Obama accuses Rush Limbaugh and Lou Dobbs for spreading hate against immigrants

lxluigixl brought up an interesting point about the non-stereotypical "illegal" immigrants that make up a portion of the immigrant population. I have a relative that was born in Canada and never got American citizenship. He pays taxes, has a SSN, and driver's license, and works a blue-collar job in a specialized field.

He's afraid to go through the process of getting citizenship because he was told by an immigration lawyer that to claim yourself as an illegal equated with instant deportation.

I think the system needs some serious rewriting so that immigrants willing to adopt our tax system, etc. are able to apply for legal citizenship status without fear or hate. Once the system is clearly written, then I wouldn't be surprised to see a great deal of illegal immigrants seek to become law-abiding, tax-paying citizens of the U.S. Those who don't then are the "illegal threat" and are more clearly identified as people who want to take advantage of the American system.

NewsGoddess nailed it. Obama must remain fearlessly honest. I'll add that, unlike the other main candidates, he must not wait one or two weeks for his advisors to frame the perfect response to accusations made against him.
I'm so sick of that.

Immigration. While everyone here can go home at night and close the door to their house, they feel immigration doesn't affect them. If you had to allow some of these immigrants into your house for the night, then maybe you'd get the idea. Theres way too many people coming!! Immigration is bulldozing our world, in North America and here in Europe.
Ive never heard Dobbs say Brown people, Black people or Green people are the problem, its too many people. Have any of you folks had a fish aquarium? What happens when you put too many of them in the area they have to share? Answer is: they become territorial and aggressive, and eat each other. The human equivalent of this is England. You cant get any privacy there, you cant have peace, you cant enjoy the day.
What i want to say, is why cant these immigrants make their own world as we have, instead of coming and taking a piece of our pie?? When will the people wake up to the fact that immigration has/is destroying what we once had??

The biggest problem America has ever had with illegal immigrants is the Puritan Immigration. It led to the largest genocide in American History and nearly wiped out the indians.

But since they were the ancestors of people like Lou Dobbs, people like him aren't offended by that. In fact, I'm sure that he would be offended that I even suggest this as fact.

Where is your outrage for that moment in history? Buried in the past? What about illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe, should they be deported too?

Immigration to America isn't about stealing jobs from Americans. It's about people finding an oppertunity for a better life. Stop projecting blame on these hard-working individuals for the economy, and start pointing fingers at the corporations who outsource American jobs.

Hmmm, so Obama is actually QUOTED in this article accusing Dobbs and Limbaugh of being responsible for increased crime against hispanics.

"A certain segment has basically been feeding a kind of xenophobia. There's a reason why hate crimes against Hispanic people doubled last year," Obama said. "If you have people like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ginning things up, it's not surprising that would happen."

Not crimes against illegal immigrants, but crimes against Hispanics. My guess? Obama is simply playing politics. His game is to hopefully win over Hispanic voters by appearing to be their heroe as he stands up to the obviously racist Dobbs and Limbaugh, the source of all Hispanic's woes. (yep, that racist finger pointing has been working well thus far, what with the rich white folk so scared that they might be called racist if they DON'T vote for Obama) UNFORTUNATELY, Obama has absolutely no plan to do anyting about it. His only motivation is to get votes. Just like GWB, the game is all about winning. And it looks like there are enough stupid people to swallow his BS. What a friggin' joke.

" it puts the lotion in the basket "

Dobbs is a xenophobe and hypocrite and Rush is just a clown. The truly scary part is the idiots that listen to either of them and believe half or all of what they say.

It takes some real cojones to take on two media moguls like that...hats off to Obama for standing up for what he believes in.

And an interesting aside....you don't piss those guys off if you're worried about losing a presidential election. If he does indeed get into the White House I hope he continues this kind of fearless honesty.

Voyager, So you say the real issue is volume. That's fine. I'm not arguing for increasing quotas, building walls, preventing them from citizenship, etc. I made two points.

1. That ethics is a part, maybe a tiny part, but a part of the immigration debate. Think of political refugees. I am not saying I think we should let people in because they are suffering, all i am saying is that it already is one of the many issues involved with immigration.

2. The United States citizens have a legally shakier claim to this land than the citizens of most of the countries around the world. In essence we stole this land. I know this is a somewhat silly/stupid argument but I am just pointing out that technically we are "illegally" on this land not because we stole and slaughtered but because we went against treaties. There is nothing illegal about stealing and killing people with no rights.

