Upstream | October 16, 2009 | 78 comments

Physicists Calculate Exact Number of Alternate Universes

source: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2009-10/physicists-calculate-exact-number-alternate-un...

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pjacobs51
There are 10^10^16 of them (but #1,000,443,163,313,125,343,132 is the evil one)

For some time, physicists have theorized about the existence of alternate universes. In fact, some models of physics require multiple universes, to explain some rarely observed phenomena. But, other than obvious ones like The Man In The High Castle Universe where the Nazis won WWII, the Earth-295 Age of Apocalypse Universe, and the Terran Empire "Mirror Mirror" Universe, just how many alternate universes are there? Well, some Stanford University physicists have answered that question, and the magic number is: 10^10^16 other realities.

The physicists, Andrei Linde and Vitaly Vanchurin, calculated the number by first going all the way back to the Big Bang. Linde and Vanchurin posit that the stellar organization and physics of our universe resulted from small perturbations in the otherwise uniform mass of matter and energy that existed milliseconds after the Big Bang. So, the number of possible variations of those perturbations represents the upper limit of possible alternate universes, or about 10^10^10^7 possible alternate universes.

However, because of the physical limits of the human brain, no individual could perceive more than 10^10^16 realities different from our own. And since the perspective of the viewer factors into the calculations (like time dilation in relativity), that's the number of possible alternate universes.

Of course, that's the total number of POSSIBLE alternate universes. The number of ACTUAL alternative universes actually depends on depends on how many boxes the Professor made.
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78 comments // Physicists Calculate Exact Number of Alternate Universes

  • asherp
    • 0
      asherp  

    • what a load of bullshit.
      The swerving of a single subatomic particle could account for an infinite number of alternative universes.

      The idea that a finite number could be arrived at from unknown infinite possibilities is absurd.

    • 2 years ago
  • FishaHouse777
  • Empowered754
    • 0
      Empowered754  

    • If there so many alternate universes( as this article proposes), then is there a possibility, to steer the universe towards a future where we can cure cancer?

      And if your so concerned about curing cancer, then do something about it, and why not join the club? Go back to school and go into medicine/science and help find the cure for cancer and change the course of humanity. I'm not leaving it to mechanics and physicist! You must be crazer!

    • 2 years ago
  • manfreddrake
  • larrysnotes
  • tangibleparadox
  • growdude420
    • 0
      growdude420  

    • They're trying to answer questions that shouldn't even be asked. I believe we are not supposed to know what's beyond the tangible universe. This is the realm of faith and spirituality; science can try with all its might, but it will never tell us what's in our hearts.

    • 2 years ago
  • flashrob
    • 0
      flashrob  

    • ...before you read the rest... here's a few basics...

      1. All is God.

      2. God is Love.

      3. God loves you, and is taking care of you, watches over you... so no matter what happens to you or what you think about, everything still works out "good for you in the end," ... and you'll get to a point where you'll know "how much of the universe works," at least you'll know the answer to the dilemma posed by the "doctrine of solipsism."
      ...Shakespeare got it right, when Hamlet states: 'there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio!'

      first of all, I'm familiar with the doctrine of "solipsism." You can get a good look at some of the philosophical thinking on this subject at the link below...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism#Explanation

      Now to begin...

      The next time you want to "confound a scientist..." ask him this about the mechanics of "visual perception." (this ALSO applies to your other senses.)

      (I like to "do a number" on scientists and their so-called scientific method, because they like to sweep inconvenient issues, like this, "under the rug" so-to-speak. They don't like to discuss issues that "threaten" the underpinnings of just about all of their science, their credentials, and the bucks, attention, and authority they get by claiming to be experts, etc.)

      so here goes: "the mechanics of visual perception!"

      1. you look out at the world... and we all take for granted that pretty much what we see is what most other people see if they are standing near us.

      2. an optical physicist would probably say something like this:

      a. light bouncing off objects enters your eye, hits the back of your retina - IS CONVERTED INTO NERVOUS SYSTEM ELECTRICAL IMPULSES that then travel along pathways in your nervous system, and end up somewhere in your brain where an image of the external world is produced...

      b. Now, if you think carefully about this, a PARADOX becomes apparent. Go back to the 'CONVERTED TO NERVOUS SYSTEM ELECTRICAL IMPULSES'... and ponder this point a moment.

