Brain Waves Surge Moments Before Death

There are people working on it

It's mentioned in DMT: the Spirit Molecule.

Having your heart stop is painful? I walked my mother-in-law, my father and my mother into heaven. I was there with them, when they passed. They did not experience pain. They lovingly said good by and talked about seeing each other again in heaven. I saw no pain in either of the three. Just a beautiful conversation, then they laid their heads to the side and drew their last breath.

Your assumption about the heart feeling pain when one dies is wrong from what I have experienced. Two of the three died from heart failure. It was not painful for either of them. They spoke of no pain. In fact, I asked if they were in pain. They said no.

mmm... everything I know is about heart attacks. Perhaps it may be more accurate to say that it hurts when your heart is stopped by back pressure. every heart stops for a reason though. Burst ventricle, lack of oxygen, etc.. I can't see how a person would be able to rule out simple pain except in a very narrow range of death circumstances, and from the sound of this study they didn't do that.

Yeah. Like Bruce Willis & Milla Jovovich in The 5th Element, a fly by that might be considered a lucky catch.

Similar things are reported during astral projection.

Its possible to be spiritual and not dogmatically religiouse.
Its saner too.

Wouldn't that be what the Holy Spirit is for?

The Holy Spirit is always the 1 of the Trinity which is symbolized by the dove of Peace, because to the Christians, and Bhuddists too, Peace is sacred. The angels are messengers of God and have different functions as the Cherubim and Seraphim :. Messengers, transporters etc. As Progreshiv quiped: the galaxic taxi cab company.

Angels have been in heaven for a really long time. Having something as archaic as a beacon to find people is a little below their awesome abilities. If their job includes finding humans that are dying then they'd have a far better system.

Even in Star Trek they can find people without beacons because their ships computer can sort out their life signs in a mass of people.

The "God Module" has been debunked by Mario Beauregard in "A Spiritual Brain", simply because spiritual experiences and the thoughts of god do not originate in one area of the brain but affect the whole physical brain and body.
And cells are purely biological, without any essence of neurons. Also ALL cells in our body are recycled many times throughout our life so the thought of a single "Identity" cell is unrefutable. Also the sperm and egg arecompletely different, like a key and a keyhole, and when they meet they don't "combine" they metamorphise into a mass of rapidly reproducing stem cells.
Just don't want you to beleive something that has so much evidence against.

"But, if it makes everyone feel smarter to attribute experiences that cannot be explained by science, to dismiss the experience, so be it."

I don't think this is the impression the article gives, nor does it claim to explain all out of body experiences; what it says is this research "may be physiological evidence of "out of body" experiences reported by people who survive near-death ordeals."

Got any links?

Old news? What is your point? The discussion is over? We know all we need to know? Everyone was not around, or interested 30 years ago, so not everyone has the knowledge of 30 years ago.

What is old news to some, is new news to others. We should never stop discussing things, even if some have heard it before. As long as we are alive, we should keep discovering and learning the intricacies of life and death.

Timothy Leary talked in the 1960s about how the part of death he was looking forward to was the moment before death when brainwaves surged, and (he assumed) we enter a state of lucid-dream consciousness.

It's also talked about in the film Waking Life, released in 2001.

I love that movie! And lucid dreaming!

how do they explain people who have similar, but not the exactly same experience, as near deathy during meditation.? I wonder what brain chemicals are at work there? Some leave their bodies and experience a bright light and euphoria.

The most common symptoms for near death experiences are
Out of body syndrome (where your floating above your body and recognize that you are doing so),
Mystical Unity (The experiencer feels perfect harmony with the universe and self as one, and yet as nothing)
Life Flashing (Life flashes before your eyes, mainly important and traumatic events)
White tunnel (See a white light focused at a point with a force beckoning the experiencer to walk into the light. Usually the force is compelling with love)

NDE's aren't always the same simply because no person is the same. And I don't mean not the same by the chemicals composing our brain, but not the same in our consciousness and mind, My strong beleif, again a hypothesis but with some evidence, is that NDE's are a glimpse into what your after-life will be like based upon your current life. If you feel pain and hate in your NDE than that would probably be your hell you were slipping into, and if you feel love and mystical union than that is probably your heaven.
DMT is merely a hormone but indeed large doses of it do trigger NDE-like experiences, as do serotonin and other tryptophans.

