Obama speaks on race and racism in the US

I might make a huge difference jawnybnsc if it were you who had to live through those times as a black man. In those times Dr. Vivien Thomas had no choice in the way he lived his life, he was a rare exception because of his gifts and intelligence. He did wonderful things for humanity but it wasn't until almost the end of his life before he was even mentioned as being part of the groundbreaking work developing cardiac procedures to save blue babies that was done at Johns Hopkins. It was many years later before African Americans were able to speak out for any sense of equality without fearing for their lives. It was America then too.

Chique . . . I've seen the movie of which you speak. It stars Mos Def and in no way does it excuse ANYTHING that Dr. Wright has said. I suggest you investigate Dr. Wright's personal background. Like his pupil, he was raised in a fairly stable, middle-class environment. I also find it interesting that you would use this example given the vast gulf between the way Dr. Vivien Thomas chose to live his life and the way Dr. Jeremiah Wright chose to live his.

For those interested in hearing other voices on peace and justice, here is the link to a video of an inspiring speech on the nonviolent movement for justice of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. by his son Martin in Israel last summer in 2007.

Why no media coverage of this speech on peace and the nonviolent movement for change advocated by Dr. King and followed by those who yearn for peace with justice and choose love over hate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rre0qU2l36U

" the fact that he didn't even try to "play" it" ????

Guess you missed the long prep on the CNN stage with trials of different numbers of flags in the background and the long light check to get just the right halo like lighting.

Everyone is being played.

Actions are still more important than words, but in today's America, people are easily manipulated and accept the fake for the real thing.

Ask why America hasn't heard the far more inspirational speeches on race, povery and politics that have been given for decades by proven leaders like Congressman John Lewis.
The media doesn't want you to see the real deal.

Then look at who's funding the commercials - coal, nuclear, same guys who fund Obama.

Sorry okinawanmajik . . . I simply disagree. Further, I don't think there's anything ignorant about it. He did not address the issues, he dodged them with moral equivalencies. He seems to have a very unsophisticated view of white feelings on race . . . which is particularly strange and revealing since he himself is just as white as he is black. It was a florid dodge . . . and your swallowing of the hook doesn't make me want to jump in the boat.

Put it this way... if Obama does not get the nomination, there will be riots. I know this because i'll start one.

Jawny: Recommend you watch the movie "Something the Lord Made" based on a true story about Vivian Thomas (staring Def Mo (sp?)who helped pioneer the first heart surgery at Johns Hopkins despite being unable to go to college. It may give you a little different perspective on the race issue during the of time Rev. Wright's generation.

It would be wonderful to have Obama as a president. He tends to talk more about the issues that matter to me more than Hillary Clinton does.
But either way I'd be happy to have Bush gone.

jawney, i could care less about jesus being black or white, because i already know the answer.....but. i would like to know, what Rev Wright said that was incorrect? im not trying to get you to like what he said, but i would like to know what he said that was incorrect. there isnt a single person here that can.

unpatriotic? thats in the eyes of the beholder.

the thing that people are thinking is that during these specific news clips that everyone has seen, people seem to think that obama was there. the news has led people to believe that A. this was recent. B that he was there in the crowd dring these sermons. C. that because he didnt leave, he must have believed or followed what this man said.

like i said, it took something like this to give the UNEDUCATED of the electorate an excuse to not vote for him. whats funny is he addressed EVERYTHING me and jawney have been arguing about, and jawney like most americans just didnt listen, pay attention, or could care less.

obama addressed everything you are whining about. yet you wanna blame him because of an association? how immature and childish is that? this speach was incredible, yet you people didnt listen to it. it applied to all nationalities and actually many nations with issues like ours. australia, s africa, damn near all of europe, yet people want to say, it was for the educated masses. well actually it was for the ignorant less educated masses. there are far more of those...and those loser idiots are the ones that are flocking to hillary ( i say that not to hate, but the media likes to call them the uneducated blue collar workers....which to me sounds like the loser workerbee idiots) and its those people that always wanted to scapegoat minorities as to the reason they dont have a job..no the reason you dont have a job is because you were to stupid in school! you knocked some broad up, or you dropped out, or you liked to run your fucking mouth during class, and thought all i want to do is work at the mill and buy a truck...and live simple...well when you lost your job....it had to be because of those damn mexicans or blacks....takin jobs from us deserving "AMERICANS" which means white people.

how could you not have your questions answered..unless you are too stupid to understand, or couldnt care less to begin with.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/20/19265/9246/968/481100

another member left this.....its the clintons giving mr wright the racist a commendation..thats why hillary isnt saying anything againt this man....she likes him too!

this is a way better resource for you...
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/

or put another way....

Meyers wanted Obama to say I AM CHEESE.

but instead Obama said, I AM CHEESE. I HAPPEN BY PROCESS OF MILK COAGULATION.

OK . . . that's fine. He took the temperature. Now it's time to prescribe some medicine . . . and so far, I'm not liking what I'm hearing.

At first I agreed with Mr. Meyers. I had the same reaction when I heard parts of the speech.

But then I heard Obama say in so many words exactly what Meyers wanted to hear but was unable to comprehend:

Barack was basically saying 'my pastor's not a crackpot. His experience is real, and it is founded in our history as a nation. You may dismiss him, Media may dismiss him, but I will not. I will, however, stand here manifestly as testament to the progress of society and hope to bring enlightenment to people of my pastor's mentality.'

