News and Politics | October 18, 2008 | 38 comments

Response to 9/11 was 'huge overreaction' - ex-MI5 chief

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A former head of MI5 today describes the response to the September 11 2001 attacks on the US as a "huge overreaction" and says the invasion of Iraq influenced young men in Britain who turned to terrorism.

In an interview with the Guardian, Stella Rimington calls al-Qaida's attack on the US "another terrorist incident" but not qualitatively different from any others.

"That's not how it struck me. I suppose I'd lived with terrorist events for a good part of my working life and this was as far as I was concerned another one," she says.

In common with Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, who retired as MI5's director general last year, Rimington, who left 12 years ago, has already made it clear she abhorred "war on terror" rhetoric and the government's abandoned plans to hold terrorism suspects for 42 days without charge.

Today, she goes further by criticising politicians including Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, for trying to outbid each other in their opposition to terrorism and making national security a partisan issue.

It all began, she suggests, with September 11. "National security has become much more of a political issue than it ever was in my day," she says. "Parties are tending to use it as a way of trying to get at the other side. You know, 'We're more tough on terrorism than you are.' I think that's a bad move, quite frankly."

Rimington mentions Guantánamo Bay, the practice of extraordinary rendition, and the invasion of Iraq - three issues which the majority in Britain's security and intelligence establishment opposed privately at the time.

She challenges claims, notably made by Tony Blair, that the war in Iraq was not related to the radicalisation of Muslim youth in Britain.

Asked what impact the war had on the terrorist threat, she replies: "Well, I think all one can do is look at what those people who've been arrested or have left suicide videos say about their motivation. And most of them, as far as I'm aware, say that the war in Iraq played a significant part in persuading them that this is the right course of action to take."

She adds: "So I think you can't write the war in Iraq out of history. If what we're looking at is groups of disaffected young men born in this country who turn to terrorism, then I think to ignore the effect of the war in Iraq is misleading."
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38 comments // Response to 9/11 was 'huge overreaction' - ex-MI5 chief

  • WhiteNoise
    • 0
      WhiteNoise  
    • Image
    • May I suggest that... WAR IS A RACKET !
      http://www.warisaracket.org/f___k_the_GWOT.html

      While we're at it....

      ARE WESTERN LEADERS WAR CRIMINALS ?
      http://my.nowpublic.com/world/are-western-leaders-war-criminals

      That pesky Chomsky doesn’t mince words…

      "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." - Noam Chomsky

      Either does Paul Craig Roberts. Craig was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review.

      I'll leave him do the talking...

      Why do the American people and “their” representatives in Congress continue to tolerate a criminal Bush Regime that uses lies and propaganda to mask its acts of naked aggression, war crimes under the Nuremberg standard?

      So all the "Oups I did it again" or "Sorry world about that whole FUCK YOU thang" sounds oh soo lame & hypocritical by now...

      "They tell us that we live in a great free republic; that our institutions are democratic; that we are a free and self-governing people. That is too much, even for a joke. ... Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder... And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles." : Eugene Victor Debs

      "It does not matter if the war is not real, or when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of modern warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A hierarchal society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. The war is waged by the ruling group against its subjects, and its object is not victory, but to keep the very structure of society in tact." - George Orwell, from 1984

    • 3 years ago
  • maasanova
  • oblivious
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  
    • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Office_of_Special_Plans

      Paul Dundes Wolfowitz, OSP architect
      Douglas Jay Feith, Undersecretary of Defense (OSP reports to)
      Steven A. Cambone, Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence
      Abram N. Shulsky, Director of Office of Special Plans
      William Luti, Undersecretary of Defense who "oversees the OSP"

      "As the momentum for war [in Iraq] began to build in early 2002, Paul D. Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith beefed up the intelligence unit and created an Iraq war-planning unit in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia Affairs section, run by Deputy Undersecretary of Defense William Luti, under the rubric Office of Special Plans, or OSP; the new unit's director was Abram N. Shulsky. By then, David Wurmser had moved on to a post as senior adviser to Undersecretary of State John Bolton, yet another neocon, who was in charge of the State Department's disarmament, proliferation, and WMD office and was promoting the Iraq war strategy there. Shulsky's OSP, which incorporated the secret intelligence unit, took control, banishing veteran experts-including Joseph McMillan, James Russell, Larry Hanauer, and Marybeth McDevitt-who, despite years of service to NESA, either were shuffled off to other positions or retired. For the next year, Luti and Shulsky not only would oversee war plans but would act aggressively to shape the intelligence product received by the White House."

      In July 2003, "due to ever increasing criticism about the role OSP has played in the gathering of intelligence and the conclusions made to justify the war with Iraq, the Pentagon changed the name of OSP back to its original name, Northern Gulf Affairs Office."
      ______________________________________

      http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_200...

