School should not dictate prayer

I agree that prayer in schools should not be dictated by schools and that students should be allowed to pray as long as its not disturbing to other students. Also the reference to the bill of rights was great example why students should be allowed to pray if they wish to, and why government should not get involved with religion.

Another point that wasn't made though was how people have different religions and it would be wrong to force students on one religion.

I don't think the issue here is whether students should be allowed to pray in school. I think it becomes an issue when they demand the right to do it publically instead of privately. In my opinion there is no need to make a public display of one's beliefs. Indeed Jesus specfically addressed public prayer as follows:

"When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I assume that if one claims to be Christian, the above quotes would resolve the issue.

Why aren't you the nominee?

The problem is churches have more money than none religious organizations. What if a church starts sponsoring these school praying events, with candy, music, soda or clothes? What happens when the kids that don't support these well funded events get forced or pressured to be involves. Maybe even, told they will go to hell if they don't submit to church doctrine, leadership and yes even being molested. There are religious schools so if you want your kids to be molested by "lilith", I mean catholic "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith" take advantage of the private school system.

www.H2onE2.com if you thing we are doomed by religion and its environmental Revelations.

Good grief Jade. I think that's the one I got flagged on. I was rude to the freak. Shouldn't have done it, don't regret it.

Flagged once with a group that was getting a little too personal with the anger. Probably won't be the last. ;-)

jade, That is a badge of honor to have been so mad you said something you maybe shouldn't have. I got flagged for a rude remark to Huckabee. So you are in good company. Why did they get you?

Marilynn, dco, angelinah, chique, have you guys ever been flagged? I have... :(

I enjoyed reading this thread and watching you all respectfully and gingerly shut down "AntiLIb". I'm sure it would have been easy to beat him into submission, but I love how you killed him with kindness. It is truly the sign of a superior intellect.

-AntiLib, I know you are reading this. You've been licked kid. Quit while you are behind.

-Miss Priss...you are my new hero.

Praying in school? What happened to studying?

Would kids have the freedom *not* to pray to any religion while in school when Huckabee says he wants to "amend the constitution to fit with the bible"? I for one, do not trust Huckabee on this issue.

Yes, and, what Marilynn says too! ;-)

dco, Don't try to figure them out, they don't have enough between their ears to work with. I think they are kamikaze posters. They hear about Current and think they are going to come in here with their superior intelligence and wipe us out. It doesn't work out for them and they cut out. They never have a profile and seldom more than two or three posts. They are more often than not pretty dim witted and are always nasty. They are good for sport insults and a place to vent aggressions.

You're not close minded Roman. Assuming Anti is Christian, the frighteningly large demographic your speaking about has been indoctrinated that way by those in their churches whose radical thinking is close minded. The word religion was never used in the bible because religion is man's interpretation - thus so many denominations in Christianity alone. These types of people believe their very identity depends on defending every last word their taught in church and that they dare not question what they're told. Many Christians have stopped going to church because of the judgmental, self-righteous people some churches produce, but it doesn't mean they've lost their faith. I don't think those people who share Anti's state of mind represent the result Jesus had in mind.

You know what pisses me off about people like our hateful little friend here? This site was designed to be an open medium. Current. is viewer created. Still it has the liberal stigma, though. Why? because, it seems, they simply don't want to think. This battle is not between libs and cons, or whigs and tories, or religious and secular; it is between the rational and the irrational. Those who thirst for knowledge, and those who could care less, and subsequently become the product of whatever propaganda reaches them first. This is why people like antiliberal cut out. They make claims that they can't substantiate, because they cannot think about it. I really try to put myself in their shoes, but it's impossible. I've always understood people generally, and when it comes to this frighteningly large demographic, I am at a loss. If anyone here has insight on how they think, please share. I feel like I'm missing something, and like I'm being closed-minded.

You're a gem Marilynn_Murray!! ;-)

Miss Priss and Chique ran off the anal retentive Neo Con. Chalk one up for our side.

