It's Time to End This War and Learn the Truth Before We Go Too Far

I can do a lot more supporting with federal funds.

That is true. Join me and speak up. We both want the same thing.

I am ready.

I hate white american history. Its embarrassing.

The American people need to understand where their money is going and how it is being wasted.

Americans will defend their country to the death and will always be behind our military 110%.

Surprisingly, I really enjoyed reading your comment and found myself agreeing with much that you wrote. War is an atrocities and the reason humans insist on moralizing war is a desperate attempt to make sense out of the chaos and bring some peace to a troubled soul. I also share your rather bleak outlook on the future and believe that armed conflicts and violence are a part of our collective social conscience. Not every human is inherently violent but chaos and destruction are two traits we humans are far to successful at. I have to disagree with you that people need to accept the horrors of war and stop being emotionally scared by the terrors of violent, bloody, human death. I would love it if the Iraq Occupation and the AF-PAK conflict ended today but the political and economical stakes are to high and we can look forward to at least another half decade of death and destruction. Your right about insane amounts of money being paid to Afghan Tribal Warlords in exchange for their help in routing out suspected insurgents. I have not spent much time in Iraq but I have spent 42 months of the last nine years in Afghanistan and witnessed first hand the U.S Military arm and finance thugs and drug lords instead of investing the money in the infrastructure of the country. Buying Chinese made weapons instead of building roads, schools, hospitals, running water or power. It is particular bad on the eastern border across from Pakistan as the Logar Valley and Wardak Provence is filled with dozens of warring tribes who use the American supplied weapons to carve out larger areas of lands to plant larger crops of poppies. I don't want to make a judgement about the character of the entire Afghan people and their culture but many of the Tribal warlords, I came across were violent, deceitful, vengeful people who would supply us with false information claiming a neighbor was an insurgent so we would take them away for question and the American "Ally" Informant would take over their neighbors fields and home. Since we didn't question suspect insurgents in our FOB's they would be sent west and would be gone for weeks or months even if they were innocent. I am proud to be an American Soldier and I am proud of our Country and its People but I have to admit the reason have changed. The polish has rubbed off, the glimmer of pride has been replaced with guarded hope with a healthy streak of paranoia. I am now proud of the young men I serve along side with, I am proud of the truly courageous and brave Afghan people I have met and I am grateful for the love and support I receive from the American public when I do come home even when the majority of the country no longer supports the war. I will stay in the army because now at 30, I am an old man and I don't know any other type of life. Also, I have a unique skill set and experience that I feel compelled to pass along to the new recruits just as the older NCO's took care of my green, ate up, lost 19yr punk I use to be.

Well from the time of Alexander Afghan has been an historic"bad land." Alexander almost lost his life in Afghanistan in a battle with guess who? The Pashtun's. His historians spoke of the ferocity of the Pashtun's The Afghans have been raiding Caravans, Pilgrims and each other for over a millennium. They are a people with many great conquerors.
I will always believe there are 2 kinds of people in the word good people and bad people and ultimately good will win. We cannot force the Afghans to come into the new millennium they have to do it because it is what is best for their people as a whole and as a country.
God Bless you and all our warriors fighting the good fight and God Bless America.
May God keep you out of harms way.

Didn't Genghis Kan have a hard time with them too?

Indeed Khwarezmian dynasty, More Persian in origin. The Shah at that time ruled over what is now Afghanistan.

Afghanistan isn't called the "Graveyard of Empires" because it looks nice on a bumper sticker. The Afghan people are an extremely proud and brave people. I agree with you that we can not use force to bend the will of the Afghan people to believe in a democratic and modern central government turning away from a millennium of a Tribal way of life. I also agree with that there are good people in the world and believe that the power of hope, self-sacrifice and acts of generosity can effect the world. Even with all the brutality and violence I have witnessed, I have also seen much that is still beautiful and pure in this world. Naive and just a bit corny, I know but everyone needs to hold onto a bit of hope.

The rate of suicides and acts of violent crimes committed by returning veterans is a plague and the VA is pitifully incapable of taking care of this whole new generation of young, damaged killers. Also, this is the first time that soldiers in the field are being prescribed anti-depression medication, sleeping pills and other drugs. Its truly fcuked, I have seen 19yr old kids lose their humanity and sanity in a matter of months strung out with Army supplied drug habits with the taint of death. You can always tell when some young kid gets his first kill, first its shock, then morbid pride at finally "Getting Some" then either the guilt sets in or a never satisfied desire for blood and violence. Five or Six years ago the Army lowered it's recruitment standards to fill new higher quotas but now that the Army has met and even exceeded its recruitment goals these new young, damaged, twisted boys who are now all of sudden not considered proper Army material are being cycled out. Thrust out into the world with very little support or help and the public is not ready for this new generation of aimless, ultra-violent killers. Okay enough dramatic ranting, I am just feeling particularly introspective now that my next deployment date is rapidly approaching. Gone are the feelings of indestructibility and replace with an icy feeling of my own fragile mortality. I guess my father was right and I should have went to college....

