A boot camp to 'cure homosexuality'?
source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893735.ece
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- rebbill
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- groups:
- Sex and Love, Gay, LGBT
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- tags:
- Sex and Love, Gay, LGBT, Lesbian, 5 more
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BCStevens
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Its sad that other Christians give the rest of us a bad name with things like this. I have no problem (and do not see why other Christians do) with Homosexuals. I have been and still am a supporter of gay rights. I am also proud to say that I am a straight Ally.
Jesus loved everyone and I don't know how, when we are supposed to lead Christ like lives, we can not accept everyone just like He did.
Ben
- 3 years ago
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BCStevens
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5thElement
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Being Homo sexual is deffinitly a choice. It is somthing you are chossing to do.The only reason there are more gay people now then in history is becuase now its becoming socially exceptable by the media. If you choose to be gay, thats your choice but I dont advertise that im straight. Gay people shouldn't advertise there homo. It's no ones business. No one should know what you do with your private parts. The science of humans is to procreate and thats how it is. You can not procreate with the same sex. We are ment to pass our genes on so the human race doesn't become exstinct. If you choose not to be apart of the human race by not passing your genes on then no one needs to know that. That is disrepectful to your nature of being human.
- 3 years ago
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5thElement
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yahtzee
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People you dont just chose to be gay cmon do you chose to be straight?Its not a choice its who u are and what u feel! This is a mockery to the gay society!!
- 3 years ago
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yahtzee
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marlykins
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My grandpa, a staunch Christian, gets all up in arms over homosexuality. I tell him "Judge not lest ye be judged," which is what the Bible says, but he thinks he "isn't judging." My grandma is a Christian as well, but she is more accepting than he is. She said to him once "Why does it matter to you? They're not hurting anyone" and his response was something along the lines of homosexuals spread AIDS and stuff and so they are hurting someone, but I brought up the fact that heterosexuals spread other diseases but I don't hear him complaining about that. I asked him why all the other stuff, such as the spiritual cleansing for women on their periods, not cutting your hair, not eating shellfish, etc, aren't that big of a deal, and he said it was because all those things were in the old testament, and that "only really applies to jewish people." I told him that they were all in the SAME BOOK that the whole "no homosexuality" thing was in, and he had no response. I wish people would come up with reasons other than "because the bible said so!" as to why homosexuality is "bad." Not that I would agree with it anyway. I mean, I do consider myself a Christian, however, I believe that "mindless following of the flock of sheep" does no one any good.
- 3 years ago
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marlykins
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5thElement
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This is what religious people are worried about? How about lets use all that money they have put into tearing down trees to build big church's and money they are putting towards this and give children the money to go to the doctor. Good to know they have there priorities straight.
- 3 years ago
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5thElement
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mrstan
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It is good that someone is trying to resolve this kind of mental illness. I hope that this treatment for it works. I do not know how to help these mentally ill folks. It would be great to get them back into society that are normal. I say good luck to these brave people who know that they are stricken with this and are looking for proper resolution.
- 3 years ago
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mrstan
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Varex_Sythe
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Wow, a boot camp to "cure" being a homosexual makes about as much sense as a boot camp to "cure" being African American.
First off its not going to work. You are just going to end up teaching and training homosexuals to repress their sexuality. The best that this could result in is a bunch of sexual assaults much like incidents of the catholic priests molesting choir boys.
Second, if someone is born homosexual, who the hell is anyone to change their sexual orientation if that person can live a long and happy life? - 3 years ago
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Varex_Sythe
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goingforawalk
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Also, anyone remember "Jesus Camp?" That's what we have to look forward to with McCain and "End Times" Palin. . .
- 3 years ago
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goingforawalk
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mmob221
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I want to be tolerant I really do... but the religeous zealots make it impossible for me be open minded some times.
- 3 years ago
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mmob221
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jbone1983
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Homosexual behavior can no more be cured than it can be caused. It's a part of a person. It's part of what defines them. It's hard to justify in any way causing someone such mental stress and conflict as to try and cure them of something they aren't sick from. We should all learn acceptance and tolerance for once. Ignorance...now there's something we need a bootcamp to cure.
- 3 years ago
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jbone1983
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mmob221
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This is incredible. There is so much concern about peoples sexual orientation that it disgusts me... our markets are failing, we are at war, ... we have a long road to recovery ahead of us and guess what... people gay, straight and in between are suffering from AIDS, or getting laid off, or losing thier homes... we are all Americans... I for one was pissed when the Governor of NJ stepped down because he had an afair with a man.... I thought that was a perfect opportunity to take a stand and demand to be judged on his work not his private life... that was a missed opportunity ...
