CIA chief to drag White House into torture cover-up storm

AngelinaH, you are right about the worship of the almighty dollar problem. I am not included in your (we). I have not and do not sell my soul for want of a dollar. It has to start with each individual, then combine into a movement.
In my humble opinion, George W Bush is as guilty as he can be for the current situation in America today. But the problem started before he became President. During the 2000 election, I cried out to mainstream media to tell the facts about George W. and Dick Cheney, they wouldn't. They acted as though they didn't know, or it wasn't important. They were spinning then, they are spinning now.
Mainstream media's lack of accountability is going to be the downfall of American values. Americans are denied information that inables them to make informed choices. Mainstream media is spinning Hanna Montanna right now. The local news in Cleveland spun her performance in Cleveland yesterday as the end all for Cleveland. It wasn't as important as they made it out to be. They kept talking about it, making people think everyone else cared about Hanna Montanna. Eventually, they will spin her falability when the need arises. They build hero's so they can knock them down when they need distractions from other issues. ACCOUNTABILITY, ACCOUNTABILITY, ACCOUNTABILITY.
Ordinary Americans think if the neocons and George W. aren't getting media coverage or investigations, there must not be an issue. It's all us left wing conspiracy nuts. When they control the volume of the voices we hear, they control the spin.

If we sat down and decided on some guiding principles, and rehashed our society based on those principles, what might happen? I say our problems just might solve themselves. I'm not talking about using religious principles. I'm talking basic rights stuff. Common goal stuff. Everyone, or at least all citizens (if you want to be a conservative dick about it) deserves health care right? DONE. Move on. For America to retain a competive edge, we're going to need really great educations for ALL children, right? DONE. If we're going to gain some international confidence in our economy, we're going to have to stop spending money like it's going out of style, right? DONE. Here's a good one....If this important historical city is going to survive, it will need new levies, right? DONE... Well, we know how that one ended. My point is, if we changed the reason and way we make decisions, our problems would seemingly disappear. The tragedies connected to Hurricane Katrina COULD have been prevented in many cases. Yes, yes, new problems will crop up, BUT, if you always have a moral compass to refer to, you can't go wrong. We need a compass that points to "the American way". Our soldiers are willing to die for what they believe in. It's about time that we are willing to at least LIVE for something that we believe in. I hate these fat cat assholes just as much as the next guy, but it's about time that we hold ourselves accountable as well. Tell your kids about America the great. America the beautiful. Instill it in them. It should be bigger than wii. Bigger than High School Musical. Teach your kids, and yourself, to believe in something, and to strive to be better humans and better Americans every day.

Conversation is great, among active minded, open minded people like ourselves, but how many people would consider you and I to be on the fringe? How many people would brush us off as conspiracy theorists? If you've talked to anyone in the "real" world, you know it's just about everyone. That's NOT to say conversation is futile, or useless; I'm just saying it's not going to do any good getting a bunch of like-minded people together to, (for lack of a better word) whine about our current situation as a society. That's what this is...It's not a bush problem, though he is an evil swine. It's not a Cheney problem, though he is an evil shotgun bearing vice-dickhead....It's an American problem. Maybe a capitalist problem. It's inherent in our chosen system. Consider the fact that not only is our political system a wreck, but so is our economy. Not only is our medical system a wreck, but so is our health as a nation. We, as a nation, are failing. It all ties together. It's not JUST BUSH, though I hate to take any blame FROM him... It's the fact that American attention is misplaced. We are idolizing the golden calf, and it's in the form of hi-def TVs and Swiss-knife cell phones. We're talking about the GOD of Americans...the dollar. That's where it all stops and starts. Money has quite literally proven itself as the root of all American evil. Try to find ONE problem, that we have as a nation, that ISN'T caused by some-one's greed. Our wealth, my friends, IS our problem. We don't CARE about anything...and that's SUCH an understatement. We have sold out any and every value that we ever had; lost all principles that our grandparents would teach. We would rather turn a profit than retain any moral compass. It's everything. It's the haves and the have nots, and if you have not, there's probably a good reason... If you can't afford ____________, that's your problem... even when it's life or death? No one will turn it off. There's too much at stake here. Why would Pelosi take impeachment, her constitutional duty, "off the table". Too much to lose... Why would the press censor itself, on the large and small scale? Too much to lose... Why do average American citizens turn the other way, when they are presented with MORE than enough evidence? TOO MUCH TO LOSE.... We can't be pulled away from all this SHIT. CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME. We're digging our own hole, and we DESERVE IT. They couldn't get away with all this shit if people actually got involved, and EXPECTED MORE of this nation and it's representatives.

