KEITH OLBERMANN: The House of Delegates in Maryland has, this evening, passed legalizing same-sex marriage there. It voted against it a year ago.
It now goes to the state senate — which approved it, and is expected to again — whereupon it will be signed into law by Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley.
However, in the fourth story tonight — Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey waited until close of business on the Friday "Bad News Dump Day" to veto same-sex marriage after it had been passed by both houses of its state legislature.
"I have been just as adamant," the governor wrote in his veto message, "that same-sex couples in a civil union deserve the very same rights and benefits enjoyed by married couples, as well as the strict enforcement of those rights and benefits. Discrimination should not be tolerated and any complaint alleging a violation of a citizen's right should be investigated and, if appropriate, remedied."
That is not how Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald sees it. He said, "Thousands and thousands of New Jersey families are denied financial security, health security and fundamental equal rights every day because of a failed civil union experiment, and yet — in spite of their second-class citizenship — the governor singlehandedly, through the stroke of his pen, seeks to codify discrimination against them."
The governor wants a referendum. He's got other problems first.
News breaking today that one of his former staffers was staked out, along with the New Jersey head of the local College Republicans, outside the office of the state's teachers' union with a video camera, trying to record the union's president's every move and — not so incidentally — to intimidate anybody who goes into the building. Welcome to "The Sopranos."
Joining me now is Reed Gusciora, assemblyman representing New Jersey's 15th District. Thank you for your time, sir.
REED GUSCIORA: Great to be here, Keith.
OLBERMANN: What does it mean that Governor Christie conditionally vetoed this bill today? Does that have any significance?
GUSCIORA: Well, it's kind of puzzling, because he said he was going to swiftly veto it, waited 48 — 24 hours — no marriages have been failed since that time.
But he's given the gays an ombudsman. So, in case they have any problems with interior decorating or anything — walking their dog — I guess they can call them. But, he's created another level of government. He just simply needs to talk to a few people and not create an ombudsman.
OLBERMANN: You're not going to get the two-thirds vote to override this, so what's the next step in terms of getting this to happen in New Jersey?
GUSCIORA: Well, at the very least, it's advancing the ball and I think that's a good thing. Civil rights has always been a long struggle. Hopefully, the governor would reconsider. Scrooge reconsidered after a good night's sleep. So, I think that time will tell. Who knows? Dick Cheney, he came out of the closet and now all of the sudden he's for gay people.
OLBERMANN: I don't know that he necessarily came out of the closet, but in terms of support, he came out of the closet.
GUSCIORA: He was silent for eight years of the Bush Administration and four years of Obama. So, maybe he could talk some sense into our governor and it would be helpful.
OLBERMANN: I was going to say, what does it say about your governor and about the state of New Jersey that you would actually suggest that Dick Cheney would be brought in to talk sense into him? Or, the idea that Maryland — which last year scuttled marriage equality in that same assembly that today voted for it, guaranteeing it's going to pass — beat New Jersey to the punch? I mean, there must be something about the current state of politics in New Jersey contained within that — those series of statements.
GUSCIORA: Well, I think the world is upside down because Dick Cheney, who we've always considered Darth Vader, we want him out of New Jersey. But, Chris Christie is really playing to a crowd outside this state, in the red states. At the end of the day, we're a moderate state, we're a blue state and I think this is going to cause him some problems at home.
OLBERMANN: What is he — why is he pushing the referendum? And can you just briefly recount the great interaction you had with him and how he wound up using that derogatory term towards you?
GUSCIORA: Well, I think this is an easy pass for Republicans to make, put it on the ballot and that way they don't have to make the tough decisions that we get sent down to Trenton for.
OLBERMANN: Yeah, don't — don't you guys get elected by the voters in New Jersey? Isn't that the way democracy works?
GUSCIORA: I thought that it was and I thought we adhered to Madison's principle that "tyranny of the majority should be safeguarded against."
Nonetheless, he stated that the segregation laws in the '60s, they would have been happy to have that on the ballot. My point was that only two governors would have agreed, Lester Maddox and George Wallace. The governor did clarify that and he said that, at some point, "Well, the timing wasn't right." My next question is, "When is the timing ever right to put segregation, or any civil rights laws, on the ballot?"
OLBERMANN: What's the deal with Governor Christie? Viewing from across the river, I just see him as this sort of rather insecure bully. I mean, he called you a name, I don't need to repeat it again.
He deliberately misconstrued something that the head of the teachers' union said and called on him — demanded that he resign and now his party has two guys — including this one kid who used to work for him, on his staff — on Christie's staff — who are standing outside the office of the teachers' association with a video camera hoping to — pretend to be James O'Keefe. What the hell is going on in New Jersey?
GUSCIORA: Well, I think we are "The Sopranos" state. We also have to compete with Snooki, so sometimes we have to use some some vernaculars that are unpleasant. It's his style, and if you talk to the governor personally — he's a likable guy and he likes to talk — have a beer with him.
But, it is a serious issue and — at the end of the day — words do matter, whether you can call someone "married" or "civil unionized." We'd just like him to really reconsider his position. Everyone should be married that's — it doesn't destroy the institution of marriage. There were no tornadoes today in our state. And we survived after 24 hours.
OLBERMANN: Maryland is still on the map. And the tide of history is on your side on this. But, when the cast of the "Jersey Shore" and Tony Soprano are no longer the worst representations of your state, you know there's a problem.
Assemblyman Reed Gusciora, representing the 15th in New Jersey. Great thanks for your time and coming in.
GUSCIORA: Thank you very much, Keith.
