Why feminists are less religious - Guardian News

^'d Thank you!

You don't work at Current. They require their employees to have a certain degree of literacy, and you fall far short of the mark.

Did you post this story ?

Just like old times , when the christian hoard descended on the pagan greek temples destroying their statues and artifacts , the more sacred the site , the more brutal the destruction . Thank you . For telling me exactly what we are dealing with . At least you are honest about not being interested in other peoples perspectives . In my experience , there are different brands of religious people . Most dangerous are the zealots . They have a burden of cognitive dissonance , that they keep thrusting on to others . It is they who wish to kill the unbelievers . Because , it is they who do not believe . They desperately need to believe . But the religion , does not really speak to their heart . So they are stuck . In torment , until they destroy the unbeliever or convert them . The conflict is real , they just project it outward . You have to find your own connection to the divine , or it . means . nothing . NOTHING , no matter how you try to convince yourself , it will not sing to you , the way it should . Not the way you deserve . Unlearn , all that you have learned . Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder , and so is the GOD/FIRE within . If beauty is there , so will it be . If joy is there , so will it be . If compassion is there , so will it be . If you are tormented by others UNbelief , the conflict is within YOU . We are all one . So your DISconnection with the divine spark of life is an illusion . You do not feel it , because your dogma says you MUST find it elsewhere . You see ? Dogma is a trick to steal you power . It was always with you ... and only you .

I'm sorry, did I miss where he said he works at Current? What's up with all the personal crap on this site? Is anyone going to discuss the article? Does anyone have anything intelligent to say?

There is more than enough evidence that the moderators should read and do something about. The Lexi individual has already admitted (remember the comment that is now hidden for review) that he is instructing others to create various accounts all for the purpose of heckling you and this enclave of fools are teaming up to vote down people’s comments for no logical reason. Pathetic. They cannot construct cogent arguments to support their case so they collaborate in the shadows against people. How the moderators continue to let this occur even though he has admitted this is beyond me. New aliases being created as we speak... I’m sure.

That's the best, most succinct comment yet.

smart. enjoyed. +^d

^'d I did a double-take at "Founding Foremothers". OMG, you so RAWWWWK!!

Thank you Kitten! :)

That's because in the "old days" we only lived to be 35, LOL
You were at your peak by then.

Lol!

Voted up .

^'d Well stated, per usual. You rock and stuff.

That depends on how you interpret it. First century Christians honored the women amongst them. It was the following oppressive generations who

^'d Exactly. It's time for humanity to outgrow religion in the way a child outgrows Santa Claus. The whole invisible sky fairy thing is just kind of embarrassing...

Today's Christians are thoroughly horrible to women, trying to legislate us back to the Dark Ages.

Right on! +^d!

I think your mother dropped you on your head either too often, or not often enough.

XXXXX edit XXXXX

Oooooh, I was a bad kitten! I'm sorry, Mrs. Natty, I don't really believe you dropped the General on his head.

What did he say that was incorrect?

Well, you are certainly right about your opinion being humble.

1) Many feminists did not get what they want like this person purports and just disappear. There are still gross disparities in society that need to be addressed. And many feminists from the 60s and 70s and so on are still around trying to provide some resolution for those disparities.
2) This person’s argument somehow devolved into lesbianism and then to butch and femme lesbians as if to say that there is and was some causal link between being a feminist and lesbian.
3) This comment has under and overtones of sexism and a touch of homophobia.

You should attempt to educate me as too how my opinion and hypothiesis and speculation were wrong instead of trying to slander.

I made sure to clearly express my ideas as strictly opinion and hypothesis and speculation , if you got something constructive to say then im open to listen otherwise shut the fuck up.

there is a difference between a arguement and a hypotheisis and speculation , furthermore in the 90's many "Feminists" were bandwagonist's doing it because it was cool at the time and did not have a real dedication to the cause so it required very little for the them to become satisfied with progress and to move on to other things in their lives.

There you go with your propaganda again , overtones of sexism and a touch of homophobia smh lol.