      2001-2003: US Intelligence Bases Assessements on Information Provided by INC The US intelligence community—most notably the intelligence gatherers working in the Pentagon offices under Douglas Feith (see September 2002) —bases several of its intelligence assessments concerning Iraq on information offered by the Iraqi National Congress (INC) and by Iraqi defectors provided by the INC, despite warnings from the State Department and some CIA analysts that the lobbying group cannot be trusted. [New Yorker, 5/12/2003; Salon, 7/16/2003; Guardian, 7/17/2003; Inter Press Service, 8/7/2003; Independent, 9/30/2003; Mother Jones, 1/2004 Sources: Greg Thielmann, Unnamed administration official] The INC’s primary intelligence organization is its Information Collection Program (ICP), which conducts about 20 percent of all US intelligence’s verbal debriefings of Iraqi prisoners, insurgents, and defectors. [Bamford, 2004, pp. 336-337] Some of the INC’s intelligence on Iraq is reportedly funneled directly to the office of Vice President Dick Cheney by Francis Brooke, the DC lobbyist for the group. [Newsweek, 12/15/2003 Sources: Memo, Francis Brooke] Brooke will later acknowedge that the information provided by the INC was driven by an agenda. “I told them [the INC], as their campaign manager, ‘Go get me a terrorist and some WMD, because that’s what the Bush administration is interested in.’” [Vanity Fair, 5/2004, pp. 230] Brooke had previously worked for the Rendon Group, “a shadowy CIA-connected public-relations firm.” [Mother Jones, 1/2004]
      Entity Tags: Douglas Feith, Richard (“Dick”) Cheney, Francis Brooke, Frank Gaffney, Office of Special Plans
      Category Tags: Alleged Al-Qaeda Ties, Politicization of Intelligence, Alleged WMDs, Office of Special Plans

    • 3 years ago
  • keithponder
  • flyingkick
    • 0
      flyingkick  
    • At this point, all of her criticisms are just commentary.

      If she was still in mi5, her accusations would've been more effective. She should have come out then, when it mattered most.

    • 3 years ago
  • montesooma
  • HolyCity2012
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • flyingkick
    • 0
      flyingkick  
    • montesooma:

      Ahmad was misquoted. He wasn't talking about blowing up the whole country of Israel, he was advocating removing the regime. Western nations talk about removing regimes all the time.

      What's up with the pic of Baxter?

    • 3 years ago
  • oblivious
  • MrRah
    • 0
      MrRah  
    • Did we make mistakes after 9-11...yes. However, the biggest mistake I have seen is the lack of thoughtful options on how to deal with the post 9-11 era. There is a lot of blaming going on. There are several groups at fault...and I am sorry, most likely, you are a part of it.

      Trying to bring down a system only to build up a less effective system makes no sense. Please read the declaration of independence for more insight on that. I read the post on here and I am amazed at the brilliance of the posters. Instead of being drive-by bloggers...we should join and truly put forth measures that will change this country for the better.

    • 3 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • Mark701
    • 0
      Mark701  
    • When thoughtful people start to place events like 9/11 into perspective the healing has begun.

      As bad as that day was it never warranted the reaction that it got. Clearly the terror effect was amplified by the Bushies for there own political ends and I don't think anyone other than the 25 percenters will deny this.

      Whenever anyone trys to tell me that our reaction was appropriate I always bring up the Cold War. For almost 50 years the world stood on the brink of nuclear armeggedon. It would have taken no more than 30 minutes to end all life on earth. Still no president during that time felt the need to abbrogate our civil rights, limit habeus corpus, illegally spy on 300,000,000 Americans, legalize torture or start illegal wars to "protect us". In time more people will begin to acknowledge this and when they do the mere mention of George W. Bush will yield a response of shame and revulsion.

    • 3 years ago
  • dankitti
    • 0
      dankitti  
    • I think it's safe to say that you could judge your own reaction to 9/11 for what it is, and not think in overly generalized terms.

    • 3 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
    • 0
      DeliaTheArtist  
    • I agree that Iraq was a misplaced reaction to 9/11, but living in New York I can say our reaction was exactly as you would expect it to be when a piece of our history and thousands of people are obliterated- a reaction of horror, pain, confusion, anger... The Bush Administration used that fear and pain to manipulate the American people.

    • 3 years ago
  • HolyCity2012
  • DeliaTheArtist
    • 0
      DeliaTheArtist  
    • DeliaTheArtist:

      What the hell are you talking about?

      "you and everyone who thinks like you are compramising my libirty.

      you think with your heart not with your head...
      You are dangerous to your fellow Americans / we the people...."