      Isn't this saying that the "supposedly real external light rays" that entered your eye... end their journey at the back of your retina, and ARE NOW CONVERTED INTO some kind of "nervous energy pulses," and THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER THE "ACTUAL EXTERNAL LIGHT RAYS" that originally entered, but some kind of substitute.

      this would mean: that you are NOT REALLY EXPERIENCING "the supposed external reality" DIRECTLY, but rather an "artificial replication" of it.

      Kind of like WATCHING A BALLGAME ON TV. You are not REALLY VIEWING A LIVE REALITY, but a replication produced on the "screen of the TV," with electromagnetic energy pulses being transmitted through the airwaves, into your TV circuitry, and thence to phosphor activation on the screen of your TV, and there producing a replication of the ballgame.

      It is, to be sure, a very good representation/replication of the actual live game being played at a distant location from you... BUT NONE THE LESS... this is a REPLICATION and YOU ARE NOT DIRECTLY EXPERIENCING THE GAME!

      The ultimate conclusion this should lead you to, is that:

      ALL OF WHAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT OF AS "YOUR EXPERIENCE OF EXTERNAL REALITY" is a REPLICATION...(because of the step where the external light rays are converted to "internal nervous energy pulses," means YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING the actual reality.)

      Think a little more about this, and you should realize that, based on this concept, what you think of as THE EXTERNAL UNIVERSE IS SOMEHOW "INSIDE OF YOU!"

      that means, that: the "farthest stars," the telescope, too... EVERYTHING YOU PERCEIVE WITH YOUR SENSES is a FACSIMILE /REPLICATION, and somehow "IS ALL INSIDE OF YOU!" You, must be PRETTY BIG, if the "whole universe" is inside of you... including the whole world... and all those other people (6 billion, or so)... AND ALL THIS IS INSIDE YOU... THE SUN, MOON, STARS, AND GALAXIES...

      ...something to think about, huh!

      peace,

      flashrob

    • 2 years ago
  • Empowered754
  • flashrob
    • 0
      flashrob  
    • flashrob:

      most of what will occasionally follow are some explanations about how "I suspect reality is/works."

      some idea of the following is "kind of a prerequisite" for my future posts.
      this is somewhat difficult for me to explain... consider that it has taken me decades to conceptualize my thoughts about subjects like "the nature of reality." So, this is not something that I can attempt to explain in a few sentences. One advantage for you, is that I can present a "distillation" of my thinking on subjects like this, that have taken me, in some cases, years, to formulate.

      Additionally, I have had access to knowledge that isn't normally available to most people. What "that's all about" is way beyond the scope of this single topic, and opens up a vast range of subjects, that would require thousands of lines of explanation. (In other words, I would have to write a book - which is what many heavy-hitters in the "New Age" movement do.)

      I'll begin with a few basics:

      1. the "dilemma of science."

      Years ago, I would often debate with my cousin - a Phd. in Western Philosophy - metaphysical issues ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics ). I had a year of Western Philosophy in college, so we had, at least, that much in common. Now, one of the core tools of Western Philosophy is what is known as the "dialectic" (formal system of reasoning that arrives at the truth by the exchange of logical arguments). One major difference between us, however, was that I also had (in addition to some knowledge of dialectical methodology) "considerable experience" in Eastern Mysticism. The "very different approach" of Eastern Philosophy is based primarily on what is known as "Direct Experience" (in other words you "exceed and bypass the mind" to arrive at Truth by "direct experience" ... you can later put your experience/s into words, etc.).
      An example of "direct experience," routinely used by most of us, is "our eyesight." You do not "have to think" to walk about. Consider the situation of someone who is "blind." They have to use a combination of "secondary sense impressions" - hearing, touch... coupled with "logical thinking about where objects in their path might be that they might bump into... for example: trees, the coffee table.... I think you can see by this example, that "having and using" the direct experience of "seeing" is a far SUPERIOR TYPE OF TOOL to use for walking about.

