Swiss find that gamers commit war crimes

No, you're a blood thirst, sociopathic war criminal.

I felt I could handle it quite well at 20. But I am aware many of my friends, some years older than me, could not handle it and would not understand the thematic ideas being addressed. They wouldn't even notice that this is a Russian airport. They wouldn't notice your squad is all Russian but speaking in American English. They definitely won't notice your an American pretending to be a Russian pretending to be an American.

Also,I tried very hard to kill the terrorists, but even with correct position I could only kill 3 of 4 anyway. They were heavy machine guns too, so it is even worse than assault rifles.

Games can most certainly become an addiction as the cause the release of adrenaline and other bodily chemicals. 5 hours a day is cool on sunday, or a sick day, I guess.
As for parents, multiplayer games allow for just as close or closer connections than playing board games with your family(I remember there being a big social push for "family game night" when I was younger.) If your gonna watch sponge bob with your 10 year old daughter, why not shoot some nazi zombies with your 16 year old son?

Oh If that is the case... there are already plenty of games that sometimes punish players for killing civilians. If the game is about Special a Ops team, you can certainly fail a mission by killing the civilians you are trying to rescue...

If they are asking for games to put some sort of message that goes something like "War crimes commited in this game are not acceptable in real life"... then thats fine, although I think everyone would just say "Oh well DUH".

Or firguring out which player was the 13 year old who's voice cracked when he called you a "bitch-ass n***a"

You silly little vegan. Eat some meat maybe you'll get smarter. If you were talking about u.s. soldiers and actual war you don't know what you are talking about. The geneva conventions rules of engagement were drilled into us by drill seargents in basic training. The main thing you overlooked is that terrorists don't qualify for the rights of the g.c. Read the geneva convention rules of engagement and you'll learn why if you're able to learn. But thinking the video game life with these games is anything like being in war in real life your probably unable to learn much. gl

I'm not sure, but is it because terrorists don't wear uniforms so they don't fall under the Conventions mandates?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I totally agree

agreed

That has to be the smartest thing you've said Delia.

It's far from the smartest thing she's ever said, but it's brilliant as always.

You GO "big D"!
LET ART B ART!

@Delia

I agree that video games are an art form. So is pornography, and yet we don't allow children to view pornography, do we? Parents who would allow their children to view pornography would be considered to be "unfit parents" by most social workers. And some video games border on pornography (ex. the recent controversy about the gay sex scene between an man and an elf).

I am not in favor of censoring and forcing creators to alter their content. If an artist wants to depict Jesus with a bull whip in his ass and drinking urine, that is the artist's right.

I guess my bottom line is that parents need to be more up to date about what their children might be engaging in.

I just read on a Youth Violence watchdog website that parents in far greater percentages monitor their children's television viewing habits much more than they do their children's video game usage.

I think that statistic needs to change.

@jubal

The thing is, not all video games are for children. (Comic books went through this kind of stereotyping as well; not all comic books are meant for children either. Cartoons too! That's why they all have rating systems!)

Most war games and things like GTA are NOT MEANT for children to play- now, does that mean they don't get their hands on 'em? Of course not- Just like, as you mentioned, pornography! At some point, kids get curious and want to experience things that are too mature for them, whether it's in magazine, television or video game form.

I agree 100% that parents need to decide what is appropriate for their children- legislation and regulation has done everything it can; an in depth rating system, requiring ID before purchases, etc etc. But in the same way kids are able to get things meant for adults like smokes, alcohol, porn and R rated movies, they will find a way to get their hands on violent games... parents need to be aware of what their kids are doing, but in many ways this exploration into "adult material" is a natural and normal part of growing up!

@jubal The gay dwarf is WAY funnier.(I'm assuming you are referring to Dragon Age:Origins)

@Delia: Games certainly helped me grow up.

Your absolutely right Delia. Young people will get their hands on things that are clearly meant for adults and there is a certain amount that can not be controlled completely.

Perhaps, the only thing left is to look at the video game marketing efforts much like they recently did with "flavored cigarettes". Maker sure that they aren't targeting their efforts aiming their advertisements on children.

I just can't get past the idea that violence is ingrained in art and it is very often depicted as the most effective solution to conflicts, that it desensitized children, beginning with Saturday morning cartoons where characters die and come back to life like Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck or Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner. As kids get older, as I got older, since the 60's, media arts have become more and more violent. Sometimes I get the feeling that peace is a pipe dream because mankind has been so inclined toward violence, as is evidenced by its history.