- 3 years ago
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mmob221
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HerpyHandcock
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What's sad is this is the Protestant religion and look at how many Presiden'ts (especially the current one), how many Senators and Congresspeopl are Protestants and it is no wonder why we as gay people are not recognized as being created equal with equal rights.
As far as the 16 year old boy being there, his paren'ts most likely forced him. When I was 14 my parent's made me go to a pshyciatrist and after the first visit he refused to deal with me because I told him I wanted to accept being gay, he had the audacity to say it was against his religious beliefs to help me! I told my parents to go screw themselves once I realized what they were trying to do.
They can try to stomp us down as much as they want, but it only makes us stronger and in the long run we will be recognized just like straights are.
BTW doesn't Jesus look sexy on the cross or is it just me :).
- 3 years ago
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HerpyHandcock
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googolplexer
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this makes me sick.
- 3 years ago
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googolplexer
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rwylie
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Hmmm: Find "freedom" from homosexuality through the love of Jesus Christ, a man. If this "love" was taken to it's logical conclusion, the camp would be a total failure.
- 3 years ago
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rwylie
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mmob221
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If these folks are Christians... they would do better to spend the same money to send an poor kid to summer camp... or how about donate the same amount of money to help a struggling college student pay for books.
That sounds Christian to me but what do I know cause I am just a lowly sinner. Ohh and should we love our neighbor but be ashamed and hateful of our own kids for being gay...
- 3 years ago
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mmob221
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jperson
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I'd rather see people cured of religion than homosexuality.
- 3 years ago
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jperson
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cantucwearebrothers
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jperson:
Amen to that!
- 3 years ago
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cantucwearebrothers
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raevenhudson
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I highly doubt that anyone can cure homosexuality, it's not their fault. It's just the way the way they are. You can't change the way a person is, and if you can that's brainwashing them. People have a right to be whoever they want and love who ever they want. And in forcing religion on it is just idiotic.
- 3 years ago
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raevenhudson
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scoot82
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I am a hetero Southern Baptist christian, and even I think this is wrong. Also, if this ministry really wants to help those in need, then it shouldn't charge 600 dollars for the camp.
- 3 years ago
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scoot82
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jbone1983
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scoot82:
Finally someone got to the point of cost.
- 3 years ago
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jbone1983
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JaetheFirst
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You can't cure homosexuality. I'd go on an ontological mind rape, tirade, explanation BUT let's be simple. I wouldn't be surprised if these boot camps turned out to be pseudo-concentration camps for, first, the gays, and then the rest of the human dissenters. But that's just the paranoid side of me thinking...
- 3 years ago
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JaetheFirst
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lockoneyes
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How would you cure homosexuality?
oh yes by A boot camp
thats gust one of things I hate about stupid people in society - 3 years ago
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lockoneyes
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RevolutionSoldier
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How will sending you to a boot camp with a bunch of other gay guys make you straight?
- 3 years ago
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RevolutionSoldier
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flyingkick
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-we don't want our kid to be gay, so we're sending him off to camp in the woods with a bunch of other gay kids...
- 3 years ago
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flyingkick
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TeamBoo
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Well, stories like this have been around for a while. If you realy think it could help you then, whatever. Go for it. Humdrum makes a killer point, how is a straight guy, that maybe used to be gay-ish, going to tell me, jesus gets sad when i get a hard on for Brett Favre? There are stories of guys coming out of places like this even more screwed up, but it does "work" for some guys. Religion can be just as much of an addiction as anything you replaced it with.
- 3 years ago
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TeamBoo
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cantucwearebrothers
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TeamBoo:
"work" is a fairly loose term here. Do you mean that they can supress that side of themselves enough to make it look likes it's "working"?
- 3 years ago
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cantucwearebrothers
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TeamBoo
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TeamBoo:
Yes. Some people say they have been completely cured. Which i find impossible to believe. I said "work" because i think those people are lying to themselves.
- 3 years ago
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TeamBoo
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Weepowopo
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Now when they say "through the love of Jesus christ" they mean what exactly? because if some male boot campees are getting some of this, I think all efforts are futile.
- 3 years ago
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Weepowopo
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RojoGatto
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Weepowopo:
i think we need a cure for homosexuality not a boot camp
- 3 years ago
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RojoGatto
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yonie
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I cannot believe people actually have the nerve to defend an idea like this on any ground.
