Are We Screwed?

great pod

Are we screwed? In all honesty,

The common man is screwed, but for those that are truly presuming personal wealth now is a very unprecedented time in history to reach and achieve personal wealth.

With so many new markets open and easily accessible world wide, and with the internet making social networking so much easier, a person that is diligent and actively working to achieve wealth can do so much sooner than before.

I myself just by using Craig's list I was able to meet and be mentored by a man who's network was $60 + Million. if this was the 1980s I would almost have no chance of that given my economic and educational back ground and that of my parents.

Also with the US economy in such a down cycle right now and money being so cheap, the opportunities are many. Remember money can be made in during the down cycle as well.

Loved the sign over the coffee shop at the end. "FREE coffee, tea, hot cocoa, speech"
But to another and more serious end, does all of this globalization and outsourcing business sound like we're headed toward the abuse of the common worker that occurred during the Industrial Revolution? The scenario: American works for $50,000 a year, Indian works for $15,000 dollars a year. In order for American to compete he lowers his wage to $5,000 a year, then the Indian lowers his wage and so on. Meanwhile the wealthy business owners take advantage of their workers and we all just end up living in poverty. Or am I just being a little gloomy? Maybe global unions aren't a bad idea to start considering though.

I think we are screwed unless we start standing up for the constitution and fighting back...

This has been going on for a long time...

the gap between the CEO and the entry level worker's salary has become enormous int he past 30 years, Washington overwhelmingly sides with corporations....

this is not democracy, this is much closer to totalitarianism than democracy, we need real democracy, and we need to fight for it before we lose our civil liberties

RON PAUL 2008

Part 2..........................................................................
Mike Rohal is the father of three boys who finds himself unemployed for the first time. ...........

After 20 years working on information technology for AT&T, Rohal says his job, along with more than 100 others in his division, was outsourced to a contractor… Computer Sciences Corporation or CSC. .......

Rohal was transferred to the new company. And for 2 years, things went fine. ............

Then, Rohal says, one day CSC announced that the work being done in his department was being sent off shore to India. And what's more, the company told Rohal he would have to train new Indian workers how to do his job. Knowledge transfer is corporate speak for "you're gonna train your replacement." ................

ROHAL, "I had to train them in the responsibilities and the duties of performing my particular job. People who were, ultimately from what we heard, were paid 1/5 of what we were paid. " .......................................

Almost a year later, CSC laid Mike Rohal off. .......................

ROHAL, " My feeling about that company is they are nothing more than an axman. An axman. They're brought in to get rid of people, to do the dirty work that corporate doesn't want to do. " ..............................

Mike Rohal is not alone. Recent studies predict more than half a million technology jobs will move overseas by the end of next year. Financial services companies will be next, also expected to send more than half a million jobs abroad in the next 5 years. .......................................

In fact, over the next 15 years, 3.3 million white-collar jobs are predicted to go overseas…jobs now held by middle class workers who've traditionally been the backbone of the American economy. .........................................................................................................

Better save all you can now....Don't get any of those credit cards....No variable rate loans..............................................................

it's not just the individual worker who's hurt when service jobs disappear.....want to know why your property taxes are growing????? Because this is money that's being exported and we receive no tax dollars in return for that. Not one penny is collected by the state government or the county or local government or even the federal government. So at a time when we're experiencing deficits on every level of government it just makes no sense that we continue down this path. .............................................................

Have no fear....the federal govt is saving you money ... Government jobs now are going overseas, they're following the bad example of the corporate world, where they're outsourcing jobs to foreign countries at a time when we have a skyrocketing unemployment rate right here in this country. ...............................................................

Last year, I read in the NEWARK STAR LEDGER that jobs once held by New Jersey state employees had been offshored. Those jobs had first gone to a company called eFunds, operating out of Wisconsin. Then eFunds sent those jobs overseas. It was a cost-saving measure. Where in Green Bay, Wisconsin they were paying anywhere from $10 to $12 an hour. And when they moved the operation to Bombay, India they were paying roughly $3 an hour. ........................................................................

Now that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about this administration....