Meditation will not trigger NDE a traumatic event will, but mediation will only focus your mind and release your consciousness for inner reflection. Having an out of body experience during meditation is different than one during NDE simply because one is a uncontrollable brain surge and the other is a controlled spiritual journey of self and consciousness.

If you are very interested in this I recommend you look up these books as they will help you answer many questions.
"DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman
"The Spiritual Brain" by Mario Beauregard
"Siddhartha" by Hermann Hesse

The most common symptoms for near death experiences are
Out of body syndrome (where your floating above your body and recognize that you are doing so),
Mystical Unity (The experiencer feels perfect harmony with the universe and self as one, and yet as nothing)
Life Flashing (Life flashes before your eyes, mainly important and traumatic events)
White tunnel (See a white light focused at a point with a force beckoning the experiencer to walk into the light. Usually the force is compelling with love)

NDE's aren't always the same simply because no person is the same. And I don't mean not the same by the chemicals composing our brain, but not the same in our consciousness and mind, My strong beleif, again a hypothesis but with some evidence, is that NDE's are a glimpse into what your after-life will be like based upon your current life. If you feel pain and hate in your NDE than that would probably be your hell you were slipping into, and if you feel love and mystical union than that is probably your heaven.
DMT is merely a hormone but indeed large doses of it do trigger NDE-like experiences, as do serotonin and other tryptophans.

Meditation will not trigger NDE a traumatic event will, but mediation will only focus your mind and release your consciousness for inner reflection. Having an out of body experience during meditation is different than one during NDE simply because one is a uncontrollable brain surge and the other is a controlled spiritual journey of self and consciousness.

If you are very interested in this I recommend you look up these books as they will help you answer many questions.
"DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman
"The Spiritual Brain" by Mario Beauregard
"Siddhartha" by Hermann Hesse

Great comment. I think science will do all they can to plausibly deny the evidence of soul in these studies. I love the line: "Chawla and colleagues would like to follow up their case study with a larger pool of patients outfitted with more sophisticated brain activity sensors." Imagine the newspaper ad asking for thousands of hospice patients to don sensors and coordinate their time of death to accommodate the study.

you mixed up terms. I've done too much reading on the subject for my own good, so here ya go.

Quick fun fact check:

"tryptamines" are alkaloids (or most-often "brain-reactive" compounds) found in plants, fungi, etc.

"tryptophan" is an amino acid found in poultry... which is actually partially responsible for the synthesis of serotonin in your brain. Fun fact. If you drop a lot of E... eat poultry beforehand (or take supplements). And not just turkey. It's common at similar levels in all poultry.

I am god

There will still be war, hate, and stupid people.

Is somebody being a little bit pessimistic?

I have hope that humanity will overcome its baser instincts.

The past dictates the future. It's really difficult (aside from technology) to find anything that is done different. Even politicians repeat what past ones have done.

What is that well coined phrase from the Bible that no one really knows comes from the bible?

Nothing new under the sun.

Things to consider.
We are not gods. Since the fall of man we are not even good images of God because we have been cursed with mortality.
God wasn't born, doesn't get sick, and doesn't die.
God is a spirit.
Humans are spirits with an additional physical body
Humans are seperated from God by the very nature of their mortality(speaking of the physical body).
God will one day give to humans immortal bodies to dwell in and they will not get sick and will die no more. There will be no more seperation, loneliness, dispair, anguish, disease or death and no more tears.
IMHO

Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'"

John 10:34

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?

New International Version....from both an OT and NT source.

Eternity is now. I already have my immortality.

monte, i think you have it right.

jubal, see the explanatory note by william binnie:

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/tod/view.cgi?book=ps&chapter=082&verse...

you're engaging in out-of-context cherry picking and the concept you're trying to defend is alien to the Bible. in any case the word used is 'elohim' not 'YHVH'...

this in itself does not constitute an argument against your belief in human deity, but you're mistaken if you think you've found Biblical support for it.

@Juicebug, you can interpret the bible anyway you want. There wouldn't be 30,000 Christian denominations registered with the IRS as tax exempt organizations if there wasn't a huge difference of opinion with regard to interpretation. What makes you think that yours is correct or the only one that is true?

Jesus was put to death for claiming to be God. He also said that "his followers were all one, as Jesus and the Father are one." I am not cherry picking to support something that is "not in the bible". You are obviously invested in one interpretation and are here to tell me that your interpretation is the correct one.

