The Beguiled

As to law, church and opinion I have this to say:

Law may or may not support an issue but that doesn’t define the accuracy or origin of choice or the correctness of things such as being gay. Laws are put into place generally as we all know by the majority. This only establishes the opinions or perspectives of the masses.

Stoning used to be the punishment for certain offenses or presumed offenses established by the law of the time. As time passes, laws begin to evolve as do people. As more is known on issues of concern, evolution takes place. Nothing new has been created just more is understood.

More often than not, roadblocks generally stand in the way and impede the progress of such things. It seems many roadblocks are conjured up by various religious views or beliefs. The invoking of God makes it so; thus, any in contrast are subjected to enormous scrutiny and persecution.

In times past victims were generally put to death by means such as stoning, burning at the stake, impalement, decapitation, and even crucifixion. This was of course God’s bloody work carried out by the warriors of God or “Christians;” the irony in this is at times it went both ways. I am fairly certain if the laws were not against such methods of coercion, the masses would still go to these extremes as they bludgeon their way to heaven.

Many if not most opinions are forged by what we have been told or taught to believe. The ugly little gnome I call “organized religion” is nestled somewhere beneath most discriminations and the nasty little devises used to keep them alive.

Laws cannot determine the chemistry that is triggered in one’s genetics and neither can Christians. Nature claims this role and man has deceitfully stolen claim to it long ago and pasted it in a book cloaked under the guise of God. Discrimination and hatred are parts of the bitter pill God is to swallow in exchange for granting us our free agency to extend ourselves on others.

Jesus Christ should have given his church a specific name. Mankind has established so many of their own religions in his name. All or most claim to be and/or have the truth. I believe much truth is interwoven but the truth, total truth has generally gone awry.

Topkitty

We have a right to be smart but we are born with what ever IQ capacity we have. We can educate but we are still limited by the potential of our IQ. We are fat, we are skinny, we are tall, we are short, some of us can sing and some cannot.

Some of these things can be manipulated to various degrees and yet why are we not all the same? Why is each member of any given family different, (twins being an exception)? Why are they not all identical like clones of each other? It is all about what is inside of the genes. Just to be clear, I didn’t say jeans.

Religion has tried to make being gay out to be simply a decision. Religion should try and make Autism, Alzheimer’s, Down syndrome, old age, baldness, race, and a host of many other things into a choice. I can hardly wait until they do; just imagine, at that point in time we can all get together and simply pray all of them away. Science can take a sabbatical and simply let us pray!

The truth is that some things get switched, altered, blended, or in any case determined during the genetic composition. This is why some people are more subject to certain illnesses and or physical characteristics. It is not religion or lack there of, it is not a choice or a preference it is plain and simply what you were born with.

You cannot find yourself attracted to the same sex; the chemistry is not there! Gays cannot find themselves attracted to the opposite sex as the chemistry for them is not there! The feelings of attraction they feel is identical to the feelings that you and I feel for those that we feel it for.

In the animal kingdom there are numerous cases of animals being gay. The problem here is they do not have access to cognitive thought as we humans do. If you were to tell them they are gay they wouldn’t understand and they wouldn’t change if you asked them to.

I highly doubt they will look between their legs to make their decision. The chemistry invoked by genetics will stimulate what is right for them within their brains and then it will be played out by their physical.

Gay is nothing more and nothing less than any of this.

Oh you couldn't be further from the truth, Ms Star if I strapped you to a rocket and shot you into outerspace. I am middle-aged, live in Sacramento CA,was born in Manhattan, have traveled all over the world several times. I own my own home, paid in full. I only visit my parents on holidays, they live thousands of mile away. I have no religious affiliation, it's to confining. My parents are open-minded, both are retired University professors. I care little for what you or anyone else choose to believe, free thinkers are like that. The last time I did an I dare ya, I was 8 years old and swallowed a bug. I didn't like the taste, and probably wouldn't like the taste of twat. Besides the bug probably has more nutritional value. I am free to say what I will. I will not accept your challenge, nature has already done that for me. We are born with male and female genitalia, that and other physical features are the only thing that human's have no choice in. Pretty much everything else we do to a large degree is choice. It is not for me to prove that it is a choice, it's for you to prove that it is not. Hit me with some solid physical, tangible evidence I can ponder upon. Your batting zero, so far.