If you are really dying for someone to "frame" this debate for you, and it appears you are, here is how I would do it. How many legal immigrants are allowed around the world from different countries? Do we want immigration for cheap labor, intellectual acumen or both? How much cheap labor do our businesses want? How does the general public feel about immigration? Is it right for businesses to have "illegal" workers whom they pay less and provide no benefits to?

By including ethics in the debate it is not confusing it, it is just making it more complicated, which is good. There are many issues, just because I mention one, doesn't mean I am not aware of others.

So to bring this argument back to something more substantive, you seem educated, how would you deal with potential immigrants from around the world. And also, do you believe people should be allowed citizenship, as some currently are, because of humanitarian/poltical crises?

Nope, weak argument - shbhanda.

Comparing a boat load of Jews to tens of millions of illegals is ridiculous. Again, attempting to "frame" and confuse the issue rather than let it speak for itself, and attempting to sway people's emotion with lies.

shbhanda - the fact is, the Bush admin. is not allowing them in because someone somewhere in the world is starving or suffering in any other way. Cut the kraghb.

And let me make one thing clear, I killed no American Indians.

Take it all down to a personal level - I know some homeless people, let's see if you are FULL OF IT. Where do you live, I'm going to bring some starving Americans to your home. You'll fix them dinner, give up your bed and wash their clothes for them won't you? Because you don't want EVERYONE to know you are a full of it, now do you?

As far as the Busheney gang, enabler mcVain, have they opened up their homes and vast properties? Are they sharing their wealth with these poor starving illegals? Or are they sharing YOUR and my wealth wealth with them for personal profit?

People like you have got it all so mixed up you don't even know what the real issue is.

The suffering of others is in an issue regarding illegal immigration. Think of the boatloads of Jews that every country turned away during WWII. While those countries had no "obligation" to take on the refugees, it would have been a testament to our better nature (unsubstantiated in the communal setting) if they would have.

I personally think that the citizens of this country, moreso than any other, have not much of a natural right to the land. We cheated and stole it away from its rightful inhabitants. Nearly every other country in the world has people that have lived on the same land for 1000+ years. Just because it happened 200 years ago doesn't mean we didn't break the law doing it.

In fact, we are a nation of "illegal" immigrants.

The truth be known, the real issue is the volume of immigrants (it's way more than the Bush admin. admits to) - not that we have immigrants.

The Ripusoffican's won't admit the real numbers of illegals in this country, and the Democrats are embarrassed to say.

Lou Dobbs is right and he is not racist. I am disappointed in you people for being so quick to swallow what is dished out to you by corporate media.

Trying to change the "framing" of the debate aye lxluigxi?

Let's not play the sympathy card. People are starving in the United States - let's go bomb Iraq, how about Iran. If we lay claim to human suffering we can justify anything - is that right lxluigixi?

Try this one on for size - we might be starving in the United States - so let's go exploit 3rd world countries - and kill their citizens if they don't like it. How about that lxluigixi?

With regard to this debate, to claim (unsubstantiated) suffering as a means to justify the violation of rights of others (and countries) is akin to saying rape is justifiable if the perpetrator hasn't had sex for a long time.

People starving in other countries as a result of corrupt governments is a completely separate issue. You could not argue that the United States should transport or allow ALL people suffering throughout the world to the United States. Would this be the best remedy? The best way to help those people?

Surely , there must be a more intelligent way to approach the issue, but it is a separate issue.

I know people who have come here illegally and sure pay taxes. I don't know why people say they don't when anybody without a SS# can get a ITIN or IRS number and pay their taxes.

And it's easy to say to come here the "legal way" but guess what, most of those people don't have the money to do the paper work or their country won't give them visas or have to wait years on the wait list, and why would they do that when they are seeing their children starving and suffering?

I assure you, we've let more illegals into this country in the last 7+ years than all that have come here collectively in the history of the United States before.

The sheer volume is THE issue, not that we have immigration, but the VOLUME!

All societies cycle, it's a natural part of evolution. What has happened here in the US is that due to misplaced emphasis on possessions, status and wealth, the birthrate of citizens has declined to the point that without immigration, our population would be shrinking.

This is normal and a natural byproduct which eventually turns around and we become a more enlightened people with new, better values.

The trouble is that those greedy people who have wrangled control of our government don't want to learn from life's natural cycles, but would rather have more MONEY instead. So, to keep the American economic engine running so they can fill their pockets, mattresses and bank accounts, they realized letting in illegals is a great way to "attempt" to circumvent the nature process.

Guess what????????????????????????????????