Wouldn't a good strategy to improve people's outlook on humanity to decrease or even eliminate violence from media arts? Isn't the responsibility of the artist to ennoble the human species?

LMAO

I LOVE YOU!

yay! :)

perhaps you will be pleased to know that i plan to use chrono trigger music from OCRemix for my wedding ceremony next year. ^_^

If that bride isn't me Imma stab that bitch.

i thought you loved me... please don't stab me... ;P

awesome! i was just reminded of this amazing game earlier today, in the new issue of game informer, has there choice of top 200 games and it came up like as the 9th or something.

if there were a christian theocracy, it would most likely be a non-violent revolution focusing on turning america back to its roots away from all this progressivism

Your dreaming. Theocracy is a violent regime.

theocracies have been known to be repressive (I.E. Iran) but i believe christianity could take it on a better course

he "believes", major LOL's

This , is dangerous propaganda . Homegrown creation of sleepers complete with coded words and commands for when the right gives the word .

There is a game being made that is essentially a simulation of the Battle of Falujah. Is this evil indoctrination taken to scary effiency or historical documentation taken into the new millenium or would it actually depend on the work the artists and programmer created and the interpretation of the individual?

jubal-
Of course there are video games that spread hate and try to indoctrinate kids, but that doesn't really help your point. There are also books and movies that do the same thing. That's why there is a system in place that at least attempts to prohibit children from buying them. We can't outright ban these things do to freedom of speech unless they are breaking the law. Children get a hold of things they aren't supposed to all the time, like drugs for example. That's why parenting is a smarter thing to focus on. Trying to change the content of media will not work, if anything, it will backfire, encroaching on our freedom of speech laws.

ibreak-
Please tell me you're joking or being sarcastic. Seriously. Bush is a so-called Christian, yet he invaded Iraq and blew up Afghanistan. Does that sound 'non-violent' to you?

If America were to go 'back to its roots' we would have slaves, women would be subjugated, no workers rights, etc... Progressive social movements are what eliminated those forms of oppression. This idea of the good old days of the Founding Fathers is an illusion. In fact, they are the one's who were smart enough to separate Church and State, and implement the Freedom of Religion.

@flyingkick, thank you for your response. I appreciate the time you took to write it and I have read it. I agree that the free speech of the creators is important to protect, even though some may find it objectionable.

I guess my bottom line is that the way these things are marketed and how they are used to target children needs to be looked at. Parents need to be educated more about being "good parents" I guess.

Have you ever read the book "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley? Do you remember the "feelies" the movies that allow you to feel the pain and pleasure, essentially the sensory reactions of the actors in the movie? Do you remember the scene at the castle where John was ascetically living and they caught him on a "feely" self castigating himself for lusting after Lenina? The blood orgy that followed the premier of the "feely", the imagery of that embedded in my mind. It depicted how people can easily be conditioned and manipulated to accept all sorts of horrors as "entertainment".

dude, that game scares me. More than like.. silent hill and resident evil scary.

maybe the parents should take more responsibility

Most parents don't and that is the problem.

You just crushed your own point, Jubal. PARENTS are the problem, not the games.

Parents are a big part of the problem, but the games are getting a little out of hand. More care needs to be exercised in preventing these clearly adult games out of the hands of kids.

Plus you can't blame everything on the parents.

The makers of the games market their games to children in the same insidious ways that cigarette makers market their products to children.

Why do they run their commercials for Rated M games on channels and during TV shows that are watched for kids? Hmmm?

the rating system is not for the kids its for the parents but some parents are so naive that they buy their 10 year old grand theft auto 3 because they think its just a game

i would agree with you jubal that some responsiblity has to go to the gaming industry in creating games that arent too violent,and with the rating system i think the gaming industry is very responsible in that respect

but im placing the blame wholly on parents

The problem is with your family relatives, not the games themselves. I've known kids like this (video game addicts) and they are a minority. The problem lies with the parents who allow their kids to waste their lives away in front of a TV screen.

You remind me of the people that bitch about the "inappropriate" stuff on cable and don't bother to set up parental controls for the TV.

I find it hilarious that you never hear about this kind of studies on movies either. Why aren't actors running around in society wreaking havoc? They actually act out the violent roles they play in film and become that person. Instead they are celebrated every year with awards shows.

