More joining American military as jobs dwindle

"1.) They commit to the service of the welfare of the citizens of the "land of the free""

it's funny that land of the free is in quotes. we for sure are not free.

"5.) And, most importantly, that most come to realize that there are an incredible amount of assholes that are able to dump there leftist garbage onto our society with freedom, who are without a clue how fortunate they are. I'm a proud American and I love my country for which it stands, and those that feel otherwise can kiss my ass,"

leftist garbage stinks just as bad as rightist garbage. i know how fortunate i am, but i also know how much better life could be. i love my country, but not the way it stands as of now. i'm doing what i can to make it a better country. if you think that's garbage, then you are in no way a patriot

donkeyfly69, "and those that feel otherwise can kiss my ass," ...You chose to over look my closing comment, you silly socialist puppet.

i'm no fucking socialists. i'm soldier fighting for your freedom, but i'm sure you don't "really" care about soldiers or veterans pass the internet. if you're not a socialist puppet then why don't you give up your welfare, public education, and social security and take an oath?

I have served, long before you were born and I don't like your leftist views (yes I said leftist). I read enough of your comments to come to that conclusion,and if I'm wrong, I put forth my apology here and now. Otherwise STFU. My original comment stands.

i'm not leftist. i'm not rightist. i'm rational.

Keep working on it, you'll eventually become so. Out of the mouth flow the issues of life..

"you'll eventually become so."

become what?

Rational

your idea of rational isn't rational at all

When your intellect grows in proportion to your ego, than you may understand the concept and meaning of "rational" .

Yes . You are correct. Pravda. Americans have been dumdeb down. No more NEA members in our schools! Liberal teachers preach feel-good crap to our kids when they don't even know how to balance a checkbook themselves. Nor do they understand that if you sign a mortgage contract you have to pay the damn thing or else the economy will go bad and the military rolls will swell..

Oh my gosh! I am new to this site and I was really turned off by all of the ignorant comments and it saddens me to see where this country is headed. As a retired school teacher I can say that it is our teachers... not the Republicans that have been dumbing down our future leaders and students. Well done holyshiite!

Malcomsx, it is by deliberately overcrowding classes and underpaying teachers (which leads to most teachers being way below standard) that the Republicans have dumbed-down Americans.

Malcomsx, thanks. Thanks for teaching. Is your ex-husbands name Malcom? Why do so many people think that the Federal Government has anything at all to do with education? It's all abou parents. Period.

Hi Verotchka...School funding is primarily a local issue. Most districts won't pay a teacher enough to live in the district they teach. I do believe teachers should make more money, but I loved teaching and enjoyed my summer vacations. My classes were over crowded , but I took the time and interest in my students to ensure they received an excellent education. It seems like it is a local and teacher issue (not a Republican or Democrat issue). When was the last time the government fixed your problems?

Malcomsx, where do the funds for school funding come from originally? I remember reading how successive Republican governments have cut down on funding for education, for maintaining school buildings, etc. The local boards are dependent on how much the Feds allot to their state for education, are they not?

Jobs.

"God Bless America"?

how many products in your house say "made in china"?

So much so that active duty military outdonated to Obama 6 to 1 over McCain. Sorry to allow my pesky facts to interfere with your fiction.

Take pride in a country that doesn't give a rats ass about them. They lie, cheat, mislead, experiment, withhold needed supplies, provide substandard food and medical care.

Attitude follows leadership and the outgoing leadership SUCKED!!! Perhaps, just perhaps the incoming will do a better job.

Cruel world cantu....,waah, but, people who don't anything to change it but whine? What do you expect. cradle to grave babysitters? You whine about BUSH as if all the worlds problems were caused by him. This is childish blame mongering. I am sure BUSH will be the excuse when Obama gets over whelmed also.

"Take pride in a country that doesn't give a rats ass about them."

Coming from someone that probably relies on the govenrment to support them.

"They lie, cheat, mislead, experiment, withhold needed supplies, provide substandard food and medical care."

Last I checked I'm succesful at my job, haven't been lied to, cheated, not hurting for any "supplies", don't have substandard food, and have medical care when I need it because if you want these things you do what it takes to remain employed and provide for yourself and your family. I know the economy is tough right now but there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER in my mind that if I were laid off tomorrow that I could have another job within 24- 48 hours. It may not be my dream job and it may not even be a position commensurate with my experience but I'd at least be doing my part to pay my way. I've been laid off before and have never once collected a day of unemployment benefits. Hell, 9-11 is the reason I'm in the career field I'm in now. It sickens me to no end to see how people bitch, moan, complain, and hold their hands out for freebies in America. We have it better than any other country in this world and I believe with all my heart that if you can't successful in America you damn sure wouldn't be successful anywhere else. Take your ungrateful ass somewhere else if you truly feel this country has shit on you like you say.