You've heard the saying (I'll paraphrase) "the best laid plans of mice and men, oft go astray"? They, the greedy fools who believe they can circumvent the inevitable cycles of life, nature and the universe are DOOMED to failure, but it's the rest of us who have tolerated it, enabled it and who fought it who will have to live with the consequences of their greedy ignorance as they will be long gone dead and rotting in the ground as this is only the feeble toiling of old men - who have money, but not two cents worth of wisdom - hence the saying (I'll paraphrase) "What benefit will it be to you if you gain the whole world but lose yourself?"

It's odd how the actual amount of 'legal' immigrants let in from Mexico and other countries is never a main issue in the illegal immigration debate.

The Statue of Liberty has become quite hypocritical, we should send it to Mexico.

I heard Lou Dobbs before he became a populist. He was just another member of the MSM. Now Dobbs is complaining about this administration waging war on the middle class. Now he is complaining about aliens taking jobs from middle class Americans. Where the heck was Dobbs when the Oligarch attacks the populist candidates that run for president?

He wasn't complaining about the destructive effects of voo doo economics on the middle class when the Oligarch was running for president in 2004. He was insinuating there must be something suspicious about John Kerry's military record.

It seems to me that Dobbs is the mouth piece that helps the Oligarch drive a wedge between the voters in this country by complaining about the war on the middle class and the aliens stealing jobs from middle class Americans.

I will say, that the he IS talking about the subjects that need to be talked about. It just seems suspiciously late in the game. It seems like he was a cheerleader for the neo-con's until Katrina. But then a lot of people stopped being a cheerleader for the neo-con's after Katrina.

Oh.......I forgot. Flush Rush!

Bull shit, Dobbs is the only mainstram news anchor who talks about the N.A.U. and N.A.F.T.A. Fuck, Obama can go take away small arms and suck Zbigniew Brzezinski's globalist dick!!! Go flip flop about N.A.F.T.A. again you corrupt internationalist piece of shit.

The title of this post is misleading and divisive. Currenton - who posted this and provided the title appears to be "ginning things up" by misstating or restating what Obama meant.

Currenton - whether through ignorance or design wrote a title which misleads people. Geraldo Rivera - who is attempting to be a plausible human rather than a sensationalist by marrying a (not very bright attention seeking) judge - used exactly these tactics - at the expense of all people - to grab attention and promote himself some years ago.

Look closely people, Obama did not say Lou Dobbs was spreading HATE, but Currenton who provided this misleading title to this thread could be said to be spreading HATE.

Be careful people. We have destroyers in our midst.

Lou Dobbs speaks up for Americans.

The Huffington Post this post is supposedly drawn from only provides a very short article about Obama's comment, only quotes a very small amount of what Obama said, and by omission appears to be (intentionally) taking various things Obama said out of context to create new meaning.

I think a large issue as well with what Limbaugh and Dobbs are doing includes the entire racist premise that the term "illegal aliens" or even "immigrant" rests upon in this country today. When people talk about those "illegal immigrants" or whatever, the automatic picture that is seen in our heads is of a Latino/a- not of a European/white person. That, I think, is what Obama means when he said that the hate crimes towards Hispanics have skyrocketed in the past few years. The racism that is inherent in all of this angry immigration talk coming from the right spurs more hate, because many assume that all Hispanics or all minorities are all immigrants. Also, the antagonism and violence that has erupted between the Hispanic and black communities is a result of this racist undertone. I went to a talk by Bay Buchanan (a conservative voice of anti-immigration. she's been very vocal in her opinions and influential) and the first thing she talked about was how the Hispanics are taking the blacks' jobs and how the black community should fight for their construction, plumbing, blue collar jobs... but then we all stood up and asked her WHY the black community has been pinned as owners of the "blue collar" and "construction" jobs in the first place.. and also why it is necessary for her to incite inter-racial conflict. THAT is the problem with all of this immigration talk. It involves an automatic assumption that all immigrants are Hispanic or all Hispanics in America are illegal immigrants. It rests on an idea that leads to UNFOUNDED assumptions that lead to violence towards an innocent community. That is what Obama is talking about, and he's completely right.

And also, if everyone is so angry about the outsourcing of American companies and jobs and money to Mexico.. then look to our President for blame. Bush allowed all of these companies to leave and even encouraged it. The past few years has seen the highest amount of companies outsourcing, and why? Because Bush has made it easier for all of these companies to leave. So thank Bush for your friends and loved ones losing their jobs. I'm from a poor area in Ohio where everyone used to work for General Motors or Packard Electric.. and both of those companies downsized significantly within the past 8 years because of the Bush administration.

And how far is it really to talk about what is "LEGAL" and what is not, when we don't even follow our own laws in government spending for the Iraq war or our unlawful taking of Hawaii (Hawaii isn't even a legal state, but we call it so due to fear of the Japanese during WWII. Look it up, the Hawaiian islands are not even ours, but we tax them as a state and take their money.. how lawful is that?)

