Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!

Patrick . . . to follow up:

You have deducted that Obama is not a uniter nor a Christian because . . .

He said his grandmother who raised him was a typical white woman who at one time had prejudices . . . and because he said that Pennsylvanians, who feeling they have no control over their jobs or the economy, cling to the side issues they do have control over, such as guns and their religion. Neither statement is false, he was speaking the truth. In order to come to a logical conclusion based on those facts, the conclusion has to be contained in the premises.

Unless there are preconceived assumptions, a personal relationship with the man, the ability to look into his heart or assumptions added, there is no way you can logically come to the conclusion that the man is not a uniter or that he is not a Christian anymore than you have enough information to come to the conclusion that I am not a Christian.

Christianity is one thing. Organized religion is another. Christianity would tell me that telling the truth about someone you love despite the fact that it offended you is called acknowledging the truth and forgiving that person. In my experience, Christians who become self-righteous and judgmental, especially when their minds aren’t open, frequently come to conclusions that aren’t logical.

Again, when you say things like . . . “You see Christ calls each of us to get closer to him in prayer in bad & good times..that's what is expected of us and if Obama doesn't know it now, I don't know when he will know it.” . . . you’re assuming a lot Patrick. You’re assuming he was being disrespectful of someone’s religion and that he doesn’t know those things. You have no way of knowing that – so your opinion is really just your judgment of another man that is not based in logic.

Based on the examples you provided the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the man tells the truth, and that his point was that we all do things we’re not proud of. That not speaking about those times doesn’t make it any less true, and that people in this country are being let down by the government that is supposed to represent them.

Peace.

Ha! In the meantime Patrick, I just received this email from my daughter . . .

Baptist Cowboy

A cowboy, who is visiting Wyoming from Texas , walks into a bar and orders three mugs of Bud. He sits in the back of the room, drinking a sip out of each one in turn. When he finishes them, he comes back to the bar and orders three more.

The bartender approaches and tells the cowboy, 'You know, a mug goes flat after I draw it. It would taste better if you bought one at a time.'

The cowboy replies, 'Well, you see, I have two brothers. One is in Arizona , the other is in Colorado . When we all left our home in Texas , we promised that we'd drink this way to remember the days when we drank together. So I'm drinking one beer for each of my brothers and one for myself.'

The bartender admits that this is a nice custom, and leaves it there.

The cowboy becomes a regular in the bar, and always drinks the same way. He orders three mugs and drinks them in turn.

One day, he comes in and only orders two mugs. All the regulars take notice and fall silent. When he comes back to the bar for the second round, the bartender says, 'I don't want to intrude on your grief, but I wanted to offer my condolences on your loss.'

The cowboy looks quite puzzled for a moment, then a light dawns in his eyes and he laughs.

'Oh, no, everybody's just fine, ' he explains, 'It's just that my wife and I joined the Baptist Church and I had to quit drinking.'

'Hasn't affected my brothers though.'

With all due respect Patrick, you're wrong on both counts. I'm in the middle of a deadline and at work so I'll get back to you shortly on that. Peace.

Chique,

I hope that you are trying to be funny because if you are not I suggest that you have no idea what logic is and you are definitely not a Christian either.

No logic there PEM, none at all.

Obama the uniter?
That's a laugh and a half...

Calling his own grandmother "A Typical White Woman"?

The same woman who raised him?

And how about Obama, who calls himself a Christian, saying that folks in Pennsy, when things get bad, cling to their guns and religion?

Man, this guy is NOT a Christian, no matter what he says he is...

You see Christ calls each of us to get closer to him in prayer in bad & good times..that's what is expected of us and if Obama doesn't know it now, I don't know when he will know it.

Now maybe, to some, these seem like small potatoes but they show the real person:(

TouchArt,

I agree that actions speak louder than words. So I linked to Obama's legislative record, which shows him working harder, smarter, and more successfully than Clinton, with more time as an elected representative under his belt.

Obama has clearly done so much more for this country. Clinton largely rode her husband's coattails, and hasn't been very effective on her own. She also voted for the Iraq war and the Flag Desecration Amendment, which alone makes her unfit to be President.