- 3 years ago
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yonie
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ChristmasAsen
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yonie:
Is it not their choice to go to this boot camp in the first place?
- 3 years ago
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ChristmasAsen
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ByroniousMonk
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yonie:
ChristmasAsen, How many of the people in that camp do you honestly believe chose to attend?
I would bet if you sat down an talked with each of them you would find in most cases there is a christian relative or friend lurking in the background goading them on. - 3 years ago
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ByroniousMonk
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ChristmasAsen
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yonie:
My god, can't they just ignore them!?
- 3 years ago
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ChristmasAsen
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ChristmasAsen
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This is as much their choice as their sexuality. If they want to join, who cares.
- 3 years ago
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ChristmasAsen
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Humdrum
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ChristmasAsen:
Sexuality is a choice?
You're really hurting your argument with statements like that... - 3 years ago
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Humdrum
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ChristmasAsen
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ChristmasAsen:
I personally don't see it as a choice, BUT these people do.
- 3 years ago
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ChristmasAsen
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rainbowryan420
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ChristmasAsen:
oh i get it
- 3 years ago
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rainbowryan420
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Humdrum
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Anyone who has gone through programs like this one will tell you that one is never 100% "cured" - it's a "constant battle" with their "inclinations." Friction and friendship are not heterosexuality.
These camps are extremely damaging to the psyche/ mental health of the very people they are seeking to "help." Sure, it's my opinion, but when you take an unbiased look at how happy these people actually are, you can draw your own opinion.
The people running these camps have no clue about homosexuality - their views are based in ignorance.
They don't have a valid starting position, much less a valid destination. - 3 years ago
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Humdrum
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k8_hj
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Are you kidding me? Who cares what people do in their bedrooms with consenting individuals. I bet Palin's the Drill Sgt.
- 3 years ago
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k8_hj
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donkeyfly69
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that was so sad. all of the self hatred is insane. forcing gay people to be celibate? for what? they were all still gay, they admitted it. now they'll just be celibate and unhappy as well. they need love and support
- 3 years ago
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donkeyfly69
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SilvaForever
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I knew a kid who's parents sent him to one of these christian camps to cure him of homosexuality. He said it was kind of stupid but at least he had a lot of sex with bunch of different guys. Everyone was pretty much just having sex with everyone else.
- 3 years ago
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SilvaForever
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purplefox
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SilvaForever:
I was wondering if something like that wouldn't be going on... :)
- 3 years ago
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purplefox
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cantucwearebrothers
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SilvaForever:
When given lemons.. ;-)
- 3 years ago
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cantucwearebrothers
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skyla
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Jesus! There’s nothing wrong with homosexuality. Americans sure do come up with some whacked ideas...
Do you know how 'successful' this boot camp has been? - 3 years ago
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skyla
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rainbowryan420
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i am going to start an anti straight boot camp
lets see how long that lasts
- 3 years ago
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rainbowryan420
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Yoshi1
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“I still have same-sex attraction,” she sighs at one point, “but it's like elevator music to me now. I just don't pay attention to it.” says Bonnie.
Sexuality is part of who people are so to turn it into the equivalent of "elevator music" seems so sad to me. People shouldn't have to hide/repress their sexuality just to be able to feel ok with themselves.
- 3 years ago
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Yoshi1
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nyingma13
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Yet another means for gullible and weak people to be separated from their money. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, I wouldn't want to join a club (like this) that would have someone like me for a member.
- 3 years ago
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nyingma13
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khromadjo
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They are so ignorant and unhappy with Nature's ambiguity that they have to resort to trying to change it to suit their ideals. Basically, these are desperate, insecure people who try to reprogram other desperate, insecure people. Truth is, Nature made us as we are, from color to choice of lover, and no psychological bondage accrued through religious influence will ever trump it.
- 3 years ago
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khromadjo
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J_Jammer [removed]
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khromadjo:
Suit their ideas?
Apparently those that sign up agree. Where's the problem in that?
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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cantucwearebrothers
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khromadjo:
Or is it the parent, spouse, priest, etc...making them go!?
Who knows...could be.
- 3 years ago
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cantucwearebrothers
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kcfoxie
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i'd settle for it being considered just as normal as heterosexuality.
no one reforms prisoners who become heteroflexible while in jail.
