A sad truth visible in March 4th voting

anjela3

you're not making any sense at all

oh crob80227 is that it? Well, that does nothing more than confirm my comment. Cinton wins, Obama supporters get pissed off, call names, make threats...blah, blah, blah. Where's that change? Yep, didn't think so. These posts and posts throughout the blogosphere confirm the same thing. This freedom of speech thing is great. You get the opportunity to see exactly who/what people really are.

"The truth hurts.... Osama is lame and not going to win.... I mean wake up do you really want OSAMA - muslim, barely american, to be our President...NO! Wake up people!! Go Hillary - love you girl."

wow @ amandaforHillary

I'm speechless, I can't believe people can actually be this dumb, no wonder why Hillary does well among the less educated.

The man in the White House right now played that card (fear, attack, negativity) twice and won both. That says enough.

Change doesn't come easily.

We fix it by not buying it. Trouble is, too many are, rather than seeing through it. Pretty sad. :/

ok, you guys deleted it 4 me lol thanks

In politics, former enemies can become allies, seemingly overnight. Whether Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama or John McCain (and, seriously now, who else stands a real chance?) takes the throne, some of those who opposed will turn friendly for the sake of getting legislation they signed off on passed or some other deal in progress that's been held up in this transition. It's like insider trading. We all know it's going on and it can change relationships in a heartbeat.

Do we even know if she really won...? Has anyone looked in the trashcans behind the voting buildings?

I admired Richardson as well for that reason. I do think Hillary's experience as first lady counts. She was a projection of Soft Power across the world. She spent more time overseas trying to engender goodwill than almost any president and more than any first lady. She travelled to far flung locales such as Mongolia that hadn't had such a high U.S. envoy visit since Eleanor Roosevelt. People overseas and especially women view her incredibly favorably. She was also a champion for healthcare.

Now lets hold her to the same token as McCain's vaunted experience. How has her experience shaped her judgement? That is the real test because McCain isn't going to respect her experience as first lady he is going to villanize it and he has served two decades in the Senate and if she projects greater experience as her asset in a general election than why isn't someone like Richardson, Biden, Dodd, or even Gravel the frontrunner who all have decades more experience than either Hillary or Obamma. In terms of senate tenure Hillary has one term amounting to four years more experience than Obama. He has actual experience as an elected oficial while she was an unelected first lady albeit in a state legislature is that less aplicable because it wasn't a national office or is it more aplicable because it was an actual elected office or again in comparison to McCain does it matter at all?

Anjela3 -- Puh-leze.

Hilary Clinton is a célebutante -- no different than Paris Hilton. Paris got were she is because she was born into a famous family -- Hillary is where she is NOT because of her "experience" (a term she uses very, very loosely) but because she happened to marry someone actually successful, Bill Clinton.

Bill Richardson had already served almost 20 years in public life and was negotiating for the release of hostages taken prisoner by Saddam before Hillary even served ONE DAY in the Senate.

Yet she is delusional enough to say in front of Richardson (and Biden and Dodd) that she is much more experienced than any of them??? Huh?

Hillary Clinton got the money and the support for her candidacy the same way K-Fed gets record deals --- she got it because she's married to someone famous and that's Bill Clinton.

That's what's really pissing off a lot of people all across the political spectrum -- Hillary served for 5mins in the Senate and suddenly gets showered with millions of dollars, set up with expert speech writers, etc -- why???

Why did Paris, er, I mean Hillary get treated like a hardcore political rock star when Richardson who has 2 decades more experience and about 100 times more actual experience got treated like garbage? He couldn't even get a question in the debates!

Now that in and of itself wouldn't be so bad -- except Hillary LIKE GEORGE W BUSH walks around in her flight suit acting as if she earned it! Earned it? How?

Again, while Hillary was hosting tea parties as First Lady Richardson was negotiating with world leaders, serving in the Senate, was Secretary of Energy, taught at Harvard and was Gov. of New Mexico.