All the evidence says Obama is a uniter, and Clinton is a divider. Where's your evidence otherwise? Actual numbers from polls and primary results show him bringing more swing voters than Clinton, who has been extremely negative and Rovian in her campaign, and is commonly referred to as a polarizing figure. The executive director of MoveOn, Eli Pariser, recently said Mrs. Clinton has been divisive when “Democrats will soon need to unify to beat Senator McCain.”

It is really annoying when people present evidence to you, and you just ignore it and repeat the same nonsense, with no evidence to back you up.

Obama has done nothing for this country other than divide the democratic party in two during a campaign where we could have been united and actually won.

He talks unity, but has, in fact, divided the democratic party and the country.

Actions mean more than words.

The actual effect of Obama actions and words has been to divide, no matter what he says in his inspiring speeches.

"Whatever her official feminist credo, Hillary's public career has glaringly been a subset to her husband's success. Despite her reputation for brilliance, she failed the Washington, DC bar exam. Thus her migration to Little Rock was not simply a selfless drama for love; she was fleeing the capital where she had hoped to make her mark ..... In Little Rock, every role that Hillary played was obtained via her husband's influence - from her position at the Rose Law Firm to her seat on the board of Wal-Mart to her advocacy for public education reform. In a pattern that would continue after Bill became president, Hillary would draw attention by expressing public "concern" for a problem, without ever being able to organise a programme for reform ..... The argument, therefore, that Hillary's candidacy marks the zenith of modern feminism is specious. Feminism is not well served by her surrogates' constant tactic of attributing all opposition to her as a function of entrenched sexism. Well into her second term as a US Senator, Hillary lacks a single example of major legislative achievement. Her career has consisted of fundraising, meet-and-greets and speeches around the world expressing support for women's rights."

- Camille Paglia

Robert Reich, a former Clinton cabinet member and longtime friend of the former president, formally endorsed Obama's White House bid, saying that "my conscience won't let me be silent any longer."

"Although Hillary Clinton has offered solid and sensible policy proposals, Obama's strike me as even more so," Reich wrote on his blog.

He served as the Secretary of Labor from 1993-1997 and is currently a professor at Brandeis University.

"His plans for reforming Social Security and health care have a better chance of succeeding," Reich continued. "His approaches to the housing crisis and the failures of our financial markets are sounder than hers ... He has put forward the more enlightened foreign policy and the more thoughtful plan for controlling global warming."

Reich, whose relationship with the Clintons dates back to their law school days at Yale, has long been a critic of the New York senator's White House bid. Shortly before the Iowa caucuses in January, he wrote that voters would have a choice "between someone who talks the talk, and somebody who's walked the walk."

"I don't get it," he wrote then. "If there's anyone in the race whose history shows unique courage and character, it's Barack Obama. HRC's [Hillary Rodham Clinton's] campaign, by contrast, is singularly lacking in conviction about anything."

Reich also criticized Bill Clinton earlier in the year over the former president's sharp attacks on Obama in South Carolina.

"Bill Clinton's ill-tempered and ill-founded attacks on Barack Obama are doing no credit to the former president, his legacy, or his wife's campaign," he wrote in January. "Nor are they helping the Democratic Party."

...

Agreed stephenthomson . . .

We all have a right to our opinions so, I for one, will stop reacting to those who call us sexist, elitist, racist, unpatriotic, undemocratic or whatever . . . because they disagree with an opinion. That tactic shut us up way too long, way too long ago when the first of us spoke out against the war. I will not vote for Hillary because she exaggerates her experience and lies continuously. We've had enough liars in office for a lifetime to suit me. I detest her attack campaign and I detest that it leaves Obama with no choice but to go on the defensive when his real message is uplifting and a true promise of change. I would love to have a woman President - just not this particular woman and not liking her doesn't make me sexist.

Anyone who does not see what Obama has already done for our country, by lifting our spirits, engaging us intellectually, and elevating the conversation, is MISSING OUT.

P.S. Any feminist would know the demeaning, condescending Annie Oakley remark was sexist.

Hillary Clinton to Southern working class whites in 1995: "Screw 'em"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

How 'bout _dat_ TouchArt?

> Obama is not the messiah that he, his campaign, and his supporters want people to believe he is. He is in fact a nearly 50 year old man who, despite the privilege of a Harvard education and Harvard Law degree has done very little in his adult life for anyone besides himself and his own immediate family.