Part 1
"Offshoring" is the jargon. Sound familiar? That's what's been happening to manufacturing jobs for years.

What is different is these are white-collar jobs, customer service, technology, and financial services. It could all add up to the transformation of the American workforce.

It's not just customer service jobs. More and more of America's corporate giants are also farming out technology jobs overseas. Last year, Bill Gates announced Microsoft would be investing $400 million in Indian operations.

For U.S. corporations, the economic benefits of sending jobs to India are almost irresistible. Consider the results of one recent survey: a software programmer in the U.S. makes $66,000 a year. A programmer in India: only $10,000 a year. ....................................................................

A mechanical engineer: just over $55,000 dollars here. In India: $5,900. .................................................................

An accountant here: $41,000 dollars. In India: a mere 5,000. ............................................................

These numbers point to a transformation of the American workplace with white-collar jobs being shipped offshore to far away places as companies seek out the lowest wages. ........................................

And there's this from Microsoft: an internal presentation, also obtained by the CWA, in which a senior vice president urges managers to, quote, "pick something to move offshore today." He explains that in India, you can get, quote, "quality work at 50 to 60% of the cost. That's two heads for the price of one." ..................................................

So this is almost like bragging rights on Wall Street with the analysts, that they're cutting costs. ......................

There's no question offshoring saves U.S. corporations billions of dollars. But if it's so good for both American business and investors, then why are some companies going to such lengths to hide it from consumers? ...............................................................................................................................Because it does nothing to support the USA...No infrastructure rebuilding...no teachers salaries...no assistance with our police or firemen...This is a lousy tradeoff for corporate profits...and for the deep tax cuts Bush put into law in 2001 with the help og Indiana Gov Mitch Daniels....He's the one who said the Iraqi war would cost between 40 and 60 million....great with the math eh?

plusaf,

The idea that government shouldn't help people with things like health care, mortgage crisis relief and job creation is absurd! Why else do we pay taxes if it can't be used to help people? Can you pave the roads by yourself? How about building a bridge? How about researching a cure for cancer? How about investing in the new, up and coming technologies? The internet phenomenom started out as a government/military investment. Whether you like it or not, government is necessary for some things.

Basically, what you're advocating is social Darwinism - every man for himself and only the strongest survive. No one chips in to the common goods and services and everyone should be left to fend for themselves or rot. Bush already tried that. See New Orleans. It was basically yours and his wet dreams come true. The rich fended for themselves and got out with their SUV's, while the poor languished on rooftops and died. But hey, nobody had to pay extra taxes! I've got just one thing to say to that: you're the pig! Not me.

Why should anyone agree with this vision except for the rich, like yourself? Is it moral to push this agenda on the struggling and the hungry?

Back to your earlier arguments. It's funny that you accuse Democrats of fascism when the facts around the world indicates otherwise. 9 out of 10 countries in which the rich people own everything and the poor people have nothing (a high Gini coefficient) are dictatorships! Somalia, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Argentina, Venezuela, Indonesia, etc... It seems that there are certain environments fascism thrives better in -- and its the unfettered, unregulated capitalism which you and your Rethuglicans favor.

I believe you said it best yourself: you started out in upper middle class and you ended up in upper middle class. The rich tend to stay rich and the poor tend to stay poor in this country. No matter how much fairy tales we tell ourselves.

I think it is fundamentally wrong that Republican policies are geared towards depriving anyone of the resources they need to move up the economic ladder. And you rich people aren't even paying your fair share of taxes! I pay way more taxes than you as a percentage! But I only earned 40% of what you earned last year. Is that fair? I think it's fundamentally wrong that people who went to college and worked hard can't succeed in life. It's anti-American.

To make matters worse, the taxes we paid are being wasted daily, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars PER DAY by Halliburton, Blackwater and other no-bid contractors that Bush seems to have sweetheart deals with. While none are being spent on our schools, our health care, or even or roads and bridges. Meanwhile Their spending adds up to trillions of dollars of defecits per year. Defecits that my generation has to pay off, my future children's generation, and their grandchildren. But what do you care. It's every man or woman for themselves, right?