Your speculative hypothetical argument is so absurd. Do you think about what you’re saying before you write it? Why even bring up lesbianism? What does that have to do with anything? All you did here was provide the banal stereotype of the lesbian feminist often used by the anti-feminists to discredit them. Oh yea… that is not sexist and homophobic in the slightest. Oh please…

I think you are correct about the way feminists have changed . They have softened . I do not know any like the old school ones , not even the old school ones ....

Clearly he has made some one angry .... It is a badge of honor , to make those angry who have no justifiable reason for their position , other than dogma or tradition .

"feminism as we knew it in the 90's..."

Are you a man or a woman? You presume to know a lot about feminism, but truth is in the experience of being female in what is still a man's world. I was 9 years old at the time of the Roe v Wade ruling and have grown up with feminism, its progress, the opposition to it, and its backlash, at every step along the way. Sexism is still rampant, and those who fight it don't always call themselves feminists anymore, due to the tiresome habit of the right to use the term "feminazi". If you haven't walked a mile in these shoes, you'll never understand the scope of the problem, just as I would never presume to understand the depth of the racism problem that still permeates American culture. Feminism has not been in decline at all, but rather has met with brutal opposition in the right's attacks on Affirmative Action, and defunding of the EEOC.

"changed their minds to go for those rights they desire or desired through a different approach outside feminism."

A woman who pursues equal rights THROUGH ANY MEANS is, by definition, a feminist. Feminism is not a club. There is no secret handshake. The right would like to use "feminist" as a derogatory label, as they do with "liberal", but guess what, we're taking THAT word back, too.

"what we used to know as feminism , is not the same machine that was studied in this article."

Feminism is simply the quest for equality, and the approach to obtaining equal rights is naturally going to evolve and adapt to address the current political climate. The goal, however, is the same. It is not up to one group to define feminism for all women, and the authors of the Guardian's article made a critical mistake in their call for feminists to take a survey on religion. A better approach would have been to take a random sampling of women across the entire political and socio-economic spectrum, and interview them about their VIEWS on feminist issues, not try to pigeonhole them as self-identified feminists. Some women avoid that word, due to the right having demonized it as I mentioned before. From a wider pool of women, not just Guardian readers, the 40% lesbian statistic, which is ludicrous, falls by the wayside, and therefore, so does PART of the apparent trend toward rejection of religion.

Feminism, as the promotion of equality, depends on the cooperative efforts of the majority of women, both those who are activists, and those who generally avoid the conflict but do come out to the polls to support women's issues.

"As there are masculine and feminine oriented lesbians , I would speculate that feminism provides a unique outlet for those of the masculine orientation more so than the feminine type to find and express themselves."

On the contrary, "butch" lesbians are often unfairly accused of being "wannabe" men. Do you even know any lesbians? I lived in SF for 15 years, and even had a girlfriend for a while, but I would certainly not claim to be an expert on gay culture, which is very complex, and has its own issues with religion.

In going back and forth between your comments and the original article, I have to say I find the article to be seriously lacking, and you do have valid questions, though I disagree with your conclusions. Ultimately, though, I'm going to walk back the "dropped on your head" comment. I apologize for that. I've come to understand that you really did make an effort to understand the article and....I might kinda like you after all. What a strange world.

The back and forth between yourself and generality has been great.

I think you both have great points.

I stand corrected for a poor choice of words . What i meant , was , that i did not ever see them as unjustifiably angry or mean . Just like Pat Robertson there are a few fruit loops , but far fewer than one might expect . What i do suspect , is that some male persons are threatened by assertiveness in females like that , for what ever reason . It might be a shock seeing assertiveness where it was least expected ( though men do it all the time ) . Naturally such a man would point fingers and use words like "hate" and "angry" . How dare she ask for what we take for granted ?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Assertiveness in women is startling to some people- other women sometimes become nervous, worried that they will share in the repercussions of the other woman's outspokenness through a kind of guilt by association, while some men (NOTE to guys- I said SOME) feel their *presumed* authority has been challenged.