Well, I've looked extensively at his legislative record, and he's done far more than Clinton, and he's been better at getting building bi-partisan support, whereas Clinton's failures have often happened because she went it alone.

> Voters who think Obama will save the world, will be disappointed.

I don't think he'll save the world, but I think he's a far more intelligent, principled, selfless, and rational person than Hillary Clinton. And she keeps proving my point.

I think he'll rebuild bridges that we've burned with the international community, especially the Muslim world. I think he'll radically change the course we're on. And I think he'll have a much better grasp of the economy, and think in the long term and avoid lots of potential mistakes geared toward fixing things in the short term. That's because Clinton is more of a corporatist/populist hand-out-oriented panderer, and Obama has the rational disciplined core of a fiscal conservative. That's why so many Paulites love him, even though they disagree with many of his socialist leanings. He's a wonk, whereas Hillary thinks from her gut.

> People who think Obama is not an elitist and doesn't look down on people who disagree or are different from him are just not looking at what the man does and are refusing to hear what he is really saying.

If having better judgment and having a more organized and effective campaign makes him an elitist, so be it. I think Clinton is more elitist based on how her singular motivation is to attain power, and she wants to tell people what to do (e.g. health care mandates, outlawing flag burning, freezing foreclosures, etc.) Obama's belief in freedom and personal responsibility, as well as the supremacy of diplomacy, all resonates with me.

>>"her nasal whine of a voice to be shrill and off-putting). But over the course of this campaign, I have come to realize the monster she truly is."

>An excellent example of the venom, hatefulness and sexism of too many Obama supporters.

Yes, I have hate for a greedy power-hungry manipulative person like Hillary Clinton, the same way I have hate for George Bush for running our country into the ground and costing the lives of of tens or even hundreds of thousands of people. I have hate towards politicians who are evil.

But here I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about how I had traditionally _liked_ her in many ways, in _spite_ of her persona/voice/etc. There was nothing sexist about that, though I know that Clinton and many of her supporters often play the gender/victim card at the drop of a hat.

Let me repeat - I'm not against having a woman for president. I'm a vegan feminist living in San Francisco, dating an SFSU English Lit. grad who recently worked at an abortion clinic and champions woman's issues, and I'm in the middle of legally taking my mother's maiden name as a show of respect to the parent who did 90% of the work. I'd vote for Karen Kwiatkowski in a heartbeat. I'd vote for Samantha Power in the blink of an eye. I am against Hillary Clinton because she is an unscrupulous careerist.

> This writer also does the same foolish thing so many Obama supporters do - refuse to look at the seriousness of Obama's lies, accept his rationalizing away any of his wrong-headed and wrong-hearted statements and attitudes, and instead, invest Barack Obama with all their own highest ideals and aspirations.

What was foolish is for you to accuse Obama of lying, when you hadn't cited any examples, and when Hillary Clinton lies and deceives as readily as she talks. And again YOU make the mistake of calling Obama's recent statements "wrong-headed and wrong-hearted", when they are accurate, if perhaps poorly worded. I actually cited real life experience of what these blue-collar rural people go through.

> When Obama lies about passing a Senate bill that required the nuclear energy industry to report and take care of radioactive leaks, real people are hurt, children get pediatric brain tumors, cancer increases in communities and people die. Put that against the way Hillary exaggerated about what was clearly a dangerous experience and something that was courageous for her to do.

Obama has lied about how he voted on a bill, even though that can be checked? Please. Do show us some evidence of that.

And how about that war vote by Hillary Clinton? How about that Flag Desecration Amendment vote?

> Interesting how it is always okay to make a joke at Hillary Clinton's expense, but never at Obama's.

If Hillary Clinton learns how to be funny, more power to her.

> When Obama belittled Hillary Clinton and condescendingly said, "Who does she think she is, Annie Oakley," it was a cheap shot for a laugh, but one that revealed his deep seated sexism and his willingness to stoop to any level to play into America's sexism to insult her.

I know that you want to believe this is about gender, but it's just not. You're reading too far into it. You might recall those pictures of John Kerry dressed up in duck-hunting apparel years ago, trying to sell this macho image of himself. I couldn't help but laugh at it, even though I vastly preferred him to Bush. Clinton has been trying to appeal to these blue-collar people in PA by talking about hunting and chugging beer, and frankly it's comical. It's like the time she spoke to a southern black crowd with a drawl. And I think Obama has every reason to use humor as a way of talking about.