And yet Paris, er, I mean Hillary looks Richardson (and Dodd and Biden) right in the eye and says, "I am waaaay smarter than you and much more qualified."

If she would at least be humble and acknowledge that she is being handed this Golden Ticket because of Bill Clinton and acknowledge that basically she didn't really earn it -- then we would all be better able to deal with her.

Ego is fine -- but how exactly did she earn that sense of entitlement when the other candidates in the race each had decades more experience than she did?

phoenix mm's message is for hillary...

Fascinating...poor, poor Obama worshippers. Fascinating to see the faces of the worshippers appear as soon as everything isn't going their way. Someone dare to question out loud the true value of His greatness? What, will their be guns and revolution in the streets if they don't get their way? Sounds like it already. That truly is the greatness of yet another "uniter".

what's with this 'you' stuff? I'm not Hillary... *confused*

Wonderful job, you are a success. Thousands of Republicans voted for you, because they believe McCain can beat you. The Polls show that he can. The super delegates are not elected.

I wouldn't be so certain of that, LaWingman. I think Democrats will win the election no matter who they put at the top of the ticket, as long as they appear together. Here's why:

Obama does well with young people, African Americans, college educated, Independents, white men, wealthier voters and disgruntled Republicans

Clinton does well with old people, women, Latinos, working class and lower middle class voters, voters with only a high school diploma and strongly partisan Democrats.

When you combine their voting blocks together, that's everybody! They make up each other's weaknesses in their voting segments.

You see, it may not be wise for the Democratic party to discount Hillary since Obama needs her voting blocks to win the general election, and vice versa.

I think the American voters want both - change and experience, inspiration and grit, vision and the know-how to get things done. Either would be such a step up from Dumbya, and both together will be an unbeatable team.

Republicans may not be voting for Hillary because of what Rush Limbaugh said - but they ARE voting for Hillary. Why wouldn't they?

McCain's already locked up the nomination and Hillary won't be able to get as many Republicans and Independents to vote for her as Barack will in the Election if she is the nominee.

SHE NEEDS TO DROP OUT. The only way she is going to win the nominee is if McCain supporters get her through and if she IS the Democratic nominee THE REPUBLICANS WILL WIN THE ELECTION!

But she won't drop out. Because she isn't in this for the people - she wants to be the first woman president.

Thanks for your wise observations JanforGore. Electing a President is serious. Elections have real consequences. Since George W. Bush has become President, - thousands of U.S. soldiers, tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of Iraqi, Afghan and other citizens have died, more than 2 million have fallen into poverty, millions more have become working poor, millions have lost health care, a million are losing their homes, countless children have lost health care, jobs are lost overseas and more and more mercury, arsenic and toxins are poured into our air and water. Each voter has the right and obligation to learn everything about these candidates, and no one should be bullied or intimidated for expressing their political beliefs protected by our Constitution. This is not personal, it's much bigger than any one of us. It is usually more productive to discuss ideas and disagree with mutual respect without resorting to name-calling and attacks.
Peace, Pax, Shalom, Salaam, Skenon,

See its not a good democrat/ bad democrat playing out. Its Charisma and hope for change , versus experience and the know how to change. Most of America is looking at the personalities and not the issues. Why do you think we have super delegates, they are elected officials that we the people picked to vote in our best interest.

There's been a lot of mistrust in Hillary from the start
She still carries the ghost of the Vince Foster coverup and Whitewater from her days as first lady to the eyes of her harshest critics.
Not to mention, her path to candidacy looks more strategized and carpetbagged than it does genuine becoming a Senator in a state she had never resided in before...
Lazio tried hard attacks on Hillary in that Senate race in 2000 and it bit him in the butt when it looked like he was the mean New Yorker picking on the woman.
If Obama were to hypothetically go against his message and nail in everything lowball case against Hillary, he will be demonized by the media hungry for a story much like what happened to Lazio in 2000.
The polarizing difference between Obama and Hillary is the fact that Obama spent years devoting himself to helping the less fortunate in Illinois before jumping out to represent Illinois compared the Hillary's rise to Palpatinian power.
These issue are probably why we have this good Democrat/bad Democrat schism.