Well how nice for you to think so. But that in no way diminishes my position. I speak from a lifetime of study and personal experience. Obviously I am not parroting some dogma I learned in Sunday School.

I find it fascinating that Protestant Evangelicals and other denominations claim to have the "true knowledge" or that they are "the true believers" of the Bible. They don't consider for one moment the positions of the Gnostic Christians who actually predated them by at least 1300 years. Luther and Calvin didn't bring the Protestant reformation into existence until over 1000 years after the Catholic Church canonized its collection of books as the "official" bible. Most Gnostics were driven underground because of their positions and their writings were burned and their members tortured by the Catholic Church.

If you don't know the history of a document, who wrote it, under what motivation, why they might have done so, question the translation of words, than you are a blind follower and will accept whatever interpretation offered to you as "mother's milk". As for me, I have moved on to solid food.

lol if you were done drinking milk, you would know that this little g translation of god is used interchangable with the word judge. In both passages you gave it is in the past tense. and is not refering to the persons being spoken too.
Yeh you can interpret it whatever way you want.
but the bible no more says we are gods than the constitution says we are all presidents.If you choose to believe this, you only do yourself disservice.
And by the way it is of no use to talk about the catholic church to protestants, we all agree it was a corrupt perversion of the gospel. Martin Luther set the wheels in motion to understanding its corruption.
It is impossible for "Gnostic christians" to predate christians. There were no christians before us, we began and continue with Christ.

coincidently "I am God" were the last words of lucifer before he was fired from his job and escorted off the property.

LOL Montesooma I got to hand it to you, you certainly come up with some hilarious retorts..."escorted off the property."

At least you keep it amusing.

Gnostics were around and circulating writings, gospels and letters long before Christianity became a religion. Essentially there were many witness accounts and testaments that people had written. Catholicism, the only branch of Christianity at the time, was canonized and codified at the Council of Nicea. If you study early history of Christianity, Gnostics had well established beliefs about Jesus and the OT hundreds of years before this council. Gnostics were persecuted by the "official" church because their ideas were a threat to the hierarchical system they had established and invested in. Essentially the Catholics wanted to marry the writings of those who wrote about Jesus, a very select group of writings, and marry them with the Jewish writings into one book, while the Gnostics did only wanted to embrace the new writings. The Catholics disregarded every Gnostic or Apocryphal writing as heretical, because they had already devised a politically powerful hybrid that was eventually realized through Constantine.

But what is the point in engaging in a theological debate? You can't come out of your box long enough to be critical of your own dogma, you defend it and dismiss me as "doing myself a disservice." Until you can seriously consider that the bible is not the "word of god" but of men, then its like trying to see the earth from the "dark side of the moon."

I still stand by my assertion that "We are Gods", I didn't say all powerful gods that could vaporize an animal with a thought. But we are gods because we have the power to create and to destroy. Together there is nothing we can not create. If humanity could understand the unifying principle, the singularity that is what people call God, there would be no war, no evil, no hunger, no pain, no death. But instead, humanity has bought the lie that they are defective and need to be fixed, they are ugly sinful creatures.

We are amazing, wondrous, intelligent, compassionate, artistic, creative, beings who exist because we have a mysterious divine spark of life that is our consciousness. But how sad that because of a lie, people prefer to be mindless automatons who live within a well regulated dogma prison.

This is why I gravitate more towards atheists than I do fundamentalist bible fanatics, for one thing, atheists are more tolerable because they aren't pompous about their beliefs, whereas fundamentalists love to hold fear, sin and death over people's head to motivate them to convert, but more like be assimilated. Atheists are closer to God, IMHO, because they aren't polluted by all that man made politically motivated dogma. Whereas the duped fundamentalist are furiously about the work of the ruler of this world, who by the way is the same Lucifer who you mentioned in your hilarious retort.

Why else would this being concoct such a lie as to sell us sin on a platter? Because then we could not realize our innate potential, our created divinity, we are gods.

@Juicebug, the source you quoted appears to be a justification for the divine providence that some men claim gives them the right to rule over others.

We are gods, means that we are all equal "sons of the Most High." Only God rules. God doesn't need human intercessors. The very concept of an all powerful being means that that being can easily communicate with each created being directly. We are the very image of the Most High and we should all worship one another as we worship the Most High. Why? Because we are all gods.

jubal -- yes we were created in the image of God(immortal) but that all changed when the man partook of forbidden knowledge(good and evil)- this knowledge gave man culpability for his actions and caused his seperation from that which is eternal. This seperation in turn caused mans mortality and introduced disease and death into the universe.
Yes humans have many good traits as far as our standards go, but we are still under the curse, we have to work for a living, everything we do is vain, and we suffer sickness and we die(none of which was the original plan of life).

