History of Palestine in Maps.

It is a map of the Arab world. Which country here is not Arab? Except maybe Somalia? This map does not distort the truth... if it does, please tell me how, don't just say it does with no explanation.... You don't think these posts cross the line? How about jh66487 and worldpeacetv?

Thank you, JudahEvan. I also think it is possible to disagree with the Israeli government but not be anti-semitic because Israel isn't the voice of the Jewish people.

IamHipHop (love the name) -- I am totally with you, many of these posts are ridiculous in their inherently biased nature. Acting as if atrocities have not been committed by sides is historical foolishness. But you scream Anti-Semitism like the boy who cried wolf, or Nazi for that matter. And maybe I didn't want to hash into historical matters Iamhiphop, I thought most people would understand my post as being a relatively accurate recognition of the situation. Well here we go . . .

The Irgun killed and raped women and children during the war for independence, or naqba, depending on your world view. 710,000 Palestinians were uprooted from their homes violently and dramatically in the face of artificial papers signed by Britain during WWI which promised the land to both peoples.

Thousands of Israeli citizens have come under barbarous terrorist attacks from all corners of the Levant and the entire Middle East. Recently, men from East Jerusalem have gone on bulldozer killing sprees just for resistance's sake (today in fact).

And those are just two little examples each to tally up on both sides of the seemingly eternal battle. I could spend all day. One for Israel. One for Fatah. One for the Jews. One for the Arabs. However you want to break it down, I can do it.

But you, Iamhiphop, are focused on one side only. You're misunderstanding of legitimate grievances and the limitless nature of the warzone is very obvious. I would bet you think that their are innocent civilians in this battle, when the truth is that all are actors and promoters of belligerence and violence, on both sides. I mean, Israel has an involuntary service statute and Palestinian societies both in Gaza and the West Bank are all part of the resistance. Don't forget, Hamas was democratically elected in '06. Not to say that they are innocent or anything, but they do speak for the people of Gaza.

So what I do is try to internalize the pain on both sides and recognize the pointless circles that we all perpetuate: in public, in deed, and on Current. And I am correct. Not you Iamhiphop. Only 1/3 of this map at the most is Arab (and even though Iran is not there on the map, everyone can picture it -- and Iran is not Arab). The rest, as I said before, is the predominantly Muslim Middle East. Peace brother.

Alright man. You may have tons of first hand experience. And I have not bought into anti-Israel propaganda. I'm just shocked to see you say that Ethiopia, Sudan, Algeria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Morocco, and Libya are Arab states? I just don't think that's accurate. Didn't you read the 'non-Arab in the Arab world' part of the wikipedia page you pasted? That's my point there. They have sizable Arab populations and all speak, in a majority, Arabic - except for maybe Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

For all the first hand experience you speak of, I'm surprised you give credence to the time tested Jew vs Arab rhetoric by putting up a map that I do not think reflects the situation accurately. Don't forget, Palestinians were not instant cause celeb in the Middle East. Arabs in general did not reach out the humanitarian hand that brotherhood seems to naturally dictate (not that they had to at all, being forced out and all, but that doesn't change the hard actions employed by Jordan at the time). To that end, the solidarity that this map seems to invent is the universal and natural hatred of Israel (seeing as how all these Arab states, though they are not all Arab, surround and threaten tiny, little Israel). Political machinations and media permeations have spread the growth of the anti-Israel movement throughout the Middle East over the last 40 years, seeing as how it started with surrounding Arab states, eventually making its way to Iran, Algeria, and Pakistan. And I know all about the forced migration of Jews from all over this map and into Israel. That is my point: atrocities on both sides, all sides. But the politics toward the state for many of these Muslim countries remained more steadfast and fair, for some time, then this map would let know.

I still wonder if it is you or I who is a little more objective.

What is with the I am Hip Hop name anyway and being a Zionist provocateur?

What in god's name does Hip Hop have to do with being Jewish?