And now we learn that Obama's dear grandmother is a typical white person . . . that is to say . . . a racist. Dude, put down the shovel and find the duct tape.

okinawanmajik, why don't you ask those questions of Obama? He seems to have already made those determinations.

Dude . . . why do I keep getting dragged into this "Jesus was black" conversation? It doesn't interest me the least little bit, is a total distraction and I never argued for either proposition.

Oh! If only we could accomplish that Stephen, it would fix so much that's wrong with politics in this country.

I must say, it was a good speech and all, and I like Obama a whole lot, and I think he's good, strong, intelligent, and would serve brilliantly as a leader.

STILL - to say on the very day the speech was given that it "Made History" is questionable. If he landed himself on Mars, that would be an immediate historical landmark. But a speech is only as powerful as its reception. So I think before we go claiming that Obama just "made history" we ought to let it sink in.

Did they know on the very day that MLK gave his I Have a Dream speech that it would be his greatest oratorical legacy? These things take time.

Obama has given a lot of speeches. They're all great. I specifically remember the one he gave at the 2004 DNC, how everyone looked at eachother and said, "first black president, right there."

The real question concerning the "event" of this speech is....

HAS HE ELEVATED THE CONVERSATION?

I think so. It would have been easy for him and politically routine to denounce his pastor's behavior, but instead he defended him, saying that human relationships are more complex than the simple sound bytes that Media offers. To that i say BRAVO. SO TRUE.

And if we are to take that message seriously, then we will know that MEDIA itself must be reformed.

Conjecture as to his motivation is on every channel and in every conversation Krag. I choose to believe what he says is in his heart until he proves otherwise.

Jawny and Majik: I don't think Jesus cares whether we think of him as black or white and even he isn't going to get you two to agree on anything.

Opinions are different than facts Anjela3. If asking you to back up the things you claim are facts upsets you...well I don't know what to tell you.

As for your opinion, I find it amazing how you can see into Obama's heart and tell what his motivation for this speech was. That is a gift.

I agree that he had a bad week and you might THINK his only motivation was damage control (and giving some white guys bonners). I THINK there may have been more to it than that. But even you would have to agree that there were other, less risky, things he could have done to control the damage.

I would like to know what Rev Wright said that was incorrect? no one seems to want to address that!!! he is racist? really? how? what makes h im a racist? what about what he said makes him a racist? or maybe, he just threw what white people have done, right back into your face...and you didnt like it?

hmmmm?

But a lot of us aren't running for president. It speaks of character and honesty.Don't say you don't know about his beliefs and then backtrack about it on TV after the evidence proves otherwise. It says something about your character and your ability to be straightforward with people from the get go. However, it seems politicians on the whole have a problem with that.

A lot of us have friends that say and do things we disagree with, but they're still friends delzakiya. Obama didn't say those things and it had everything to do with the issue.

it was a good speech that had nothing to do with the issue, his close relationship with a "good hearted" racist.

OK, good speech. I recant my statements.

No, I had only seen 9 minutes of it. I just watched all 4 downloads which comprised the full 37 minute version.

Obama pointed out a lot about the divisiveness that race has played in our country's narrative. I stand corrected for my ignorantly narrow view of the American public and the issue of race in shaping people's perspectives.

Maybe i assumed race played no real part in anything because I come from an all white upbringing. People of other races have never done me any wrong, so it's never been an issue for me personally.

I also highly applaud Obama's defense of the pastor and his attempt to shine a broader more humanely comprehensive light on the full character of the pastor than the Media had allowed.

I enjoyed all 37 minuites I think to watch it otherwise probably won't do it justice. It isn't perfect but it runs circles round the current state of American political discourse and it repeatedly refers to itself and the candidate behind it as imperfect but that the idea of this country isn't to be perfect at the onset but to form a more perfect union. That is a constitutional principle and it's one I endorse after seven years of constitutional abuse. I respect eloquence and I respect plain speach and candor. Elevating a discussion and talking to us as adults I appreciate.

This is an interesting election and regardless of its outcome I feel I have been able to take something positive away from it because of speeches like this and seeing youth like "ashley' from the speech working and working hard in a way that has never been seen before is very heartening.

Not sure if you're kidding or not Stephen, but the entire speech is written out in the link above. If that was tongue in cheek, ignore me.

OH WAIT..... apparently there's more to the speech than the 9 minutes I saw.

Pending judgement.

Oh, Krag, thanks for allowing my poorly backed posts to be 'worthy' of consideration? While there is no doubt Obama's greatest gift is his use of words, I will repeat that it is too bad that this was a speech performed simply because it was a bad political week based on the exposed comments made by Obama's close, by his own admission, associate Rev Wright. This speech was constructed for the rich white guys in the press that get a boner when they think of Obama for president. It was delivered so they could finally, after a suck ass week for Obama because of Wright, the white guys could have something great to say about Obama again. Obama's gift is his speech making. Unfortunately, the speech does nothing to change the fact that Obama has for his entire adult life, spent his spiritual life embracing the words of the Reverend. And for all the screaming from the black community about racist white America, the fact is the Reverend exposed, in public, the racist black America. And Obama is, by default as he claims or by design very much a member of that mind set.
Now I am glad this inspires you. Anything that gets fat ass lazy ass Americans OFF their asses to do something to make this a better place is a good thing. I happen to believe none of this has anything to do with whether or not someone is qualified to be President...which, again, is the reason why this speech was constructed. NOT because he felt a desire to bring a message a nation (as WAS the case of MLK and Lincoln as the speech has been compared to). It was constructed, again, because of a bad political week.
And, my posts also respond to others. Some of the posts here only perpetuate the hate white America message delivered by Wright. This further supports the notion that this message, of which Obama has at the least been a passive party to (by his own admission in his speech) is one that permeates through at least some portion of the black community. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with anything I have to say. In fact, I rather enjoy the exchanges here and as I have said before, find them very revealing. And maybe, just maybe, I'm just pushing buttons. But, if any of it annoys you, just ignore anything you every see from me. It will make your journey much easier. My feelings won't be hurt I promise.