Giving a kid Doom to play is just as dumb as letting them watch Kill Bill. There is a reason why they put age requirements on the boxes. Plain and simple. I had friends growing up who could watch whatever they wanted because their parents just didn't care. There is always going to be bad parenting.

Also if your nephews gave up college for World of Warcraft then they would have never amounted to anything anyways. If it wasn't WOW, then it would have been either beer, weed, or internet porn.

Ciggarettes should be illegal cause children could possibly get them? Kids could get Alcohol, should that be controlled more tightly? What about mature books, Communist Manifesto, The Prince, Candide? Kids could go to the library right now and read about space marines shooting zombies, why is it so horrible if it is in a new medium?

I agree with your statements that put the responsibility on parents. But I also know that companies do unscrupulous things to generate profits and targeting children with marketing schemes and thinly disguised brainwashing techniques is rife on Saturday morning kids television.

Me, as an adult person, I love the characters from some of the video games and I have even paid to see movies based on video games and cartoons. I know the difference between virtual and real. I am not down on adults having their entertainment.

Please don't take it personal when I extend my criticisms about violent video games. Unless you feel like the shoe fits? You shouldn't be reacting as though I was censoring your pleasure or fun. I am narrowly talking about a few issues here, not attacking video games and their content as unacceptable to all.

Agreed.

It's bad enough when Bible-thumpers and Joe Lieberman whip up a moral panic over violent video games, but I don't like seeing it from progressives who should know better, either.

ugh,, what do I have to do to get a recommend button??! :)

Think about it for a second, these are 'games' sold in the gaming section with bright colourful packaging and 'cool' heroic artwork. Of course kids are gonna want and get their hands on them.
The advertisements are all over the place...do you think some kid between the age of 10 -18 is gonna have a hard time getting something that is only for over 18s??? Kids can get their hands on real guns, drugs...all sorts of stuff that you or I should not be able to get but it still gets through.

So don't be naive, of course they shouldn't get it...but they will.

It's not just the kids either.

What should happen? As always, is education. As long as they know that this kind of behaviour is not tickety-boo in the playground. They should know that terrible things like this have actually happened and what they are having fun playing around with has actually happened.

And no, I'm not a moron and neither are the kids, I don't think innocent little Timmy is gonna grab an oozie and shoot up his school because of a game. But there are other effects. I enjoy these games myself, I have played them, will play them but as they grow more realistic I do believe that such violent images are not good for the minds of any, nevermind and impressionable kid.
They and you and I are being desensitised.

I don't think anything will be banned, they are not worth banning, that will only give them credibility.

Games are brainless, why would they ban such think crap it is of no threat to the powers that be.

Nettle did a good job explaining. and another poster brings up a very valid point about "getting your hands on something illegal or something that we're not supposed to have".

I think some of it has to do with the kids being forbidden to have it. It makes it all the more fun for the kid to hide it from mom and dad (just like smoking and drinking).

I do a lot more than just game. But I would be very disappointed if I got the new Metal Gear game and it had nothing but flowers and rainbows. If I'm not mistaken, in a lot of the games where you are allowed to shoot innocent non combatants, you are punished with a game over screen or something else (loss of points etc). There are a select few that actually reward you for such behavior.

I grew up in the 80's. I do recall discovering Splatterhouse (on the tg-16, and I saw it in the arcade as well) in my early teens. I loved that game, but it didn't turn me into a bloodthirsty killer of women, children, and grandparents. I knew that what was happening on screen was not real, and that it was there for entertainment.

Lots of you have the right idea: Tell that kid that what's going on in the screen is not real, and that it's just meant to entertain him/her... don't base your entire life on it. I learned this at a young age, when I was scared of a movie, I got over it by mom and dad teaching me "it's not real, don't be afraid of things that aren't real"

Who the hell chooses Warcraft over college?! @_@

When a friend asks me if he should keep playing warcraft and keep his dead end job, I try to convince him that he should probably spend a little time reading some books or even pursuing some higher education.

... I've never been so stunned and turned on at the same time.

Don't be stunned, I wrote my thesis on this subject. I know my stuff. As for getting turned on, that's pretty normal.

The "Zombie Survival Guide" is quite a good reference as well. Read it now, you will be glad you did later. In fact I don't know why it is not added to every schools curriculum. What use is" The Great Gatsby" when faced with the living dead?

Because Zombies are make believe, while the Great Gatsby is based on real life.