- 3 years ago
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kcfoxie
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eunoia1986
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This is another wonderful example of terrifying radical christian bigotry in the United States. I don't understand how these groups manage to lag so far behind mainstream science and maintain such a large following. It's no surprise that homeschooling is becoming so popular with this group. Getting an education in logical thought must really put the brakes on "religious education."
There's a reason that Homosexuality is no longer found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Its not a disorder. It just occurs less frequently then heterosexuality. It's a bit like having red hair, Its less common than brown hair to be sure but still not evil in spite of sharing the devils color. There's a significant body of evidence stating that trying to change someone's sexuality especially in a religious context can do serious psychological damage.
Imagine being forced by your parents and religious leaders as a teen to believe that heterosexuality and all your basic urges are evil and cause by the devil. It would probably do a number on you as well.
- 3 years ago
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eunoia1986
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RainbowMan
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A boot camp to cure homosexuality! How absurd!
I can just picture it; participants making out in the woods! Some boot camp!!
When will the stupid people in society ever learn that homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality.
- 3 years ago
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RainbowMan
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Truthieness
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RainbowMan:
Dear Rainbowman,
I read your insightful comment under the article "A boot camp to 'cure' homosexuality", and I wanted to say that you made a big impression on me. You are very well written and I can completely understand where you are coming from. I am sure that the news that Christian bigots have opened up a camp dedicated to such a thing would come as the most upsetting of news. Certainly, no one likes to have their way of life contested, especially when mainstream science and worldviews back it up flawlessly. You also seem to have very well set views on Christians and their inferior mode of education. I really respect you vocality on something that we are both so passionate about. But, one thing I must confess, I am on the receiving end of this matter. Mr. Rainbowman, I would like to tell you a little story about myself.
Currently, I am seventeen years old. I am afraid that I was homeschooled my whole life, and continue to be so. Actually, not true. I did take two years worth of math at the local high school and I have been running in their sports program for a few years. I am the second oldest of six children. My parents are both Presbyterians, as am I. In my family, we all take our faith very seriously. So, you see, I am one of those people who represents that “terrifying radical Christian bigotry” . More than anything, I would like to apologize as to how the modern Church has addressed the issue of being gay in the modern era.
I know for a fact that outspoken view of a seemingly self-righteous church has done nothing but drive you away. Adear friend of mine, a public-school girl who is an a highly-opinionated and bluntly honest lesbian, told me of her views on religion, not knowing my background. To a great extent, she shared your views. Her vehement opinion was that I too must be a bigot. Her past experiences with activists at gay events, such as Boston Pride, had shaded her opinion of any Christian. Mr. Rainbowman, do you mind if I ask, do you feel the same?
As a homeschooler, I am sincerely hoping you can shed some light on precisely what is it that has brought you to believe that homeschoolers do not receive a logical education or are not abreast with current science? I am sure that my parents went to great pains to make sure that their children are always well informed on current scientific methods and theory, and, actually, it’s a particular passion of mine. I am not a nerd, but I do like to remain well-informed.
Although homeschoolers often pursue what is known as a “classical” education, by no stretch of the imagination is it archaic. Logic, Rhetoric, and Critical Thinking are all key elements of a homeschooler’s education.. Although I made, and continue to make, many friends through my enrollment in public sports and academics, there are very few in my town or others that can relate to the basic concepts of Logic or Scientific thought. I believe that they actively represent the mindset of modern America youth and the quality of our educational intuition. I have been accused by many of simply accepting the views of my parents. If that is so, whose opinion do they blindly accept?
Finally, I would like to you leave you with this thought: a close friend of mine works for Exodus International, and the entire program is 100% voluntary. No man or woman was ever forced into a counseling relationship or made to enroll in the camp. Everyone who ever has sought the help of Exodus International did so on their own incentive. No one who came out of that program was forced into any action against their will.
I would really love to hear back from you, if you wouldn’t mind. I joined Current for the sole purpose of replying to your comments, because they really struck a chord with me.
Sincerely,
Schuyler - 3 years ago
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Truthieness
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RojoGatto
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RainbowMan:
wow long comment BTW i love Steven Colbert TRUTHINESS! lol
- 3 years ago
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RojoGatto
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realfran
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TyMarchal, you have a point if we are talking about overcome some bad patterns of behavior, ut in this case they want to change who this people are, what else defines you like what you like and want.