Thanks for all your heartfelt comments. You are truly a thinker and a warrior. Stay safe and alive!

The suicides have become a really serious issue. It must be hell to feel trapped in a war you don't believe in and the realization that you cannot get out of the military tour of duty without becoming disabled or facing a court martial.

In the service you must follow orders even if the orders are coming from fools. That is the tough reality. Realizing you are in a combat situation and being led by fools.

Solder suicides are simply unacceptable. Where is the support for our veterans?

I join 2treewolf39 in wishing you well. Thank you for your candid comments.

You summed up the entire situation perfectly with razor sharp insight and observations.

yes

All I can say to you is thank you very much for the service you provide to the Armed services. Its a very difficult situation to pu it mildly, but I really believe we contain the genie long enough to get all the people to the table someday, while not quite the American societial belief in peace through strength it is widely respected in the third world. Its a conundrum for sure. When and where and how to use it to actually be of benifit, thats where great soldiers come in.

A world in which I can't drive two blocks to get to the store? OH MY GOD I'LL HAVE TO WALK!

And I imagine that a world without oil would have us be more dependent upon electric vehicles, bio-diesels, and other alternative power sources.

I can imagine a world without oil...its called electricity...and its cheap and will revolutionize our country and ignite the next big industrial revolution.

Me too.

Some are arguing in political science circles that Obama has not done enough to turn around the Bush doctrine by escalating operations in Afghanistan.

That situation is a complicated diplomatic/tribal mess. and need to get out. The United States and allies should exert pressure indirectly. We should redeploy and take a more passive role kind of like a hunter waiting for the rascally Osama Bin Laden to pop up for air.

Hey, the government pays us great. We are getting a 1.4% raise in 2011. I can finally buy that Yacht.

wow... when are you buying a Porsche?

I bought the Porsche last year when President Obama gave us a 3.4% raise. The Army isn't called the Big Green Machine for nothing.

hahahahaha... nice!

the best industry at the moment would be banking..

thanks for fighting! I'm sure it's not easy, good luck!

Godspeed and be safe in His care. I will be with you, even if you can't see me. We have a job to do, and we will do our best to see it through. Now that you know what our job is, I hope you can find the strength to carry on. Wars come, and wars go, but our job never ends.

I agree with the logic of not engaging in massive prosecutions but certain crimes need to be prosecuted. War profiteering is rampant and illegal murders, rapes and theft by soldiers need to be prosecuted in order to maintain at least the illusion of honor and discipline. But, the thought of civilian courts ravaging and engaging in massive, large scale prosecution of returning veteran leave a sick, twisted feeling in my belly.

Well...a line needs to be drawn somewhere...because prosecuting Bush & Cheney will only bring on the circus and we won't get anywhere. With your experience...where would you draw the line? How far up the chain of command and to what extent should contractors be held criminally liable?

Jubal, I am ashamed to admit my ignorance in this matter. I lack both the legal expertise and civilian moral compass to determine where the line should be drawn. Some war crimes need to prosecuted but do we focus on the Military leadership? The Service Men/Women, themselves? Civilian Contractors? Crooked Politicians? Also, I am alarmed by the massive numbers of veterans who are returning home and committing violent crimes due to a multitude of reason from PTSD, drug and alcohol abuse, unemployment and a sudden sense of isolation and abandonment upon returning to a home their no longer recognize.

In addition to holding our government, and those contractors our government hire accountable to the public, we must always remember what imperialist, unilateral foreign policy gets us. Nothing benificial whatsoever. If our interests are not those of humanity, but are simply of U.S. tactical interest, then other countries will see right through to that and reference it when we question their motives. We cannot in good conscience suppose to be this democratic model of which others should base their government, and dually be exploitative in terms of labor and natural resources towards other countries.

Well stated!

Great comment.

Good point. Our government practices "do as I say not as I do".

We really have to go after people at the top. The truth is we were lied into war in Iraq and a torture program was implemented by the white house and top military and intelligence officials. The crimes are very real and justice needs to be served for true healing in this country as well as our relationship with the rest of humanity.

BY fixing the top we may get a little trickle-down morality.