> To many women, the Annie Oakley insult is profoundly sexist, and was expressly intended to stir up sexist emotions in voters.

Can you tell me what is sexist about it? Would it have been less sexist if he had compared her to Wild Bill or Wyatt Earp?

Nearly as many people don't like Barack Obama, the person.

Difference is, the majority of Hillary Clinton supporters don't deify her, nor hurl personal attacks, insults, and profanities at her opponent and his supporters. The same can not be said for Obama supporters. That shows their candidate inspires lots of hate and vitriole and taps into biterness and anger that is far from the hope he promised.

I don't think Obama is any more 'elitist' than Hillary, but I'm so tired of the entire election getting dragged down to these arguments. Can't Hillary just stick to the issues and see which candidate wins the popular vote? Oh wait... that's right...

And I don't think being elitist is the worst thing in the world anyways. To steal a point from John Stewart, if you don't think you one of the elite in this country, what the &$%* are you doing running for President? I think we've had enough joe-shmoe your average Texan for one lifetime. You can call us sexist until your face turns blue (is that sexist because I am insulting a woman?) but it doesn't change the fact that people do not like Hillary Clinton, the person.

"The one that went from a nice, affable candidate to a mean, insulting and vindictive" describes Barack Obama to a tee.

The incessant personal attacks, insults and foul language from Obama supporters speak for themselves.

I felt that originally both the Hillary and Obama camps were mutually supportive of each other ---- right up until Hillary started getting personal and insulting.

She started it!

I know, I know. Sounds childish. But from my perspective of things I personally turned against Hillary when she turned on me. I actually liked her after watching a few debates. I though, "I may not like her abrasive personality, but she makes some good points in the debates. She'd be an acceptable President. Certainly better than McCain!"

And then when she started falling in the polls and it became quite clear to the Clinton Political Machine that she was not going to be the annointed one -- she got nasty. The real Hillary came out. The one that went from a nice, affable candidate to a mean, insulting and vindictive, uh, person. Is asshole gender neutral? Let's just say asshole so we can't be accused of sexism.

I still vividly remember Bill Clinton ripping on Obama dismissing his inspirational life story as "nothing but a fairy tale!"

Then Hillary started mocking Obama by saying (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Hope is nice, but you need to be a realist. Obama thinks the clouds will open up, choirs of angels will sing, a light will shine down and we'll all hold hands and sing!" Then she egged the crowd on rolling her eyes at how naive poor misguided Obama was. Not a "policy" critique -- just an attack on the man who describes himself as a hope-monger. When she was UP in the polls she debated the small differences in their healthcare plans. When she was DOWN in the polls she stopped mentioning policy differences and focused on Obama as a person, specifically how he was too "inexperienced" to be President and was "fooling" his supporters with loafty rhetoric.

So.....I guess that not only means Obama is an empty-headed moron but also that people (like myself) who support him are equally moronic and naive? Thanks Hillary! Way to unite the party!

Hillary-supporters are trying to make the claim that it's been equal on both sides -- but in my experience it was the Hillary people that FIRST started claiming they'd rather vote for McCain than Obama -- arguing that Obama was such an empty-headed naive idiot that putting him in the White House would get us all killed!

Hillary herself publically echoed that sentiment by remarking, "Both John McCain and I have considerable foreign policy experience. Obama has a speech he made years ago."

Nice Hillary. Again we'll stick with the gender neutral phrasing of "asshole-ish" to describe Hillary's remarks that even her Republican opponent would make a better President than Obama.

How exactly are Democratic, Independent and Republican-leaning Obama supporters supposed to react to Hillary when she keeps arguing that Obama is too "stupid" or "naive" to be President? Hillary is implying that WE'RE too stupid to see how incompetent Obama is because we've all be "dazzled" by his oratory.

And we're NOT supposed to find that personally insulting?

And we're supposed to believe that Hillary would be able to unite voters after this current scorched earth campaign in a General Election?

touchart, you are out of touch.
Hillary is one of the good old boys in a pantsuit.

And it's amazing how the posts you have against Obama seem to say the same regurgitated stuff.