While it can be annoying to deal with doormats and boors, there is a much more insidious kind of sexism that is language-based, deeply entrenched, and almost impossible to fight, because it has nothing to do with subject, context, or motive. It's all about semantics. Men can make statements to anyone, in any situation, and nobody bats an eye. If others disagree, they say so, if they agree, they just carry on. Women, on the other hand, often run up against the invisible wall of gender-based semantics. Particularly in dealing with older, conservative men, women are expected to meekly invite someone to consider her opinion: "Um, I think that it might be possible to find a more suitable Governor for Wisconsin than Walker, 'cause unions are sort of good sometimes, right??" if a woman speaks plainly, she is considered too forward, even brusque: "Walker is incompetent. He should be recalled." Then, of course, there's me: "WHEN is someone going to run that cocksucker out on a MOTHERFUCKING RAIL?!!! ENOUGH ALREADY!! CAP HIS ASS!!". Having recently worked with a pack of old-school ex-military arch conservatives who expected the women at the company to perform a non-stop shuck-and-jive, I can say with authority, (YES, GODDAMN IT! RESPECT MA AUTHORITAY!) that trying to accommodate delicate conservative sensibilities is a waste of time. The more careful you are with presenting ideas or making suggestions, the further back into the corner they will push you. At the company where I told my boss's boss to go fuck himself- HE ended up being forced to take a sensitivity training class for the public harassment that lead up to my outburst.

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

I hope we can all live on our feet one day . Well said and voted up !

FYI, I've voted up all of your comments, but the sock brigade is relentless. : )

enjoyed that. yepper. +^d

HAH ! +^d !

p.s. The only problem I ever have, in regards to women taking their "just place" and having equal freedom in all senses in capitalist corporate culture,....is well,....that I am an "left" libertarian; an anarchist socialist ,......and I tend to HATE that culture, value system,....and those folks who revel in it. ( This is beyond "anger",....I am not ALWAYS pissed,...I just sort of want to line them all up along the wall and shoot them,....quickly,...painlessly,....with a cold "no hard feelings,...by by ,..." disposition.

For me ,.....if the "Alpha Male" pulls off being a female, do to "just even chances",....well,...hard to get motivated to pull for that.

"MY TURN" goes only so far;....I don't want to see haw "poised and professional" women can be as executive Nazis, either.

I liked some of the late 60's feminists,....who had the " mans world" being tied conceptually to "business culture hierarchy" as something to tear down.

Thanks , i voted you up too . We are outnumbered , no worries . narcissist cannot cope with being wrong or even disagreed with so well .

Even Gloria took a husband.

In graduate school I had to take a class called "feminist methodology." I asked the prof, "as a male, can I do research using feminist methodology?" Her response was to drop her jaw, with nothing forthcoming. After what seemed like an eternity, she said "perhaps the methodology is inappropriately named, but the methodology itself is sound." I will never forget that as the answer spoke volumes to everyone in the seminar.

Perhaps sold out would be more accurate than softened.

Feminism was started by upper middle class white females who never lived on their knees. The average college grad who embraces feminism has never had to live on her knees either. There is a huge differnece between actual subjugation and mental subjugation. Reality vs. simulacra.

Some people are good company , and worth having around ... regardless of gender . I was not aware of anything against having a mate .

I saw a message on the other article where someone informed you that they always voted you up even though you thought not. Avatars confuse me so maybe it wasn't you.

So true. And someone claims others are voting them down yet you tell a personal story with no reason for a down vote and out pops Unimatrix and and the doomed kitten to do exactly what they troll that everyone else is doing. Ah, mysteries!?

I am pretty sure that Kitten of Doom and Unimatrix and the author have all insinuated that anything male is inherently evil. I could go and gather quotes if you like but I think that point is pretty apparent.

I can only speak for myself on this , but i vote comments up i agree with , because they have saved me the trouble of typing the very same thing . I know some have told me , they do not vote at all , so there are differing approaches . I often do not have time to vote at all , and just reserve it for things i feel strongly about . There are a few people who i , though we have never met , have an astonishingly similar world views . I do not actually follow them , though that seems possible on this site , but they are so articulate (i wish i could speak so well ) , i find myself voting them up where we meet on the same posts . In the old days on current , there were no votes , it was a comment recommended by "your name " button . I liked that better . This is too secretive .