      Now, the "direct experiences" that you can have by pursuing many Eastern Paths are FAR GREATER THAN "plain vanilla eyesight." And I am now of the opinion that there are many questions "that science will never answer," because a greater "expansion of the senses" (and even more, a greater expansion of consciousness itself) would be required to comprehend these subjects in any useful way. So, in conclusion, my thinking is that some subjects are BEYOND THE RANGE OF BEING UNDERSTOOD by merely using the mind/brain system and employing "Western Dialectical Methodology."

      that being said: Let me say that it is "not my intention" to demean, in any way, the "wonderful achievements of science," and all the great things mankind has accomplished by the use of "logical thinking" with our minds/brains (I believe this to be part of God's plan for us presently). I am merely pointing out, that I think "something more" is required to answer certain types of questions, at least, in any meaningful and useful way.

      So, because of the way I am now, I view some of the conjectures/speculations, etc. that scientists, philosophers, academics, etc. are considering now, AS BEING FUTILE to pursue, especially with the "equipment they are using and so enamored with," namely: the mind/brain employing logic. In my opinion, where they "accomplish a great deal" and "make a REAL CONTRIBUTION to all of us" is mostly in areas that involve, for example, the more practical 'down-to-earth' things like those involving: engineering, medicine, law, etc.

      more later,

      flashrob

    • 2 years ago
  • Mark701
  • michail77
    • 0
      michail77  

    • On a size note, I've had a theory that on conscious awareness could be everlasting just given the number of universes and vastness of time.

      This would be the result of pure, random and rare chance. However, the framework for this to occur on is friggin huge!

      We have a good idea that our own universe will one day fade to darkness as it expands beyond it's ability for light to shine.

      It's kind of nice to know there are other possibilities out there.

    • 2 years ago
  • Geezeus
    • 0
      Geezeus  

    • I wouldn't say the phenomena that is explained by the multiverse is rare, eg. the double slit experiment. The ability of quantum particles to interact with themselves has been reproduced in every science classroom around the world and yet has to be fully and robustly explained!! The muliverse is an attempt at that!! The number of possible universes is dependant on the assumption of the size of the universe!

    • 2 years ago
  • ozoneocean
    • 0
      ozoneocean  

    • Given the unlikleyhood of the genesis of life to start with, it's very unlikely that any alternate universe would ever contain humans anyway.

      If there even was an earth and it had life, it'd probably be all squids or fungus or something

    • 2 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • eden49
  • pjacobs51
  • RFIDemocracy
  • chuygarsia2
  • J_Jammer
  • FishaHouse777
    • 0
      FishaHouse777  

    • The only flaw in this theory I can see, besides the fact that I don't know or care to know the math behind it, is that the brain has no limit in perception or knowledge.These physicists are saying the brain can't comprehend more than 10^10^16 universes because it is too weak but it continually evolves solely for the purpose to obtain more wisdom and knowledge. Also humans on the average only use less than 15% of their brain capacity, meaning if we used enough will power we could even make up some universes that don't exist after thinking up all the ones that do.

    • 2 years ago
  • remanns
    • 0
      remanns  

    • ......and this happened in THIS universe!

      EricIQ-2
      10/16/09 at 11:26 am, SAID-

      Guss 47 the answer is no. You can't count our universe as an alternate universe because it's the one we live in. If you lived in one of the other alternate universes, than you could count our universe as an alternate, however you would not be able to count the one you are currently in as an alternate because that would make it an alternate to itself. Lets say there are only two universes instead of the huge number presented in the article. Both universes are alternatives to each other, but there is still only one alternate universe, because the one you call home is the one you are actually utilyzing. If you transfered to the alternate universe, than the title of alternate universe would get passed back to the universe you were once in. It's kind of like saying I can't wait till tomorrow comes. Yes technically the tomorrow will come, but it will never actually be tomorrow, because before the day that we call tomorrow actually arrives it becomes today. This comment has no real bearing on anything I just wanted to ramble.
      Personnally I think they should worry about trying to discover just one alternate universe before calculating the total.

      poopshoop
      10/16/09 at 12:16 pm THEN SAID-

      you could have just said "look up the definition of the
      word alternate"

      EricIQ-2
      10/16/09 at 1:54 pm CONCLUDED-

      I know, but I was having fun writting that whole thing.