You are changing the meanings of terms -- the word GOD means and has always meant that which has "Deity"
There is nothing that is created that has deity.
Only YHWH has deity.
Secondly -- Christians don't take their beliefs from the nicene creed, we get them from the bible.
many writings and pagan tinged books were left out of the canon for good reason.
The catholic church has no claim of authority from the disciples of Christ but came seeking to divide and pervert the gospel.
Much of what is in the bible is written history passed down by the jews over thousands of years, clearly it was written by men -- no one said other wise.
But it IS the history of mans relationship to God and it is a true account of His providing our redemption from the curse.

god is not God.

And that whole thing about us being gods read like you were on some form of drug. It was really scary.

Because if there was such a thing as gods...there wouldn't be war.

Jubal:

"Another thing is that our divinity may be programmed into our DNA and all we need is the activator to unlock the programming of longevity, eternity, and null entropy."

"I have hope that humanity will overcome its baser instincts."

Monstesooma: "We are not gods. Since the fall of man we are not even good images of God because we have been cursed with mortality." From Revelation 21:3 & 4 => "no more seperation, loneliness, dispair, anguish, disease or death and no more tears."

Jubal relies heavily on choice Bible versions. Versions are not a Bible translations => "Psalms 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'"

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?

New International Version....from both an OT and NT source."

Jubal claims he is already immortal "Eternity is now. I already have my immortality." later throws weight around => "I speak from a lifetime of study and personal experience." [you others obviously are too lazy to acquire]

Montesooma => ""coincidently "I am God" were the last words of lucifer before he was fired from his job and escorted off the property." This is probably coorect and Biblical because Satan was thrown out of heaven see Rev. 12:7-9 at some point in our timeline.

Jubal proudly proclaims he loves the world, a violation of James 4:4: "This is why I gravitate more towards atheists than I do fundamentalist bible fanatics"

After insulting strict Bible believers as being "fanatics" Jubal tosses another live one => "At least you keep it amusing." Furthering the salvo Jubal adds => "whereas fundamentalists love to hold fear, sin and death over people's head to motivate them to convert, but more like be assimilated. Atheists are closer to God"... again insulting, using an Atheist hammer while TOTALLY ignoring that Montesooma presented the Hope of the World at Rev. 21:3 & 4 and has not threatened unbelievers with a burning hell anywhere so far.

Jubal: "We are gods, means that we are all equal "sons of the Most High." Only God rules. God doesn't need human intercessors. The very concept of an all powerful being means that that being can easily communicate with each created being directly. We are the very image of the Most High and we should all worship one another as we worship the Most High. Why? Because we are all gods."

Whew. God did need an intermediary and it was His son, not himself. To rectify the sin inheritance we all got from Adam a man was needed, a perfect man, which could not come from Adam. Eve who was tricked into sinning but did not deliberately sin was able to be a birthing vessel for Jesus to be born without having her DNA.

Jubal, we aren't gods yet. We're defective from the moment of conception. Jesus, as a perfect man was able to give us an alternative to our father Adam, so that we can legally escape Adam's condemnation that started this mess we live in.

Montesooma: "Only YHWH has deity."
Jubal: We are gods.
Jubal: seems to deny need & role of Christ to negate Adam's fall plus claiming we can achieve it using other methods of Science?

Jubal, most of your messages here seem to be in line with what the serpent said to Eve. You are just updating and expanding the conversation they had. Your insulting hatred toward Bible believers is stuff I would expect a Satan to say to Jesus in the wilderness. Your seeking to elevate atheism above Christian beliefs quoted from the Bible makes yours not the voice of a god but the mouthpiece for Satan.

Your messages are Satanic and likely spring from all those drugs you take. I forgive you, but whether Jehovah God will do so is deeply questionable. You seem on a fast train to wherever the Devil is destined next, or worse. Why? Because you are re-writing the Bible, that's why => "Let US make man in OUR image" Jubal.

I forgive you too gravity man. I understand how you can call me Satan when what I am proposing is that in fact its the other way around.