Blah blah blah Harvard, and blah blah blah elitist. You know that blah blah blah sexist, but Hillary is blah blah blah unlike Obama blah blah Annie Oakley blah blah.

Which is rather reminiscent of the Clinton campaign. Same rhetoric, same non-plan, same favor to big business, and the same old bullshit for four more years.

ps brokenladder. if i weren't an elitist i'd offer to hug you.

Obama is elitist.

Also, I'd prefer to not be called sexist for disliking Hillary Clinton. I'm an avid supporter of equal rights and social justice for woman across the world. I just don't want Hillary Clinton running my country, and YES she is talking like she is Annie Oakley with her "my father took me out back and we shot a duck". That is sexist? I didn't realize being Annie Oakley was a demeaning thing...

I wanted to like Hillary Clinton when this election started and I think a lot of Obama supporters weren't out to hate her. She has made some really disappointing choices though over the course of this election. I'm very disappointed with how she has handled her campaign and treated the American people.

I mean, calling Obama elitist? You've got to be KIDDING me. Isn't she the one trying to overturn the will of the people? There isn't anything more elitist than that.

"her nasal whine of a voice to be shrill and off-putting). But over the course of this campaign, I have come to realize the monster she truly is."

An excellent example of the venom, hatefulness and sexism of too many Obama supporters.

This writer also does the same foolish thing so many Obama supporters do - refuse to look at the seriousness of Obama's lies, accept his rationalizing away any of his wrong-headed and wrong-hearted statements and attitudes, and instead, invest Barack Obama with all their own highest ideals and aspirations.

When Obama lies about passing a Senate bill that required the nuclear energy industry to report and take care of radioactive leaks, real people are hurt, children get pediatric brain tumors, cancer increases in communities and people die. Put that against the way Hillary exaggerated about what was clearly a dangerous experience and something that was courageous for her to do.

Interesting how it is always okay to make a joke at Hillary Clinton's expense, but never at Obama's.
When Obama belittled Hillary Clinton and condescendingly said, "Who does she think she is, Annie Oakley," it was a cheap shot for a laugh, but one that revealed his deep seated sexism and his willingness to stoop to any level to play into America's sexism to insult her.
To many women, the Annie Oakley insult is profoundly sexist, and was expressly intended to stir up sexist emotions in voters.
What would happen if Hillary Clinton said, "Who does Obama think he is? Step n' Fetch It, or Amos and Andy?" Maybe someone should tell Obama and his supporters that his sexiest remarks, body language and attitudes are as disgusting as the racism we fight against with righteous indignation.
Hillary Clinton is not at all the "monster" Obama supporters have created out of their own spitefulness and resentment. None of the haters know the woman. They just keep spouting vitriole and think that by discounting Hillary Clinton's real actions and proven commitment to America and public service, they can make people believe in the ugly false caricature they have created. But nearly 50% of democratic primary voters want Hillary Clinton to be the nominee and a large percentage of Republican woman will vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election.
Obama is not the messiah that he, his campaign, and his supporters want people to believe he is. He is in fact a nearly 50 year old man who, despite the privilege of a Harvard education and Harvard Law degree has done very little in his adult life for anyone besides himself and his own immediate family.
Voters who think Obama will save the world, will be disappointed. People who think Obama is not an elitist and doesn't look down on people who disagree or are different from him are just not looking at what the man does and are refusing to hear what he is really saying.

TouchArt,

I'm from an impoverished family in rural Kansas, and I worked my way up to a near-six-figure income with a job in downtown San Francisco. I've seen many faces of America, and Obama's comments do not offend me. And suggestions that they should are demonstrative of a willful ignorance of his clear intent.

What he said is undeniably matter-of-fact. When people like those in my family are struggling to get by, and losing their homes, and when neither party seems to do much to help, they do in fact turn to the feeling of solidarity and security that is offered to them by fundamentalist religion (crackpot stuff like creationism, and homophobia), racism (which gives them a scapegoat), alcoholism, and hunting.