They are going to talk about what their listeners want to hear. Despite the fact that they do clarify that they only have an issue with illegal immigrants, many will immediately think about immigrants from Mexico, and any of the negative issues that they possibly bring to America.

My other issue with Lou Dobbs (besides his stand on immigration) is that he's soooooo self-aggrandizing about it -- "look and listen to me, me, meeeeeeeee!!"

I stopped watching CNN and MSNBC -- I couldn't tell the difference between their news and their commentary -- and then it all started sounding like commentary, and I got tired of them trying to push my fear buttons.

That's one think I like about current.com -- separation -- there are the news reports, and then the commentaries.

Today it is immigrants.

Before that it was Muslims.

Before that it was gays.

Before that it was...

Get the picture? Every election cycle the right picks on one group or another that their base hates. They pick up on that hatred and push it and push it and make it an election issue. They pander to that hatred and that makes them hatemongers, even if there is some truth to their arguments.

Today the shred of truth in their argument is "Hey, they are illegal!" But if you look closely at their message they imply that all immigrants are illegal and all people of color are immigrants. So their whole argument boils down to "Watch out for those brown people! We'll save you from them!"

Meanwhile the right is picking every pocket in the land with their policies.

i dont agree with that last comment. both of them are to blame. both the illegals and the people that hire them. but our government is to blame as well.

Don't blame the people, blame the companies that hire them.

thats what im talkin about, taxes. you know that illegal labor has kept minumum wage at a standstill for ten years in texas. theses illegals work for less because they dont pay taxes, which drives wages down. and theyre not just draining our economy by not paing taxes. they come here and have children which makes that child an american citizen and they start geting welfare and medicaid.

You can discuss this issue until eternity, but it always comes down to one thing. Taxes. If illegals paid income tax like the rest of us, I wouldn't mind them being here. When my grandparents came to Ellis Island as immigrants, they got jobs and paid taxes. They were very poor, too, but worked hard and made something of themselves. Why Illegals feel that they have a right to be here without contributing like the rest of us is just amazing. It's just plain wrong, too.

well I dont know much about what they said on the subject of illegals but I do know that we have a major problem and it does need to be adressed so a solution can be made.that isnt hate, its doing what should have been done a long time ago. I speek from experience cause i live in Texas and ive built houses for many years and i have to speak spanish to do my job anywhere in texas and some places in Louisiana! they need to go fix their own country insted of draining our economy

Dobbs or Limbaugh do not "spread hate" against anyone. Hussein is wrong again. We DO have a problem with illegals in this country. Talking about it or proposing solutions is not "spreading hate". He is so quick to see things that aren't there. HIs knee jerk reactions give me even more, like I needed more, reasons not to support him.

I agree with Obama, Lou Dobbs is not only relentless on this issue he's creating divisiveness with his ranting dialogs. I turn the channel from his segment immediately now.

wow... taking money back to mexico hurts us just as much as our trade defficit with china...yeah
i know they may have come to this country illeagally, but the fact they are only doing this becasue they want to live, support their famillies, and have a better life. maybe if our foriegn policies werent so shitty with the countries we actually have problems with, we wounldnt be in the situations we are in now with the world as much.

So why he is giving them credence? Where is his PLAN then?

Does Obama accuse everyone about everything?

Is that the best you have jade? You must be one of the third-worlders. Your welcome.

a real canadian who is also a real jerk

lol

or at least ur internet persona :P

If ive heard anybody with balls to publicly say what needs to be said, its Dobbs. Immigrants arent wanted by all citizens of nations, and those who want to help people of other lands, arent entitled to speak for us all. How did we become missionaries right here at home?? I had to leave Canada because its suicidal immigration laws that bring over a quarter million third-world people each year have destroyed it. They hand out citizenships to anyone, without looking at their past or considering if they would be a deficit to the country. If i had a business and was forced to hire unskilled people who i had to pay for they're language learning, i'd be bankrupt in no time.
"Diversity is our strength" is the biggest lie of our time, and we the citizens are paying for it, dearly.

the sundial. I dont think that they're agaisnt immigrants, but they're agaisnt the ones who come here illegally, and I totally agree with Lou Dobbs on that issue. People should come here the legal way, except if they're asylum, because it's a differnt situation. And anyway, illegals get treated like slaves, that's the main reason people are okay with it anyway.