"Attitude follows leadership and the outgoing leadership SUCKED!!! Perhaps, just perhaps the incoming will do a better job."

If your sole motivation of your attitude is who gets elected President, I got news for you, it's NEVER going to get better for you. Are you one of those that believe that Obama getting elected means that you'll always have a full tank of gas and won't ever have to make the payment on your car, house, or even credit cards? If you ever want to get ahead then you better get out there and start somewhere.

Thought we were having a discussion about military service...that is what my comments were directed towards.

@Katanajon...there is no denying that Bush created many problems that we are facing now. Is he to blame for everything. No....the whole of America allowed it.

@Liberal_Extinction...again, I was speaking strickly about soldiers and the military. Although I will touch on what you brought up.

Nope...I've never received government support. Am employed, pay my bills, scrape by when necessary, know how to stretch a dollar. Have in fact survived on one income for nine years while my children were small (children of which have the same father, whom I'm married to). (Just threw that in there to get your suspicions out of the way)

I often run across comments from you that portray a very poor view of my generation. The world is full of motivated, ambitious, intelligent young people who work damn hard to take care of themselves. There are people of all ages looking for government handouts. For you to paint with such a broad stroke doesn't bode well for you.

As far as the economic market is concerned...you and I have discussed that before. You think you'd find something in 24-48 hours, but you might be surprised.

Take my ungrateful ass somewhere else...

I've honestly considered it. I am disappointed in how this country has been run, not with the country as a whole. It is full of possibilities and potential. It can be great again.

I do not have illusions that Obama is going to make my life a fairytale. How he will do as president remains to be seen. I personally don't think he will enact the amount of change that we need. I did not vote for him. Do I "hope" like everyone else? Yes. Just as I would with whomever was elected.

Well good for you, it's pretty obvious that the picture you paint now and the picture you painted in your 1st response are not the same thing. I don't know what generation you are but we're probably not too far apart in age. I'm not sure how old you are but I'm in my lower 30's, I'm assuming you're relatively close to that with 4 kids still under your care. I think that most people if they slowed down and looked at their situation would find that we as Americans don't NEED for much, we may want more than we have but from a survival standpoint we have it pretty damn good. It's a shame how many people have blurred the lines between NEED and WANT, and it's probably also the root of the problems in society more than any government program, oversight, or lack there of. How many of those in this country that would claim to be poverty stricken still have a car, roof over their head, air conditioning/ heating, a computer, a TV, cable, phone service, etc? Those are NOT the people that I'd want my charitable contributions or government redistributed wealth going to, I like to act more locally and donate via organizations that I can actually see NEEDS being fulfilled. Too many government programs are abused by people who'd rather collect a free "check" than have to go to work to earn a little bit more. I know the conversation started about military service but claiming that you're in country that doesn't deserve a sense national pride is absolutely ridiculous. We've really got it pretty good here even if the "other guy" is in the white house. I know I'm hoping that Obama does well for the country even though I didn't vote for him, he's still going to be my President too.

The picture I painted in my first comment remains the same...

Once enlisted in the military the government is pretty much free to do whatever the hell they'd like to you. I'll list some examples.

Lie: they vacinate soldiers without telling them what it is.
Cheat: stop loss
W/hold supplies: needed protection gear
Substandard food: they receive products marked "for animal and military consumption only"
Medical care: gulf war syndrome

My point was that governmental actions demonstrate that they don't take pride in soldiers.

I'm 33, two kids.

Sure...I'd agree that the lines between NEED and WANT have been blurred. Why though? Has it been set up? Manufactored? I think you can be poverty stricken and still have a car, a place to live, heating and phone service. Those are basic needs. Things that you can't survive without in this society. As far as internet, TV, cable, etc...those are luxuries that are often taken for granted. It's often difficult to down grade a lifestyle that one you've become accustomed to and two everyone else is living. I've seen it time and time again here on Current. People talk about the astronomical unemployment and why aren't people getting jobs at McDonalds. Then they'll turn around and say derogatory things about people who work at McDonalds. Which is it? Get a job no matter what it is or you're worthless because you work there? People need to have compassion. Understand that most people do the best that they can with what they have.

Most government programs are abused because it's allowed. The systems are not designed go give people a hand up. They are designed to make people reliant on them. What motivation is there really to find something else when you can make more money that way? Why are there no limits? Why is there no repayment? The system is set up for failure.

"Lie: they vacinate soldiers without telling them what it is.
Cheat: stop loss
W/hold supplies: needed protection gear
Substandard food: they receive products marked "for animal and military consumption only"
Medical care: gulf war syndrome"

Well, I can say that when I was in the miltary I was never refused an answer when I asked what shot I was getting, and yes, they do make a pin (airgun) cushion out of you.

