Gangsters are 'insecure' and 'threatened by women'

my best friend in highschool went the coke dealer way.

He doesnt treat his "female friends" very well.

Thats why we dont hang out anymore. Other than when i bring him 20 dollars so he can by ramon noodles once a motn

Gee...where to begin on this one? Kids, who decide they can get respect @ the barrel of a gun or the point of knife are simply afraid of women looking better than them professionally/socially. Hmm...I just don't think alot of people are gonna buy this one. Or maybe it's just me. These people who believe that FEAR=RESPECT are the most delusional people in this fine country of ours. They need a "feeling" of superiority over others to feel that they are of any use or importance. They feel they have the "right " to take what they are too lazy to earn. Example...stealing a car as opposed to earning the money to "buy" one. Always take the "easy" path, but without looking at the consequences that lay at the end of that path. And yet, we, as a nation, are told how these people in these "gangs" are just "misguided youths" from broken homes and poor neighborhoods and that "we" should do more to reach-out to them. Gee...then i guess we should feel the same way about the GANGS of people in some other countries who go buy names like Al-Qeada and all the others. Surely they too are just misunderstood. Now, to be fair...let me qualify my remark. Al-Qeada terrorists use murder/drugs and weapons to instill fear in a given area to try to control the people living there and make them subject to their laws and beliefs. Gang members over here use the same exact weapons and tactics to do exactly the same things in our cities and neighborhoods. So... what's the difference you ask? Well, we demonize the behavior, and rightfully so, in one locality, and make excuses for it in our own backyard. We even scrutinize under the most extreme of microscopes anyone who actually does anything about it. If you shoot a gang member, a dozen national organizations will be all over you trying to make ""YOU"" out to be the Criminal! I don't know how many people out there will share my views or not, but I personally think that people who make the "choice", and yes, it is a CHOICE, to join the gangs that infest our country, should be subject to the same level of response that we provide the "gangs" that we deal with around the world. To make those countries better places for the good people who live there. Lets do the same here. Maybe then will parents stop allowing their kids to grow up in gangs and start taking responsibility for their childrens upbringing. Because you know....even a Suicide bomber was once a child with a chance to grow up and be something great. I'm sorry for the length of this post....but I just feel that it really needed to be said even though it wouldn't be POLITICLLY correct.

I think some of us Ameri-centric readers are a little bit confused with this story.

First, we are talking about England, not the U.S., and although the British gang culture does indeed mirror U.S. gang culture, they are different. For instance,he specifically mentions the Caribbean community, but makes clear he is actually speaking inclusively about ALL British youth, not just "black" or "lower class" kids.

Also, another thing some readers aren't understanding, David Lammy, the man quoted in the article, is a politician, not a religious leader. The term Minister refers to his political title as Parliamentary Under Secretary for Innovation, Universities and Skills.

So, his point is interesting, but ultimately moot. Gangs thrive among lost and disassociated youths, among children, teens and young adults who feel they have little or no options in life, and/or have little or no personal support system (i.e, local education/employment, family, etc.).

Gangs have existed before women's rights, and will exist long after. It is not about who else is getting employment and achieving conventional success; it is instead about the individual gang member's own personal feelings of inferiority which have nothing to do with gender. In fact, as American youth have shown, you do not have to be male to be a gang member: girls are prevalent in gang culture. Are they also feeling emasculated by all the successful women?

this isn't really news, is it. they live what is ultimately a fear based life. they act out the way they do because they are threatened.

But i thought "they aint never scared"

Has anyone else ever noticed that ironically it is only certain rap/hip-hop music and racist, redneck country music (David Allen Coe?) that both seem to derive power from misogyny?

@ the video Swiyyah posted...

That's not thug, that's the Hollywood location manager and director's glamorized version of thug. This video is a perfect demonstration of the desire to overcompensate for not having money or love by pretending to have infinite control of money and even control over the daughters of type-cast respectable-looking wealthy men (which I would presume means a feeling of power).

Pure insecurity fantasy.

This video is the perfect example.