I was poking at him, but I genuinly do feel for people who are so angry. Reminds me a lot of my step-mother, may God bless her rotten soul. You know, this is kind of getting me thinking about the whole FOX thing. Considering that a heavily biased station like that is able to essentially impress ideas upon the minds of voters, I would think we could hold them accountable for at least the most obvious honesty-infractions. Or, perhaps they should have a disclaimer making it clear that they offer news entertainment value...kinda like the polar opposite of the daily show. I know it'll never happen, but it's crazy that they are able to call themselves "news" as though they simply report without bias. I personally, have signed a vow to never watch FOX news, but I still watch clips online. Honestly, it should be called the Fox News Entertainment channel, or something like that. Calling them news is like calling prozac all natural.

This "Anti" person that popped out of nowhere is either about 14 years old or his logic gene was left out. Poor deluded individual, I hope he gets it some day. As Conniepae often says for a different reason . . . "move on, nothing to see here".

LOL, and to think this actually works on some people AngelinaH!

We have that effect on people, don't we Chique? "They shoot, they SCORE!!!! The crowd goes wild!"

I'm betting Antiliberal will suddenly become unavailable.

"Make them go to private schools to pray so public schools get suck out my taxes for foot baths." Is this what your education got you? Hmmm. I think I'll pass. (P.S. Who here had footbaths at their public schools? I missed out!)

Miss Priss? Have we met? You are so funny ANTILIBERAL. I just want to give you a big wet sloppy kiss! Go ahead, say you don't want it. I'll pretend to believe you. How much you wanna bet I could turn you liberal? Ha aha aha ha! All you ever wanted was a little love and attention. Mama coulter was never there for you, was she? Don't worry about it...she's a cold frigid B*#@%, and you don't need her. Come to the other side where it's warm, loving, and rational. That's not to say you HAVE to be "liberal" to be rational...just not a scary, psychotic, close minded, hypocritical, and intellectually challenged excuse for a conservative. I guess I could be wrong, so I will AGAIN welcome you to educate me, oh great one. Your student is at your feet, awaiting enlightenment...Clearly I'm taking jabs, but I'm also presenting you with a real challenge. Up for it? Put your money where your mouth is big boy.

this makes Monicagate look like childsplay. Pun intended........ http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals

Antiliberal: I really feel sorry for you. Whatever your belief system is, it isn't serving you very well if you've become this closed minded and angry.

You say: "The very fact you libs come on here bashing anyone who thinks different than you is the reason YOU need help an education!" Since you're doing quite a bit of bashing here, aren't you doing the same thing you're criticizing?

And this: "You're right Huckabee won't get the nomination, thanks to your left wing media". I get it that you really believe this, but where are your "facts" to support "your" unsubstantiated ranting? You're being hypocritical and don't even realize it.

There are several religions practiced by Americans in this country. Should we just choose your religion because you believe it is the right one, or should we choose our neighbor's Islamic beliefs because he thinks his is the right one? Huckabee's inability to win the nomination probably has less to do with anything else other than most people believe in separation of church and state according to the constitution - for just that reason.

We have many, many facts as to why we should be angry with Bush as do 70% of the Americans in this country. If you haven't a clue what those are then it's probably because you only watch Fox News.

An another thing miss priss, I have just as much right to bash libs, as these Bush bashers do on here with NO facts to back them up. So if I'm crazy for speaking my mind and got under your skin GOOD! Save your shoulders for the Bush bashers on this site they seem to need it more than me. The very fact you libs come on here bashing anyone who thinks different than you is the reason YOU need help an education! Good luck in finding any.

Don't worry we'll still be praying for your cult.

HA HA HA oh liberal one. You're right Huckabee won't get the nomination, thanks to your left wing media. Talk about emotional, you need help honey!