Al Gore speaking about the Constitution today gives me hope. We need strong voices speaking up for the Constitution and the 'American Way'. We need Americans willing to speak 'Truth to Power, Al Gore is one of the few that still have the courage to speak up. We have many writers who have written books with little coverage, there voices don't get heard by the masses. We need voices loud enough to wake Americans from their slumber. We need leaders willing to counter spin with facts and demand others do the same. Stopping the spin is the most important issue in America. Our current mainstream media have become spin machines, spinning to the script of the neocon warmongers and this administration.

People are afraid to speak because we all know that this administration renders and tortures people. They want us to know this to keep us afraid to speak out. I have many instructors and professors telling me that they have never heard campuses so quiet before. We cannot become so frightened that we fail to speak out or they win, no contest. They are practicing the crude bully tactic of intimidation. Conniepae, we all have to be brave now. I followed your link to the article you said scared the shit out of you, and it scared the shit out of me too. They want it to scare the shit out of us. I have another book to recommend to you. You may have already discovered him, but Greg Palast is a great writer, and the book I read that explained alot of things to me was "Armed Madhouse". Check it out. It explains how they play the shell game at election time with all the ballots quite well. Noam Chomsky wrote "Manufacturing Consent" (it is also a documentary film). Both explain alot. Keep the conversation moving, its going in the right direction, it helps push democracy back into place. Jupiter1

Jupiter1, you are correct, conversation is the way to change opinions. The facts are out there, even if mainstream media doesn't cover them. Facts may be ignored, but they don't go away, they are just waiting to be heard.
Only problem is these guys scare the shit out of me. Last night I posted an article about the CIA. Within moments I took it off.
There's an article at opednews.com today that I would post, but I'm kinda at a low. All this political spin by CNN, MSNBC, etc. knowing it's just fluff news making American's feel the end is nearer than it is. Most of the candidates are already in positions that could be changing things if they had the fortitude. Unfortunately, they don't! I hope when the bulk of the candidates that leave the race for '08 go back to their day jobs, they stop campaigning and get something done. Accountability should be first and foremost on their lists of accomplisments. Biden, Richardson, Kuchinich, Dodd should all go after mainstream media and demand accountability. When they hear spin, challenge it right then, WITH HONESTY AND FACT! Those guys are some of the best voices America has right now and they have been caught in the spin of the campaign.
Back to the topic I came here to write about. Take a look at this article: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6154457.html?tag=nl.e550 I see why so many Americans are afraid to speak ill of this administration, or even acknowledge facts about things done in plain sight.
I told my son's you can respect me, or you can fear me. Fortunately, they chose respect. Unfortunately, the current administration and the neocons are quite comfortable using fear. I don't see anyone standing up for me right now! Not the candidates, no one with a voice that can be heard over spin. It's kinda sad when you think about it. We know this stuff. Many Americans know this stuff and still no accountability or efforts to reign in power being used with wreckless abandon!

Jupter1, this is so true, I hope the fire becomes a fire storm. Keep on Burning!

Blackwater is Cheneys private army. They will be doing the policing once and if they are able to achieve a complete takeover of both political parties.