Hard to say on the stop loss, I was actually slated for stop loss and told, don't plan on going anywhere right now. 2 weeks before my terminal leave date, it was lifted. While I'll admit I was frustrated by the possibility, I don't think I ever felt cheated. I signed up for it and knew full well it was a possibility, the military talks about this in briefings even during basic training.

I've never actually seen anything marked "for animal and military consumption only". Not really sure what to say there.

Gulf War Syndrome, no experience with it, hard to claim to be an expert.

Did you feel that the government "had your back"? Like they were concerned for your well being? Do you feel like you were told the truth...if/when you asked about stuff.

My opinion is formed not through military service of my own, but from that of family members. My brother in law retired from the Marines last October. He and I have had extensive conversations about this sort of stuff.

I also don't feel that they provide enough care where metal health issues are concerned as well as reacclimating to civilian life.

Sorry for the poor grammar, btw. I get on a roll and delete and retype. Apparently I'm not a very good proof reader. Lol

I honestly did feel good about how we were treated by the government. Granted, I think the military is under paid considering the situations they are put in but it is an amount that you are able to live on. Once again though, that was a fact that I knew BEFORE I ever signed the dotted line. I'll admit I never sought any kind of mental healthcare nor did I have any problems re-acclimiating myself to civilian life. While I'm sure there are shortcomings I also believe many soldiers now a days are innundated with things to complain about from the far left. Many of their lips are loaded with "bitch about this" before any injustice has been committed towards them.

What about the injustice as a whole? Whether or not it's happening to you personally...it is happening.

As far as people enlisting with preconceived things to complain about. If you know about them previous to signing on the dotted line then that's your own damn fault. If however you're not aware, then you do have something to raise a stink about.

About innundated from the far left...Are you sure about those mental health issues? =P

No shit?
Would you want untrained kids fighting instead? Don't be stupid- war is necessary.

Don't be stupid- war is unnecessary.

I noticed that alot of people would rather bitch than do something constructive. Help yourself if you can possibly do it, then help the guy next to you if you can.

Why not?
Bitching about shit gets no one anywhere.

You can't help yourself? You are upset?
REALLY UPSET?
If you have serious concerns contact CONGRESS.
And any other organizations that might have interests in what you are upset about.

Very few people actually contact congress. Most just bitch. (shrugs)

But if I can't have money and power, bitching can get me sympathy.

F*ck sympathy. Go tell your troubles to the Xmas Bunny.

There will be people who think that what GW did is just fine, but I am not one of them. No fiscally responsible president would fight a very expensive, unnecessary war, with borrowed money and give the richest Americans a tax break.
GW was nothing but a crook. He and Madoff have the same soul.

The troops should be supported because they have chosen to serve their country. It is the political leaders who use or misuse that service and should subsequently be or not be supported.

so did the nazis (surely you knew that was coming).

seriously though, why aren't soldiers personally accountable for their actions?

A country's leaders are (or should be) collectively responsible for its soldiers actions. Sadly, with the implementation of more and more private mercenaries, that is not the case.

how do private mercenaries differ morally from public mercenaries?

you really think the statement 'just following orders' absolves them from personal accountability?

There are always exceptions. I'll stand on my statement that ultimately, a country's leader is responsible for its military's actions.

private mercenaries make around 100k for a nine month deployment. Soldier make around half that for 12 months there. Thats one main difference.

alright, but that's hardly convincing and doesn't explain why the military should be glorified, particularly if they're mere tools of the commander-in-chief. if they don't bear responsibility, they don't bear credit either. from what i gather from your argument, they're essentially just drones.

and clay, that's not exactly a moral distinction.

When my grandfather received a 21 gun salute, and Taps was played at his funeral for his service as an officer during WWII, he deserved that small piece of glory.

That we have had a host of presidents who have abused the trust and code of honor of the military should not fall on the soldiers.

You're sounding very ungrateful. Our soldiers are the ones who won our freedom and fought our wars while we stood here watching. They often get screwed by the government on deployment terms and benefits. They still join despite all the violence and liberals telling them so- knowing that someone has to do the job. We can sit down and talk all day about this but either way someone is getting their hands dirty with work.

In recent years the military has been misused and made tools for major corporations, but don't take away your respect for that. Yes Nazi's followed orders- which was why they were glorified in Axis countries. It's a intra-national chore for a country's citizens to support their troops- because of the fact that even though some might not support the war- they still offer their life to fight for their country.

To me, "support the troops," should mean support the best health care for them, living wages, and good retirement plans. Also not supporting wars that kill them needlessly is really supporting them. They should use their skills only when necessary and unnecessary wars like the Iraq war that Bush started, sent many to their deaths. Something that GW Bush does not seem to reflect upon a great deal.

"why should the "troops" be supported exactly?"