To all others... Why can't we just agree that organized religion has no place in public schools? That's not to say kids can't pray, or discuss religion, but there needn't be any framework for it, or encouragement/discouragement. Pray if you want, talk if you want, but when the bell rings, go to class and learn about Nazi's and algebra. Simple! Perhaps those who don't understand this were busy praying while the constitution was being taught. That's okay, just pray to (enter deity here) for an understanding of the bill of rights, and try to pay attention in History class!

Ha ha ha hah a ha ha.... Shakespeare did teach us that comedy and tragedy can go hand in hand. ANTILIBERAL, do you need a hug sweetie? I thought I had a bad childhood, but it seems you got the locked in the basement treatment or something equally mind-altering. I'm sorry for you that you have so much bitterness and hatred pouring out of you. Why do you need to be anti-anything? I'm not anti-conservative. I am willing to listen to what you have to say, but that doesn't mean that I have to believe it myself. Relax, smile (a little), and most of all, open your eyes to reality, even if it is a shock to you. If you're ever in San Jose California, send me an email. I really, really, really, think you need a good hug and a shoulder to cry on. Where's doctor Phil when you need him??? P.S. Especially in your emotional state, I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but Huckabee will not get the nomination. That should be obvious to you by now. Didn't FOX tell you?

What A Great Country! We even accept idiots....that's how the Liberals got here. God help us all!

You have all the nerve to say my post is nonsense while on the other hand try to make it sound like Christians have rights in Public schools when you know they don't. Is that not hypocritical? Make them go to private schools to pray so public schools get suck out my taxes for foot baths. You make me sick! Grow up, learn the views on FOX a trusted news channel rather than your liberal news networks, you may learn something. Good luck with that!

I think we can ALL agree the past two posts are nonsense. They have no foundation, and are absolutely filled with propaganda. We needn't bother pointing out the obvious contradictions and idiocies. Anyway, I agree with theblockbuster on this one... to an extent. I am constantly plagued by egotism, and I frequently realize that I don't apply the same criticism to myself that I do to others. In this respect, I think that every time I have busted out into religious disputes with classmates, I deserve the same treatment as a religious student doing the same thing. My one opposition to this is motive. To make a general statement, a religious student would do so to "convert" someone, or convince them to change their religion, whereas I do so for greater understanding. I can't fathom the religious perspective, and argue for that purpose. Prayer is different than speech. Prayer associates the school with religious affiliation. If a school can permit *open* prayer from one religious group, but not another, then it is easily seen as swayed by religious predisposition. The word open identifies that if the prayer is not intervening on the typical course of events, it should be, and is permitted. This is so because no one could possibly know, and would not be justified in apprehending you, if you are praying in your head. There are no thought police... yet. I attend a prayer group before school, where religious students do all their ritualistic blather before they're confined by the law. If the prayer is a demonstration, then it should not be tolerated. Suffice to say, religion should not be associated with public school. If you need to pray that badly, why not go to a religious school? That's kinda the purpose of them, whereas public schools are for equal treatment of everyone, with no bias.

To answer the question above, if you follow after the Bible you automatically follow after the constitution.
First of all, this is a RIGHT wing Country, it's also known as God's Country. The ballots has Democrats, Republicans, or Independants, NOT LIBERAL. If you liberal athiest cult worshipers don't like that than go to Russia, I'm sure they'll appreciate your rants. (I could name a few other places that may like them too), but I'll be nice here. The liberals came in this Country to change it into something it's not. And I for one am a bit disgusted that libs have more rights than the Christians while my taxes pay for muslim foot baths.I have nothing against other religions, so long as they stop taking MY rights away. UNDERSTAND?

VOTE HUCKABEE!!!!!!!!