Why are you even on this thread anyway? It is clear that you care neither for the young nor the poor. But don't expect us to buy your bullshit or vote for your agendas. Young people may not be rich but we're not dumb.

Good report Adam. Makes you want to add a response.
I think it has to do with the strong influence of the right wing. And if the people voted with their pocketbook instead of their heart, we'd have a society that talked more and fought less.
As John Grisham put it when he was interviewed by Bill Moyers last Friday...
BILL MOYERS: What is your understanding of why these good Christian folks, these so many Baptists voted for the party that is in fact the party of money.

JOHN GRISHAM: They live poor and vote rich. They live poor and vote rich. I mean, it's a-- effort to-- the brilliant things the Republicans did was get all these guys under one tent. From your traditional Republican base-- wealthy republicans, your country club Republicans-- your corporate Republicans, and bring in the NASCAR bubbas and all those folks. And then bring-- and then get religious right. All these good Christian folks. Get them all under one tent. All voting-- really for-- one purpose, and that's to protect, you know, the rich folks. That's worked beautifully for the Republican party.

Pretty sad. JOHN GRISHAM: Keeping a guy in prison costs 50,000 bucks a year. Executing one costs a couple million..
So when are we going to stop putting non-violent people in prison and start helping them do a better job of being a contributing citizen?
We've gone from a agricultural nation to a industrial nation and now to a service nation...but we can't sustain our infrastructure with the wages earned as a service nation.
The tax structure must change. The wealthy must pay a fair share, not just pretend to.
When Thomas Cahill was asked about these analogies between the fall of the Roman Empire and the fall of America? Do you think there's anything to that from your wide sweep of studying history?

THOMAS CAHILL: I would say in some ways yes and in some ways no. You know, there's-- history never repeats itself. That's one thing you can say about it. It never happens again exactly the same way. So, there are tremendous differences. But we can look into the past and learn things. I think, for instance, why did Rome fall? Because of things interior and exterior. The interior part was less and less just taxation. More and more it was the poor and the middle class that bore the burden of taxation. And the wealthy and very wealthy pretended to pay but didn't actually.

And I think we are in a very similar situation with regard to that. Then the other thing was-- the external thing was that you had all of these Germanic barbarians who we think of as marauders and all that. They just wanted in. They were on the wrong side of the river. And they knew it. They wanted to have farms and vineyards like the Romans had. They thought it looked great. They wanted to cross the river. You know, what they were? They were immigrants. That's who they were not at all unlike the situation today at the borders of our country and the borders of Europe.

LostAtSea: One way that students are dealing with the education/loan crisis is they are choosing to study abroad for all four years and some even graduate years too. It's cheaper, and they have reported they got a better education for the money. American college students have also found their textbooks available overseas for 50% of what they cost here.

Okay guys, wait a second. I agree things are looking a little bleak right now, but let's not shit ourselves okay? Every generation is saddled with a few challenges. Perhaps overcoming debt, overhauling our economy, and instating something like a universal right to education and health care in the States is ours?

Instead of pointing the finger or blaming everyone from the church to high school teachers to Republicans to Democrats why can't someone actually come up with an idea to start DEALING with these issues- instead of moaning about it.

I believe globalization is inevitable and those manufacturing jobs would have gone out of the country eventually regardless of whose in office. Perhaps we should try to gear our country torwards developing green, nano, interactive technology? Rebuild our crumbling infastructure and construct now sources of clean energry. Something like a Green New Deal for our generation. We can't think about fixing education and healthcare until our economy is flipped right side up again.

plusaf: EXACTLY. This is the cost of moving from an Industrial economy to a consumer spending economy and one where jobs are mainly reliant on high tech (and like you said, our schools have stayed trapped in the Agricultural Age in terms of their schedules adn the Industrial Age in terms of curriculum). I tell ya, young people are going to get hurt bad when they are saddled with HUGE college debts and no education or training for the available jobs. They will have to move overseas to get employed (unless they want to pick vegetables, clean toilets, or flip hamburgers).