You may balk at this as stereotyping, but sometimes the stereotypes are just a real fact of life. And there's nothing that people like David Atwater and Karl Rove have better exploited than the kind of base emotions of bigotry, nationalism, fundamentalism, and gun-love that come with financial hardship. And in this election cycle, Hillary Clinton has followed the Karl Rove playbook masterfully. Obama is trying to remind people that we can actually vote on the basis of real and impacting (e.g. economic) issues again, not just these pointless litmus tests. When you actually approach what he said in a rational academic way, there's nothing offensive about it at all. (Hint: try to think of every time you've heard some rational-sounding person say something to the effect of that the best cure for Islamic extremism is prosperity and advanced education.)

Now Clinton has been posing like some kind of beer-chugging duck-hunting blue collar type recently, and I think Obama's Annie Oakley comment was a fair, not overly vicious, and pretty funny response to that. You may not feel compelled by his stand-up routine, but you should be compelled by his vastly better record on honesty. Clinton dished out the lie about arriving in Tuzla the day before the border was re-opened, even though she arrived the day after -- even after reporters pointed this out to her. She actually insisted they were wrong, despite film footage and news references from the time. She told a story of sniper fire and a corkscrew landing that the pilot says didn't happen -- and then tried to explain it as the result of a mental lapse and/or sleep deprivation, even though she told the story on at least three separate occasions, both morning and night.

Here's a little rundown of her campaign strategy thus far, for people like you who can so easily forget what a con-artist she is:

* planted questions in the crowd
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/politics/main3496586.shtml

* dug into Barack Obama's secret Kindergarten files.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4479

* distorted Obama's abortion record
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080105/clinton-obama-abortion/

* broke down in apparent fake/uncharacteristic tears in New Hampshire
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/09/kristol-on-clinton-its_n_80599.html

* uses typical Rovian fear-mongering
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/hillarys-politics-of-fea_b_81865.html

I could go on and on....
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/26/104555/955/7/484087

In any case, when you cite Obama's "lies", it's hard to take you seriously in light of her exponentially more flagrant offenses.

Hillary is an especially desperate and conniving career politician who wants power and a big fat legacy to leave behind her.

While I'm a libertarian (a huge Ron Paul supporter), I overlooked a lot of bad things that happened during the Clinton years, because I really believe William Clinton was an exceptionally competent and extremely intelligent person. Compared to the typical crooked hacks who preceded his administration, he was an angel, whose legacy is all the more brilliant betwixt the Bush drones who preceded and succeeded him.

Hillary too has always struck me as a competent and intelligent person, despite my numerous policy disagreements with her (and the fact that I find her demeanor and her nasal whine of a voice to be shrill and off-putting). But over the course of this campaign, I have come to realize the monster she truly is. And in light of that, I look back at the pre-blog era during which she rose to power, with the feeling that I've been had. As far as I can tell, she's always had this empty ambition coarsing through her veins, and has plotted her every move throughout her adult life with the singular aim of achieving the Oval Office. If she makes it, god help us all.

This woman voted for the Flag Desecration Amendment. This woman would put our cherished freedom of speech on the line for political capital (she's trying to protect poor flags). This woman would say anything she had to in order to get elected. She's a wind-up toy. She's a shell of human being.

If anyone ever thinks her detractors are being too vitriolic or crude, I suggest he is in dire need of a civics lesson.

I don't want this woman anywhere near the Red Phone at 3 a.m.

well apparently this is what happens with communicaction via the internet...
honestly I couldn't believe it.
i misunderstood
hugs, and kisses ;) crob

Jade! Wha....?

I was agreeing with you. You said you didn't like her and I said, yeah, that's a pretty big club! One I belong to as well.

((((hugs)))))

no references..this reads like a hype for a herbal remedie. heresay testamonials from who? not supporting either candidate but this piece is not worth the time. no support or documented facts. total unjournalistic crap. educate us...don't insult us with your attempt to muddy the cloudy water.

Your ability to label me in record time based on a single three letter word is astounding.

Don't act stupid crob. Do not disappoint me. I never said I don't care about Hillary, (I care about people in general, and i'm specially interested in our candidates for the presidency) but what I do know about her inspires that response in me...

ugh! is a form of expression...

and I know you respect everyone's freedom of speech

still luv ya n do my best 2 keep up with ur everypost

Aren't you all tired of rehashing the same discredited attacks over and over in the same snide not really funny ways?