Oh Topkitty, Imma take a wild guess and say your about 19, 20. And you live in either Texas, Utah, or another SW state. Im just saying because you seem to have that kind of southwest thinking. Im also guessing you still live with your parents, go to church every sunday and maybe more, and have never been to a major US city in the north. My final guess is that your beliefs came from your parents, which is fine, but that was not your choice was it? You believe its a choice, fine. Prove it. Choose to be gay for a week. Its an experiment, you know, science-like. You want us to accept your beliefs right? Then stand up for your beliefs and PROVE its a choice. Thats my challenge to you. Im sure you will never accept it, because you believe its morally wrong, but you cant come right out and say that right? Because good girls like you dont say things like that. Dont spout your beliefs unless your ready to back them up.

It never ceases to amaze me how when people ardently desire something, it becomes a right. A want is not a right. I am equally amazed when people say they have no choice, when consummately almost everything we do is a choice.

If you truly believe you have no other choice in this matter, drop your pants and look between your legs. Tell me what you see? That is who you are, that is how you are born, that you had no choice in.

But our thoughts and patterns are solely a matter of choice. Am I saying don't be who you want to be? No, never! I am saying stop copping out, and be who you want to be without excuses. That's how you become strong and then you no longer feel victimized.

thanks donkeyfly69. I am so tired of people telling me that I am 'flaunting' my homosexuality in front of them, but in reality I just want to show my girlfriend the same affection as everyone else. Sometimes I am scared to kiss my girlfriend on the forehead, because of people like keviar, but it is a risk I am willing to take.

response to keviar (for some reason i can't reply)

"I am honestly homophobic."

it's always the homophobic ones that no one wants to hit on. and they're gay themselves

"As long as you don't hit on me or do your gay shit in public, im fine with that."

as long as you don't hit on me or do your straight shit in public, i'm fine with that. seriously, no more holding hands in public, giving your girlfriend flowers on valentine's day, straight couples on t.v. it's all too gross so just stop

Have you ever loved someone so deeply it nearly destroyed you when you lost them to an untimely death? It doesn’t matter whether it be human or pet; the feelings can be much the same.

There is a tremendous emptiness that consumes your heart, soul, and mind. Your chest feels as though it will implode, the gnawing from the inside is ever present, and escape is no where to be found. Comfort evades you giving the thought of your own death a profound sense of escape and relief.

If you have ever had this experience you find yourself elevated to a whole new level of understanding. All things big and small find their true place in the matters of significance. Your eyes are opened to what you have truly lost and your perspectives on the purpose and value of life become real.

I don’t know if this is a pure sense of God love but I do believe that he could care no less for any of his children. It doesn’t matter if any of his children are gay, rich, poor or of any color or race. His love for them is probably deeper than any love we can imagine. To say they are an abomination based on any of these definitions would be to accuse God of being less than God. From what I understand, his love is unconditional as is any parent worthy of the title. I believe Jesus taught with this level of love.

The God I choose to believe in is nothing less.

I love the dialog here. I just thought I'd throw that out.

There is so much that people could learned, but until these same people open there minds, values and ideals and only then will things start to change. When you are told by the church elders what you can or should believe in. The true teachings from the Bible is about Love and compassion for your fellow man. Slowly people are trusting there hearts and the love that is talked of in there Bible and not being force-feed the hate by the church leaders and ministers. The use of scare tactics to control the flock from the big bad wolf. That makes it very hard to see changes in people. Trust your heart, seek guidance in the word and consult true teachers of the lamb of god.

Saint Paul was a closet homosexual who hated himself for his homosexual impulses. He also feared and hated women. He is the biggest influence on Christianity and his writings constitute the bulk of the New Testament. In fact, Christianity is a misnomer - it should be called Paulanity.

The Christian Church accepted homosexuals and even homosexual marriages, all the way until the eighteenth century. I bet you didn't know that, adh1.

Just like here, we all write what we feel, think, or believe. Apparently we all come from different vantage points to some degree. During the time when the bible was being written a number of people were involved. They wrote of what they felt, thought and believed. Most if not all were inspired by the experiences of their time. What was written originally may or may not be what we have now.

Quite often you will find things written in the bible that are contradictive. Why is this? Many things are mystical and magical and seem quite impossible. So the question is whether or not God actually made those things happen. The next question would be why he did it then and not now.

I do believe in miracles as I have experienced some in my own life. My point here is that many things in the bible just don’t stack up. Throughout the bible God is always trying to get his people to believe.

Why did he all of the sudden quit using those mystical magical things used before to get his people to believe? Could it be that in the time of mystery and magic due to ignorance many of these things could have been written intentionally to sway humankind by someone else’s desires or agenda? I don’t necessarily mean the original authors but any who have dabbled with the writings since.