For even one successful "thug/gangsta" (who is actually a poet and musician), how many REAL thugs are clogging the criminal justice system because they want to be like our musician friend here?

Rich artists parading as gangstas probably gets the wires crossed and does untold damage to countless unknowns from the school level onward. I'm not a big backer of organized religion, but to illustrate its purpose, imagine if these kids looked up to Jesus instead. Sure, it's also a fantasy of sorts, but at least it instills ethics and morals that lead to respect for others and the possibility of a loving relationship.

Too bad Jesus doesn't drive a rented Lamborghini with rims...perhaps someone should work on that.

From a distance, it's all fun and games for white suburban kids to embrace the gangsta style rap as a joke. When you've actually seen the idiocy of the problems on the actual street level, it's a much different story. But those wanna be gangstas...nevermind...Christ, I sound like an Eazy-E song now.

Have many of your friends pack heat? Why?

This guy is an artist selling a fantasy sequence of everything he's never had, and getting rich doing it with no concern for the rest of the people that don't make it to his level on artistic talent or creativity as he has.

Is glorifying being on parole not fucking stupid?

Only if you can find a way to make money by doing it, but that would require having no regard for the people to whom you are preaching through your lyrics, lest they not have the money to stay out of the jail system as you do.

But that brings me back to the underlying point of my whole argument, that some people are beyond help and they will follow their false idol role models right into jail cells because of insecurity. It's still hard to watch coming from a relatively intelligent, well-raised perspective.

The focus on materialism and misogyny over everything else is clearly a cover-up, and I'm pretty sure that's the definition of emotional insecurity.

"I'm afraid I'm inadequate, so I'm going to avoid all chances of being seen as inadequate by putting up this cartoonish act." - Insert rapper's name of your choosing here

Well, whatever works I guess.

On an somewhat unrelated note, it pisses me off when such characters take credit for the power of drugs (as symbolized by the ice cream truck freely distributing), since it is the DRUGS that have the power to attract people like flies to honey, not the people selling the drugs. The gangsters are taking credit they don't deserve. The government's own failed policies have led to this blurring in our culture, and the gangsters have just been the ones to capitalize on it.

Don't ask me how I know all these things, let's just say I've had a much more unbelievable life story then I ever could have expected.

Its hard out there for a pimp.

This has nothing to do with women obtaining better careers. It's a mixture of many factors, but I think there are some key factors which have the most impact on a childs direction in life.

I think the first has to be parenting. If the parents can't control and explain to their kids from an early age what is right and wrong then kids are more than likely going to make big mistakes affecting their lives and others too. Also these kids generally grow up having their own kids, which will learn little to nothing of good values and principles. This point is, imo, the deciding factor in the increase of gang culture and antisocial behaviour.

Secondly, the law in some countries (I'm thinking mainly of the UK) can be full of BS. If I have child of my own in the UK I would be scared of disciplining my child because I could be taken to court over this. The fact is kids only learn from a good smack on the arse. Sending them to their room does absolutely nothing.

Hmmm I can't think of any others right now, but I'm sure there are a few more. Some say rap music/violent games/films that glorifies violence is a bad influence which I agree with to some extent, but if the parenting problem is solved this factor is really insignificant, because children should be told and made to understand good principles from an early age.

This same minister will probably try to write a book before the year is out and give the money "to God" while he pulls up in a new Lexus.

bullshit.

"losing their sense of masculinity' as women become more powerful in the traditional jobs market, a minister has warned.".....

notice how it says "a MINISTER has warned"!

I live in a neighborhood of Brooklyn where gangs are quite visible and it seems to me that kids joining these gangs has nothing to do with them seeing women having more power in the workforce. Most of them don't even see women in the work force.

That has definitely got to be the most ignorant thing I have heard this week.Where did they get this information,out of a fortune cookie?

Thats strange because most of these "gangstas" come from single parent homes where the mother is the sole provider....i wonder what this little preacher man suggests. The mothers stay home get on welfare and bake cakes all day, so perhaps her son could be the sole provider for the family???

because that situation to me sounds like a young man with too many responsibilites and no father figgure that might look to gangs and selling drugs to support his family...