Check out some facts on both HIllary Clinton and Barack Obama at www.ontheissues.org

Hillary Clinton came from a modest family and married a man who was raised by a single mother like Barack Obama keeps repeating about himself.

Elitism is an attitude that you can find in every class, income bracket, race and ethnicity. It doesn't matter where you come from, it's how you look at other people who are different from you. Many of Barack Obama's statements and his tone make people from working class backgrounds cringe. This latest gaffe was not the first time his words have been judgmental and condescending.

Or was it her time at Yale and Wellesley that she learned to be a down to earth regular blue collar american.

Talk about elitist.

Touch Art: do you mean her failed actions, the ones that she proposed achieved and later recanted, or the well thought out and meticulous decision making ability that she showed when she voted for the Iraq war?

Yeah, much better.....

All the venom above proves the point.

None of you who despise Hillary Clinton know her personally.

In fact, the majority of people who do know Hillary Clinton or who have at least met her, actually like her and never describe her the way the media or the passionate haters do.

Given the facts, and the actions and words of both candidates, the intensity of the Obama supporters' irritation with Hillary Clinton is unwarranted and so is their unquestioning devotion to Obama no matter what he says, who he associates with and whatever lies he tells that endanger Americans.

Where is the outrage when Obama belittles Hillary Clinton and says, "Who does she think she is, Annie Oakley?"
She responds to his insults of average Americans, and she gets attacked.

Everytime Obama talks about Hillary Clinton he assumes a condescending attitude and snidely belittles her. Obama is condescending in general. While a polished orator, his tone is preachy and too much like a know it all professor who thinks he understands and has the right to characterize everybody else's behavior and motivations. Obama is elitist, he talks like a Harvard educated attorney because he is. He spent less than 3 years working in South Chicago in the 1980s, but he acts like he's devoted his life to the poor.

I personally have never met Hillary Clinton, but I have researched her actions and Barack Obama's actions and it is clear Hillary Clinton would be a better president.

"I would love to see a woman elected president, just not this woman." F*ck yes seeker.

we have only gotten as negative as her bullsh*t self destructive McCain-winning attack ads. f*ck hillary and this sympathy wagon. if you wanna run the free world, you're gonna have to take some hits.

'boo hoo, be nice to hillary." Bullsh*t, pick a better female candidate. Or, how about this, and I know it's tough for these oppressed women of america who have it so bad they may as well be second class citizens, stop voting gender and vote issues and character. This blind following sh*t is ridiculous. Sheep: feminist sheep.

I'll still vote for her if I have too.

" Just because someone really dislikes Hillary personally ......shouldn't be misconstrued to mean we dislike her because of her gender.

Exactly.!

I would love to see a woman elected president, just not this woman.

its about WHY people dont care for Hilary. Shes a liar. I dont think she really is in it for solving the problems our nation faces. Obama has done much but I think his principles are in the right place and he is trying to do stuff. I miss John Edwards.

Congratulations Jade, you're now a part of the fastest growing club in the world.

People who (ugh) just don't care for Hillary.

I don't like her at all!! and I'm a girl

It's not sexism, it's just her!! ugh!

I do believe this is vice versa, so I think they will equal each other out. Still, it is kinda tough to have a decent convo with all of the new political fanpeople floating about...

Ya, it's not her being a woman - it's her being a lying and manipulative b*tch!

I just think comparing Bill and Hillary’s over-the-top campaign style to professional wrestlers is hilarious (and apt!)

I keep envisioning Obama The Cerebral Assassin in a match with McCain The Living Dead.

“Obama has The Living Dead in a submission chokehold. McCain can’t find any leverage! It’s only a matter of time before even the supernatural stamina of the Undead succumbs to this submission move and Obama will be the WWE Champion. Wait! Slick Willy is running down the ramp and heading towards the ring! What’s Hillary’s manager doing here?!? Slick Willy is climbing in the ring behind Obama….he’s raising his cane and….oh mercy! Slick Willy has caned Obama in the knee! Obama has released his chokehold on the Undead and is clutching his knee, screaming in agony. The Undead is passed out cold but Slick Willy is dragging the unconscious McCain on top of Obama for the pin. One…two..three! It’s over! Obama has lost the match thanks to the intervention of the Hampton Hellcat’s manager Slick Willy! What in the world is going on here?”

