Have we found the universe that existed before the Big Bang?

+^d

infinite dissipation. like the ripples in a pond... only the pond has no edges.

The beauty of science is that when done correctly there is a calculated degree of certainty for every theory. For example, the possibility that we are in a climate change event is often calculated to be somewhere in the range 90 to 95 percent. Politics and religion are completely different in this respect. Politicians must convince their constituents that they are 100 percent correct with a certainty of 100 percent.

Scientists trying to describe everything (if this were possible) cannot ever calculate degree of certainty because it is impossible to calculate certainty over the entire universe. This is similar to dividing any real number by infinity. There is no real solution to the certainty calculation.

So, I agree that any attempt to describe everything is religion masquerading as science. Give that estimate 99 percent certainty level.

please explain what the big bang has to do with the yin-yang?

no, you're still special

lol small bus jokes, surely to follow

Your are still thinking about this event in classical terms. Are you aware that at every moment of time, however small you want to break it down, all energy and matter is created from a vacuum! The big bang might as well have been just a tiny flux of energy in the quantum field or the zero-point vacuum. This unitive field of probability gives rise to the manifestation of all matter and energy to any given reality. The big bang was more than likely to have occurred and an infinite amount will also follow. We have to realize that in terms of modern scientific concepts, we are still basically in kindergarten. We think we know a lot, but truly haven't even begun to look at the cosmos in a holistic, mature way. Once our consciousness as a human whole takes the next step in obtaining increasing universal awareness, then we will be able to begin to realistically conceptualize our true origins and the meaning of the cosmos. Step outside your little perceptual box because you are just swimming in circles right now!

The first law of thermodynamics, one of the most basic concepts in science is energy cannot be created or destroyed. Read my post above the one you responded to.

I am in no way arguing about the validity of the conservation of energy. I am just saying that the big bang is possible if put in the framework I just provided, and in no way does this violate any laws of known physics. Read a little about the zero point energy field, and you will begin to grasp how the material universe can come to be out what may appear to you to be "nothingness", but in reality is a unified, non-local field of potentiality regulating all probable manifestations of reality.It just takes consciousness through a holographic mechanism to make the probable, real. I guess the basic premise of what I am trying to get across through all of this is that until science realizes that validity of the primacy of consciousness, we will never truly grasp the infinitude of reality and the cosmos. Consciousness is more primary than spacetime itself, since spacetime is a manifestation dependent on the presence of consciousness. Does any of that make any bit of sense to you? Just be willing to listen to what I just put forth with an incredibly open mind. Baby steps!

Ya don't have to be a douche about it. What I think is the universe didn't "come to be" it always has been & always will be. It's always been here & didn't come from some dense singular point. The part of it we aware of was probably from the back end of a massive black hole. That was the big bang, when all that energy & mass became unbalanced. Kind of like a nuclear explosion on earth. All that potential energy in that little bomb, which is on earth, which is in our solar system, which is in the milky way, which is in our universe, which is infinite. I think the big bang in the great vastness of everything was like that little nuke & the universe (the part we are aware of) is the mushroom cloud. In that unknown vastness our big bang was nothing more than say a hand grenade going off in Antarctica. It might mean something to the penguins that it scared off but it means nothing to someone up on mars. I don't dispute the big bang. I just think it was so much more insignificant than science can prove & I don't think humans will ever have the smarts to be able to prove it.

Oh & by the way you did say "energy & mass created". Conciousness has nothing to do with it. That tree that fell in the woods did make a noise, even if no one was around to hear it

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the significance of consciousness. Consciousness has everything to do with it. And I am in now way trying to be a dick about it. Just offering a completely different perspective that a growing number of physicists are beginning to conclude. And I just realized I did say create. Let me rephrase. I meant to say that physical reality is realized from a probable, virtual state within an implicate order into a "solid', coherent state that we observe through our mind-consciousness (mind + 5 senses, not to be confused with a proto, or field consciousness). It's a steady state system occurring on the Plank time-scale. It's a transition from one level of order to another. That is all, nothing is created, but merely transitioned and realized. A tiny something from everything if you will. It's just a completely different way of looking at things. My rational comes from people such as David Bohm, Amit Gotswami, Roger Penrose, Fred Alan Wolfe, Thomas Campbell, Lisa Randall ... and many more. Everyone of these people emphasize the needed role of consciousness to bring upon a fuller (not to be confused with complete) scientific view of reality. I am not trying to dog on your opinions and apologize if that's the way I came across. It's just that this revolutionary new line of thinking has been arising for the past couple of decades, and it is really becoming incredibly exciting when considering the possible answers it holds for many modern questions regarding the self and consciousness, the nature of space-time and the cosmos, dimensionality, quantum mechanics, and many other aspects of science. It's a completely different way of thinking about the world than we have been taught and seems to converge with the true essence of what religions were about before they became so corrupt, especially coinciding with Buddhism, Taoism, and many mystic and shamanistic traditions. I guess in the long run though, it doesn't matter what exactly we think of all of this since we as a species will never be able to fully grasp the complexity of reality, but we must not allow ourselves to be trapped into the little box within modern science resides. Material reductionism cannot come close to answering questions in the manner in which the monistic idealism i just presented may be able to. Good luck on your search for knowledge!
I found this blog not too long ago with a myriad of references for some of the things I was talking about. It's very hard to find a lot of this stuff put into the same place. Take the guys comments with a huge grain of salt, but his source material is very reliable. Just give it a look when you have a chance. (i don't give creedence to the chemtrail section of his though). Mainly just look at monistic idealism and consciousness. Truly bizarre and amaing! http://www.hydrogen2oxygen.net/

You told me to open my mind. Don't believe what they tell you. They've been wrong so many times. What I've told you is my theory. I've never heard anyone close to what I believe it may be. Usually on big things like this the mainstream ideas are proven wrong by someone who comes out of left field with some crazy idea. Free your mind, let your imagination run wild.