I stand corrected.

JFK was perfect, here is the proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCrovnNGdSg

To jawny...and all of you who seem to be waiting for Jesus H. Christ (pick a freaking color) to come down and run for president. Good luck...enjoy your wait.

Obama's not perfect. Nobody is. Hillary isn't and neither was Bill (guess that goes without saying). Reagan wasn't. Lincoln wasn't. Hell, Martin Sheen wasn't perfect and he wasn't even really the President. Jimmy Smits might have been close, but alas...no cigar (Clinton pun not intended).

You know how I know Obama's not perfect? Well I have basic common sense...AND he said it in his speech yesterday. He's not claiming to be anything he isn't. But I have to say...the idea of a President who can admit a mistake after the last 7 years we've been though. Well, that's something I think could be very good for this country, and maybe the world.

Not to throw stones at Hillary, but I think there's still the matter of a certain mistake that she's hasn't copped to just yet...

Well as long as the issue of jesus' race is totally wide open and since there really is no proof just speculation, I think I'll imagine Jesus as a Samurai, maybe like Toranaga from shogun, yeah that works for me.

Is nobody concerned about the fact that this is all forming a pattern now? Why do we have to drag the truth out of Obama at every turn? First Rezko and now this. This does not bode well for a candidate who wants to change things in Washington.

Look man . . . go save the earth. More power to you. I just don't believe what you believe. None of that has anything to do with politics or what motivates me otherwise. I believe in science and fact first and foremost and I'm not convinced that you, the President, Al Gore or anybody else has the power to change climate.

Why do you think I need a history lesson? I'm well versed in the history and ethnography of the region about which we are speaking. You really overestimate yourself, don't you?

I agree with stephenthomson. Forget Race.

yea a picture of jesus! great job! i checked for you....it not only pretty much confirms what i said, but details that just about EVERYONE in the bible was...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus

and the romans...were multicultural....but mainly macedonian. originally from the caucus mountains region...which makes them?..umm

so when dr wright said jesus was a black man ruled by white people...um he isnt entirely incorrect.

not that any of this matters, im just posting this fact (according to most) to smack the "uhem" that wants to say dr wright was wrong. i know none of this matters...but the reason white people make jesus white is to empower him (which was against catholic law at the time) and africans whom ACTUALLY CREATED THE CHRISTIAN FAITH (originally abbysinian or ethiopian)...and christ is not originally a greek word, it was an ancient coptic word...for spirit. coptic christians prayed to christ. infact most nubians and abbysinians (infact..um wasnt moses wife abbysinian? which is ethiopian) prayed to christ. I could give you a brief history lesson, mr jawney or tj..but im sure you wouldnt get it anyways.

funny thing is all this is in the last place you'd look.....A BOOK!

By the way guys, there's a good article on the Historical Jesus over at Wikipedia. Instead of all this off topic yakkity-yak, why don't both of you go check it out. They've got a picture and everything.

Is anyone the least bit put off by the media's reaction to this? I mean Chris Matthews comparing this to the Gettysburg Address and I Have a Dream? A bit much, don't you think? It's kind of hard to claim you don't have an agenda when you spray your shorts every time Obama says boo.

certainly with that attitude, Jawny, it will be over.

Well . . . this is off topic, but I'm not convinced we have the power to doom or to save. Perhaps this discussion should take place in one of the numerous environmental threads here at current. Perhaps I can make myself a pariah there as well.

tjrust....you need to learn to read, because I did answer that! go back and read! we know you cant spell, but read too?

and yes you are right, i do dispise it. doesnt make what i say incorrect? it makes me wrong maybe. wrong for saying it, but not incorrect...big diff. and yes you are correct. i am out. but please...im begging you....please...point out one thing that he said was wrong! just one! just one!!! and yes, by all accounts, Isa (jesus) was rather dark skinned. just because your grandma has a painting of hay-zeus on the wall, doesnt mean he actually looked like that. if yoou knew anything, until homeboy ( cant remember the artist) painted jesus, it was kinda frowned upon to paint images of jesus. so with that said....how can you say mr wright was wrong?

so sir, your assumption would be incorrect. if you care to stop looking stupid, you should research what you say. because most, if not all archeologist would tell you that you are incorrect. and Rome? i dont think i have to say it again.

is it so difficult to assume that maybe or actually; more than likely, your lord and saviour was a brotha!!
thats like minister farad...the founder of the nation of islam, WAS WHITE!! didnt know that did you?

If we can believe what was said in his speech, wouldn't that be great. I have heard so many politicians speak that I'm numbed with party lines and outright lies. I suppose I'm waiting for that one person that will tell it straight for all people and then back that up. I don't think Democrats or Republican either one have a monopoly on the truth or lies. I think they both mix it up enough to slip their agendas in.

certainly with that attitude, Jawny, it will be over.