Based on my experiences I have come to the conclusion that being gay is not a choice. If this is so, then God would be a cruel God to do this to someone. This would make them to be an abomination in his eyes according to the bible. How unfair and unjust would that be? Why would he do that to his children whom he professes to love? I can’t imagine he would do this just so they could be tormented.

According to the bible, Satan teaches hate and not love. Thus hating gays or subjecting them to anything less than the rest of us is a form of hatred.

I am honestly homophobic. But i respect the rights of every individual. As long as you don't hit on me or do your gay shit in public, im fine with that.

is that the best you can say ?
boy ! oh thanks for the jerk compliment
i love you too ;o)

"We ALL OUR DIFFERENT HUMAN BEINGS."

Wow, you just summed everything everyone else was saying in one go.
Congratulations.

God never gave men the words to write the bible. That was Allah and Muhammad. The men who wrote the bible felt a deep love and impacted by the words of Christ and THEN wrote the bible.

Fact: you aren't as clever as you think you sound by using the word "fact" everywhere. It doesn't prove your point. It just makes you look like a pretentious jerk.

Little brother who was Gay he is dead now due to the Gay Life. You’re Quote. If he died of AIDS then he is not dead from being GAY, he is dead because of Man and the War machine and the making of Bio-weapon’s. Was he was Killed or beaten to death? Then I he’s dead. Dead because of HATE! To Love thy neighbors and Thou shall not kill, these are your religious writings from your Bible. He is dead because of ignorance and people like you. People that blame, the gay life and gay people for his death. 90% of the people I ran around with when. I was between 15 and 50 are dead, many due to Aids. Yet I blame no-one except man him or her self.

So many people are so mislead and being gay is your own fault. I had a little brother who was Gay he is dead now due to the Gay Life. Fact,
i miss my little brother. so does my family till this day. we all miss him. but as per God well
God Give him to us, God take him away. Simple and True. God Did write the Bible.
He gave Men the words to write into the Bible,
do you really think men can come up with
what the bible says .. the answer is No. so understanding the bible as it is written.
The Bible is hard for us humans to Understand, Fact. this is why the Bible is written into many forms - books due to the understanding of it.
We human beings can not fathem it and trying to understand it is hard. but, understand this.....
people are even harder to understand,
We ALL OUR DIFFERENT HUMAN BEINGS.
People Praise God and Worship him everyday
like everyone should do including me and you.
This is said in the Bible. so we should do it, but God gave ever Human Free Will
which means you have an Choice YES or No
and Satan the Devil knows this.
so its a Spritual War for your Soul. Fact !
I know this... I am going to Heaven to be happy with Jesus Christ and the Creator of ALL, and
away from Satan and Hell.
i made my choice, what about you.

I agree with the original post and Julius. Being gay is not a choice, and who are we for denying people their civil rights because of sexual orientation? It certainly is not fair.

On the subject of the Bible, I don't understand how people can follow it so closely when there are so many translations. Sure, some of the places are real (archaeological excavations in Israel have proven so) but the translations are so vague sometimes, interpretations are based completely on speculation.

I'm currently taking a religion class, and we just recently looked at passages from the New Testament and interpreted and speculated what could be between the lines. We spun complete stories out of one word. It leads me to wonder how rational people can follow this stuff when everyone can make their own interpretation. What becomes the true word of "God"? What you take from the Bible? What your clergymen say? Does any of it truly make sense?

I guess that's why we call it faith...it doesn't have to make sense.

Down through the ages, the bible has been rewritten and modified. How many times, nobody knows. Logical thinking about this matter can be enlightening.

To begin with, God did not write the bible, men did. In modern times we watch how so many people have so much to say. Current.com is a perfect example. We are free to write what ever we please. Quite often things are modified, manipulated, cut and pasted and or taken out of context.

It is foolishness to think this same type of activity has not taken place through out time.

Another example is how the laws of the land are changed and predominantly the influence involved is none other than religion or religious beliefs. Those in power, be it the masses or someone in control of the masses makes the decision of what shall be. The decisions or changes they make are based on their perceptions or their agendas and desires.

The things written in the bible as to this subject of being gay were written by people for the same reasons. They neither could understand it nor could they accept it. Thus they invoked God and condemned it. For any that felt uncomfortable around such things this became their whip. Stones became their weapon.

As in all writings, given enough time they may and probably will be tainted by the manipulations of man.

How many different versions of the bible are out there now? I have lost count.