I did not gather that from them . Why would you say such a thing ? Do you agree with the bible when it says women are unclean ? Do you think indoor plumbing changes things or is it a spiritual uncleanliness the bible refers to ? What i DID gather from them , is , they feel capable of determining their own destiny . Can you imagine the frustration of being the focus of a group of people , telling YOU where and when to ejaculate ? Singing " EVERY SPERM IS SACRED ... " from Monty Pythons "the meaning of life " ? People with too much cognitive dissonance will get around to doing that to you too , you know . Just hasn't happened in this country yet .

I agree. I married a Feminist Studies major. It was Gloria Steinhem who led the "I don't need a man movement." It is deliciously ironic that the "I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle" woman married a man.

Need . is different , that like to have around . Men do not need women . women do not need men . If you find one that isn't too unpleasant ... It is about NOT , being dependent . Being capable of taking care of yourself . What is wrong with that ? Men should NOT need a mommy for crying out loud . That way when you do come together , it is because you really want to , for companionship . Do you enjoy helpless females ? It does make you feel powerful , i'll give you that . Power ain't love .

I was very specifically referring to feminism in the 90's also known as the third wave of feminism and then it was a movement , while i understand where your coming from , feminism as i was referring to and what most people i believe is familiar was a movement.

Back then there was a distinct difference between a woman who supported womans rights and a feminist , a feminist was for the lack of a better descriptive word a more "militant" type group of individuals , there image was that , that took being a strong woman too another level.

While i acknowledge there is much i dont know about the innerworkings of feminism , during the 90's when it became popular it had specific characteristics that made it a distinct movement including many artists and intellectuals who were pivotal in stoking the fires of the feminist movement.

While your assessment of the dictionary definition of feminism is sound , the word has the imprint of the image of the 90s feminism image attached to it , and that movement from the 90s is indeed in decline , but that is not to say that women have stopped seeking there rights but the specific characteristics that defined the public image of what a feminist was , how they acted , there constant appearance in the news , raising money for themselves and protests and the unified ideology has indeed faded.

The very fact that you have to worry about being known as a "feminazi" just further supports my position.

My speculation about masculine lesbians , was just that speculation , i did not make it my position because my knowledge and experiences has not supported the position.

I appreciate the apology and i accept , and yes it is funny world we live in.

Only those that have not studied Christianity feel that it is sexist. Christ was anything but a sexist.

Feminism has a bad name because in a truly equal society there is no room for 'isms of any kind.

Christ had absolutely nothing to do with the religion that was formed in his name. Christianity IS sexist. Mary Magdalene was described as a whore for TWO THOUSAND YEARS.

Feminism only has a bad name among sexist assholes and the spineless twits who go along with it.

I think you should study religion more, specifically Christianity, before making false statements. Christianity, the teaching of Christ, never described Mary Magdalene as a whore. Jesus actually befriended her and gave her as much respect as anyone else.

I think you are mistaking the institution of the Catholic Church for Christianity. A religion is not an institution but a system of beliefs. Many religions, yes even pagan ones, have denominations that pervert the religion and make human rules that do not exist in the manuscripts of that religion.

To the right, children, disguised as a kitten, we have an angry feminist. It is remarks like that which give SOME (note some, not all) the impression that feminists have anger issues.

I am not saying all of them are, just that your comments throughout this post would give that impression to someone looking in from the outside.

^'d

And it's even more of a hypocrisy to follow these religious texts and treat women as equals -- as many do.

I have to agree with you on that point- it's a big one. If a religion has to be taken on faith, then cherry-picking only the palatable parts of it actually demonstrates a lack of faith in the portions that are discarded. From that point, the whole thing unravels. If the religion is then said to be a group of parables that demonstrate life lessons, then why isn't the very concept of God also a parable...

That's my biggest beef with religious people.
Don't pretend that God wants your wife to be equal with yourself.