I am glad that Hillary finally stood up for herself and for america. She is a strong women with good values. The media has been beating her up. If the media wants to go negative on Hillary, they should do the same for Obama. Great job yesterday Hillary.

yes, you are missing something. A lot has occurred during the las week or so, ...too lazy to explain...

ssjasper2003

I AGREE! It comes across as hight school gossip and I do not think the intention is the politics but the broadcast rating. SAD TOO

96thdayofrage - why the personal attack on JanforGore? I thought she made a reasonable point without getting personal. I don't think it is 'whining'. Am I missing something?

SAD BUT TRUE, America is moved by fear just look around at your work place. Pay attention on how people interact with one another in terms of color or nationality! This works with white Americans who somehow subconsciously believe they are better than others and that others want to attack them or take over them! THIS IS THE TRUE in your society!

NAFTA was a mistake, no doubt about it. But Hillary Clinton wasn't president when it was signed after being initiated by the Bush administration, and I actually do not believe she would do any different regarding it now than Obama, especially considering how people claim their policies are so similar. If there is reason to believe otherwise then perhaps someone can post backup regarding it. And the working Americans in Ohio who were directly effected by NAFTA voted for her yesterday, so they must have had a reason for doing so.

"jspear, I don't think people are being critical of Hillary for pointing out policy differences."
Perhaps not, but people certainly get jumped on for daring to discuss policy differences regarding Obama. And this isn't the only site it happens on. If you dare to comment on Obama and his nuclear ties, or his donations from Exelon, or his own words regarding terrorism and war, you are branded a racist and other assorted names. I agree, policy differences are surely open for discussion, especially regarding one's policies who for the most part are unknown but that is a two way street, and I do see a blatant hatred for Hillary Clinton here and elsewhere on the part of some. And even though I do not agree with all of her policies or the DLC she is part of, I think it is somewhat suspicious to see the same hate spewed by the same people over and over again, day after day on many of these sites.

Keith was right. There has been more than enough of the Bush Clinton reign. Bill Clinton gave us NAFTA, and allowed the consolidation of the media, the reason we have no news. It's more than time for a change.

As Keith Olbermann accurately pointed out:

Hillary Clinton would have us believe that she is the only Democratic candidate with the experience to be commander-in-chief, yet the most important vote she ever cast--authorizing military action against Iraq--was WRONG.

I think the demographics of Texas made a win for Obama tough, and I'm certainly not ready to give Hilary credit were credit is not due for her smear tactics- she's run her campaign so badly and the fact that Republicans want her as the D. candidate and that some voted that way to try and have her as McCains opponent should speak volumes to the Democrats. I am a Barack Supporter, not a Hilary "hater" but I really don't think she could beat mcCain and as Paul242 said - even if she did somehow become president she is so despised by the Republicans simply because she is a Clinton.
I really don't think we need a continuation of the Bush/Clinton dynasty. I mean common even David Wilhelm knows it.

We don't get a lot of political ads here in Colorado (not yet anyway). I must have missed the one where Obama said we would all die if Hillary had her finger on the button.

Current is becoming absurd with all these obama/political articles.

Geez, Obama must be a fucking hypnotist, people. He fucking used the same tactics too! It's politics, if you think that there is someone in the race who hasn't used those tactics lately you must not be watching the same race I am. It always gets like this towards the nomination.

things can't be change, there isn't any hope, the country is going to blow up at 3am, but at least you will have health care, kinda.

lol

Well, I see your point paul262.

That is my complaint of Hillary -- that she is promising that somehow those exact same Republicans that hated her in 1992-2000 will somehow (magically?) put all that animosity behind them and they'll all be friends.

