SAM SEDER: Millions of Americans, myself included, own an iPhone or an iPad. When we pull it out to make a call, tweet or text, how much do we think about who makes them and under what conditions? Probably not much. But it's probably time we started.
Starting as early as 2010 — and, particularly, over the past several weeks, reports have come to light which tell of cramped, unsafe working conditions and child-labor abuses at factories in China which produce Apple's iPhone, as well as products for such brands as Dell, HP and Microsoft. As users of these products, what are our responsibilities to those who make them? What can we do, and what do we do, when devices that we have come to see as necessities are manufactured in conditions we wouldn't tolerate and are, in fact, illegal in this country?
Today, protesters visited half a dozen Apple stores around the world, including ones in New York, San Francisco and Washington D.C., calling on Apple to deal with these worker conditions in its suppliers' factories.
Joining me now is Mark Shields, an iPhone user who, upon hearing these reports, decided to do something, which led to today's protests. Welcome, Mark.
MARK SHIELDS: Hey, Sam, thanks for having me.
SEDER: So, Mark, you delivered a petition today to an Apple store in Washington D.C. First tell me, how did that petition come about?
SHIELDS: Sure, I'm an Apple and iPhone user. I was at home one night, puttering around my kitchen making hummus and listening to "This American Life" streaming through my MacBook, through my Apple AirPort, and there was this whole episode about how these devices are made and the terrible stories out of these factories in China where people are losing the use of their hands because of repetitive-motion injuries that are terrifying and suicide rates are so high at these factories that they hang netting around the sides of the building so that the factory workers can't jump off the roofs and take their lives anymore.
And it felt terrible. You know, it went from being this nice night at home in the kitchen to being this knot in my stomach. And I was asking a friend about it and asking how to write a letter, and she said, "Well, why don't you start a petition on change.org and make it more useful than that?" And it took off.
SEDER: Yeah, it really took off. I mean, tell us how many signatures actually ended up signing this petition.
SHIELDS: Just over 200,000 so far and climbing. And it's from people all over America, and actually, all over the world. There were petition drop-offs today not just in the U.S., but in London, in India and in Australia.
SEDER: That's got to be a pretty amazing feeling, to see something you started sort of take effect so much. Let me ask you this, I mean, do you think it's because it has more resonance, in light of their enormous profits? Do you think Apple has an even greater responsibility than, maybe, other companies to ensure quality conditions for their workers? You know —
SHIELDS: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, this is the company that has revolutionized how we listen to music, how we see movies, how we use computers and phones. They absolutely have the creative and the capital ability to change how these factory workers are living their lives. And I don't think it's — I don't think anyone's expecting an overnight miracle, but there are some very basic things they can do to improve the lives of their factory workers and still be a good, successful, thriving business.
SEDER: Yeah, well — back in January — Apple commissioned an audit of its supply chain. They found that a majority of their facilities are not in compliance with their own standards. And they since have joined the Fair Labor Association, which is supposedly going to publish independent audits of their supply lines in the future. I mean, is that enough, or do they need to actually go further?
SHIELDS: You know, I'm not a labor expert. I'm a regular person. I'm an Apple consumer. I think that's a good first step. And we talk about that in the petition, that making the results of those audits public — so we all know what we're buying and how they're made — is a great first step.
But, you know, there's other things, too. Like, in this "This American Life" story, they talk about these repetitive-motion injuries that could be prevented if workers were rotated through different jobs in their factories. It seems like there is a very basic kind of human rights things that could be done about how long their days are and their job rotations that could make their lives better.
SEDER: All right. So, Mark — so this is the dilemma, I think, that as an iPhone user I share with you — what if things don't improve? What are you going to do then, essentially? Are we going to get to the point where we — are you going to give up your iPhone? I mean, I'm just curious, because this is something, I think, that a lot of people struggle with.
SHIELDS: It's a tough question. I don't have a good answer yet. I was talking about this with a friend today. You know, I bought my last iPhone over the summer and I really hope that by the time it's time for me to upgrade — or go to the next one when this one dies — that they fix this, because I don't know what the simple answer is.
I don't want to stop using Apple products. I love these products and what this company has done for the world. I want them to do it better. You know, they've said, "We're the ones that think different," and I want them to think differently about this. And I think that I'm not alone. Consumers around the world have said, "Hey, get on this." So, I hope that Apple does.
SEDER: Well, Mark Shields, thank you for your time and appreciate your efforts.
SHIELDS: Thanks for having me, Sam.
