DAVID SHUSTER: The culture war is raging on. As one state advances equal rights, the other seeks to roll back women's rights.
In our third story on the "Countdown" — the Potomac dividing line didn't stop Republican Governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia and Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley of Maryland from sparring over their respective state social issues today in Washington.
Each governor was thrust into the spotlight this week. In Maryland, O'Malley vowed to sign the newly-passed gay marriage bill. In Virginia, McDonnell backtracked on a bill requiring women to undergo an invasive trans-vaginal ultrasound before having an abortion. And today, O'Malley had some harsh words on state GOP overreach.
(Excerpt from video clip) O'MALLEY: They say, "Vote for us, things will get better," and then you vote for the Republicans and they take a hard-right turn, outlawing gay relationships, outlawing women's rights, outlawing unions, outlawing all sorts — throwing all sorts of social wedge issues out there, when what people really care about is jobs and the economy.
SHUSTER: Republican Governor McDonnell pushed back.
(Excerpt from video clip) BOB MCDONNELL: Governor O'Malley is the only one that's got social issues at the top of his agenda. I don't. So, I'm not sure what he's talking about.
SHUSTER: After instructing state lawmakers to axe the "vaginal probe" requirement — following protests and media scrutiny — McDonnell insisted, today, the move did not constitute a reversal on his part.
But back in Richmond, Republican Jill Vogel, sponsor of the Senate ultrasound bill, struck down her own measure from that chamber's voting calendar, explaining in a press release, "It was never my intent to force a woman to have a vaginal screening against her will, only to ensure that women seeking abortions are fully informed and that current state-of-the-art safety procedures are followed. But at this point in the process, it was — for me — a matter of conscience."
Although, according to Vogel's office, she intends to vote on a House version of the bill on Monday which still subjects women seeking abortions to stomach ultrasounds.
Let's bring in Irin Carmon, staff writer at Salon.com Irin, thanks for your time tonight.
IRIN CARMON: Hi, David.
SHUSTER: Over the course of nine days in Virginia, we saw an invasive ultrasound bill that was on the fast track to becoming law. Then the public started paying attention and there was an outcry, prompting the GOP lawmakers to make some drastic changes. Do the Republicans not see the backlash coming or are they just defending the views that make them famous?
CARMON: I mean, Republicans could be forgiven in being surprised, because a lot of these bills have passed with only a little bit of protest from the usual corners. There has actually been a building movement around all these different states. In Texas, for example, they have one of the worst laws, where they force woman to look at the picture of the ultrasound and listen to the heartbeat whether they want to or not. They said you could cover your eyes.
So, I think Republicans really felt that they could get away with this, because it's only the usual suspects of reproductive-rights activists that are protesting.
But what’s happened is that you have this building momentum where people are trying — are starting to connect the dots and say, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute, when you said 'ultrasound,' I thought that meant the warm and fuzzy kind." Suddenly, they realize that all of this is trying to dissuade women, as if they don't already know their minds and now it's blowing up in their face because people are rightly fed up.
SHUSTER: And there's also an issue of cost and that is — even if you perform this other ultrasound — it is going to add to two to three hundred dollars and, from what I see, the Republicans are not suggesting that the state should pay for that.
CARMON: There is already a great barrier to women who are seeking to pay for their abortions, because Republicans are trying to impose various bans on insurance paying for abortions. You know, we already have the Hyde Amendment, where the federal government — Medicaid — can't pay for abortions. So any burden that they can put in a woman's way, even though she's made up her mind and it's her life and her body and it's her constitutional right, they think that if they put enough roadblocks in her way then they can dissuade her.
SHUSTER: What do you think is going on with Virginia Governor McDonnell? I mean, is this simply about the national spotlight for him?
CARMON: I think he did not realize that these are not consensus issues and I think he thought he could have it both ways. I mean, this new bill is trying to have it both ways. He thinks if he takes the word trans-vaginal off the table that that's going to be enough.
But I mean, his response, just then, to O'Malley really amounted to, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Again, everybody is sort of making their agenda known. You have — you can sort of judge them by their record at this point, and each of them, you know — one of them is a surrogate of Obama, one of them is surrogate of Romney and you can just judge them by their legislative priorities.
SHUSTER: I've been living in the greater Washington D.C. area for more than 20 years. I still don't quite get how Maryland and Virginia, which are so close to each other, can be so far apart on social issues. What do you think is going on?
CARMON: Well, again, this is pretty recent for Virginia. It was only until both houses turned Republican — these bills used to be dead on arrival when one of the chambers was Democratic. And now, we have a Republican governor.
So I think it’s — it's actually — it's certainly not all of Virginia. You had a thousand women protesting outside. I think that there's a real battle over the heart and the soul of Virginia and which way is it going to turn. And it feels like some of the people are actually rising up and saying, "This is not what we want for our state."
SHUSTER: And what does it say about the GOP that they are eager, in Virginia and some other states, to focus on social issues right now?
CARMON: You know, I am quite surprised that they're continuing, because I think that there has been a tremendous backlash, but what they're doing is they're being honest about what their intentions are.
You can see Rick Santorum and his opposition to birth control. He says it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that are opposite of what it's supposed to be. They want to de-fund Title X, which provides contraception to low-income women.
Again, the talk around this — they said, "If you've already been penetrated, you can be penetrated again."
All of this is really a moment of truth. We're really seeing what is the Republican agenda for women and — as far as I'm concerned — keep on telling the truth, because then voters can assess for themselves whether that's the same vision that they have for women and for families.
SHUSTER: And this Virginia bill, as far as my reading of it is — even if you are raped, there is no exception for you. You still have to have this ultrasound. In other words, you still have to go through the second humiliation.
CARMON: That is absolutely the case.
SHUSTER: Where do you see this going? Will there be court challenges? What's next?
CARMON: Well, right now there is a court challenge afoot against the Texas law, where they said that it violates the patient and the doctor's freedom of speech, their First Amendment rights. Right now, it's not really looking good. It is — for the challenge because, you know, there's a very, very conservative Fifth Circuit over there and it looks like it's probably headed to the Supreme Court.
SHUSTER: Irin Carmon, staff writer at Salon.com. Thanks for coming in tonight. Nice to meet you.
CARMON: Great to meet you.