No, he thought the "god-module" was an actual part of the brain (right prefontal cortex) that had evolved to make us perceive god and religious experiences.
That has been proven wrong though by neuroscientist Mario Beauregard in his book "The Spiritual Brain". Its a good read I recommend it.

the pineal gland is the part of the brain thats secreates DMT, its where the soul enters and exits the body, its also what causes us to dream. its a tiny gland in the front center of the brain, reptiles have one too and but on them it has a retina and a cornea.

I dont think it was "disproven", just twisted around to make it seem like he was suggesting God only exists in our brains. But he was really studying the effect of damage of the temporal region of the brain that deals with visuo-spacial and proprioception. Which, if affected, can make it seem like you are floating above yourself, you have no awareness of your physical body anymore. Many people interpret it as a religious/cosmic phenomenon. It seems kind of similar to what some people are saying about DMT.
I thought Spiritual Brain was pretty good, I also really enjoy Persingers articles about this stuff.

aha...

We'll probably never know until it happens.

Maybe, at a very far stretch, evolution could have gotten to the point of being able to escape being tied to an atomic structure.
Some chain of interacting electromagnetic fields perhaps, which in itself might not even be permanent (most likely not)

It is still all entirely conjecture though.

thats a great book i read it about 2 years ago and i just smoked DMT for the first time last week. it was amazing, although i didnt actually go into the DMT realm like the patients in the book but i had an overwhelming feeling energy building in my body until it eventually collapsed into itself and you feel like part of the universe. and for some odd reason i could see further off in to the sky, i saw stars that i had never seen before. but anyway good book, smoke DMT

One of my favorite books!

If you consider knowledge to be ancient superstitions based on the subjective feelings of impressionable and idiotic people, then yes, we "knew" this centuries ago.

While you're at it, don't forget to exorcise the demons out of your epileptic friends! We've "known" that for centuries too.

So you're saying that this phenomenon is only experienced by liberals?

so you are saying that our whole lives are inside
that discharge?

Not so much the discharge, but all the neurons firing together at once.

Dreams happen in a similar fashion, but not to the same intensity as this.

that was the first thing i thought of, but i have had my life flash before my eyes. not due to lack of oxygen though. i just thought i was gonna die.hmmmmm

yeh couldn't be that they are seeing angels and heaven LOL.
The nde happens after dying not before as you stated.

When someone is dying the extremities begin shutting down as heart flow decreases. The brain has standing orders to protect itself and remain alive, so it begins shutting down circulation to the arms and legs... so this News makes perfect sense!

Energy is being pulled from the body parts then from the organs til finally the only living thing the brain is no longer having to support and monitor body function. At that point all you are is your brain, and all the energy you have remaining is there, still saving itself from death.

It's all in the physical progression of the dying experience, but as it happens, and all that's left is the brain, the brain can concentrate to the maximum amount of focus. People who did great things for other people would likely fly through every memory and have an enjoyable death.

People who went around running scams and hurting people would be treated to those memories... and their now-superactive human conscience would focus on what they did in their miserable life. However, without all the physical stuff to distract them I imagine the person goes through this short time to us are replaying it all as if experiencing it all over again in real-time.

I went into brain death once back in 2002. It was extremely dark, like being in a room without walls. I felt nothing and heard nothing. All senses had shut down. There was absolutely no sense of Time passing. I could've been gone for days or years and wouldn't have known any different.

I certainly didn't get any DMT high. I didn't panic. I calmly looked at all that black with a sort of amazement, then just as suddenly as I had left this world I was back, still sitting up, but the doctor had moved to a different part of the room... which I had no awareness of his doing. So he calmly looked down at his watchpiece and says to me "You've been gone 3 minutes".

He had not made any move whatsoever to resuscitate me, just sitting there timing me while I was in a catatonic coma I guess. hahahaha And people wonder why I say my doctors here in Roanoke Virginia were letting me die. hahahaha Well, the Almighty God wanted me back and He was all I needed, no doctors required, and so it has been for over 3 1/2 years now.

Even when I have times where I feel death is imminent, which I do have sometimes, I just have faith and wait it out. I either stay alive or I do not but I will no longer beg a Roanoke doctor for antibiotics, which they made me do several times. Give them the DMT since they neither respect patients nor know their jobs. Maybe some DMT will help them in their next Pay-Me-or-Else Motorcade to DC.

NO! its a trap! they just want your money! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

damn.. i tried to save him.