Agreed. Keen observation, barkway.

The rightwing churches are a sham. I feel that way about most religions, but certainly about "Christianity" today. They're nothing but microphone pieces for Bush and his Rethuglicans. It has nothing to do with the true teachings of their idol, Jesus. If it did, their believers will be giving money away to the poor in droves and championing peace instead of war. These sham churches are nothing but money milking machines on the unsuspecting believer. They use fear, guilt and cultish social disapproval to control people. It's not hard to see why they target youth and children. Hitler once said, "you give me a child for the first 7 years of his life and I give you the man."

It's a sick religion. It has been and always will be. I suspect that's why 1 in 5 youths are atheists today. We are starting to see through the bullshit in larger and larger numbers. (Maybe there is a God!) And many more are turned off by the traditional rightwing churches of Pat Robertson and instead are opting for other spiritual options.

phoenixfire_999: Look up "Generation Joshua." They campaigned for Bush in large numbers all over the country and most of them aren't even old enough to vote. Bush's success in 2000 and 2004 is not an age issue....it's a Party and Christian issue.

"We" meaning young people. The 30 and under crowd. Yoohoo! 30 right here.

And yes we are royally screwed! Supremely and utterly screwed! I hope all those Bush voters are proud of themselves now. They have just screwed themselves and their children out of prosperity, economic fairness and even a properly functioning Democracy. Right now, we have a gutted Constitution, a soaring defecit in the trillions - which will take our children and grandchildren to pay off, millions college graduates unable to find good paying jobs and instead have to settle for Starbucks and bagging groceries. Those college-degree jobs have went overseas to India. But that's not enough for Bush's corporate cronies. They have to cheat us out of our house and home too with their subprime ponzi schemes and ARM loans. And many of us know friends or even family, who are still getting maimed and killed in Iraq. and if they're lucky enough to survive a roadside bombing, the rat infested Walter Reed hospitals (Halliburton) will take care of them. NOT! And if you complain about any of this, you're probably on some FBI watch list somewhere, because Bush has wiretapped your phone conversations.

Things haven't been this bad for America's youth since the Great Depression! Thanx a lot, Bush voters! I hope you got the gay bashing you voted for. Because the rest of us, including your kids, got *&^% up the ass instead. But I'm sure that was all worth it to you.

You Rethuglican voters ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

I'm in my late 40's and my parents were better off economically than my spouse and I are. I get the feeling that our kids will do even less well going forward.

Who do you mean by "we?"

yea we are screwed. our runaway spending is going to kill us. as a society we've all been living way beyond our means for years and years and we're about to pay a big price for it. we've never been in greater debt than ever before and i'm not even talking about the govt'. personal debt has never been higher and it's going to require a real change in attitude about personal saving and spending to help dig each of us out.

No, Mitt is NOT right, and let me tell you why. First of all, everyone who wants to go to college and has the grades that qualify, SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE. Regardless of their parent's income! Why should the economic class someone is born into, determine whether or not they get to go to college or not? This isn't Russia. This isn't Pakistan. This is America! Supply and demand doesn't have anything to do with a child's education. A young person's future isn't a commodity to be bought or sold.

And secondly, the reason why the United States treasury doesn't have any money to do anything for the American people right now, including giving student loans and grants to young people, is because BUSH SPENT IT ALL ON TAX CUTS FOR RICH PEOPLE!

Rich people like Romney. And war profiteers like Halliburton. Did you know that oil companies paid zero income taxes last year? They raked in record profits, mind you. How is this legal? It's not. But they have their powerful lawyers, and Bush is more than happy to let them get away with it.

So if they skirted out of paying their fair share of taxes, guess who has to make up the difference? You and I and everybody reading this thread. Just check your tax returns for the last seven years. You will see that your taxes have steadily gone up, not down, since Bush took office. To make up for his oil cronies robbing our treasury.

And lastly, don't you DARE tell young people not to vote again! Don't you dare spread that lie that their votes won't make a difference. They have already done so in primaries and will continue to do some come November 2008!