I agree Hillary is super tough and certainly given the climate of the times would probably be able to beat Old Man McCain (who is inexplicably running on a 3rd Bush term) in a general election -- but what happens when she gets into the White House?

People complain of Barack that, sure, he talks big but if he's elected he won't be able to pass any of his great ideas.

And Hillary (the Great Satan in Republican mythology) will? She'll somehow be able to get people who have basically built their entire political careers on destroying her to suddenly just agree to her ideas?

Probably the one thing we can agree on is that there are huge question marks on the ability of either Barack or Hillary to actually garner enough support from Republicans in order to get legislation passed. I would tend to side with Barack simply because I don't think the Republicans are ever going to get past their own anti-Clinton bias to support her.

Eh. Who knows?

I agree. it is time now for Obama to attack Hillary on her experience, among many other things. it is sad that this has to happen since Obama tried to run a clean campaign but it has to be done. taking the high road will not get you votes from the less educated.

it's amazing to me how the media quickly adapted to it, two weeks ago if I remember correctly the presumption was not only she has to win but win by a large margin to even stay competitive, and now it's a different story. she praised McCain over Obama last week, basically saying to her supporters McCain is better than Obama, if that's not divisive I don't know what is. I'm certain that she is making sure if she doesn't get the nod she wants Obama to loose in the general so she can run again in 2012. the whole experience thing is laughable, really Hillary? what experience? being a former lady of Arkansas? and then being the First lady for eight years? she took an attack strategy from Rove's book and it saddens me to see all of this.

WELCOME TO FRONT RUNNER STATUS BARACK, CAN YOU HANDLE IT? so far it looks like he can't.

You are all delusional. You think Hillary won Texas and Ohio because Rush Limbaugh encouraged Republicans to vote for her? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You are full of negative campaigning. You guys talk so much "smack" about Hillary it's crazy. Look, she's exposing him because quite frankly, she WAS desperate. Politics are nasty--that's the game and that's why we love politics. Sorry if Barack isn't tough enough to stand up to some really minor criticisms maybe it's an indication that he won't be tough enough to beat Hillary and he won't be tough enough to beat John McCain. John McCain was a prisoner of war when Barack Obama was a child living in god knows what country. This election is going to become more and more about the war in Iraq and national security, as it was when Kerry was botched by Bush in 2004. You think Hillary is a bitch? Wait for the Republicans. Didn't you hear the head of the RNC? They've been researching smear leads for months now. They're ready for Barack. If he can't take these 72 hours of "negative press" then he's done in this campaign and in politics in general. Mr. Obama is seriously jaded if he hasn't realized that yet.

paul262 -- just an honest question: have you been to Obama's website and reviewed his specific policies and proposals and compared them to Hillary's?

Barrack Obama's campaign structure has not been above using negatives to get ahead from the start. Check You Tube for ample proof. This is a very one-sided topic, in my opinion. He is not the only victim.

For me, who does not watch TV, Clinton swayed me by her positive message at the Austin rally. She had understandable, clear plans to improve the economy, provide health care for all and withdraw from Iraq. Then she said as president one of the first things she would do was to rescind the Bush executive orders. As far as McCain - I would never vote for him! I think Obama is a great candidate as well and would vote for him over 100-years-of-war McCain. I voted for Clinton in the primaries because I think she's more seasoned, more experience and has been through the heavy hitting media hate machine and survived.

jspear, I don't think people are being critical of Hillary for pointing out policy differences. When she talks about her her healthcare plan has a mandate and his doesn't, okay, that's a fair discussion and one worth having.

The problem (for me at least) is that when she can't win policy arguements she tends to go for the old style "Gotcha!" tactics and personal attacks.

My favorite example would be when, during a debate, Obama was asked about Louis Farrakhan's endorsement of him. Obama spent about 5mins denoucing Farrakhan's anti-semtic rhetoric and making it clear that it was not an endorsement he sought out.