I agree, and there is nothing I would love to see more than Bush/Cheney in shackles. But don't you think it would be an even bigger excuse for the GOP and the Tea Party to create an even bigger circus and obstruct. If the Top Secret bureaucracy...that has grown quite powerful knew that prosecutions were imminent...don' you think they would clamp the lid down tight on what they are hiding?

It is high time to call out the republicans AND the tea party. They are collectively killing everything that matters in a true democracy. Justice not served will only further the distrust and lack of participation from the general public. Let them be seen for the buffoons they are.

Don't let the government claim state secrets. Our law and international treaties were broken. I believe that over a million people have died as a direct result of the United States invasion of Iraq. This is completely unacceptable and it is verifiable if WILL is utilized.

The lid is firmly in place. It is up to us to pry it off and clean it up. If we do not, IT WILL Happen again; most likely worse.

bking74, Shit man you have more on the ball than you know!!
We have Vet John Kerry who needs replacing, care to run for the US Senate, your 30 (need to be) Smart, a vet, who has a moral compass and knows the real issues returning vets are facing. Economics is easy if you have common sense, logic and the ability to tell the truth. Foriegn policy, nuclear containment #1 priority, energy & climate change #2, overpopulation etc.....

Oh what a dream that would be. I am a Boston boy born and bred and while we are Irish Catholic, my family has no love for the weak morals and twisted logic of "GlassJaw" Kerry. But alas I have four more years left on my enlistment but I would love to see John Kerry replaced by a man or woman with a strong sense of ethics and morality, someone who truly has the safety and welfare of the people of Massachusetts as their main focus and priority instead of dreams of even more national exposure and weak willed politics. True, I am far more conservative then the majority of the members of Current.com, I am by no means a Neo-Con or Tea Party zombie. I morned the death of that great liberal Lion, Ted Kennedy he did a lot for the people of Massachusetts. Even with all his personal faults he was a Senator to be respected. Scott Brown shows promise and I applaud his bravery in breaking ranks with his party and voting in support of the President's Health Care Bill. Senator Scott Brown risked the angry of his party to follow the wishes of the people of Massachusetts who voted him into office. He still has a lot to prove and his true measure is yet to be determined.

i up'd your comment...

but look into the climate change thing being a conspiracy. saw video somewhere that had some good points on how the US govt and the bankers that fund them could profit off global warming. New carbon taxes are being implemented throughout the world that will be paid to the these people to " offset the carbon output". how can people monitor the carbon output to offset; besides to just take their word for it. and who determines what products/services are taxed. it all sounded like a slick way to make a bunch of money

The trouble with that is it fails in distinguishing the problem with some of the proposed solutions.

Just because some of the carbon taxes and carbon offsets might be a scam, doesn't mean that climate change is a conspiracy. The problem of climate change has a lot more evidence to prove it is legitimate than the proposed things to help it do.

That only means that other things like investing more in alternate forms of energy production should be focused on instead of those scams

no doubt...but these are taxes that will be mandatory and will trickle down to the products in everyday life. so it will end up being more income for the people on top.

alternative energy sources have been around for years, but "big oil" usually finds ways to bury any competition.

But that still leaves the problem of climate change and oil that is running out.

So how does that do anything to get at the truth as Jubal proposed? Those "ways" won't be effective when other means are no longer available and other methods have to be used

How does that "trickle down" and distracting from any solutions that will actually fix the problem get anything accomplished? As they say "the truth will out" eventually since it can't be avoided forever.

The transfer to alternative energy should be done for the pollution problem alone. Coal is the elephant in the room, followed be rain-forest deforestation to grow animal feed and Bio fuel. Wind, Wave or Tidal, and solar energy stations should be built everywhere. Oil and gas will then have real competition and people will be able to make clean choices for our children.

There will always be people out to scam us, but it is not the majority of climate scientists.

I agree with the principle behind shorter term limits...that if someone is a thief, but what about the good ones? It takes time to get on the committees and to have the power to keep the executive in check. If we institute term limits then we need to reduce the power the executive proportionally.

We need to do something! We have recent Vets that just finished fighting a war that no one wants and now some of the are homeless. Why is the government continuing to recruit if they can't house their own? Why can't the government see they are only hurting their people???

How many more Charles B. Rangel's do we need before something is done?? How long has he been in there?? and what has he done?? One good deed, doesn't not cover all fucked up deeds!

I'm sorry, but if someone is going to die for my freedom, I at least would hope the government would help him/her to find a home, after they finish serving a tour. Not just tell them, "thank you, come again" bullshit!!!