Oh...wait....

I've become successful. My brother is not joining a gang. Lol. Ludacris. Whomever believes this is true must not have read any research on gang life.

no, not at all. insecure? yes. because of women? no. study gang life, its very easy to see how and why it works. its very simple really.

Sounds like a cop out to me.

Oh brother. Blaming crime life on women's successes? Lame.

Once again women are the root of evil, how original. Sounds to me like someone is projecting.

I take the term "threatened" this way:

If I were a high school dropout and was told to start attending a college level Calculus class -- I would feel "threatend" in the sense that I felt totally unprepared, confused and unsure of myself. Every time the teacher would call on me I'd feel awful because I'd obviously not have a clue what he was talking about and I'd feel even worse because I knew everyone else did.

When you feel threaten (even if its just your sense of confidence and self-worth) you tend to lash out.

"This class is bullshit, man. And you're all suck-ups! School is for punks!"

It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to say that if you grew up without any male role models to show you how to talk to women, well, then you'd probably feel really insecure and unsure of yourself when you did try to interact with them.

"Ain't nothing but bitches and ho's, man! Who cares what they think?"

The preacher may be on to something in a roundabout way.

The preacher wasn't (I don't think) trying to imply that street gangs are the fault of feminisim or "empowered women" or that women are to blamed at all, really.

I think the bigger picture is that for most gang members there is no MALE in their home life, biological father or otherwise. They are usually raised in broken homes by single mothers -- so they've grown up not having a good grasp on what it means to be a "man" or how they should act.

That doesn't sound like such a crazy theory to me.

How does a man act and what is the appropriate way to interact with women?

Insecurity about your own masculinity and insecurity about whether your being a "man" correctly can easily lead to bad behavior. No one wants to go through life confused and constantly unsure of themselves -- so they gravitate toward the only clear cut examples available.

If the only people specifically showing you exactly how to act and also giving you positive reinforcement when you do act a certain way or other male gang members...then of course they'll adopt that behaviour.

I think the preacher was trying to make a statement more about the lack of confidence and identity in the male kids then actually trying to blame feminisim.

If we can identify the root cause of why gangs are so attractive then maybe we can work on creating positive alternatives.

its because of this BS image shit crammed down our throats by the mainstream corporate gangs.

again, i think this is victim mentality. saying this is like saying that these dummies get programmed by TV. that they're too stupid to know better. if anything, advertisers reflect the culture and what they want.

"There is clearly blatant insecurity behind the bling and behavior somewhere."

it strikes me as ironic that these guys are insecure because they wear flash jewelry, but those who emblazon their sweatshirts and the back window of their car with "Yale University" or "Harvard Law" are not doing something similar.

is it possible that the charges of misogyny in rap come from those outside the culture, those who've taken the naive position that "these poor women" are victims. i just came back from visiting a side of my family who are Black, Spanish, Jamaican, suburban, etc. they all listened to some hardcore shit that would easily be labeled misogynistic. despite the outward machismo, the guys were sweethearts to their girlfriends. despite the French manies/pedies and dressing like Britney Spears the girls were anything but dumb and weak.

I think it depends where the culprits we're discussing come from.

Someone born and raised in a community where the thug life is prevalent could logically seek that vocation because it garners opportunities not readily available elsewhere.

But if you're talking about the trust-fund baby with the corn-rows and the grill, taking his act out of the gated-community down into the ghetto, slangin' and bangin', etc... then, yeah, I think Lammy might have a point in saying there are some masculinity issues involved.

I don't see how this necessarily involves women in the work place, though. I think that part is a stretch.

Does this explain all the misogomy found in gangsta rap? Hmmm, Maybe this theory isn't as far fetched as I initially thought.

I'm not sure if this is in the context of "hip-hop gangstas" or not, but what I've noticed in life, is that great men don't need to tell you how great they are.

There is clearly blatant insecurity behind the bling and behavior somewhere.

For organized crime gang members, there's a different story because they are just criminals who can apply their skills to stealing from others rather than succeeding in legitimate business.