Hillary appears on the scene with microphone in hand:

“Obama! Hear me, Obama! I told you that it was my destiny to be the undisputed Champion of the WWE. I told you I would do whatever it takes! I told you that I would destroy all who were foolish enough to stand in my way! If aligning myself with McCain the Undead is what it takes to destroy you….then that’s what I will do. We both have enough foreign policy experience to be Commander in Chief. All you’ve got is a single speech denouncing the Iraq War! You disgust me! And so do all you’re pathetic little Obama-maniacs!”

The audience erupts into a chorus of boos. Someone dumps a soda over her head.

“Oh! So you guys are all sexist woman-haters, huh? Well screw you all! C’mon Bill. We’ll see you at WrestleMania, Obama!”

-----

Yeah, I don’t think people dislike Hillary because she’s a woman. Might have a little more to do with her (ahem) “personality” than anything else.

If ya act like a heel people are gonna boo.

VoyagerFilms I completely agree with you. Hilary is lying a lot, as evident in Crob's post about the Obama and Pennsylvania commoners, just to please everyone. As far as the woman thing, People who hate her for it as well as though who vote for her for being it, are just wrong. There is more to politics than sex.

Maybe guys don't like her because some us can see she talks out of both sides of her mouth! As in lying. As in playing / manipulating us. We're talking about a candidate for President here, not the prom Queen. My mom doesn't play emotional games on me, she doesn't lie to me so I personally won't tolerate Hillbillary pulling on me as my President.

I'd like a female President - but not one who wears pants and straps on a set of her husbands balls.

A woman President should be a woman who is happy and content as a woman - who isn't also trying to be "super man-woman".

You know, I can't get pregnant and have a baby. As much as I love (and embrace) the opposite sex, I don't want to be a woman.

Shockingly I agree but it's not just Obama supporters. Mass droves of Republican males hate her with the fire of 1,000 flames from hell. I met a young Republican the other day that stated if " Hill wins im voting for McCain, but if Barack gets the nomination I might not vote for A Republican this time."

Yes, I read this article too.

I did disagree with it though.

We must remember that Hillary is unique in the sense that she carries with her a LOT of history and personal baggage. In other words, Hillary has pissed a lot of people off (Republicans and Democrats) over the years. Now add to that the offense she's caused many people (even among her own supporters) with her old-school scorched earth win-at-all-costs campaign style.

Personally I doubt we'd be seeing this level of vitriol being directed at any other female Presidential candidate. Not even a Republican one!

For example: if Ann Coulter campaigned in the exact same manner as Hillary I doubt there would be much of an outcry. She's Ann. She a Republican. That's just how she is and no one would be surprised.

But Hillary's over-the-top (in my personal opinion) campaign style, the willingness of both her and our beloved Bill to attack, attack, attack feels like a betrayal. And then she mocked those of us who do support Obama as naive and foolish? You just can't help but take that personally.

And we need to watch out for extrapolating too much. I really, really dislike George W. Bush. Does that mean I hate men? That I hate all Texans? No. Just because someone really dislikes Hillary personally -- when she herself has made this campaign about personality over policy -- shouldn't be misconstrued to mean we dislike her because of her gender.

This unqiue and admittedly passionate dislike for Hillary (I feel) stems more from just her personality than her gender. She is coming across more and more like a bad WWE villian than an Presidential candidate.

"I'm gonna destroy Obama at WrestleMania! Obama made the worst mistake of his life when he decided to challenge me for the Championship belt! I am the WWE! I'm not just gonna win the match at WrestleMania....I'm gonna end Obama's career! Get the ambulance ready because there....will....be...blood!"

And then when people told her to cool it because we didn't care for that kind of tone coming from a Dem candidate -- both she and Bill mocked us again!

"If you can't take the heat than stay outta the ring! I'm gonna be your hero whether you like it or not! You can hate me all you want for doing whatever it take to win....using steel chairs, getting help from outside the ring, cheap shots....but I'm nuthing compared to the Republicans. Grrrrr!"

Um, okay Hillary. Calm down.

As for me, I can definitely see why people just don't like Sen. Clinton or her ring manager Billy Clinton and I don't think gender really is at the root cause.

I find fanaticism on either side to be frustrating. Obama and Clinton essentially have the same proposed policy statement.