Q&A: why has fighting broken out in South Ossetia?
source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/georgia.russia4
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- saverio
- added this
The Guardian provides a short but comprehensive article to explain the reasons behind the breakaway region's push for independence.
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- News and Politics, Politics
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- News and Politics, Politics, War, World, 6 more
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Carnagefiend
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Some of you guys are mistaking having wars about oil and using oil to fuel wars.
Correlation is not necessarily causation.
- 3 years ago
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Carnagefiend
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JohnA
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It is about power and authority, Putin sees oil as the means by which he can control the world. Putin is a Stalinist. He is KGB. Look at the way he subverted his own government to retain power in his hands after his Presidential term limit ran out. He just made himself Prime Minister and carried on with business. Look at the political opponents he had imprisoned. Kasparov, the opposition Presidential nominee was jailed before the recent election. Remember the spy that died in England mysteriously from radiation poisoning? He is ruthless.
- 3 years ago
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JohnA
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Emil_G
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JohnA:
Putin subverted his own government? Bollocks indeed. How exactly? Oh he changed the constitution to give his new prime minister position powers it did not have before? Wait he didn't do that...
- 3 years ago
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Emil_G
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Carnagefiend
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This isn't necessarily a war of resources. If you've taken a long look at the history of Western Culture you'll see people are more than willing to fight for power and authority.
Yes, people will go to war for oil and other various resources, but that doesn't seem to be the root cause. WWI started because diplomatic relations collapsed and escalated. This is a similar situation.
This isn't -about- oil, but it could eventually become one when other nations begin to see means to advance their interests.
- 3 years ago
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Carnagefiend
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JohnA
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It is absolutely about the oil. Putin wants to rule the world and he sees oil as the means to do it. Why do you think he's making buddy buddy with Hugo Chavez? Why do you think he said he would support Iran against Israel? He gets their oil under his control, he's got it all tied up. And he wants that pipeline.
- 3 years ago
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JohnA
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JudahEvan
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JohnA:
JohnA, you are such a bandwagon fool. Shadowfilm actually knows what he is talking about. You are just trying to sound intelligent. This is about self-determination for the people of South Ossetia. Whatever strategic goals Russia or the US has comes in second to the playoff that South Ossetia is perpetrating on the entire world here. They are playing Russia against Georgia (and the US) because they can. They have been waiting a long time to do so, and to act as if oil is the only reason for this conflict is ignorant. But again, shadowfilm knows what he is talking about; you don't.
- 3 years ago
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JudahEvan
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JohnA
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JohnA:
It doesn't take a genious to figure out that Putin will use this to his advantage. The US should stay far out of it in my opinion. This is a territorial battle we are being dragged into because of NATO. If the people of South Ossetia want to come under Russian influence, it's fine with me. When my tax dollars get spent to quell a uprising I have no stake in, I want to know what's going on. And control of the Georgian pipeline is what's going on.
- 3 years ago
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JohnA
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huntre
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Whatever the reason (or reasons), this is that golden moment GWB and Gang have been waiting for after having all hands in it's inception.
- 3 years ago
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huntre
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Vierotchka
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What is coveted more, you ask? Here is a short list of the immense and largely untapped resources of Russia:
Iron ore, manganese, chromium, nickel, platinum, titanium, copper, tin, lead, tungsten, diamonds, phosphates, and gold, and the forests of Siberia contain an estimated one-fifth of the world's timber, mainly conifers. The iron ore deposits of the Kursk Magnetic Anomaly, close to the Ukrainian border in the southwest, are believed to contain one-sixth of the world's total reserves. Intensive exploitation began there in the 1950s. Other large iron ore deposits are located in the Kola Peninsula, Karelia, south-central Siberia, and the Far East. The largest copper deposits are located in the Kola Peninsula and the Urals, and lead and zinc are found in North Ossetia. - 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Blazesboy
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A valuable and illuminating post - thanks, saverio!
- 3 years ago
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Blazesboy
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shadowfilm
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Yes it is about weakening Russia - they are competition and a threat to any one that's not an ally, that's the nature of global politics, sadly. But it's not about invading Russia, no-one has ever succeeded in that and no-one ever will. It's a joke that the Bush administration looks more than even a decade ahead! The Bush administration, as is every other major world power, including Russia, is most interested in oil out of all resources - what may I ask is coveted more? There is no other resource that the developed nations in the world need more, as their entire economies are structured to depend on the stuff. Unless we do something about it as consumers. Take away the need for oil, and governments like the Bush administration wouldn't even exist. Then the control of sensitive regions will become less justified and supported. The same principle goes for other finite resources. So I guess you could say all modern conflicts are about consumption. But this one is oil.