Either be Christian/Jewish and make your wife a 2nd class citizen. Or if you disagree with that notion, as I think most do, leave the religion.

The institution of the Church should be left because it is the misogynist institution not the religion itself.

You make a good point - the hypocrisy of the religious is often readily apparent, and yet they so often deny it.

Perfectly said. As monkeyfilms said, two wrongs don't make a right.

Your opinion is worthless, sockboy.

HAH!

Booooooooo,...SPAM n DREGS ! -Vd

just flag them. Current is good at removing them.

Tsk, tsk. Haven't you noticed the slew of anti-choice legislation sweeping the nation? Women's reproductive rights, including contraception, are under attack, along with funding for Planned Parenthood, which in addition to providing birth control and abortions, also tests for cervical cancer and saves thousands of lives every year. Any woman who isn't angry about it is a doormat. Do you only date doormats? I think I know you better than that. : )

Feminists even discriminate against other women. Whatever happened to the rights of the female who gets aborted? Where are here feminist rights? Does she have to fear chauvinist men? Or, should she fear feminist women who believe it's okay to terminate her life before it began? Where are her rights that you fight so strongly for? Oh, yeah, I forgot, she's hitching a ride in your body so she has no rights. That's the feminist creed, right, it's my body so I'll do with it what I want. If another woman happens to attach herself to me, I have the right to kill her, I mean, a woman has 100% say in what happens to her body even if it means murdering another woman to do so.

It sounds to me like the history of male violence feminists like to remind people of in no way compares to the mass genocide of their own species that they continue to fight for the right to commit.

You don't need religion to give someone permission to discriminate against another. Feminism will work just fine.

Really,...."Angry",....( when its constant enough to FAIRLY describe someone "angry" as a prime ingredient in their description,...is ALWAYS a problem ; anger targets poorly. ASSERTIVE,....DRIVEN,...COMBATIVE even,....can have friends,.....the angry can only REALLY have ALLIES,.....and its just NOT the same in a "hug,me, kiss me,....feel MY pain" relationship. I will be happy to have an ANGRY allied person as a "shield brother" ; hold THAT LINE ! RAH ! . . . .and I might well take a grenade to save that person,....but "date",...uhm,........been there, ....done that. nah.

p.s. - - - -I think the term you are using for "angry" is "moral outrage".

and I hear you. you bet. spot on. agreement. +^d

You know you are the awesomest. I've voted up pretty much everybody's comments, especially yours, but yours are the only ones that stick. I guess that makes you the "sock whisperer". ; ) Did you see the Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill poster I posted on this thread? I know you have to be a Russ Meyers fan. Hee-hee!

you rul. ! ( . . .and I love 'Faster Pussycat',.... I have a collection of really nice/large digital images,.....I just WISH I had some of the original posters !

( I don't think I have EVER been called "awesomest" making a special note of that,....hmmmm,...."save screen",.....thats what I need......

I don't necessarily agree with that. If what is outlined in the religious texts is followed women are treated with high regard. Not to say that they are an 'equal', as the Bible outlines that each were created for a specific purpose; though neither to be treated with disregard.

Where the problem lies is in those texts being construed into whatever someone wants them to say rather than following what is actually contained within them.

Genesis 3: 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pain in childbirth. You will bring forth children in pain. Your desire will be toward your husband, but he will rule over you."

So here we have men ruling over women and women being given a severe punishment, which makes men's punishment, manual labor to earn his bread and putting up with his wife's nagging, seem kinda silly by comparison.

Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

Turned a nameless woman into a pillar of salt for looking back... what would the woman's punishment have been if she had been jay walking?

Genesis 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.

Notice that there is a trend which in the bible which is in this example, the woman is always the one who is barren, or unable to have children, and when God gives a woman a child, it is always a boy.

Also, there are men in the bible who take multiple wives, but no women who take multiple husbands...

Exodus 23:17 Three items in the year all thy males shall appear before the LORD God.

Why are the women not involved?

