DAVID SHUSTER: At the time of his departure in 2009, George W. Bush had national approval ratings in the mid-20s. It seemed that Americans, as a whole, rejected the policies of George W. Bush and were looking for a change in direction.
But in our number-one story tonight — new poll results released today show a startling level of support by liberal Democrats for some of the George W. Bush policies that President Obama has either continued or expanded.
In the 2008 election, Guantanamo Bay military prison was used as an example of what was wrong with America's foreign policy, a place where inmates were held without trial and, in some instances, tortured. Guantanamo Bay represented everything counter to what America stood for, at least according to candidate Obama. On his second day in office, now-President Obama signed an executive order stipulating that Guantanamo Bay prison be closed within the year. Polls at the time showed that 64 percent of Democrats agreed with his decision to shut down the prison. That was three years ago.
Guantanamo still remains an active military prison. While circumstances may not have changed, public opinion certainly has. According to a new Washington Post poll, 70 percent of Americans approve of Obama's decision to keep the Guantanamo Bay prison open, including 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats.
More remarkable may be the blanket approval for President Obama's expansion of the drone program. You know, the possibly-illegal program that is so secretive that, when the ACLU requested documents about the program, the administration refused to even acknowledge that the program, or documents about that program, even exist. According to the poll, an overwhelming 83 percent of Americans approve of Obama's use of drones, including 77 percent of liberal Democrats.
Perhaps most perplexing is that 58 percent of self-described Democrats still approve of drone strikes, even when the target is an American citizen.
Joining me now is Heather Hurlburt, executive director of the National Security Network. Heather, thanks for your time tonight.
Has anything changed with Guantanamo Bay and drones since President Obama took office?
HEATHER HURLBURT: Three big things have changed. And, as far as the American people are concerned, that I think explain the numbers that you are talking about.
First of all, nobody new has gone to Guantanamo and there hasn't been any new scandals around it. Nobody's being tortured there any more. The public knows that.
Second, the big change the administration did make, of course, is to pull out of Iraq, start pulling out of Afghanistan, not start any new land wars. And so, those numbers on drones — what I think people are saying there is, "Do we like the idea of drone policy as opposed to troops on the ground?" Not, "Do we endorse drones — eyes in the sky — as an answer to all of our problems?" But we like it a heck of a lot better than big land wars.
And third, you know, we had two or three years of ceaseless rhetoric from some parts of the far right saying, you know, "You can't trust Guantanamo detainees. If you let them out, they'll be in your supermarkets, they'll be in your schools," while our side was basically silent, or trying to pass a health-care bill, or deciding we had other priorities.
So that, to my mind, is really what explains the flip-flop in public opinion.
SHUSTER: Could it also be that this about Democrats simply trusting President Obama with his control of Guantanamo Bay and drones, and trusting the president more than they did with President Bush?
HURLBURT: Well, that's true of Americans and national security policy overall.
And look, we should stop and say that there's a huge success here, that this is a president running for re-election as a confident national security president which, you know, breaks a 30-year tradition of Democrats being seen as weak on national security. That's over.
And Americans, in general, tend to give their president the benefit of the doubt on national security until he or she does something really outrageous, as President Bush did. And of course, Democrats trust the government, that's who we are. We believe — we want to believe in government until proven otherwise.
SHUSTER: With the drones, do people truly understand what is going on with that program?
HURLBURT: No, nobody does. And that's, to my mind, the biggest problem about drones, about targeted killing — whether using drones, whether using something else — that — not only has the administration not wanted to release any information, as you said — but Congress has really fallen down on its oversight function.
And drones — I tend to think of 1946 or '47, with the nuclear program. We're at the edge of this new world, which no one understands the implications of, and no one — inside the government or out — really has a good set of answers on how we ought to be using them, how we ought to be restricting them, and who — and how — we can provide the kind of oversight that we like to think is guaranteed as Americans.
SHUSTER: With such blanket approval, is there any chance either Guantanamo Bay prison or drone attacks are ever eliminated?
HURLBURT: Drone attacks will never be eliminated. Drone technology is here to stay. More countries are getting them. You read about Mexican drug lords building their own. So, drones are not going away.
Guantanamo can be closed one of two ways, I think. Either there's a national revolution against the use of Islamophobia for political purposes and a turning our backs on that, collectively, and then we can have an honest, non-scaremongering conversation about why it would better to close it for national security reasons. Or, frankly, you get a new president — and, frankly, I think it would be easier for a Republican president who could go to a Republican congress and say, "Look, to my surprise, the guys at the Defense Department — the CIA, the DIA — are all telling me that thing, as General Petraeus has done, as the Secretaries of Defense have done, that this thing is a negative for us and we should close it."
And that would, frankly, be easier for a Republican to do than a Democrat too. So, I wouldn't give up yet.
SHUSTER: And does this simply take — does Guantanamo Bay, the drones — is this simply off the table as far as the election is concerned?
HURLBURT: Yeah, well — yes, but because there is going continue to be attempts to score political points around it for the next six, eight months. So, we're going to hear a lot of overheated, scaremongering rhetoric about it.
SHUSTER: Heather Hurlburt. Heather, thank you, as always. We appreciate you coming on the program.
HURLBURT: Great to be with you.
SHUSTER: And that is our show for tonight.