Niiiiiiiiiice!

holy crap. HAHAHA

This had me rolling on the floor laughing.

i lol'd

pwn'n noobs takin gamertags

LoL! Pure win.

doom wasn't made for 6 year old children. these games have rating systems just like movies. of course a game will have some effect on a person. so does a movie. so does another person speaking to them. holy crap, maybe we should ban anything that may possibly influence our children.

"Doom wasn't made for 6 year old's" Try telling that to my former Brother n Law. This guy is a video game addict as much as he is a drug addict, too.

The video game violence and the exposure of those games on my sister's children was one of the major causes of their divorce; their disagreement on how to parent the children.

But the effect of the game on the 6 years old mind is undeniable and easily observable, even in family videos. You never saw such temper tantrums in your life.

Maybe you have weak genetics, bad sibling parenting skills, or they have a grumpy ole uncle. It is never one thing that makes boys aggressive and blaming video games is nothing more than a scapegoat.

I recommend you read what Nettle posted. I couldn't have said it better myself:

Hello article, meet Nettle's rage.

This "study" is bullshit. Here's why:

"games are sending the wrong message to the world’s youth"

If... these were games for children. MW2 is rated M for Mature which has an age limit of 18+. No, I don't think that kids should play violent games like this, but this isn't a game for kids, therefore this argument is irrelevant. Thirteen out of the nineteen games that were tested are rated Mature while the rested are rated Teen. These aren't games for kids.

"The Swiss found that the following things were currently allowed in popular war video games, killing civilians, torture, unnecessary destruction of buildings, killing of combatants who surrendered, the use of heavy anti-vehicle weapons on on-foot combatants, and finally, the destruction of churches and mosques."

All of those things happen in real warfare. Pretending that they don't exist by censoring them from games is silly.

And why only games? If everything needs to follow the Geneva conventions, we have to burn everything in the bookstore except the kids section and R-rated movies are going to get banned. Gaming is media, not real life.

They kicked themselves in the ass by choosing games like True Crimes: LA. A game like that lets the player make moral decisions and allow them to CHOOSE whether to be bad or good. If they really wanted to do this right, they should have picked the games that give you no choice.

And don't you also think it says something rather interesting that illegal actions are usually done by choice?

I understand that some people think games are real life simulators; this is completely false. Just because people actually have to think (you know, using their brains) while being entertained, doesn't mean that they're being brainwashed. There are mentally unstable people that will use games as an outlet for their anger and rage (Columbine shootings) but they in no way are the sole cause of violence in the player. We're also not 'committing any crimes' by playing a game. The gamer knows the line between fantasy and reality. Your typical fanboy will know how to press that button to reload his machine gun, but if you put a .30 caliber, 31 pound M1919 Browning machine gun that's still smoking and hot from hours of battle into his hands, he's gonna shit his pants and not know what to do with it.

If you want the actual article and not this little annotated version, go here. It's far less biased: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8373794.stm

There is only one game I have exposed my 7 year old to "journey to wild divine " . This sort of game can strengthen internal controls . The developing brain of a child is constantly strengthening neuro-pathways . The emotions you experience and level of adrenalin become what they need to feel normal . Out of balance intensity is not a good place to live and make wise choices . Kids play video games too old for them in my neighborhood . I do not believe this is healthy for them . Their inner emotional balancing thought patterns are not developed enough . Many will loose their psychological balance and become drunk on emotion and addicted to this state . Life is too wonderful to be swallowed up by something that is not a genuine human interaction . Especially if it warps your mind to hypersensitive perception of aggression and belief that violence is an actual problem solving method .

Well then you can blame the father for being an unfit parent. Although gamers may not agree, the ESRB ratings on games serve a purpose: to ensure games are only sold to the proper age group.

And about games being destructive: I've been playing games like SWAT and Tekken since I was a little kid. I've been a gamer my whole life and I do play those shooting war violent etc games. And you know what? It's fine for me. Call of Duty 5 gave me a deeper appreciation for the courageous feats of our armed forces. I found it wrong to commit actions in games which are contrary to the Geneva Convention.

Despite having a played violent video games, I'm still someone who actively works with humanitarian organizations and volunteer groups. I seek out information about the Geneva Convention and International Humanitarian Law. I still want to work for an NGO in the hope of making a positive impact on the world once I graduate. My cousin played the same games I did. He's now in university taking his masters in engineering.

You can't take an example of a parental failure and use it to generalize. It ultimately boils down to the person and whether or not they have the mental capacity to handle these sort of games.