My resources are about as far from mainstream as I can get while still remaining within the scientific domain. IMO, a monistic idealistic approach is about as open minded as one can be when concerning the cosmos and reality. It completely throws away the dogmatic assumptions to which western science has clung too: 1. Matter is primary and anything is else is considered an epiphenomenon. 2. An adherence to reductionism 3. A belief that all matter is isolated instead of being interrelated. I'm as open minded as the come. This idealism actually follows Occam's razor as being the simplest of all explanations since it actually only holds one assumption: Consciousness is primary. I think you and I can agree at least on one thing: the perceivable universe came from a much stranger and eternal place. Call it the multiverse, the proto-consciousness, the quantum zero-point energy field, the divine matrix, the implicate order, the hyperdimensional holographic medium ... the list goes one forever but in actuality I think you and I are talking about the same thing just in very different ways. Our universe was just a tiny little explosion or flux in energy in an infintite sea of possible manifestations of other universes. There is a higher domain in which a universe comes to rise. And one more thing before I call it quits. Everything I have said completely confers with my meditative practices. I have been indulging in meditation for a couple hours everyday for the past three years, and all intuited knowledge and experience so far confirm the one thing I keep saying: Consciousness is primary. It is with this assumption that I can controllably induce a trance and enjoy an OBE not only exploring my house or neighborhood, but other dimensional realities. I swear to you that I have truly experienced this. If consciousness and reality were designed in a different manner, then this would not be possible. And besides controlled OBE, I have experienced a small level of samadhi, or heightened universal awareness, in which one awareness shifts from the subjective into a union of the subjective and objective. As weird as this sounds, I was meditating one night, and all of the sudden, I felt like I was becoming one with my environment. By this I mean, as i was sitting there, the table beside me, seemed to become in union with my body. As my fingers have all of their distinctive qualities as an appendage such as the texture, color, flexibility, achiness, ....so I felt all of the qualities of the table from the grain of the wood, to the smell and taste, and ridgitiy. I felt as if the table were another appendage. And then this continued with every object in the room, the the house, then my property, neighborhood, and then I lost concentration cause it was so crazy, and could not literally, hold on anymore. Neither of these two experiences could ever occur if consciousness were not primary to the fabric of reality. Believe it or not, this actually happened to me and only add to my grwoing body of evidence supporting the monistic idealism.

"That simple fact destroys the big bang theory." I'm sorry but your entirely wrong. According to the modern Big Bang theory, (at least my understanding of it,) is that the Universe, and all the energy/matter that it contains, was in a singularity. The singularity was a 4th dimensional sphere, possibly even a fifth dimensional one, and contained itself When the Big Bang occured, no energy was created or destroyed. It merely expanded outwards. Again, this is merely my understanding of it all, and I very well could be wrong, but this is how I interpreted what my physicist friends have told me.

"The singularity was a 4th dimensional sphere, possibly even a fifth dimensional one, and contained itself." Emphasis on, "contained itself." By this I mean that the third dimension was contained in a fourth dimension, which was possibly contained in a fifth dimension. At this point, all points on what we would call, "the outside," of this 4-5th dimensional sphere would also be the very most inner points of the 5th dimensional sphere. Thus meaning it contains itself, an idea nearly impossible to grasp for anyone who lives in the third dimension, because the all dimensions higher than our own cannot be perceived as anything higher than the third dimension.

+^d !

Oooh , thank you !

so true - ymmd!!!

Scientists can't figure out how to get to the bottom of the seas? People have gone to the bottom of the Mariana Trench. I can't recall their names, but it has been done. Not to mention the fact that we been to the bottom of the ocean elsewhere as well. And please, PLEASE, PLEASEEE, think and know about the subject before acting like a dick.

how wonderful, you found a story that's 3 months old and so happen to skip out on everything else that's new. Get a life stalker...

Merely a blink of an eye in the lifespan of Brahma.

You ARE the Big Bang!

so im not alone in my inability to comprehend nothingness

"So called Big Bangs are still happening all throughout the Universe."

They are? Please give us some sources for this assertion, because my astrophysicist friend and his physicist wife (who works at CERN) have never heard of that.

So you want sources for his opinions but we are supposed to take at your word that you have "freinds" that work at CERN? It's okay to just argue your opinion against his.( sigh)

thanks dude.

a woman's scorn.

I live just a handful of miles from CERN. My uncle worked there for several decades, one of the founder of CERN's daughters was one of my best friends at school, one of my cousins worked in CERN for several decades too (she was responsible for the secretary pool), the husband of my best friend works in CERN (as a computer expert and technician), I have known countless physicists and technicians from CERN over the past 50 years, I literally grew up in CERN and in the UN, and yes, one of my dear friends is an astrophysicist and his wife is indeed a physicist working in CERN, whether you like it or not.

Scorn? Where on earth did you dig that one up?

Probably a book. You read them and learn.

Uh?