    • 2 years ago
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • Image

    • If you ever considered Pantheistic Solipsism, you would discover the theory that there are an infinte potential for parallel universes created by our very imaginations. Any well developed fictional story that is remembered by and thought of by many people are actual real places in a parallel universe, like Middle Earth, Star Wars Universe, Star Trek Universe, Harry Potter Universe, OZ, etc, etc,

      The act of imagining a world and developing it in writing and memorializing it as myth actually creates it.

      Pantheistic Solipsism means that you and me and everyone are God. However many, many don't realize it and would rather be sheep. They don't want or are afraid to or are brainwashed to not "take responsibility for creating reality."

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • jubal:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Number_of_the_Beast_(novel)

      Robert Heinlien already covered that when he wrote Number of the Beast going into detail about his ideas of The World as a Myth with writers creating whole universes with every story.

      Since the theory is more properly called "Pantheistic multiple-ego solipsism" because it takes the choices of the writer makes in constructing the characters and the plot to create the universe it follows the Many-worlds, rather, views reality as a many-branched tree where every possible quantum outcome is realised.

    • 2 years ago
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • jubal:

      Indeed Argon, doesn't that just get you excited to be alive?

      It does to me. It is a philosophy that empowers me as a creator and author of universes.

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
  • Ares
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • Ares:

      Our evil twins live in other ones.....LOL

      No seriously though, I want to travel to as many of them as I can and observe and record the differences.

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • Ares:

      Argon thank you so much for shairng your pearls and treasures with me. I will cherish your work. I am truly amazed at the depth of your imagination and the power of your creativity.

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • Ares:

      My Pleasure, I'm glad you think so, I have more complete versions of a few of them that you might enjoy like:

      http://writernightmare.blogspot.com/

      Universe 7946
      Sequel: #38
      T= 3 in Duration
      TAU= -2% in Probability
      TEH= 0 Wavelength (Prime Material Plane)
      The Writer's Nightmare where a writer needs to rescue the characters he writes about in another universe.

      http://www.createspace.com/246526

      I also made the animated comic into a DVD that you can get.

      http://anangeldestiny.blogspot.com/

      Universe 7807
      Sequel: #13
      T= -1 in Duration
      TAU= 1% in Probability
      TEH= 0 Wavelength (Prime Material Plane)
      An Angel's Destiny where a houri in Elysium trains to be a Guardian Angel.

      http://www.outerworlds.com/littlecupid/flag/memoirs.zip

      Universe 7821
      Sequel: #15
      T= -2 in Duration
      TAU= -2% in Probability
      TEH= 0 Wavelength (Prime Material Plane)
      Memoirs from Sideways in Time where a computer programmer developes the GyroTwister to travel through the universes

      There is plenty more depth there if you want to check it out.

    • 2 years ago
  • remanns
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • Ares:

      It all depends on how you count them, from the relative or the absolute perspective.

      Just as there are a number of waves but all are part of one ocean so to are all the alternate universes part of one existence.

      So we live in both many universes and one depending on if you look at the parts or the whole like seeing the details of the trees or the patterns of the forest.

    • 2 years ago
  • royulery
    • 0
      royulery  

    • in all the miriad universes there is one where the multi-verse does not exist and there is but one reality. so by it's very existence all other universes cease to be and here we are.

    • 2 years ago
  • lilDude
    • 0
      lilDude  

    • i wanted to live in the future when they figured out how to travel to them. i can't believe they put an exact number.

    • 2 years ago
  • reactionforce
  • royulery
    • 0
      royulery  

    • i'm always embarrassed when some egomaniac makes such a grandiose claim. we are organic systems and our view of what is, is limited by our sense's inherent imperfections. we are on track but our mathematical s are bias by our instruments magnifying our distorted view. we will get a better perspective when a.i. can build it's own senses and see what we can't.