Hillary tried to capitalize on this with a poorly orchestrated "Gothca!" moment by going on and on about how Obama didn't specifically "reject AND denounce" Farrakhan's endorsement. Well, true, he didn't triple dog denounce it either -- but c'mon. She was trying to make an issue out of a non-issue. Obama deftly defused her attack by doing the unthinkable -- he conceded the point! "If you think denounce is more powerful than reject, fine, I both denounce and reject Farrakhan's endorsement."

And then there was her moment wherein she mocked Obama (and by extension all his supporters) with that little skit where she talked about the clouds parting, the music playing and everyone holding hands, ect.

Almost all of her attacks seem to be personal rather than based on actual policy differences and for that people are being more critical of her.

guess you Hillary haters/women haters need to read this and think about it.

Hillary said the other night at the Austin,Texas town hall that the first thing she would do as president is to rescind the “Bush executive orders". This would return the power to the people and less power to the president. (Preventing a Dictatorship)
The second thing that she will do is meet with all Joint Chiefs of Staff and start the process of withdrawing from Iraq.

I am a woman (Mother and wife) and it is time that an experienced woman who cares about children, women- people becomes the next president.
Senator Clinton, if you look at her record has always cared about the American people starting with the children. She has 30 years of experience in politics.

Bottom line the Clinton years were excellent for America and the World. Especially if compared to the last 7 years. We were loved by the world and the USA economy was doing great. EXAMPLES: Largest deficit reduction in history $600,000,000,000.00 (Billon).
The longest economic expansion in US history.
Lowest un-employment.
Highest home owner ship %66.
Lowest number of people on welfare since 1969.
Hillary helped change the adoption laws allowing kids stuck in foster care to move to permanent homes.
She has an excellent environmental record.

Hillary is against Nuclear Energy without having a solution to the toxic nuclear waste it creates.
She is for solar and wind power which creates no waste! i.e. Clean Energy.
Her plan is to create jobs in Clean energy.

BTW to judge a person on one vote (WAR) is very closed minded. Obama was not part of the senate till after the vote. He was elected to the senate long after the Iraq war vote! She voted for the war with all the Bush mis-information as did most the men. She regrets it and has said so many times.

Use your vote. Stop the Clinton winning streak. She won't have more delegates by the convention anyway, but make it a clear case.

I'm tired of the Clintons and their self-righteous approach.

Yes Crob - he does have the edge on personality. He's calm, easy going and not forced. He comes off as sincere - a trait that's easy to like him for.

All's fair in this war to win. Why is that Clinton becomes the evil monger when she plays on mistakes by Obama? I want to know about his history, I want to know that he has had links with bad people. I want to know more about what he stands for than what he says. His charisma is great and I would vote for either but holding hillary to a litmus set higher than the other candidates is horribly wrong. People who feel that Hillary people will vote republican are spreading fear.....;McCain is a republican and more bush like than ever.....

Obama has been criticized for not attacking Hillary hard enough -- or responding in kind to her negative ads.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it?

Obama is preaching a new kind of politics -- one without endless attack ads (like Hillary's 3am spot and others) wherein the announcer with the scary, gravelly voice intones ominously that "Obama is a coward and a liar without the guts to kill terrorists!" (paraphrasing, of course).

Now people are pointing to his kid gloves approach to Hillary's attack ads and making the claim that it cost him critical votes.

I would have to disagree with that. Ohio and Texas were never really his. Obama never had a commanding lead in either state and he finished very, very close. And I think it's worth noting he did it without really going negative.

I have to give the voters more credit. I truly believe that after a solid decade of Rove-style in-your-face over the top attack ads that it has almost no impact on voters anymore. I really don't think significant numbers of people were really swayed by any ad that Hillary put out (although I do think some were swayed to vote against her because her ads were so hamfisted and so typical of the old style attack politics).

I think a huge part of Obama's popularity is that his campaign style is so friendly and so unlike what we've seen over the past decade. I think it would be a mistake if he tried to match Hillary's tone and style.

These guys are similar on policy that the only thing really seperating them is their personality -- and I think Obama has the edge there.

word, marilynn. word. ????????????