What you mean too much prayer? There's NOT ENOUGH! Quite frankly, if I have to hear the liberals garbage everywhere, like on this site, you need more prayer and MORE appreciation for the best president we have now. You people are are consumed with the left wing lies you don't even know what issues you're voting for because the lefties never gave any. The US is in huge trouble, thanks to the lefties. I'll be praying for all you hypocrites!!

hey, i created these hypothetical children and i say that both of them were causing equal disruption, and why did you sort ownership of the kids between us, you have no idea what my religion is. the point that i am trying to get across is that the first amendment should protect the free speech of everyone no matter what religion. and i know what liberals think because they tell me....imagine that

I'm worried that people like you won't be satisfied to enjoy their constitutional right to their religion outside of my right not to. My hypothetical child was minding his own business and not disrupting things. Yours was a brat and proselytizing. BTW, how do you know what Liberals think?

your religion is what you believe, and my post in no way attempted to "trample on the constitution", the exact opposite actually. and the first amendment does not deny rights, it gives them. your bias on the issue is clearly marked by your failure to acknowledge the equal disruption of the hypothetical atheist child and your irrelevant rant about george bush. you're not worried about the constitution, your worried about silencing those who disagree with you, even if they are children.

theblockbuster, Not so, NO ONE should proselytize in school. The key word is disrupting. If that little Christian child needs so badly to pray, tell him to bow his little head and pray to himself. Evolution is not a religion, it is science. Look at George Bush, if ever anyone looked like a monkey he does. In my estimation he proves the theory. Do you worry about the wars in the Middle East, global warming, or the economy that is in the toilet, or just offending me by trying to trample on the constitution?

ok, if an atheist or agnostic child started disrupting the class by speaking for his beliefs you liberals would say hes protected by the first amendment, but if a christian child did the same thing you would be against that and use the same amendment to back it up. prayer should be allowed but just not sanctioned by the school, if not, then we should take evolution out of science classes. the first amendment protects everyone.

Okay let's let religion have free rein in schools complete with prayer rugs, kids handing out wafers, others offering religious tracts, How about some snake handlers? Let's get real religious expression does not belong in school. Kids have enough to do with academics. Look carefully at the Middle East, religion is woven into the very fabric of their lives. It's not something we want to emulate.

"...as long as it's not disruptive to other students"

So Muslims wouldn't be allowed to pray, I take it?

Ah. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Whatever...He started his campaign with this kind of soft-core crap, only to increase the zealotry in smallish increments. He's finally gotten to the point where he admits that the "constitution needs to be ammended to fit GOD's standards". Don't quote the 1st ammendment Huckabee, just don't. You sound like such a hypocrite..Oh wait a minute, YOU ARE.

Oh hello, Mike.

Interesting to see a solid point come from you, in lieu of your constant religious blather.

the most important part is the point of prayer being a disruption to other students.

like " squonk" said about varying religious activities, where dose someone like huckabee draw the line of "disruptive"

What if someone's prayer included screaming at the top of their lungs, smoking ganga, sex, or killing a calf?

Crazy?

All documented accepted religious activities, should they be protected in schools as free speech and freedom to worship?

Public Schools should be free of religion and religious activity as much as possible.

Carbonated corn based sugar water and the cuts in the arts are sure to do more harm to kids and learning than, Johnny can't pray in public school.

I concur.

Too much religion is creeping into this campaign especially on the Republican side and it ought to stop because there is no religious test for office as is clearly stated in the Constitution and all this faith and religion jabber creates the false impression that an atheist could never even be considered for an important office which is one way to exclude some very good candidates as I see it.

That's just what I thought Jade. But there's a more important question here. It's easy to say, children can pray if they want, but what if they are not praying to Jesus? A more important question for a guy like Huckabee is, what's your first allegiance? If it comes down to the bible or the constitution, what's it gonna be? I'm not saying you shouldn't follow your beliefs, but when it comes to running the country...legislation...what's it gonna be?

Good and good to hear a person associated with the Christian right make sensible comments on this subject.

I agree--prayer is, and should be, a private, personal choice.

HEY, LOL, FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH YOU. :)