--------" I'm sorry, but if someone is going to die for my freedom, I at least would hope the government would help him/her to find a home, after they finish serving a tour. Not just tell them, "thank you, come again" bullshit!!!"--------

Then keep this in mind when it comes to maintaining and operating the Dept. of Veterans Affairs. They gave me a new life. And they are in the business of giving all veterans new health and a new life everyday. And they do a damned good job of it. The VA hospital system is ranked #1 in the entire country for quality of health care among all hospitals of any type. The standard of care delivered meets or exceeds guidelines set by the Joint Commission of Accreditation for Hospitals across the board.

To a large extent, it seems to me that the people who beat the drums and scream the loudest to send in the military............are, the same people who advocate cutting funding to the VA later.

As a sort of generalization about the vets that I see and talk with everyday---the vast majority are very reluctant to have a war come, or "SEND IN THE MILITARY!" They know the limitations of military action. They know the true cost of war. The people who want to push us into wars will not tell you the true cost of war. If they knew, they wouldn't want to get us into wars. And the cost of wars continues, long after the fighting has stopped. The damage and destruction does not magically end because of some signatures on pieces of paper. There are wounds that can seen, and there are wounds that can not be seen. Both can be equally destructive.

I suppose that my position stands on two things that Abraham Lincoln said when he guided our country through the worst times in our history.

------" Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them? "------

------" With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."---------

Thank you, we need more voices like yours fighting for the rights of Veterans. Reminding the American Public that the damage of war goes on long after the actual combat ends. Your wisdom and intellect is apparent and you are able to vocalize and communicate the issues and concerns that I have but lack the ability to express.

Indeed, our veterans have been treated disgracefully many times in our history...we need to give them their due and keep our promises to them.

Yes indeed. That is ugly.

The military industrial complex has morphed into the top secret multinational corporate government contractor complex...same ugly face but new actors and players.

as is it's just mass amounts of profiteering at the expense of misinformation to the masses but it's still the same game like you said.

It is apparent that organized Western religion fits all the Biblical requirements to be described as the personification of the "Antichrist." Masquerading as Christianity, Protestantism and Catholicism have tortured, raped, and slaughtered millions in the name of Christ while filling their coffers with misbegotten gold. America has merrily joined this savage and perverse movement, and lately things seem to be even worse than in the past. The gospels of the New Testament describe a gentle soul whose anger was reserved for those who profited in the name of "religion." That gentle soul's memory has been soiled by the actions of the predators who purport to act in his name. If God were to see what America has become, he would not shed his grace on it. He may instead wish to hurl in reaction to the depth of depravity to which we have sunken.

You took the words right out of my mouth...progresshiv. You are wise grasshopper.

Jesus himself told us this would happen. Matthew, Chapter 7.

--------" 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"-----------

Read the whole chapter. He also says what will happen to the false prophets.

Exactly. Thank you.

American Exceptionalism is the unspoken doctrine and main objective of the U.S Military.

that is why religion sucks...

That is why we need to increase our awareness and make noise about what we see. We need to demand that the truth be uncovered once and for all...that transparency be returned to our government...and that money not be allowed to be considered "free speech"

We need to do more then speak up. We need to vote for real leaders.

fascinating, thanks for the post

Indeed, justice is still undone.

Another useless economic policy is "Trickle Down"...yeah the blood after they slash your throat because your stealing something to eat.

Thanks. Vidal's phrase says it all.

I saw that...Colbert is so deliciously sarcastic.

Good way to put it as "deliciously sarcastic" since Colbert is "intaxicating"

LOL

The American public's view on the AF-PAK conflict is total and completely state of apathy. I am unable to see any end to our direct military involvement in the region. With the recent discovery of precious veins of metals and the construction of the TAPI oil pipeline we can expect an increase in the presence of both the U.S. Military and a massive build up of private para-military security forces. I am old, tired and worn down at 30 after a decade in the Army but at a loss on what to do or even how to live my life. Ashamed to say I believe a large part of my soul has become cold and hardened to the plight of the Afghan people.

bking74...I really appreciate your input to this discussion. I am proud to have you serving our country even though we were sold this war on a platter of lies.

Try thinking of them as people and not targets.

I am a combat veteran, and I work with other veterans.

Please go to a VA hospital and ask to see a counselor. What you are describing is a classic symptom of PTSD. You are not the only one. There are a lot of us. Come join us and hear our stories. You will find that you are far from alone. Breaking out of the shell of isolation you feel you are in is the first step. We can help you feel better about yourself and the world. We can help you convert the energy inside you that is misspent on hopelessness and despair into a new life.

You can change your life, but YOU have to take the first steps. No one can do it for you. All we can do is tell you which way to go.