First off, no parent should let their 5 year old play Doom. It' s really the parent's fault for not having a handle on their kids playing games. The games have a strict rating system for a reason. When I was 13 i asked my mom to buy a m rated game, she said no, and i was alright with that, I simply waited until i was older. Second, it's NOT real. It is fiction, like a book or a movie. Yes it may be real looking but it is fiction! If you cannot tell the difference that is very sad indeed.

My behavior changed greatly after I read Anthem. Are books therefore tools of indoctrination?

The key to your argument is "weak minded individuals" and "kids" as the target. Censorship is bad but point of purchase control I am entirely in favor of. Kids shouldn't be allowed in R movies and they shouldnt be allowed to play M games. They should be watching Disney movies and playing Nintendo Games. The medium is(should be) not the issue.

I never said that video games should be banned. I was stating my observations. No i am not a grumpy uncle that has it in for video games. I used to play video games myself. I played Doom, I played Duke Nukem, I played Tomb Raider and then I decided that spending 8 hours a day playing video games was a waste of my time, when I could be writing music and playing with my band mates. Video games was a fad in my life that lasted 6 months, tops. Going to college and getting a degree was a much better use of my time.

What could be interpreted as being a "boor" on my part is that I am not going to economically support young adults (my nephews) by providing them room and board so they can sit for 10 hours a day playing their games. While they stayed at my house, they were playing their games from Noon until 4AM the next morning, then they would sleep and wake up and do it all again the next day. They would not help to do any chores in exchange for my financial help, except for one of them, who always worked and helped out, but he didn't play his games more than a couple hours at the most. He also played guitar and was in a band, so that may have had something to do with it.

My philosophy is live and let live. My stand is that I don't want to see these violent video games RATED M to fall into the hands of children who are vulnerable to messages conveyed in them.

I am not attacking adults. If you want to spend your life in a virtual world, have at it. Knock yourself out. I am not here to insult you or demean your art or whatever. My stand is for children: PERIOD.

@purem, I agree with what you said. There are adults who are gamers who have very productive lives. Kudos to you and to your friends who do.

Well your right on target with all that. The reasons you listed is the exact reason I don't play World of Warcraft any more. Eight hours a day is horrible, unless your getting paid. Personnaly, I get in an hour or two a day(if at all).

nope actually switzerland is governed by the socialist party

their current pres. is conservative though

@regjoeschmo, they indoctrinate boys in the ways of war and of mistreating women. I thought you were concerned about the image of men in the world and improving the way they are treated. Don't you think that setting limits on games that influence men to act in improper ways is a good thing when it comes to your larger goals?

considering this is a direct reply the @____ is unnecessary...

how about the parents taking a role and explaining that there is a difference between games and real life... teaching children critical thinking skills will prevent indoctrination..... You assume a lot about me jubal, and your not even half right....

I assume a lot based on how often I see you and Motherfortruth commenting on the same stories. I actually do read your posts and you do seem to be in favor of improving the way men are looked at in this country? Are you telling me that this is a false assumption?

Most parents who allow their children to play video games for hours on end, are allowing the video games to be the babysitters. Most parents who truly care about their child's well being wouldn't allow them to play such violent video games.

Also the brain cannot differentiate between reality and simulation, the physiological reactions are exactly the same. The body is being conditioned to create and maintain certain hormone levels of things like adrenaline and serotonin.

@Jubal
I don't think anyone would argue a society without violence would be ideal. Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to emit violent video games, violent movies, violent books, violent coverage on the news, violent bullies on the playground, and violent parents from children's lives. That is the reality. It would be more pragmatic to educate children on the serious implications of violence and encourage alternative methods of problem solving. Of course that requires more patience and effort than simply banning that which reflects the reality of the society we live in.

More than entertainment, they are art. Art should not be being used by those unable to appriciate it. In example, in part of the new Call of Duty, the player is essentially a terrorist. Technically the player is undercover as a CIA agent but the idea of the ends justifyng the means is the theme of the art. If the audience isn't mature enough to handle that, I can understand.

It is true that games can cause the mind to react as if it was real, but again, this is something the parents have to explain to the children, so they are able to make a concious decisions when playing the games

I comment based on the inequality of expectations based on gender, you take it how you want to. but still why even bring this up in this debate?? Is it somehow relative?? Do these posts you speak of threaten you in any way??

Not at all. I agree with many of the posts that you and MFT post.

I was making a correlation with this about video games, because they are much more popular with men than they are with women.