If our next president does not address Global Warming as a primary concern, then it's all over.

You should be prepared for the eventuality that whether the next President addresses Global Warming or not . . . it's all over. Climate change and species extinction are both facts that this planet has dealt with for over 4 billion years. Better get used to it.

Forget race.

If our next president does not address Global Warming as a primary concern, then it's all over.

its spelled CHOIR!!

and aside from saying he was full of hate, CAN ANYONE STATE A SINGLE THING THAT JERAMIAH WRIGHT SAID THAT WAS INCORRECT? I MEAN REALLY! I HAVE ASKED 5 TIMES NOW! STATE ONE THING...PLEASE!

i dont like the guy either, because i think christian churches are a scam, but i know truth or at least plausability.

also, ask yourselves this, who created the black chruch? if you say black people, YOU WOULD BE INCORRECT! who didnt want to SERVE OR PRAISE GOD WITH BLACKS IN THIS COUNTRY? wasnt black people doing it.

thats the big hypocracy with christianity. and what i said on the first page of this long ass thread..unfortunately the faith and the people that follow it cannot be separated. I wrote an essay called "jesus was a suicide bomber" if you can see the reference then you would understand it. the big difference is white churches are about ...well i dont know what they are about because i dont go, but i have gone to black churches, and for us, it historically was our safe haven, until "SOMEONE" started bombing them and burning them down. but we congregate and talk about our lives, our community, and politics. and white people i assume have it this way in some churches as well. if not, then why do they always court preachers when they run. politics and religion go hand and hand. and if a man questions foreign policy or talks about social issues in his church, well thats what they do. if you dont like what he says, well then either dont go, or stop listening. but if he says...dont committ adultry, and you are in church with your girlfriend, or you know you are cheating on your spouse, do you stop going because you clearly believe in cheating on your wife?

put it in perspective. ohh and by the way, i just made $49k today! (actually in 30 mins!!) i am the friggin man!! charge them visa's bitches!!!!!! hahaha!

im going to go run a few miles...have fun!

Heard one of Obama's financial advisors on NPR last night on the radio going home. He said Obama was for $30B bailout if that stabilized our economy. Sounds like he would have approved it also.

Senator Obama's willingness to sustain a relationship with a man who's views he sometimes [vehemently] disapproved of exemplifies his innate propensity to transcend the differences between himself and others. Too often in this country we are forced to choose sides. One cannot question the occupation in Iraq without being "Anti-American." One cannot consider herself a "pro-life" advocate while concurrently upholding a woman's right to choose. What would life be like if we consistently chose to forsake those who's ideals we did not embrace. We need to extend to strangers the same level of tolerance we extend to those family members whose views we don't always agree with. Our foreign policy demands a leader who isn't afraid to talk to his adversaries. Instead, we continue to foster and promote an atmosphere of hostility with leaders of nations whose oil we so desperately depend on.

Our history in this nation until recently has been full of words. After all our constitution, our declaration of independence, our bill of rights are all simply written documents without the faith of the American people. There was a wonderful point made in a book recently called the Age of Unreason that speeches were made out of respect in past generations, speeches were made to win the faith of the American people because without that faith documents which are the sole action of the legislative and executive office are meaningless. Without the consent of the governed in this nation a politician is nothing. We were the people and now it seems speeches are meant to placate, to ask forgiveness for actions already decided upon not to earn our faith but to condone actions which act against it.

Here is just a small list of words that were more than words and should still be more than words to Americans. To this nation of authors that was born in ink and parchment in a sweltering Philadelphia summer in 1787 with the notion We the People.

"Either we shall hang together or we shall surely hang apart." "A nation of the people for the people and by the people shall not perish from this Earth." "A house divided can not stand." "You have a republic if you can keep it." "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal." "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." "We shall go to the moon, and do the other things, not because these tasks are easy but because they are hard." "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." I had a dream...that my children would be judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin."

Why in a modern world a less problematic world however we may regard it do we discard words. Words that have buoyed and strengthened us that have called us to purpose. Are we so accustomed to being talked down to or pandered to that we can not recall imperfect men and women though they may have been imperfect ideas though they may have put forth the success and triumphs or this nation as a people that were started by words and that have propelled us through two centuries without end. I want for my generation to add to those words, to take their part and parcel of this nation which I do believe is great if we choose to make it great.

If it is impossible in a day of cynics to speak with conviction, with reserve, and without fear than we no longer live in a nation that values its liberty. What use is the freedom of speech if those who bled in service of constitutional ideals bled for weak and dispassionate arguments. We need to value and stand by our words and our history of them and on occasion be moved to action by them.

My generation has been accused so often of saying more than any previous generation to more people than have ever existed in any previous generation while still saying less than any generation before us. I was thoroughly moved by this speech tonight. Reminded of the history of this great nation a history that is often both aggrandized and ignored. A history that includes horrible injustices and also undeniable triumphs of justice. This contradictory legacy is in and of itself a part of the malleable concepts that are put forth at our founding, of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As barack stated time and time again tonight it is imperfect but the goal of words or laws in this country is to gain the faith of the American people and to make this a more perfect union.

Wow...this thread has jumped the shark. Cosmo, Chique and majik thanks for the contributions (each in your own way) to keeping it real and interesting, but I think I'm going to move on to other issues at this point. Again, I learn a lot from everybody who posts, even the people who don't seem to think (or bother to read) before they belch out their thoughts. anjela3, nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't post, but if you do, you should be prepared to take some criticism and maybe back up what you say. That's all.