Leviticus 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Compared to Leviticus 12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

Why would child birth make a woman be unclean after bearing a child, and why the hell would she be unclean for twice as long after bearing a girl as opposed to a boy?

Leviticus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Leviticus 19:21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

So if a man has sex with a slave woman who is engaged, she is punished no matter what, but he can skirt the problem... is that more or less correct?

There is more, much MUCH more, but I do not really feel like exerting the energy or wasting the time to post information which is already bordering on redundancy.

Aww, someone is voting me down because they don't like what I'm writing, but it would appear that they lack the ability to actually tell me why I am "incorrect"...

It is so sad when people just do not have the proverbial balls to defend a hopeless position, but they still feel the need to show that they do not agree with what was said or written.

And no I'm not aiming this at cantucwearebrothers, he actually has gumption to get in the ring and wrestle instead of standing at the sides anonymously and booing. And I like that he has done that, because it makes the discussion much more fun.

I hope not, none of my brothers voted you down. Join the club, we get followed and voted down by certain trolls on this site no matter what our comment is. It's not hard to figure out who is doing it. I'll send my brothers in to reverse your down votes. I only vote someone down when they are nasty, hateful or do no research and then make definitive statements, a pet peeve of mine. I enjoy disagreement when it is done studiously because it just makes me do more research and further educate myself.

He knows that because we are all together along with Pat and Chris R. working late on a court case. You're reaching now, as if you don't always.

I offer my thanks, but you don't need to bother with voting me up. I don't really care if I get voted down, but if I do then I want someone to actually have the strength of mind and character to back it up and respond.

If you're going to vote someone down, then at least have the courage to stick your neck out there and stand up for your opinion, unless there are a lot of people already commenting against a single comment. Then it just gets redundant and it no longer takes any strength of character because you are joining in on a pack mentality.

That was great. How do you friend someone on here?

I was always taught that name calling and distracting from the subject are signs of a weak mind or just someone lacking a proper education.

I came here to learn something from the articles. All of this gang warfare and name calling detract from the site in my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification that you weren’t pointing the drive by down voting at me (though I have been guilty of that on occasion).

Just a quick correction though…I’m a girl.

Now…to address your response. I’ll preface this by saying that I’m simply offering a varied opinion on this topic; at no point do I think that I have all the answers.

Genesis 3:16 – Their punishment was a direct result of them (both male and female) disobeying explicit instruction from god. In fact, the bible emphasizes that Adam’s sin was greater than Eve’s because she was deceived while he wasn’t.

Genesis 19:26 – Lots wife…it’s the lesson here that is important, not the sex of the individual involved. Again…she disobeyed and there were dire consequences. Moses too disobeyed and though he wasn’t instantly killed for it he was denied the one thing he’d most desired. And what of Job…he’s tribulation was not a result of anything he had done.

Genesis 25:21 – Men clearly hold a higher position where religious instruction/reverence is concerned. I do feel that it is kindhearted of a husband to entreat god on his wife’s behalf. As a wife I would appreciate that my husband is concerned with the things that I am concerned with and thinks enough of it to go about doing whatever is in his power to do.

I think that women don’t take multiple husbands because they are smarter. One is enough. :p

Exodus 23:17 – Touched on previously. In the passages on creation identification is made that the woman is being made as a compliment to a man. This indicates to me that they will not have 100% the same strengths and weaknesses, but rather they will have the necessary characteristics to work together as a team.

In the book of Timothy Peter calls women a ‘weaker vessel’, but he doesn’t go on to explain what he means by that. The fact remains that women are ‘weaker’ on several levels….we are much more emotional and sensitive, we have periods of time, whether monthly, during pregnancy, etc, that we are more vulnerable. These facts do not undermine our strengths.

Leviticus 12:2 – Most of these surrounding verses discuss many aspects of hygiene that were not readily understood, but served to keep Israel well and healthy. Not consuming pork, for instance, which can transmit trichinosis if not properly prepared. There was also instruction to burry your waste outside of the city. Childbirth is a messy process…I’m sure more so within the circumstances that the Israelites found themselves. With regard to the boy girl difference, however, I am unsure. I’d have to research the topic.