I find so silly that people still treat homosexuality as a desease that you need to be cured of. - 3 years ago
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realfran
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TyMarshal [removed]
- This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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TyMarshal [removed]
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J_Jammer [removed]
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TyMarshal:
They are not along that mindset. They believe it can be changed. And stating that it's fact that there is a gay gene is as much neato cool as them stating that there is a drunk gene. Drunk gene doesn't give people the card to just drunk it up and go OMG but I just have that gene...
It's fine you think that it's fact that sexuality is something people are born with...but there is no proof other than what you believe and someone else believes and then what they've found that's as convincing as someone who is predisposed to murder.
It being part of your genetic make up doesn't mean you ARE such. It's in people's genetic make up that they are black but they look white...or it's in their genetic make up that they have heart disease. Does this mean they'll have a heart attack? No it means they have a greater chance of having such...but doesn't mean with 100% certainty that they'll get one. The same with being fat..there is most likely (or is, I can't remember) a gene that says someone is fat but that just means they have to work harder to stay healthy weight wise. Doesn't mean that they'll become fat.
I think it's disgusting to have such a camp. But who is it really harming? Them or your idea of what is fact?
I think smoking is disgusting but I'm not going to tell them they are stupid. Some of the coolest people I know smoke and it has nothing to do with them smoking and everything to do with them personally.
What people decide to do is what they decide to do. There are some things that hit people hard and make them want people to just do it their way because they KNOW it's right and they will fight until they do it their way.....I understand being passionate about disliking something a lot. It just doesn't help the situation if you know someone who would want to go to such a camp.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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msltj20
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TyMarshal:
j_jammer wrote: "I think it's disgusting to have such a camp. But who is it really harming? Them or your idea of what is fact?"
Definetly harming them
- 3 years ago
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msltj20
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J_Jammer [removed]
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TyMarshal:
Based on what?
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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div
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TyMarshal:
j-jammer, it's hurting them because they are likely being taught that how they feel is not right. having a gene that makes you more predisposed to being homosexual is not a "bad" gene, because no one (theoretically) is hurt by being gay. On the other hand, being taught that a "alcoholism" gene is bad makes sense, because being an alcoholic can hurt you, and having a predisposition to being overweight leaves you at a higher risk for heart conditions, etc.
It's more of a matter of what is being taught what is right and wrong with your body. Is it right to deny a severely overweight child that last sweet? In the long run, probably. Is it right to hit the hand of an alcoholic reaching for the last drink of the night before he gets knocked out? yes. is it right to tell a person that being gay is wrong because someone decided it is? that is debatable.
- 3 years ago
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div
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J_Jammer [removed]
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Don't judge homosexuals.
But do judge them if they want to change.
Great.Idea.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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hereinaway
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J_Jammer:
interesting point, but don't stop thinking
if every part of your soul told you that being fat was the only way you could be happy (lazy example, sorry) and all of a sudden everyone started treating your poorly, not looking you in the eye unless they were judging you, called you names, etc, how would you feel?
i can tell you that some of the most messed up people i've ever met are the ex-fat kids who starved themselves to get thin.
if a gay person wants to change i don't think a boot camp is going to properly empower them, like a kid denying himself food to be accepted by others, a kid going through the social environment of a boot camp is going to do nothing but learn how to motivate himself to mask his true identity
- 3 years ago
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hereinaway
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J_Jammer [removed]
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J_Jammer:
Just because boot camp rings of mean in your ear doesn't meant that they are.
- 3 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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donkeyfly69
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J_Jammer:
where in the article did they judge them?
- 3 years ago
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donkeyfly69
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Humdrum
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J_Jammer:
"a kid going through the social environment of a boot camp is going to do nothing but learn how to motivate himself to mask his true identity."
Exactly.
I'll never be convinced that this is a good thing.
The only way one would think it's a good thing is if they believe there is something wrong with it in the first place. - 3 years ago
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Humdrum
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MiguelSanchez
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Jesus died for this?
- 3 years ago
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MiguelSanchez
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JanaPokana
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'But I'm A Cheerleader' is a really funny film about a FICTIONAL anti-gay boot camp ... for it to become a reality is just sad and shocking! When is someone going to open the first anti-straight boot camp?
- 3 years ago
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JanaPokana
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rainbowryan420
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JanaPokana:
that movie was awesome
i loved it - 3 years ago
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rainbowryan420
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tokyo_chic
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JanaPokana:
What a coincidence! "But I'm a Cheerleader" is the first thing that came to my mind, too. I love that movie. More people need to watch it.
- 3 years ago
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tokyo_chic