Jubal, you make me laugh!
:]

Hey HatePeaceTV - You say America has Israel's back. How about who has th Palestinians backs? Saudi Arabia, Iran and all the other freedom loving backwards ass countries with Trillions of oil dollars.....

If they truly had the Palestinians back there would be no Israel.

no my man... you got it all wrong. going off your analogy of the native americans it is exactly the opoosite. in that scenario, the arabs would be america and israel would be the native americans. can you imagine if the native americans got a tiny piece of america back as their independent homeland and suddenly america was crying "look how you're oppressing us?" you have it all twisted up.

i hate that excuse for anti-semitism....we're not hate jews, we just hate zionism.... that is the biggest load of crap. zionism and judaism cannot be removed from each other. every part of judaism has to do with jerusalem and having an independent homeland. you disguise your hatred of jews by just saying you're against zionism.... that's pathetic. at least own up to the fact that you hate jews the way these terrorist groups do. even they have more integrity than you do.

Amen.

Ok, i'm assuming this is about the supposed comments amahdinejad made about Israel. To begin with I think you'll agree that translating languages as difficult as say, ancient greek, or chinese or arabic into english accurately is extremely difficult. like old german, there are many nuances and subtleties of such language that can be misconstrued by a translator. Well the same is true for farsi. I'd suggest you do a little more research on what it is exactly mahmoud said, this was an interesting read and makes things a lot clearer

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

also, i'll flat out accept that his comment on homosexuality was silly, but really, the entire middle east, and many many other places in the world are extremely homophobic (jamaica for instance). so...yea, that's just the way it is still in the larger world.

I'm not sure what other evil things he's done...

by the way in case you didn't know, the western forces literally pushed palestinians out of their homes and divided their small country in half in 1948. Think about what you'd do if someone did that to america (I mean, if someone did that to america when you weren't so embarrassed/disgusted to be american). believe me, the palestinians are as upset by the lack of proper support from the rest of the middle-east as anyone, but quite frankly, the israelis just have a bigger stick (a la the US of A).

Oh, and I'll certainly give props to Israel for it's capacity for violence, they kicked some serious arabic ass, proving that the biblical accounts of violence most likely had merit. but is this a good thing??

maybe you should do a little research on the quality of life in gaza or even the West bank. These people are treated horrifically and have little to know expectations for happiness in life. right next to them and utterly controlling them, is a prosperous little first world nation just booming. think about it

Israel has been placating the Christian Evangelicals since Golda Meier.

They have been using the Evangelicals in America to further their Zionist agenda. What you have is two different groups, the Jewish people who want to live in Peace, and the extremist Zionist who want revenge for the holocaust; what is sick is that they are playing games with the Apocalyptic Evangelical Christians who want nothing more than to see Armageddon and Jesus return.

At which point if that scenario were to happen (which we all know wont) the Jews would have to convert to Evangelical Christianity or be killed by Jesus's Christian Soldiers.

Depends on who you mean by 'Israel'. If you mean the Israeli public (who by the way are more critical than anyone about their own foreign policies.), than sure, I feel sympathy.
But if you mean the Israeli government, than no. The Israeli gov has been and continue to treat Palestinians as inhuman.

You are right here.
There is a clear difference.
I hear both sides of the issues though.
It does not make everything Israeli govt does 100% evil or good. Because Bush bombs defenseless countries it does not make every soldier/fireman and patrol officer in America evil. I am not educated in this by any means. I think both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Both sides have murderers and both sides have innocents. Israel is helped by a corrupt govt ..ours..so it has elements of that . But should we throw out babies with the bath water?

I hear from both sides that the other side is 100% evil.

I hear from both sides that they, themselves are 100% good and sweet and pure. I know neither is right. That is impossible.

Why does everything have to be black and white???
Do people have such limited perspective that they can not see the whole picture but only what is in front of them at the time?

He's bad I'm good..
Are not we wiser than that?
Are we not mo0re humane than to blame babies and mothers for their governments actions?

These children are on the road to peace
I have to post it again.