      These personal attacks are unwarranted. I think with my head much more than heart, but New Yorkers were angry and hurt that day, that's all I was saying, especially if you or someone you know lost someone in the attack. (My best friend's father is a NYC Firefighter, nuff said.)

      It's pretty obvious that Bush used fear to manipulate the public, even if you thought Bush was shady from the start-so get off your fucking high horse and take a look around.
      I'm not a threat to your liberty nor am I "dangerous" to fellow Americans- in fact you know nothing about me, so why the hell would you say anything like that? You can shove all that hateful nonsense up the place you got it from!

      9/11 I was in my senior year of high school. I went to a program called Walkabout for that year, and ironically we were supposed to be having a "cultural celebration" lunch. My friend and I made flan which we totally screwed up. The lunch never took place because the attacks happened first.

      edit: What happen to all of your posts, holy? All I see are dots now...

    • 3 years ago
  • HolyCity2012
  • ChrisWT
    • 0
      ChrisWT  
    • The reaction level is equal to the level of Sept 11th and in the present of that time Sept 11th was extreme. Hind sight is always 20/20.

    • 3 years ago
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  
    • September 11 was a black op. The war in Iraq was based on conscious lies crafted by unelected officials (nest of Zionists) from the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans.

      These are the same Zionists that are giving us the same bullshit about imaginary Iranian nukes and "wiping Israel off the map." Wake up people, you've been conned several times over.

    • 3 years ago
  • MrRah
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  
    • maasanova:

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Office_of_Special_Plans

      Paul Dundes Wolfowitz, OSP architect
      Douglas Jay Feith, Undersecretary of Defense (OSP reports to)
      Steven A. Cambone, Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence
      Abram N. Shulsky, Director of Office of Special Plans
      William Luti, Undersecretary of Defense who "oversees the OSP"

      "As the momentum for war [in Iraq] began to build in early 2002, Paul D. Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith beefed up the intelligence unit and created an Iraq war-planning unit in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia Affairs section, run by Deputy Undersecretary of Defense William Luti, under the rubric Office of Special Plans, or OSP; the new unit's director was Abram N. Shulsky. By then, David Wurmser had moved on to a post as senior adviser to Undersecretary of State John Bolton, yet another neocon, who was in charge of the State Department's disarmament, proliferation, and WMD office and was promoting the Iraq war strategy there. Shulsky's OSP, which incorporated the secret intelligence unit, took control, banishing veteran experts-including Joseph McMillan, James Russell, Larry Hanauer, and Marybeth McDevitt-who, despite years of service to NESA, either were shuffled off to other positions or retired. For the next year, Luti and Shulsky not only would oversee war plans but would act aggressively to shape the intelligence product received by the White House."

      In July 2003, "due to ever increasing criticism about the role OSP has played in the gathering of intelligence and the conclusions made to justify the war with Iraq, the Pentagon changed the name of OSP back to its original name, Northern Gulf Affairs Office."
      ______________________________________

      http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_200...

      2001-2003: US Intelligence Bases Assessements on Information Provided by INC The US intelligence community—most notably the intelligence gatherers working in the Pentagon offices under Douglas Feith (see September 2002) —bases several of its intelligence assessments concerning Iraq on information offered by the Iraqi National Congress (INC) and by Iraqi defectors provided by the INC, despite warnings from the State Department and some CIA analysts that the lobbying group cannot be trusted. [New Yorker, 5/12/2003; Salon, 7/16/2003; Guardian, 7/17/2003; Inter Press Service, 8/7/2003; Independent, 9/30/2003; Mother Jones, 1/2004 Sources: Greg Thielmann, Unnamed administration official] The INC’s primary intelligence organization is its Information Collection Program (ICP), which conducts about 20 percent of all US intelligence’s verbal debriefings of Iraqi prisoners, insurgents, and defectors. [Bamford, 2004, pp. 336-337] Some of the INC’s intelligence on Iraq is reportedly funneled directly to the office of Vice President Dick Cheney by Francis Brooke, the DC lobbyist for the group. [Newsweek, 12/15/2003 Sources: Memo, Francis Brooke] Brooke will later acknowedge that the information provided by the INC was driven by an agenda. “I told them [the INC], as their campaign manager, ‘Go get me a terrorist and some WMD, because that’s what the Bush administration is interested in.’” [Vanity Fair, 5/2004, pp. 230] Brooke had previously worked for the Rendon Group, “a shadowy CIA-connected public-relations firm.” [Mother Jones, 1/2004]
      Entity Tags: Douglas Feith, Richard (“Dick”) Cheney, Francis Brooke, Frank Gaffney, Office of Special Plans
      Category Tags: Alleged Al-Qaeda Ties, Politicization of Intelligence, Alleged WMDs, Office of Special Plans

    • 3 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • maasanova
    • 0
      maasanova  
    • maasanova:

      It's ok, all I did was copy and paste this time. I do know a fair amount about Iraq, and I know a lot about 9/11 because have been researching and sharing information with authors and researchers close to three years now.

