this is just a partizen battle.
The uninsured in this country could be covered just by eliminating the fraud in medicare, yet you buy into this scam that we need to hand over control to the federal govnment. You don't know when your being played by marxists who seek to take over power for themselves --- people like you are dupes, and we all are going to suffer loss of our sacred freedoms because of it.

Monte, ez with the sweeping generalizations and soaring rhetoric. You lose credibility almost instantly upon invoking "Marxism, Hitler or freedoms". Why are you so convinced the gov is out to get you and if they truly were why take such a round about manor? Moreover, can you name ONE "freedom" lost to the current administration and were you so animate about government take over when you were actually losing Constitutional rights under the previous administration under the guise of false war, patriotism and national security? I suspect you were just fine then so what's changed now pray tell?

So which of these awesome examples have you lost, as the question reads?

Yes, the Patriot Act required democrat votes to pass, but there was something behind the patriot act that really helped encourage many people to vote for it. Fear. Didn't the Anthrax scare, which oddly enough only targeted a few people who happened to be liberal, occur shortly before the Patriot Act was signed, or am I incorrect in that assumption?

mmmmm yes. That's the bipartisanship I was so excited to see from democrats. Wonderful.

All American women should start wearing face masks and head covering and shields, axes optional.

Immigrants pay sales taxes.

This is a social service. That means illegal immigrants are not paying sufficient taxes to justify qualification for these services.

Lets not forget the brothers, sisters, vatos and bubbas that are on welfare and not paying income taxes. Do they qualify? Who pays for them?

The feds are are going to be paying for this.
sales tax goes to the state, not the feds.

he would shit a golden brick.