Star17537 (or any Hillary supporter) what exactly is the difference between Obama and Hillary?

We keep hearing about this massive difference between their policy positions and their experience -- and yet (to me at least) they seem very similar.

So what exactly are the major policy differences between the two candidates that would make you vote for Hillary as opposed to Obama?

And in terms of "getting things done" -- are you at all concerned that Hillary has a long and bitter history with her Republicans rivals on the other side of the aisle?

Are you concerned that maybe all her great ideas will just die in Congress because she will not be able to get enough votes to make anything happen?

I'm a Hillary supporter, and I know others as well, and we don't support McCain - where is that information coming from? If Obama were to win the Democratic nomination - I would be impressed, and excited, to have him as President. I simply voted for Hillary because I feel she has more experience and with a better cabinet, could get things done.

Why are Obama supporters so against Hillary? Would they vote for McCain instead? It sounds like it....If he's such a gentleman, then why doesn't he and his supporters commend Hillary for even mentioning that she would choose him as Vice? She may be getting ahead of herself, but it seems she's at least trying to mend a ripping seam between us (Clinton & Obama teams).

word, marilynn. word.

How does arranging the spices in the White House kitchen count as experience? I really don't understand how she can count her being Arkansas First Lady, and First Lady of America as experience. Why doesn't anyone challenge that? If that counts does that mean Barbara or Laura Bush are qualified to be President? Come on Obama supporters get busy we don't need another dishonest know it all that doesn't listen to the people for our candidate.

When Ross Perot was explaining that the cheap labor in Mexico would create a "giant sucking sound" as US businesses left America --- I believe it was Bill Clinton (and Hillary) that patiently explained that, no, such a thing would NEVER happen and that obviously Ross didn't understand global economics as well as Bill and Hill did. Hillary, as I recall, chimed in taking time to patiently explain that creating a trade agreement wherein hundreds of manufacturers would be free to leave the US and replace expensive US workers with cheap foreign labor would actually "create millions of jobs in the US."

Is Hillary counting that massive trade blunder as part of her much vaunted "experience"? It is arguably an excellent learning experience....on what not to do.

I think someone should make a vcast as to why Hillary supporters like both Hillary and McCain. What is it about a Democratic candidate (Obama) that they don't like?

Based on Ohio, the most effected area of the country didn't blame her. It's the Hillary and McCain sameness that bothers me. The Republicans want Hillary and their motive is very suspicious to me.

I think her "big wins" in Texas had a lot to do with Republicans voting for Hillary. It was open voting and Rush was on the radio for weeks urging his loyal listeners to go out and get Hillary the vote.

What I've always found curious is that Obama supporters all admit they'd vote for Hillary if she were the nominee because they hate McCain (and Republican philosophy in general).

BUT the Hillary supporters always seem to make a big show about how they'd rather vote for McCain than Obama!

Why?

Well, Hillary is basically a socially liberal/Pro-Choice Republican war hawk. Or just a moderate Republican.

I just think it's very revealing that Hillary's core supporters are basically torn between Hillary and McCain. I guess in the minds of Hillary supporters there isn't much difference between them.

Very revealing.

I'm totally up for that Marilynn, totally!

I don't know if it was the Hillary smears or the Republicans voting Democrat? I know that someone didn't just find a laptop computer belonging to Obama's people. Then find something on it about NAFTA. Right before the voting that would probably have been the end of Hillary's campaign. Was this intended to make people forget Hillary's husband signed NAFTA into law? Gather up and send Obama money and support him in any way you can. I can't stand the thought of a Democrat that employs the tactics that Hillary has in the last week.

It is sad that these tactics worked. Now is the time for Obama to start fighting back. He has plenty of time to correct these negativities and misconceptions and drive it home. He's been trying to conduct his campaign as a gentleman but has no choice now but to show his strength. These Rove tactics from the Clinton campaign are status quo, just like her presidency would be.