    • 2 years ago
  • EmperorThan
    • 0
      EmperorThan  

    • Then the physicist realized he forgot to carry a remainder and his head literally exploded.

      The funeral services are to be anounced later today, not anounced ever, possibly announced yesterday, and the funeral services do not exist.

    • 2 years ago
  • FishaHouse777
  • remanns
  • trelk
    • 0
      trelk  

    • science is good for building things and commenting on repeatable phenomena (period) when i see numbers like this i can only think that there is some other elegant theory that seems correct and the side effect is that there are 7 trillion other universes. what a load of dogshit.

      there are plenty of people here that would down talk some news article about religion...that god is complete bollocks...and they would say that in the name of science: the source of humanity's most fantastically esoteric ideas.

    • 2 years ago
  • evilsciencechick
  • hunzedog
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  

    • Wouldn't it just be easier to grab the tech and copy solutions to problems from the universes that solved them instead of going to all the trouble of doing it ourselves?

      I'm sure that was what Stewie had in mind on Family Guy

    • 2 years ago
  • ZeldaMasterZapp
  • tangibleparadox
  • jubal
  • FishaHouse777
  • Darevalo
  • remanns
  • TheBrownKid
    • 0
      TheBrownKid  
    • remanns:

      OF course. there's not 10^160 alternate universes, there's only 42.

      I doubt in any of them, however, that I will be a different color than brown.

      Except the 43rd one, where I'm actually a chicken.

    • 2 years ago
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • remanns:

      You missed the point since the number of universes wasn't the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything that was way to narrow for it to apply.

      "How many roads must a man walk down?" fits a whole lot better than that

    • 2 years ago
  • tangibleparadox
  • blaino
  • Darevalo
    • 0
      Darevalo  
    • blaino:

      wow, cause i was smokin with god the other day, and he was teliln me how kick ass some of the other universes are... even showed me his personal favorite, the "boob-niverse"

      it was so beautiful, i thought i would cry.

    • 2 years ago
  • AnakinCallsMeMommy
  • RFIDemocracy
  • Oops_i_crapped_mypants_8
  • keviar
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  

    • Unfortunately that is only at the time of the Big Bang and not all the possible ones since then because every choice that is made also splits off into a different alternate universe.

      That number is constantly growing over time with the expansion of possibilities of choices.

      There are plenty of alternate universes where tax money is spent wisely and there is a cure for all diseases like cancer.

      A better question to ask would be why isn't this one of them?

    • 2 years ago
  • tangibleparadox
  • Atalanda_Cameron
  • pandaman2105
  • Hunnter
  • Oops_i_crapped_mypants_8
  • Darevalo
  • Empowered754
    • 0
      Empowered754  
    • Atalanda_Cameron:

      Plus if you ever find the cure for Cancer then I would have to call you GOD! Cancer is not like small pox, or even AIDS, to ever "cure" like completely eradicate you will have to against the will of GOD! really!!!

    • 2 years ago
  • xTHHxAimiForevr
  • michail77
    • 0
      michail77  
    • Atalanda_Cameron:

      "haha omg.. why are these people paid to make theories based on theories? How about curing cancer? HOW ABOUT THAT!?! :P"

      Well, why don't auto mechanics spend their time trying to cure cancer as well?

    • 2 years ago
  • Chipw
  • reallybigname
    • 0
      reallybigname  
    • Atalanda_Cameron:

      You ever hear of a PET scan? That's done with positrons, which are a form of anti-matter. Physicists thought that up, not doctors. What about things like MRIs, even ultrasound wouldn't be possible without physics. Your statement is ungrateful to all the many physicists working to save our pitiful world.

    • 2 years ago
  • chuygarsia2
  • randolph1
  • idealist
  • UndoInfluence
  • Darevalo
    • 0
      Darevalo  
    • idealist:

      and boob jobs for all!... i kid..

      but there is... i saw it once in a dream... or it was in an episode of family guy.

      funny thing was the dream was a few years ago... and al gore was president.

    • 2 years ago
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