It's a journey...better enjoy the trip.

i'd vote for Oprah or Condie - best of both worlds . However , it'd be much cooler if , while in office , they admitted to being lesbo and converted to Islam , then , laterly ( say , within 3 months of their first term ) decided to vacate office and become a saddhu in India , or a mendicant beggar in some backwoods province of southern france , or a basque seperatist , or a homeless advocate for legalized prostitution .

yes i do know wht tht means. funny would should say that! sounds like you are a pauline hanson fan huh?

dont try to make obscure references unless you know people dont know what you mean...makes you sound pretty limited minded!

pauline hanson for president huh?

Don't forget to put the lid back on the Vaseline.

Gonna leave this conversation now,, where's John Howard when we need him?

If you don't know what that means Okinawanmajik, google it.

have a nice life in palestine.

bro im tired of pissing in your face..er i mean the wind....this argument is going no where, and we are kind of dominating the disscussion..neither of us are going to stop....so im going to. have fun.

it's not going happen. if Obama lose's MaCane WIN'S
LOL

also, that main gd speech was on sep 16th 2001. and what he said was that the united states was a state sponsor of terrorism (which it is) and that they support the isreali gov suppression and murder of the palestinians. ( which is true) and that the chickens were coming home to roost (which was true). so america was only getting back what it dished out around the world.

so god bless america? no god damn"ed" america for what it has done all over the world.

hell yea thats true! you know i got arrested that day in kansas city. i was there for a seminar, and we watched the planes smack them buildings..and i remember saying..please be like okc ( i lived down the street from the murrah bldg in okc in heritage hills neighborhood i ran down there to help) when we were at lunch...i remember someone saying, that all muslims should be killed. and being the person I am, i said, hey bro...calm down..you dont know who did what. the guy said fuck that...you know its them..all of them are like that. and I said well maybe, but "they" are not like that...not all of "them" I didnt say i was yet because these people were pissed, and I didnt want any trouble..and i cant whoop a whole restaurant. and then one of the guys in my group said..yea if i saw one right now, id stomp the shit out of him...man or woman. and i said...dude..let it go...and then the whole restaurant started up ( this was a diner in shawnee mission) finally one of those people said...i wish there was one in here now..im so pissed. so finally fed up i said...YOU KNOW WHAT, IM A MUSLIM, YOU WANNA KILL A FUCKING MUSLIM, START WITH ME. silence..then it was on!

when it was all over...i got arrested for starting the fight...they dropped the charges eventually. the people that ran the seminar came and got me...but while in there..i got fucked up by the police.

after that i really could care less. not only did this place hate me because of my colour, but was willing to kill me because of my faith. so no bro, i could care less about people like that...they were just simple average ordinary random sample of the population which leads me to believe all america is like that.. im sure dr wrights experiences were like that as well.

me feeling how i do makes me evil..? a hate monger? no it makes me the victim of vigilante violence. public violence. who knows what would have happened if the cops hadnt come...but then again, i got fucked up when they did.

that your america?

It'll wind down soon enough . . . just chill.

jawnybnsc, can you two take it outside?

majik, bye bye. Why wait for an education? You can get one anywhere. Hell you can be an MD in Costa Rica if you have a decent enough HS background. Or is it that you KNOW its better here? Either way, the thing about being here in the US is that you ARE free to go and do pretty much anything you wish to, despite how your, or anyone's, ancestors had to suffer and work for that right. But, snub your nose at it and run away. That is the "easier" way to deal with your issues....run away from them. Too bad your slave ancestors couldn't do that and had to suffer through getting to the point where you, finally, have the freedom to do just that.

okinawanmajik,

That is a ridiculous argument and could just as easily be used by a member of the Klan. You really are making a first class fool of yourself.

you claim "all accounts", was that a general term or can you give me an account that says he was black? Something that says it concretely. Not some Anthropologists opinion.

He said Jesus was a black man. Where do black men come from?

For all i care Obama could stand up and fall down muttering in tongues , or Hillary could all of a sudden grow horns and impale Bill , so long as one of them gets elected i'll be happy . Yep , i'm thinking long term - i want what's best for this country - i'm not even a x-an , but if our next president is black or female i don't give a f--k what their religious orientation is . I'd readily vote for a mute , blind, mixed race trans-sexual with AIDS and delusions of being the emperor of mars .

ok ill say it...-od damn amerikkka!! so what? you tell me what experiences you have that can possibly counter that feeling i may have in my heart. what do you know about his life that has caused him to feel that way..and simply saying you know hate is different from saying something he said was incorrect! which you cannot!

and the fubu is alot of things jt..but the 05 is something specific. so those jamaicans clearly didnt tell you. but its ok..most african americans dont know either....only the few of us.hahaha you have no idea how funny this is...

give it to me baby!! uh uh!! and all the girlys cry im really fly....for a white guy!! hahaha

okinawanmajik "you people are friggin retards!"

Pretty ugly word.

actually jesus by all accounts was a black man. he was of african decent...he may have been a jew, but most jews if not all at the time were of abbyssinian decent..like the falashas. at the time the romans although the one and only true multicultural society ( still had its problems) was still undoubtly a caucasian ruled nation.

when jesus left across the sinai...he went to africa. he came back in my belief with the coptic's teachings. now im sure he blended in with those people in AFRICA...and being that he was able to blend in...he must have been black. any anthropologist can tell yoou that the jews that live in palestine now do not look like the ones there now...those people came from Europe by and large.

and i dont think he said jesus was african american. if you heard that then you need to wash!....over and over again. he never said that.