Your economy runs on illegal immigration. Blame yourself when you shop at Walmart. The word illegal in this sense has nothing to do with morality. You're calling someone a criminal because they are actually running for their lives. I think that everyone who is against poor people immigrating to the US out of a desire for betterment should read some american history. And I don't mean the bible.

Then the truth is offensive.

"misdemeanants" nice. ha. =P

"Crossing the border and being caught is a misdemeanor. Being an illegal immigrant in this country is subject to deportation, but not prosecution. That's just a state of the law and that's what the law of the United States is."

"It is a misdemeanor to enter the country illegally, such as jumping the border. But simply being in the country without authorization, such as the 40 percent of illegal aliens who have overstayed their legal visas, is a civil matter punishable by deportation but not subject to criminal penalties."

so please, be politically correct and call them 'misdemeanants'...

lol

and not prosecutable misdemeanants...

:P

But you do that. You don't call them by their right name. I believe if you're going to tell people what is wrong and how it's wrong that you too should be held to the same line of thinking in things that you do. Otherwise you stating it means you're rlying when telling someone what is 'right'.

To answer whether or not you can find and point at one come to Houston and I will drive down Westpark past 59 and you'll see 50 of them in one spot. Every single one illegal. Then there is the 95% chance of pointing to a law service and finding even more.

It is possible.

I guess you just mean via location and that I'd have to agree with because here it's too easy to spot them.

I agree that people are humans and they should be treated as such no matter what they are. But to sit there and protect people who commit crimes is wrong. Trying to pass of their illegal behavior as heroic...they just want to save their family and work...is dismissing their bad behavior because they are doing it with good intentions. One cannot do that and be considered right, in most cases. This isn't one of them where it's possible to do that.

So you don't refer to anyone as boy or girl or look at that black man over there, when trying to show someone something. Or look at that fat woman. Look at that red head.

You don't do those things?

Do you know that the worst name to be called is a Rapist for actions you did not commit. Such as an 18 year old who slept with a 16 year old and is charged as one. That name is stuck with that 18 year old (males for the most part). That's a horrible name.

Being called illegal for your actions that you could have chosen a DIFFERENT route of going about things is no one's fault but the person who did the crime. Don't like it don't do it.

You know what a murderer has done? Killed someone. Their action is murdering. Do you blame their action or do you name the person/ I don't think you make that clear of a distinction as you are pretending to do here.

spreading hate is never a good thing!!

no matter who is the target

Someone that forces someone to have sex is a rapist.
The leader of the United Stats is a president.
Give birth, raise a child be a mom.
Crossing the border under the shroud of darkness and a lie makes you illegal. If you don't want to be something don't preform the action that would label you. If it really matters that much to you.

If we crossed over to Mexico and lived their illegally we'd get into more trouble than someone that does the exact thing from Mexico to America.

Also on the border there are gangs that have killed people...kidnapped them.

Illegal is wrong. Period. If you want to do things right then do them right. Don't do them wrong and go But I had the best of intentions....the road to hell was paved with good intentions.

No other country in this world has open borders like the United States. No other country has the financial hiccup we are experiencing. American's first then everyone else. That's how this country should work. Thinking that we should help everyone just because it's "nice" is killing everyone else.

"The fact that they are here illegally proves they are in fact not law abiding."

It could also mean they're willing to do whatever it takes to feed themselves and their families, and maybe get a piece of the American dream. It's not that people like Lou Dobbs is advocating against illegal immigration, it's the fear and hate mongering. Like Yuval pointed out, it goes beyond illegal immigration, and what should be a cause is now a vendetta. It takes so much energy to hate. It would be much more productive to use that energy toward finding a real solution.

well they are...

Hi JohnA,

Dobbs also attacks legal immigrants. For example in this link you can see how he says that people who get "employment visas" in the US are stealing American jobs. That is nothing more than a form of scapegoating.

http://www.zazona.com/Shameh1b/Library/Archives/CNNMoneyline.htm

Not against immigrants, against illegal immigrants, you do know what the term "illegal" means don't you? The fact that they are here illegally proves they are in fact not law abiding.

I cant ever see Dobbs show without turning the channel in anger, the guy is just a bitter old man.

Lou Dobbs has gone from a smart man with great insight on a wide range of subjects to a talk show host who panders to peoples fears. This man is an economist and has a very goody understanding of finance. For him to be advocating the mass deportation of illegal immigrants, does not make sense. A majority of these people are law abiding that want to support there family. Yes they broke the law coming here, but the rest of the world other than the US and the other Western first world nations are the only place left where there is a middle class. The poor here at least can afford a roof over there heads and to put food on there tables. Penalize them financially, collect taxes from them, and allow them to become part of the system, rather than living in the shadows draining the system.