Yes, Naomi Wolf has got some good videos out there, everyone should watch, but even more important is to continue the dialogue between us, and everyone else we can talk to about this situation here, and its fascist shift. The conversation must continue because like a fire it will create its own energy. The one thing we can do is discuss this with everyone we can, especially because of the lack of a forum due to media consolidation. Another one to read and listen to is Noam Chomsky. Just google him. He has alot of video out there also. Jupiter1

Naomi Wolf also has several good videos on youtube.com. Well worth watching. She is trying to use her voice, I hope people start listening before it is too late.

Every fascist shift requires a praetorian guard. Blackwater, Brownshirts, they are all the same. They will be turned loose on us next. They were offered a 5oo million dollar contract to work here. I may have that number wrong, but Naomi Wolf has written a book that all Americans should read before it is too late. "The End Of America: letter to a young patriot". Jupiter1

America is being set up to be a policed state. Black Water is bidding on contracts to work inside the United States. Black Water would not be bidding if a contract were not offered. Why do we need Black Water in America? When Iraq throws them out, they will have a ready-made market in America? Laws are being generated that will make crimes where no crime existed before.

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071227/COMMENTARY02/620257774/1012/COMMENTARY is a post by Bruce Fein: Congress is perched to enact the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (Act)," probably the greatest assault on free speech and association in the United States since the 1938 creation of the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC). Sponsored by Rep. Jane Harman, California Democrat, the bill passed the House of Representatives on Oct. 23 by a 404-6 vote under a rule suspension that curtailed debate.

Local police can't add 'thought crimes' to their jobs. Low and behold, we have Black Water here, good to go. Black Water has already been used on American soil. They were used in New Orleans after Katrina.

Due to the fact that the powers that be have studied all of the mistakes former regimes made regarding cover ups, this gang has been much more clever. First of all they changed the law to allow a buyup of all the information systems or purveyors and such by as few as 6 corporations. Then they stopped keeping tapes or written memos. The tapes are gone, these guys are good. They will be difficult to trip up, but hopefully not impossible. They operate by scaring people into silence. They make little lists of people to watch, they let you know that we torture people, they have narrowed the information that the public needs to come out of the sleepwalk that is going on now. Anna Nicoles death was sad, as anyones is, but it was used as a distraction from the important issues. What is going on in this country? We are feeling a fascist shift going on. They only torture "them", not "us". Pretty soon it will be our turn. We cannot stand by and allow torture to continue without trying to stop it. It does not yield accurate information, it just scares everybody into silence. Jupiter1

Witth wealth comes great power: The people of the United States have been for sale tto the highest bidder since the Reagun era. Not to suprising that we have such a bad economy just befor the next election, makes for more people who think that they should get a peice of the pie befor it dries up completly.

I live in Cleveland in Cuyahoga County. In Ohio they were under court order to retain the 2004 ballots and related voting material. The ballots were 'accidently?' destroyed. Blackwell was head of Bush's campaign in Ohio and head of the elections. Four election workers were found guilty of crimes related to the '04 election. Britney Spears received far more coverage. Paris Hilton received more coverage. I'm not hearing this story on the nightly news, or the news channels.

It's probably because they are tapes

media = tapes

It's something they could have maybe aired?

One of the great lessons of history is, it's not so much the crime, it's the cover up. The cover up may be what gets them in trouble. Richard Nixon found out the problems associated with the cover up. As far as mainstream media, they are not going to report their participation in the manipulation of public opinion. Their lack of coverage signals participation in manipulating public opinion. Mainstream media has led Americans to believe we are now governed by group rule instead of the 'Rule of Law'. It's time Americans showed them the 'Rule of Law' is still alive and well. Mainstream media has been able to spin fact and fiction as equal. Their spinning has not changed things, facts are facts and spin is a distortion of facts. When Americans start holding the sponsors of mainstream media accountable for their negligence we may see Truth in Journalism return to the airwaves. Wouldn't that be a great day in American history? The day we take back our airwaves!

It seems strange to me that after all of the things this administration have got up to, the destruction of some video tapes has got everyone hot and bothered.

I know it is significant, but...where have the press been all this time?