Even to those who may not agree with Americas pre-emptive military stance you should be thankful to all soldiers throughout history that died giving you the right to act like assholes without fear of repercussion. Without those troops you wouldn't be able to post anonymously on some website questioning why they should be supported. If that's not reason enough I could go on, but you should get the point right there.

this is what's disturbing to me. i'm constantly told i should be grateful, that THEY do the fighting whilst i sit back and complain.

but should there ever be a necessary war, one that actually involves fighting to preserve my freedom in a true sense and not just as rhetoric, i would enlist myself. in fact, i don't think being a soldier should be a specialized occupation. i think universal conscription sounds like a great idea.

i'm sick of hearing about these violent, ugly, corrupt institutions that i should be 'grateful' for, whether it's the military or police or corporations or whomever. if this sort of power was more dispersed, if people as individual civilians had more responsibility and more of a stake in national defense, personal defense, economic stability, etc., we wouldn't experience the sorts of problems that we do.

but no, i have to be grateful to "them" because "they" do my dirty work. but i don't want that. i want everyone to take equal shares of the dirty work. that way, if we find the dirty work isn't necessary, we can collectively refuse to do it.

I support the troops more than you know my friend; I support the wise, judicious use of our troops.

That's awful. Sorry.
I know people that were in the service that while serving had a dui. Oh well.

I served, as did my father before me. And I'm glad for it. I was lucky, I got to pick my MOS because of test scores (and education) and the branch of the military that I wanted to serve in.

I was never on a front line, and would never be put near one, that might sound like I wasn't doing something critical, but there are reasons for even things like that. I would have loved to stay in longer but I had to leave due to medical reasons.

Yeah, I support our troops and pray for their return too.

"I was never on a front line, and would never be put near one, that might sound like I wasn't doing something critical, but there are reasons for even things like that."

every part of the military is important; from infantry to paper pushers.

"Yeah, I support our troops and pray for their return too."

I like yur point of view. Or point of aim. Its definitely going to be in Afgahnistan though. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS-----------Patrick

Peace is the only way

Peace is only the time between war.

LOL make bush permanent? lol Its too early in the day to drink.

Velma, that pigs whole goal was to destroy the middle class, because democracy can not really function without a middle class.
Do you think that priviledged poof ball wants real democracy? No. He gave the greated breaks to the upper 1 percent and during a war when people are supposed to sacrifice.
He flew over New Orleans and Lyndon Johnson went to New Orleans during the terrible hurricane that also flooded in the late 60s. Johnson landed in a helicopter and had a bull horn and he said "I am your president and I am here to help you." He did that as soon as the winds made landing safe.

Compare that to cowardly GW who got out of going to nam and was partying with McCain while N.O. was dieing.

They were calling it the "back door draft" a few months ago.

Best of luck to you.

"it's too bad that the war is suppose to be ending soon."

wtf? who told you that?

and why would the war ending be a bad thing?

hm...I guess that does sound kind of bad. I don't actually like that the war is still going on, but I think it's bad because after the war is over...what are all these people going to do with their time? since they won't have a war to fight.
And doesn't Obama oppose this war? Doesn't he wanna end it or something?...I don't really follow American politics...plus I'm not even american so...yea. forgive me

uhh...yeah it's cool

obama does support the war, he voted for it and is planning on sending in more troops

if the war was to end, there are plenty of jobs that soldiers can do back home (if they meet the requirements). military isn't just fighters, there are a lot of other jobs involved. in addition to the fact that they have to be ready in case something else happens

...still waiting...

High unemployment rates coupled with decreased educational opportunities compel young people to look toward the military as a source of education and training.

Not that they're forced into military service, just that they feel it's their only option.

If you want to find out how our military has been used to prop up the corporate elite and to make it possible for the corporations to have slave labor in Mexico and Latin America, live there a while and hear what the people there have to tell you. Unless you take higher history courses at the univrsity, you won't know the truth from your basic history courses or high school history.
There are reasons why they hate us.

I would serve my country for a just war, but not one to enrich corporations or one that is based on a lie.

I served, as did my father before me. And I'm glad for it. I was lucky, I got to pick my MOS because of test scores (and college education) and the branch of the military that I wanted to serve in.

I was never on a front line, and would never be put near one, that might sound like I wasn't doing something critical, but there are reasons for even things like that. I would have loved to stay in longer but I had to leave due to medical reasons.

I can go to sleep knowing that our unit went beyond the call of duty during many operations. And it was good. Bless our troops.

What freedoms have YOU as an American lost in the last 8 years? Seriously, answer the question without some bullshit about the US gov't tapping your phone line, they don't give 2 shits what you have to say unless you're talking to someone overseas in a suspect area. Quite frankly if you are carrying on conversation with someone in one of those areas, I hope they are listening in. Once again, what rights have you lost?