Street gangs are just a pathetic and dangerous replacement for love, belonging, and meaning that is not being provided by the dysfunctional families that had the kids in the first place.

"Gangs" in any form appear to be a replacement for love, and that damn sure doesn't make the world a better place.

I don't see any reason that a man should turn to thug life because some woman has a better job than him.

Women are under pressure to be skinny and men are under pressure to be rich. It's time for a masculinist movement.

You can only suppress a society for so long before the pressure causes it to morph into some destructively altered form of itself. It's not insecurity caused by woman so much as frustration caused by repression.

THIS IS UTTERLY MORONIC, typical liberal hype. Gangs are NOT a product of insecurity and loss of masculinity. They are a product of kids being raised by other kids, it's an absence of a RESPONSIBLE well rounded family including BOTH a mother and a father. It's the neglect to instill a moral compass in children, it's from a fear of telling a kid that they have failed in a task, have behaved inappropriately, or that they are NOT living up to their full potential. It's a bi-product of a sterilized society and fear of hurting someones feelings by drawing a clear line between being a social failure or a success. This is not a racial issue, it's not a class issue, nor is it a religious issue. There have been successful & great people from ALL walks of life, races, and religions. Wasting time dwelling on crackpot apologist theories such as this tripe are benefitting NO ONE.

UGG, me beat you over head, show you whose boss!
Yet more excuses for lack of, or bad parenting.

I don't think its women in the workplace that is creating a sense of inferiority, its modern marketing and advertising. TV, radio, billboards, the music scene, magazines.... I don't really agree with the premise at all actually, I just think if it is true to any extent, its not because of women working, its because of this BS image shit crammed down our throats by the mainstream corporate gangs....

Why is a minister trying to tell people why young men join gangs if he's never been in one himself? He up there shiting on other people he doesn't understand just to tell the congregation what they want to hear so he can keep that money rollin in....

Maybe women do make them insecure, that would explain the need to refer to them as bitches. I like a girl with a good paying job and a high credit score i guess that makes me not a gangster

Rather than women in traditional male working roles being a direct causal factor of men turning to gangs, I wonder at the more obvious cause and effect relationship of single parenting and the need to acquire better-paying (traditionally male) jobs. It seems the main factor in the latter is simply necessity.

Sounds like psychobabble. For gang members, most whom joined while they were children , the problem existed within dysfunctional homes long before employment issues ever became a consideration. Do Red Mafia gang members have an inferiority complex, or are they insecure? It's members are made up of some of the most elite individuals you'll ever know, so I highly doubt it. Gangs are like a virus, they primarily exploit weakness, in all forms. Although morally reprehensible, gangs will therefore exploit weaknesses in women. To suggest gang members are intimidated in some way by women, much less any authority, is foolish.

Study history and you'll find this pattern of gang culture throughout time, even in the first book of Proverbs. Men may have lost their "identity", but certainly not their masculinity. Women are not the culprit here, but greed is.

Sure this sounds right

My overly-masculine completely-homophobic boyfriend is planning on jumping off a bridge if I get a better job then him.

Oh latinos

i dont put it past boys to do things like this...but what will they turn to if woman start running gangs and things?

Just sounds like some patriarchal douche fishing for something to blame feminism upon.

Kind of hillariously pathetic, really.

Gangsters need love too.

Something tells me that it's actually the minister who is threatened by women...

Women have had to deal with male dominance in the workplace for years and we never turned to gang culture.

So what's the minister implying, that women should give up their top jobs and become secretaries or housewives to these poor lost boys?

Yeah this seems like another ignorant religious preacher spewing stereotypes and "commonsense" logic to try and explain a serious social issue in terms that reinforce their religious morals. Does he have any data other than the fact that African American women are over coming men in social mobility???

I cant find his real speech or what have you...
He does mention the lack of jobs, which is much more prone to cause crime than emasculation.

.... that i know of.

Seems about right... These dudes def. have some insecurities.

From my experience, therz more then jst women who are making these men insecure.