- 3 years ago
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shadowfilm
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Vierotchka
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No, it is not about oil, it is far more complicated than that. It is about the USA slowly hemming-in and weakening Russia before taking Russia over in a few decades so as to get to control Russia's vast and most coveted natural resources, least of which is oil.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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shadowfilm
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This is all about oil. First the U.S. and E.U. look to gain access to the Caspian Sea oil reserves, because lo and behold, look where it is, next to Russia and Iran. Oil is running out elsewhere, and supply is unstable, and they would do everything to undermine the economies of bitter rivals. So the West manages to strike a deal with the South Caucases who stand to gain more financially than just letting Russia take all the oil, and the pipeline is built (the majority of GDP for Azerbaijan comes from oil, which the pipeline runs through). Russia clearly doesn't like this so they send people into Georgia to stir up ethnic strife in order to destabilise the government, instill their own people and control the pipeline. Russia clearly does not care about the validity of breakaway states, as in the case of Chechnya just down the road. (If you look around the globe almost anywhere can be stirred up ethnically - why here?) Georgia turns against the enemies of the state and seek wider NATO protection from Russia. Russia is infuriated by traitors on their doorstep and builds up military presence in the region in preparation for invasion. Dealing with Georgia not only affects the issue of the pipeline, but also sends a clear message for other neighbour states not to mess with them (much like the mafia would do.) The U.S clearly does not care about the position it puts the people of the region in, and militarily backs Georgia in order to protect the supply of the oil it so badly wants. What Russia and the West clearly only care about is who controls the OIL.
This isn't a conspiracy and I have no affiliations and take no sides. This is simple geopolitical strategy. My own country is guilty (the U.K.) for allowing it's criminal oil corporations to become the cause of other people's problems yet again. There are no innocents in this game, except for the civilians who get killed in the process, and the planet as whole which suffers from the human carbon addiction. The wars of this century will not be fought over ideology or nationality, but resources. Ideology and nationality makes for perfect propaganda. After all, our leaders wouldn't want us to choose to stop consuming, would they? We'd put them out of business, out of power. Time for us the people to give carbon up!
- 3 years ago
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shadowfilm
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Vierotchka
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And guess who is behind it all.... you'll find out in this article from November 2007. The UK has a vested interest along with the US in Georgia's attacking Ossetia, by the way.
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Vierotchka
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A spot of history with thanks to liberate_America:
Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia have never ever been a part of Georgia and hold no historical, cultural or luinguistical links. Georgia did not exist as a country in the Soviet Union, the inclusion of part of Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia (1930's) was for the purpose of more easily distributing central Soviet resources. Georgia was not a country then and Ossetia and Abkhazia never have been and never will be a part of Georgia. Ethnic strife however is a very valuable asset for political manipulations-to the twisted evil US powers that be!
Unfortunately even the most progressive of people are not seeing the forest through the trees. Georgia was converted into an American satellite and instrument for provocation as far back as during Gorbachev's time. Ghamzakurdia, Shevuardnadze and Saakhashvili were all employed and controlled by the "Powers that be" in the US. Georgia offers little interest as a corridor for transporting oil and Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia in no way offer any threat to that transport. You are being dumbed down by stories of oil here. Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia have never ever been a part of Georgia throughout history (Abkhazia was occupied by Georgian Roman Catholic expansionists about a thousand years ago for a short period). Less than 2% of Southern Ossetia is Georgians(moved in by force in the 1920's). Georgia opened fire on the city and leveled it in just days. 1600 bodies so far, but the streets are still littered with bodies because Georgian snipers didn't allow anyone to collect the dead. Was this not a blatant act of ethnic purging?
This is obviously a pre-election manipulation because Saakhashvili does nothing without closely following his orders from US powers that be! Is this a Bush pre-election attempt to get more Republican votes for his heir McCain by provocating Russia to intervene? Or is this an attempt to drive a wedge between an upcoming progressive American president and the progressive Russian President? Obviously it was a crime commited by the US Powers that be! In an attempt to manipulate your brains with manipulated versions of their new synthesized stream of negative events! Welcome to Domestic US Psyops, the US war against it's own people's minds!
- 3 years ago
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Vierotchka
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kennymotown
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What a mess, I'm sure tanks, bombers, fighter jets and standing army's will sort it out.
- 3 years ago
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kennymotown