Leviticus 19: 20-22 – I didn’t read that she would be punished. I read that he would be, but that death was not due because she was a slave.

I too saw my comment being voted down, but no responses given. Thanks for yours...I appreciate a decent conversation.

Careful, your name and WeAreChangeKy are similar enough that 'someone' will try to claim you are a version of him. I was confused myself for a minute until I checked your profile.

You wrote:
"In fact, the bible emphasizes that Adam’s sin was greater than Eve’s because she was deceived while he wasn’t."

I'm not arguing on the premise of who was the greater sinner, I'm arguing who received the greater punishment, and I'm arguing that Eve received the greater punishment. And technically Adam was deceived by Eve, Eve just happened to not know that she was deceiving him. Deceit is basically a lie, and it does not matter if you know it to be deceit, or a lie, or not. If you spread it then you are still spreading a lie and/or deceit.

You wrote:
"Lots wife…it’s the lesson here that is important, not the sex of the individual involved. Again…she disobeyed and there were dire consequences."

What did she disobey? Where in the bible does it say that God warned anyone not to look back lest they receive a sentence of death?

You wrote:
"Men clearly hold a higher position where religious instruction/reverence is concerned."

So, how is this a reason why the woman is always the one who is responsible for not being able to have a child? It takes two to tango and it is not always the woman's fault in a relationship for not being able to get knocked up. This also does not explain why the woman who is given a child by God always bears a son. Also, why are men clearly held in a higher position where religious instruction and/or reverence is concerned?

You wrote:
"I think that women don’t take multiple husbands because they are smarter. One is enough. :p"

Women do not take on multiple husbands nearly as often as men take on multiple wives because it is still more socially taboo for them to do so. The whole concept seems very similar to the lifestyle of a swinger (the two just seem to go together for some reason), and there really are not a disproportionate number of male swingers to female.

You wrote:
"Touched on previously. In the passages on creation identification is made that the woman is being made as a compliment to a man. This indicates to me that they will not have 100% the same strengths and weaknesses, but rather they will have the necessary characteristics to work together as a team."

... ok, how does that relate to "Exodus 23:17 Three items in the year all thy males shall appear before the LORD God?" We're not talking about a women going to help the man cut up a few cords of wood with a dull axe, then taking it home, which is some miles away, without the aid of a vehicle. We're talking about appearing before God... Are women not also the children of God? Does having a uterus before God somehow offend God?

You wrote:
"In the book of Timothy Peter calls women a ‘weaker vessel’, but he doesn’t go on to explain what he means by that. The fact remains that women are ‘weaker’ on several levels…."

No, women are not a weaker vessel. I have seen and worked along women who have done physical labor that would put an iron pumping muscled out manly man to goddamn shame. The only reason women generally seem to fit in as a "weaker" vessel is because they have been socially raised to be weaker. I have seen women who could outpace most men on a construction site, who could not only take a solid punch but could knock the man who threw it on his ass with a few missing teeth to boot, and I have seem women who would jump out of a plane into the middle of a forest fire just to get closer so that they could fight it. The weaker vessel is not an argument that will fly.

You wrote:
"I didn’t read that she would be punished. I read that he would be, but that death was not due because she was a slave."

Ok, where she shall be punished... Leviticus 19:20 "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free."

"SHE SHALL BE SCOURGED;"

A quick google search of the word scourged brought up these definitions.
Definitions of scourge on the Web:

*punish severely; excoriate
*a whip used to inflict punishment (often used for pedantic humor)
*flagellate: whip; "The religious fanatics flagellated themselves"
*bane: something causing misery or death; "the bane of my life"
*lay waste to: cause extensive destruction or ruin utterly; "The enemy lay waste to the countryside after the invasion"
*terror: a person who inspires fear or dread; "he was the terror of the neighborhood"

The first three have to do with physical punishment. The second two are specifically about whipping. How "didn't you read that she would be punished?"

Also, I'm voting you up because you are providing a good debate and/or conversation that I am taking pleasure in participating in. I look forward to more.