      But you know, you don't have to agree with me or even take my word for it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

    • 3 years ago
  • eden49
    • 0
      eden49  
    • Owwmykneecap:

      Pearl Harbour doesn't count. I'm still trying to get my head around that. I suppose you're a pupil of the school of thought that "The Holocaust" didn't happen on US soil, SWTF. Speak to their families, they might disagree, or, for that matter, what families they have left. I know I have diverged from original point, but I had to comment. Wherever we are, whatever we believe in, a loss of a loved one is not explained away geographically. We're all members of the human race, or did I get that wrong. Just rattle around in those halls on your own.

    • 3 years ago
  • montesooma
    • 0
      montesooma  
    • He is obviously talking about the british response to 9/11, I guess he would have prefered the apathetic response like spain and other countries which in fact just empowers the terrorists!
      The USA response was in fact handled with kid gloves to avoid giving the libs anything they could use for political posturing.

    • 3 years ago
  • montesooma
  • flyingkick
    • 0
      flyingkick  
    • montesooma:

      Defying the UN and invading a country, pushing the Patriot Act through with death threats, and bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age was the USA reaction.

      That's the exact opposite of handling something with kid gloves.

      The libs were dealt with by using a brand of McCarthyism- anyone against Bush's policies were either terrorists or weak leaders.

    • 3 years ago
  • emmahill
    • 0
      emmahill  
    • I don't think the public response to that terrible day, was an overreaction.

      We could not get to grips with the ferocious hate that made those people use planes as bombs. I think we all lost a little faith in the human race that day and that's where the fear stems from.

      I do hate how politicians have exploited that fear since the attacks though. I don't like being manipulated.

    • 3 years ago
  • oblivious
    • 0
      oblivious  
    • emmahill:

      The public reaction wasn't an overreaction? So when people, in a frenzy to retaliate, attacked anyone who even remotely looked Muslim -including Sikhs and Indian women- that was just coincidence? How about when a friend of mine, whom I was standing with at the time, had a lovely string of insults and thrown at her, topped off with a wad of spit that almost hit her? You're right, we all did lose faith in humanity, but for two different reasons.

    • 3 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
    • 0
      DeliaTheArtist  
    • emmahill:

      Some people certainly did overreact in that way, but some people were working against that new hate mentality.

      I remember quite clearly my best friend starting to talk like that. Her dad is a NYC firefighter; they lost a lot of friends and everyone was very distraught. We had a big fight when she started to talk all crazy racist, but hers was just a knee jerk reaction to loss. Your friend shouldn't have had to deal with that kind of bullshit and misplaced hatred.

    • 3 years ago
  • BenK
    • 0
      BenK  
    • It's Great to hear this from such a high-ranking and respected member of our society.

      I completely agree with what she has to say, and believe not only the government, but now our entire culture has overreacted to 'the terrorist threat' since 9/11.

      The Iraq war aside, I was incredibly impressed by Tony Blair's reaction to the 7/7 attacks. He flew back to London, said what needed to be said, then in effect ignored them, and carried on with what he saw was the greater issue at the time: the G8 summit.

      The best weapon against terrorism is ignorance. If we respect thoose who suffer in attacks, but carry on afterward as though these things never happen, it wouldn't be an effective tool of political power, and people would stop doing that.

      The more we fear terrorism, and the more we retaliate, the longer it will continue to thrive.

      Ben K.

    • 3 years ago
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • BenK
    • 0
      BenK  
    • BenK:

      No I didn't and acknowledge that it would be alot harder to 'move on' if I had.
      I'm responding to the "put a (h) in your msn name to show you remember everyone who died yesterday in 9/11" fad that came around, and similar unrelated, but promoting practices.

      If you are directly affected, then I'm not speaking to you. If you are not directly affected, and somehow tried to associate yourself (because your 'american' or because 'i work in the world trade centre....in San Diego', then I was talking to you.

      Ben K.

    • 3 years ago
  • MrRah
  • mischabarrett
    • 0
      mischabarrett  
    • It's refreshing to have somebody from outside the very political infighting she criticises to pass comment on this.

      Our politicians need to grow up and learn to tackle problems like terrorism without using it as a tool to win 4 extra votes in their constituency.

      Do you think politicians, the media - and ordinary people's - response to 9/11 was an overreaction?

    • 3 years ago
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