It is people like you that discourage them, in order to suppress their vote. While you sent them and their friends off to war to die for Bush's lies. You tell them to give up hope so that old farts like you can vote in the Republican party that has nothing to offer our youth, the average middle class citizen, and anybody who's not making $250,000 per year and above. I understand why rich people vote for the Republicans. But I'll never understand why regular Americans do. It's like the chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.

Well, guess what. This thread is about young people's lives and how they've been adversely affected by Bush's economy for the last 7 years. They have every right to make this an election year issue because they understand very well what is at stake here - their futures, their careers and their vitality.

And don't you dare try to take away their voice!

This is a sad way of explaining reality here to the younger viewers, but no one says it better than George Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg

-zen

Yeah, we're screwed- BUT disgruntled people and ridiculous and abusive government throw together are the recipe for revolution. At least the wool that's been covering most of the nation's eyes is getting shorn.

Yep. We're screwed. We have the double whammy of stagnant wages and rising fixed cost: in housing, health care, child care, gas. Most of the jobs created during the Bush years are minimum wage service jobs with no benefits. Most of the good paying jobs have gone over to India, Pakistan, China. And this time around, a college degree hasn't made much of a difference. While Bush and his Republicans keep insisting that giving tax cuts to the rich is the answer.

In November, voters have a choice. Vote for the Democratic nominee. Even if it is Hillary Clinton. I did not and still don't like her war votes. But at least when it comes to the economy, they know how to generate wealth for the middle class.

Angelique - you're right about our society teaching people to be immoral, to "take what you can get." It is a disease.

It is the leadership that sets the example and tone of what's acceptable in a given society. In this case, with complicity of the judicial and legislative branches, this executive brand administration is for the dogs.

Some people create while others destroy. Some people give while others take. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out which to greater and greater extent rules our country.

Ipo - you're right about that. What's funny is that our elected officials when talking about the high costs of education and the debt accumulated by students after four years of college refer to numbers like $20,000.00 and $30,000.00, when in reality the truth is $50,000.00 to over a $100,000.00. It's seems difficult for any of them to get it right - or admit the truth.

Education is a huge problem -- kids are paying for college with Visa and Mastercard. We need government intervention with high education. Textbooks! My goodness. 2+2=4 since the dawn of time so why are colleges requiring the purchase of new textbooks every year? How exactly is it determined that a text book is "worth" $300 for freshman college classes? Who came up witht hat price and why? Someone needs to stand up to colleges and say, "Hey! You're ripping people off!" The government needs to intervene. A better educated citizenery is a boon for the entire nation. Educating the next person who will cure cancer is a good thing -- denying them the tools needed to make the cure happen because they've maxed out their credit cards is just short sighted.

could the ever increasing size and the resultant cost of the various bureaucracies have anything to do with our dwindling resources? each of the 60% of our current wage earners lose over half of their income to TAXES
the wealth of our nation is being squandered with frivolous government largess and waste, and the race is still on to see how much each of these thieves can garner for their personal benefit,be it either publicity or personal gain.

Why haven't we heard anything about education... Thats what I'm interested in. I'm paying my way through college and it's not cheap. My old college had an average class of 35 - 40 students due to the fact that a bill was passed taking alot of money away from education closing down many classes at a near- bye university leaving our parking lots full and classes even more packed. going into my BFA at MECA I'm already $5,000 in debt. School is $32,000 a year and fafsa only helps so much. What's going on with the education?!

One thing that strikes me about this generation is that it seems to accept everything at face value and lacks the foresight to question any of it - unemployment statistics for example.

Do you realize that the government does not count the unemployed in the same manner it did say 10, 20 or 30 years ago? What effect might that have on your perception of reality and why would the government do that?

You think your parents had it good? That's a serious joke! I'll illustrate an example of how people's perception is wrong: in the early 1960's, my father owned three houses; two on the Monterey Peninsula and one still under construction in a new housing tract in Silicon Valley - as a skilled blue collar worker. He didn't have credit cards, he didn't have 2nd and 3rd mortgages, he owned a new car, had money in the bank and his wife didn't, nor did she "need" to work. He was able to make his monthly "nut" with his income with some to spare.