Kind of self-evident isn't it? That sort of hatred is wrong . . . not in an objective and quantifiable way . . . but subjectively and in your gut you know it's wrong. Take what you feel in your gut when you read that and know that that's what I feel in my gut when I hear Dr. Wright. I recognize hate and have an aversion to it. I don't wish to debate the right or wrong of it. White Devil, AmeriKKKa, God Damn America . . . wrong, wrong, wrong.

david dukes said in a speech with tom metzger in 1986 in ft worth that "black people, and the other sog races, although human, have been condemned to their places in gods eyes because he realised the mistake he made when he created them. and because he cannot simply destroy them because the glorious white race needs them, he has put the white race in control to control their populations and to give them someone to serve."

your turn. I know malcolm X speeches by heart if you want to hear any of those!

I'll tell you one thing that J. Wright said that as far as I know is wrong. He said that Jesus was a black man living under a white mans rule. Jesus was a jew, thats not african-american. Also Romans were Italians, they're about as dark as jews. Look up pictures of them on the internet, check it out. They're not very far apart in color.

Arrrggggghhhhhh!!!

do you mean "for us by us" or "five urban brothers united". I never said I knew what the 05 was, I don't remember that being on their shirts and it wasn't discussed. It could be for the 5 creators of the company of the latter. If thats not right you can enlighten me or you can choose to keep your secret. It's up to you, not loosing any sleep either way.

I'll tell you something that Jeremiah Wright has said that's wrong as soon as you tell me something that David Duke has said that's wrong. Have fun!

but are we going to make this the main issue in deciding who leads this country out of the other huge problems we face?

Well . . . yes! Poor judgment on this issue sort of spills over into other areas. That's the whole point of all this. We are evaluating the fitness of this man to be President of the United States. This won't be his last test and this is not a coronation. As voters, we all have an obligation to do our due diligence here. You want to shirk that duty in service of the vision that you've written on this blank slate . . . so be it. I lean a little more toward service to my civic duty.

so little you know. i can get it from anywhere on the planet! so you give, because you cannot. JAWNEY CANNOT COME UP WITH A SINGLE THING BECAUSE HE KNOWS IM RIGHT!!

thats a cop out dude. just one thing bro...ONE thing. i know you can do it!! just one. dont punk out like that man. you are telling me how bad i am or how bad obama is for having a preacher that is...ummmCORRECT!! tell me one thing that makes him wrong...ANYONE! CAN ANYONE COME UP WITH ONE THING THAT DR WRIGHT SAID THAT WAS WRONG?

fubu? what is it? and the 05?

We haveThe Audacity to Hope that this man well be the next President of these United states. this is what it takes for a black man to come President. no matter how much Good he can do

No bro . . . actually I'm not. I'm actually finished with your silliness. Good luck with that VISA IPO. Too bad you'll only be able to enjoy the benefits of this country that you so despise for a little while longer.

Okinawanmajik, do Obama a favor and stop spewing vitriol. If anybody is on the fence about supporting him and views you opinions of Americans and thinks your a supporter, it can't help him much. Are you sure you're not a Republican out to sabotage him?

I'm still on the fence about him but this isn't helping.

A country if defined by the ideals of the people in it, not the peoples of other countries. Thats why its called national pride. Maybe you need to get some or go to Palestine and get some on the Gaza strip. I think they could really use a free-thinker over there right now.

The opinions posted on this thread are a perfect example of what Obama was talking about . . . finally we're talking about the divisive issue of race in this country that still exists. As someone said, it's the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that everyone avoids.

We all learn from communication if our minds are open, without communication we stagnate. Part of the problem is that we all live in comfortable little boxes that are our belief systems that help us make sense of our lives. Anytime we have a issue within that belief system challenged it's uncomfortable. Our natural response sometimes is to challenge an idea that makes us uncomfortable by justifying, sometimes in illogical ways, what we thought was true. We don't particularly like "uncomfortable". We can justify anything if we want to believe it badly enough, but rarely grow in that mind set.

On religion, let's take for example a Catholic woman with 6 children, economically challenged, who hears her pastor tell the congregation that they're doomed to hell for practicing birth control, or a man with a genetic defect that will cause great harm to a child in passing it on is told he can't get a vasectomy because it's a form of birth control - same result. These people are there to worship God and they're listening to a Priest who supposedly represents God, but he's not God. Should they blindly follow this man to their detriment? Does this mean they should leave their faith even if most of the doctrines of the church represent their faith? These are personal choices and all Priests, Reverends, Pastors are individual human beings practicing religion in a multitude of variations, in churches all over the world. Listening to any of them, when wrong, doesn't make the entire congregation guilty by association because they were listening. Nor does it automatically mean their Pastor is wrong about everything. As individuals we decide individually what we choose to believe as being right and what we choose to believe as wrong.

In order to get the "change" we all want so badly, we also have to be open to it. We can stay with the status quo because it's comfortable and what one particular black church said may not be comfortable for some - but are we going to make this the main issue in deciding who leads this country out of the other huge problems we face?

