OLBERMANN: It is amazing to consider that just in the last week as the Occupy Wall Street movement has grown by leaps and bounds. One of those being occupied -- Bank of America -- responded by instituting a $5 fee for anybody who uses a Bank of America debit card. Then, CitiBank added a $15 fee for its free checking.
In our fourth story, as events in Wall Street continue to unfold, and we will keep you updated if there are any further developments. As Marie Antoinette-ish as all that sounds, it's nothing compared to a new report that other banks imposed secret illegal fees on military personnel and veterans.
A suit filed in Atlanta federal court alleges that several banks, including a venerable one -- who's who of bailed out banks, were involved in "A brazen scheme to defraud both our nation's veterans and the United States Treasury, claiming that banks charged unallowable fees, and then deliberately concealed those facts from the VA to obtain taxpayer-backed guarantees for the loans."
Loans to military members past and present guaranteed by the Veteran Affairs department, with the stipulation that the lenders do not charge attorneys fees or closing fees -- however, two mortgage brokers who brought the suit claim the lenders told them concealing those fees inside the title examination fee was done. The case specifically talks about refinancing loans which might seem minor, but over the last decade, there have been over 1.2 million of those loans, and according to the plaintiffs, up to 90 percent of them may have been defrauded to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. With that, as the start of the answer to the question, how did Wall Street get itself occupied? Let me welcome back former governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer. Thank you for coming in, sir.
ELIOT SPITZER: A pleasure to be here. Just exciting to see what's going on down there -- an ember of citizen protest, progressive politics, people finally standing up to the status quo, just wonderful to see.
OLBERMANN: And with -- before I get to the first question about this, the -- again, let me update again. All we're working from is from what Ryan Devereaux reported to us from Democracy Now -- that the protesters attempted to go into Wall Street after this very successful march of 15,000 or more. And they went into Wall Street and the police pushed back, fights ensued and there was random pepper spraying into the crowd. Mounted officers -- horse officers, the cavalry -- came in, and more police showed up. There have been arrests. At least 20 people that Ryan Devereaux can claim having seen arrested. So, things are going on as we speak, and we're going to keep you updated throughout the hour.
As we look to the reason that it's happened, that it's happened in the first place. When you look at a group like Occupy Wall Street, based on your past dealing with Wall Street as governor and before that, do you ask yourself what the hell took so long?
SPITZER: Absolutely, because -- look, there are a lot of people who have been saying for quite some time now -- the banks have been acting in a way that violates basic decency, every law, every principle of ethics. They have been bailed out with our money, the moment that they got what they needed to pay their bonuses, they said "Oops, we'd better turn off the spicket. No money to refinance, no money for jobs, no money for education." It has been one of the most heinous moments in our politics where the plutocrats got everything they needed and real people got nothing.
And so, what we’re seeing down there in the street -- and this is wonderful politics. It's not politicians leading it, it's not even existing leaders from the media. It is real people. This is how political movements really start. The environmental movement started that way, the labor movement, the peace movement, the women's rights -- this is great to watch.
OLBERMANN: And -- and, you would never describe conflict in which there has been pepper spray used and people feeling as if they've been blinded, and that -- remind people, of course, obviously, they don’t necessarily know that it's going to go away.
SPITZER: Right.
OLBERMANN: You're just blinded. It's now temporarily blinded is a retrospective term. We don't ever want to see something like that. But again, throughout this process, before those four women who were plastic-bonded in were sprayed by one officer -- Officer Bologna. And then, there were 700 arrests on Brooklyn Bridge over the weekend. This thing was petering out. And once again, it looks like -- with what's happening tonight -- with those, again, unconfirmed reports of at least 20 arrests after a peaceful march that this is going to be exacerbated by the New York police department.
SPITZER: What the NYPD did with the 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge was the single best public relations for the protesters.
OLBERMANN: Right.
SPITZER: Because suddenly, people stood up and said, "Wait a minute, I agree with these protesters. I'm with them emotionally, viscerally, in my bones, I know they're right. Why are the police arresting them, and there hasn't been a single arrest of a senior Wall Street executive?" Not one. Not one out of the Obama administration justice department. They say they're investigating, and yet 700 arrests of good, decent people saying something is wrong with our economy.
OLBERMANN: We used to have a tax in this country on the trading of stocks and bonds -- and there weren't derivatives at that time, it's prior to 1960 -- but, now Representative DeFazio and Senator Harkin have proposed exactly that -- instituting taxes on stocks, on bonds, on derivatives. It's done in Europe. Is that sort of a plausible first step to addressing some of the concerns on Wall Street?
SPITZER: There are so many benefits to imposing that tax. One, it generates a lot of revenue that we need for a jobs program, education, all the other things. Two, it would stop some of the high-speed trading that serves no good public purpose. Computer-driven trading, which is -- according to some estimates -- half to two-thirds of the volume, it's all Goldman trading to Bank of America, buying it back. It does nothing for society, and yet, it is what is driving the market and the volatility, hurting the real investors like you and me or hundreds of thousands -- millions of others. Taxing that would be good for the market on top of everything else.
OLBERMANN: Ultimately in this, does Occupy Wall Street and the forces for change here -- do they have a chance of affecting actual change? Maybe not everything all at once, but even incremental, even something -- just one thing to hang your hat on in one year, or is the corporate grip on this country too entrenched to ever be loosened at this point?
SPITZER: Well, you're kind of like Sisyphus rolling the rock up to the top, and then you get close, and suddenly, all the interests come back and push you back. But, here's the thing, Keith. This is organic, it is genuine, it is amassing more and more support day by day. It has touched a nerve and I think this could really begin to say to the Obama administration "Hey, you don't understand what we, the public, are saying to you." He's off there -- you know, he has been so flat on this issue of Wall Street and the economy. Maybe this will finally push the president to speak with a new, more aggressive, dynamic voice.
OLBERMANN: You may have heard Errol Louis say this was a two by four to the city of New York today because it was so ad hoc. And for an ad hoc arrangement to get 10,000 to 20,000 -- that's probably a good ballpark figure for this march -- was extraordinary. Is that -- would that be your estimation?
SPITZER: Oh, I think this is huge, has potential. Now, these things can tip off into nowhere very quickly. But, if you begin to see people like Joe Stiglitz, Nobel Laureate economist, who goes down there and starts talking about what needs to be done. Paul Krugman, Robert Reich -- who's out at Berkley, but who was President Clinton's labor secretary -- the people who are really smart about the policies we need to put in place. If they emerge as voices, -- and I think it's better that it be they, not politicians, not establishment people in the media -- they can begin to create a real citizen-driven movement here that could change the tenor of our politics.
OLBERMANN: The former governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer. It’s always a pleasure. Thanks for your time.
SPITZER: Keith, thank you.
OLBERMANN: As we continue to follow the reports of at least 20 people pepper sprayed in the aftermath of the peaceful march of 10,000 to 20,000 people in downtown New York tonight, and other arrests, and horse-drawn -- or horse-riding -- policemen entering a crowd, we're continuing to try to get further details on what's happening at this hour on Wall Street. There's been 19 days of talk about Occupy Wall Street. Until now, there's not been a formal message from its protesters, until now. What we believe will be the first reading of the first declaration by the general assembly at Zuccotti Park, and we'll do that next.
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