Wealth since the Regan era has been "virtual" or plastic - for the most part, built substantially on inflation not production with the proliferation of credit cards and other forms of credit.

When I entered the work force, in the 1980's, it was a completely different United States economically than my father experienced. As the '80's marched on and $50,000.00 a year salaries became more common, and boy did that sound like a lot of money then, it still didn't buy what my father's (un-inflated) income purchased a number of years earlier.

Jobs go to India and manufacturing to China because our government no longer protects Americans and the American economy in the manner it had for the previous 200 years.

We are flooded with China made junk because our government no longer protects American businessmen in the manner it had for the previous 200 years.

Sorry, didn't watch the whole pod and I didn't care for it.

AND in RESPONSE 2 the question at hand "Are we screwed? Will we be the first generation economically worse off than our parents? " YES!!! We have surrounded our life w/ costs...everything we NEED(food, water, shelter, passion) & want(things 2 achieve passion or things 2 experience/understand) with a price...what about those who have no money 2 begin w/?....Then there is no choice but 2 do a job that has no real meaning 2 us...no passion...just 2 get a little money 2 pay 4 the things we need & hope we have some left 2 achieve our passion(schooling needed)...usually all the money earned in these non-passionate jobs go twards bills...& prevent us from getting the schooling/proof of knowledge 2 do our passion w/out limitation....NOT GOOD!!! If we stay like this crime rate WILL go up...'cause if people can't afford what they need....they find another way 2 get it(stealing, lieing, etc.) Doing things they know are wrong 2 get the right....doing bad 2 get good....THIS IS WHAT THE COUNRTY IS TEACHING OUR KIDS....'cause there are many w/out money....I am one of those people who have no money...and I do not want 2 do bad/wrong things...so I'm stuck....I can only sing & dance & hope someday some1 will c the passion in my writting of art & let me do it w/out haveing 2 deal w/ money(the idol, the system of control, the thing worked 4 that isn't liveing)....I do apoligize if this is hard 2 read....I tend 2 get caught up and ramble...'cause I am so passionate about true meaning of FREEDOM...and this country has forgotten the true meaning of what it stands by...since nothing is free except for our thoughts & death(but even a funeral has a price) SO I guess our thoughts would be the only thing left that they can't put a price on. *Pure TRUTH*True PEACE*Total LOVE/UNDERSTANDING*

Yeah, we're a little screwed. Wages are dropping and prices are rising. The flood of easy credit has screwed up natural free-market forces. What was normally (naturally) supposed to happen when wages fall and jobs dry up is that consumer spending drops too and prices drop. Well, thanks to new rules governing credit cards (and, of course, the subprime mortgage industry) introduced a while back -- that didn't happen. Wages were falling, but people were able to use credit to keep spending -- which kept prices high while real wages were simultaneously dropping. Unfortunately a "correction" is in our near future. Basically, the bottom has to fall out in order to get prices to re-set lower to become more inline with actual wages (not wages plus credit cards). It's going to suck but it's probably for the best. Prices can't keep rising forever. Look at how out of control they are now. A brand new house in 1976 cost $60,000. That exact same house today (with a leaky roof and no improvements) sells for $450,000! College text books: 20 years ago a new college text book was $20 and now a single book is $95.00! Prices have to comeback down to reality.

People are forced 2 do jobs they are not PASSIONATE about...jobs they don't live 4...jobs they don't enjoy. This is why people are unhappy.... ***SCHOOL SHOULD BE FREE!!!*** All opertunities should be FREE!!!! ....... Press is separated 'cause the press spreads Truth(the disease 2 liers). ..... I hope we get a current cafe in Marietta, OH soon! So I have the ability 2 put up my voice instead of only my words.

PEROT would say the great sucking sound of our factories continue flowing south of border and beyond ...

What do you mean, "the first" generation? More like the second or third consecutive generation to get screwed.

As a child of the Carter administration, let me say - many of us saw the writing on the walls you're talking about 25-30 years ago.

-=zen=-