Obama inspires me to believe that we can face these problems if we're united. Obama courageously spoke the truth today about where he stands on the race issue. Controversial? Yes. Refreshing from a political candidate? Absolutely. More status quo because it's comfortable and familiar and change scares us? I agree with Obama . . . Not this time!

jawney...that was typical too. you cant come up with one because you dont know one. you cant. its coming from a perspective you cant identify with. and you cant come up with anything because it was true! by and large! everything of what we all saw on tv was 10000% true.

while you try to come up with something, ill be looking at my stock profile so i can shift some money around to get me some of that visa IPO. id rather work on making money, than listen to your cheap attempts at clowning me.

just one. thats all i ask. i know you are probably on you tube ACTUALLY watching them trying to come up with something...but not what you dont like the most, but what was incorrect! what did he say that was incorrect?!

no anjela. no one has to agree with me. ever. but there is a difference between being right, and being correct. although you all might be right in your perspectives, you are not correct. and your fabrications display that.

you dont know me, and yes when i finish school, i am leaving the country. i do not care about what happens here. thats my decision. what do you have to say about it? negative, positive..i dont care. but unfortunatly until im naturalized somewhere else, i will be unfortunate to have the united states of america on my passport.

maybe ill sell my citizenship to someone..or my SSN. i wont need it.

you want this country in ya'lls image and ideals....you can have it. but you are not alone...people on TV feel the same way. i guess i know how my family felt in the 50's 60's 30's 20's teens, 40's evens, 70's 80's the whole 1800's the whole 1700's the whole 1600's.

you still never came up with one thing that dr wright said that was wrong

That's because the question does not merit a response. I'm not the least bit interested in a debate over issues of race with you. I find just about everything that Dr. Wright said distasteful and repugnant. His rhetoric is undignified and unworthy of debate. If I came here and asked you to discuss the merits of some speech given by the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, would you have much tolerance or patience for that exercise?

doubt what? I notice you didn't have a politician in mind that didn't turn or disappoint at some point in time.

Does free speech only work in one direction? Is it OK for people to express what they think only as long as it agrees with your opinion? Otherwise, F**k all this, I'm outa here? If so, good luck on your journey. The ability to express our well thought out (although this is not always the case) opinions without killing each other, OR wishing each other be destroyed, is what should be one of our greatest strengths.

tjrust..i doubt it really!

thanks jawney....you still never came up with one thing that dr wright said that was wrong.

Okinawanmajik,, don't let the door hit you ....

hey okinawanmajik,

DLTDHYWTGLSY

Where is your evidence that Wright's behavior was consistently divisive, other than the ranting we have all seen replayed lately? I suspect that if Dr. Wright were a man who consistently preached division, we would all have been treated to the evidence by now.

You don't get to set the bar for me, nor do you get to set the bar for the electorate who will ultimately decide whether these explanations settle the issue. My tolerance for hatred . . . and particularly hatred uttered from the pulpit . . . is VERY LOW.

If Senator Obama (or you or me or anyone else) were to reject a church when and if any member (or a Pastor) said something disagreeable to us or to the congregation, what church in the U.S. would be left to join? In what specific church (and you must know at least one) do people not harbor and show hatred, envy, greed, lust, misjudgment, pain, or simmering resentment? In what church are the members- ALL of the members) infallible? Where is the church composed of individuals so lily-white that they would meet your obviously high standards? If you know one, please tell me so that I watch as they, sinless, cast stones at others.

I suppose that's a matter of personal judgment. Sure, I've heard things I disagree with in church. I've never heard a pastor condemn ANY RACE or CREED in all the days that I've attended church. There are levels of disagreement that can be tolerated. Racial hatred from the pulpit rises to the level of that which should NOT be tolerated. NOT one single instance . . . and I don't think I'm the only one who holds to such a standard. Your argument about the rest of the congregation and what it says and does I see as irrelevant.

Your argument, in my opinion, rests on the faulty assumption that a man must not have associated with humanity if he wishes to be President.

Huh?

If that were true, the fact that young George W, Bush enjoyed blowing up frogs with firecrackers would have barred him from high office. His drinking and cocaine use, which he finally managed to control, would have branded him unfit to serve. And his displays of vulgarity (including giving a TV cameraman the finger) and hatred (describing a reporter as an "asshole") would have proven him human and, therefore, not qualified to state his philosophy, love his family, and propose his own solutions to societal challenges. He would have been barred from any perfect church.

I don't give a rat's fart about George W. Bush. That's a total distraction and you know it.

By criticizing Barack Obama for attending a church where someone said something you object to, you are creating a false standard in order to smear him.

I haven't smeared anyone. I've asked questions that a whole lot of other Americans are asking. Obama legitimizes the questions by the very act of giving a speech on it today. In my opinion he fell short. That's not a smear. I honestly had hoped for better.

I heard the speech today. Sounded pretty good. Proof is always in action, talk is always really cheap. I've seen some pretty cheap remarks in this post so far also I might say. A lot of people taking this personal.

Just wait for Obama to disappoint you, because if he doesn't he'll be the first politician in how many years to not do that? He'll disappoint you because he's a man not a messiah. Not saying I'm against him. He sounded pretty good today, but I just have no faith in politicians in general. They basically all want your vote and then stab you in the back. I need someone to post the last politician they know that didn't sell out on some level.

If you want to know what Obama will do go and check out his voting record:
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490
Thats his action, not just talk.

Okinawanmajik, you appear to be an angry individual with a lot of prejudice. Out to set the white world straight, good luck with that. I have Jamaican friends that wear fubu shirts, I know what it means *S*.

great back up cosmo....you know, the more I read people's completely ignorant views of things, and the more i watch these idiots on tv..the more I start to care less. not really about the election, but this country as a whole. I really dont care all that much about this place anyways, but during the course of this election, i have actually though i have seen promise in this nation. Its rapidly leaving me faster than when it came.

this was the absolute perfect opportunity to discuss this issue and confront it like no other former slave trading nation has, and its had the opposite effect. those people that brought this into the race won. point blank. You see the true heart of a nation when its faced with its biggest underlying problem, and it acts as if it doesnt exist. this nation and its people disgust me really.

i usually could care less, and gave it a chance..its lost. terrorist can bomb the shit out of you all, no matter where they come from..i dont care. just dont kill me. the economy can fall apart, i dont care. im going to finish school, and get the fuck outta here!

have fun being stupid!

America, love it or leave it, but if you love it, get off your fat ass and do something to fix it if you think its broken. Don't sit on the couch with the laptop and remote and bitch as your sole contribution. If thats all you got, you ARE the probelm.

Any Christian who believes in Hell, which is 99.99% of all Christians, accept that Jews and Muslims and Budhists and Athiests will be tortured burning in a lake of fire for not being Christians.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain are all professed Christians who believe that Jesus Christ is their savior(from Hell).

Everyone who is crying 'hate speach' about the pastor's words and decrying Obama for going to that church are being completely blind or hypocritical considering the fact that most Christians accept a religion that preaches eternal torture for anyone who isn't a part of the religion.

Give me a break. This is all hypocritical.

Rev Wright didn't say anything compared to the hate stated in a sermon that demands all convert to the Christian religion or they will be tortured burning in a lake of fire for eternity by a loving God.

Any Christian who believes in Hell, which is 99.99% of all Christians, accept that Jews and Muslims and Budhists and Athiests will be tortured burning in a lake of fire for not being Christians.

Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain are all professed Christians who believe that Jesus Christ is their savior(from Hell).

Everyone who is crying 'hate speach' about the pastor's words and decrying Obama for going to that church are being completely blind or hypocritical considering the fact that most Christians, including all of the Presidential accept a religion that preaches eternal torture for anyone who isn't a part of the religion.

Give me a break. This is all hypocritical.

i think many of you need to listen to this. most of you have no clue what its like to grow up the decendant of slaves. you really dont. you have no clue. you are taught in school that you are nothing. you came from nothing. that you are ugly. that your people come from apes and the jungle and that your colour is ugly. that any person that has a even a drop of your blood is just as terrible as you. every negative word to describe anything else starts with black. you dont see yourself in movies. and when you do, you are the bafoon. you are called a nigger, a coon, you are denied the right to vote, you are denied the right to serve your country..to die for your country....

the problem with this argument is that you cant have the argument with the people, or the decendants of the people that kept you as slaves because they cannot identify. Ohh we can be hateful towards white people, and white people can complain about that, but seriously...if you cant identify, you cant possibly comprehend. regardless of the gender. af-americans should be envied to be honest! envied! we have gone through all that, and still do to this day...and we still percevere! when i was in high school, white people thought i hated white people because i always spoke out ( my high school had a huge race riot it was bad..del city, oklahoma)...black people thought i wanted to be white because of how i talked and how i dressed...as if white people have the monopoly on diction and dress ( english was my second language due to my family travelling the world as a kid, so i have no accent and speak perfect english)

its an argument we simply cant have. but underestand that there are seperate perspectives that should be respected. sure no white person was alive so we cant hold you responsible, but at the same time, you carry with you your biases and stereotypes from your family. passed down. black people need to stop expecting white people to understand...they never will. stop trying to make them...trust me, they dont want to...they couldnt handle it in my opinion..

if we can start each comment off with,..well this is how i see it, it would be better. because it is possible that someone just didnt know..

i go back and read some of my comments and i think..maybe someone is that nieve or maybe they just dont care. so i apologies if i have offended someone. i dont know anyones experiences, i only know my own..but dont for a second deny me mines if you dont know them.

i still aint telling you what the FUBU05 means!!

In a larger context , and regardless of what either Hillary or Obama say at this point , having either one elected would constitute a huge , unprecedented paradigm shift for this country - the symbolic impact alone , even if neither did a thing in office of any consequence , would go a long way towards changing the perception of " american-ness" itself - for the better . Arguing about who said what is almost mundane by comparison - i wish i could vote for both - or that one would serve as vice-president for the other .

9 million lbs gorrilla in the room..CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT DR WRIGHT SAID THAT WAS INCORRECT?!

PLEASE! ANYTHING.... kragg your avitar is gangter!!

people are getting bent out of shape because of what someone else said....so all americans are idiots? because america is WAY down on the education charts compared to the world!! guilt by association. do we all approve of the iraq war because bush does? did we approve of the columbine killings because some other americans perpetrated it? do we agree with everything each candidate has said? if so then why run? guilt by association. has your teacher said something stupid in class? did you leave? so if yoou didnt leave, does that mean you agree? do you all have douchebag friends that you wouldnt trust with used toilet paper, yet yoou keep them as friends?

you people are friggin retards! you never heard him say any of this!

i heard someone mention farrakhan..now i dont follow him at all, but you tell me....for those of you that REALLY DO KNOW WHO HE IS.. why dont you like him? do you know why? or are you just following popular support to not like him?! some of your follower posers are insane really! name one thing!

anjela3...did you listen to or read the whole speech? With all due respect. You either didn't or made up your mind long before you did.

I don't think the "America...love it or leave it" is going to play well here.