Conflicting Reports on Meltdown | "We Are Assuming That a Meltdown Has Occurred," Says Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary

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- EthicalVegan
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Personal Updates:
As of March 12, at 7:57PM PT, I'm still watching reports (on CNN) that there is a "possibility" (POSSIBILITY, mind you) that there may be one -- and possibly two meltdowns -- just at the beginning stages. I'm finding nothing elsewhere, so am going to back off for a few hours or so.
And now, at 8:03PM PT, I've just received a text message from ABC News: "Japan's local gov't spokesman says partial meltdown likely under way at 2nd reactor affected by 8.9-magnitude quake."
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EthicalVegan
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http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/201131423284550745.html
Another explosion at Japan plant
Troubles continue at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear-power complex since earthquake and tsunami crippled its cooling systems.
Last Modified: 14 Mar 2011 23:50 GMTJapan's nuclear safety agency says an explosion has been heard at Unit 2 of the country's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear-power plant.
An agency spokesman said on national television that the explosion was heard at 6:10am local time (21:10 GMT) on Tuesday.
The troubles at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant began when a massive earthquake and tsunami in Japan's northeast on Friday knocked out power, crippling cooling systems needed to keep nuclear fuel from melting down.
A second explosion rocked the complex on Monday, sending a plume of smoke into the air but the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said that the reactor had not been damaged. The World Health Organisation said there was a minimal public heath risk.
However, Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO), the power company that runs the nuclear plant, said later on Monday that fuel rods at one of the reactors had become fully exposed again, meaning the water being pumped in to cool the reactors is evaporating due to the heat.
Japanese nuclear officials worked to quell concerns and announced the distribution of 230,000 units of stable iodine. Iodine can be used to help protect against thyroid cancer in the case of radioactive exposure.
Yukio Edano, Japan's chief cabinet secretary, said that a large-scale radiation leak was unlikely. He said the reactor's inner containment vessel holding the nuclear fuel rods was intact, allaying some fears of the risk to the environment.
Spectre of Chernobyl
Koichiro Genba, Japan's national strategy minister, said there was "absolutely no possibility of a Chernobyl" - a reference to the 1986 explosion at a Soviet reactor which spread radiation over swathes of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia and northern Europe and is estimated by UN agencies to have caused the deaths of thousands of people.
But some people in the affected area said they were worried at the prospects of nuclear radiation. Twenty people have tested positive for radiation exposure and that number looks likely to rise.
TEPCO said in a press release that the blast was believed to be a hydrogen explosion at the plant's No 3 reactor and that 11 workers were injured. The first explosion happened at the same plant on Saturday, at the reactor No 1.
It also said the impact of radioactive materials to the outside environment was under investigation.
Al Jazeera’s Florence Looi said the cooling system at reactor No 2 failed, leading to a build-up of pressure in the containment vessel - the same problem units one and three encountered before they exploded.
At the Fukushima plant, efforts have continued to cool the reactors with a mixture of seawater and boric acid - an untested method, underscoring the desperate nature of the situation.
The US Geological Survey upgraded on Monday the earthquake to magnitude 9.0, from 8.9, making it the world's fourth most powerful since 1900..
Humanitarian crisis
Against this backdrop of continued safety concerns, foreign aid has begun to arrive for the tsunami-affected region of Japan. Up to 70 countries have offered assistance, with help coming not only from allies like the US but also countries with more strained relations like China.
Millions of people spent a third night without water, food or heating in near-freezing temperatures along the devastated northeastern coast.
In many areas there is no running water, no power and four- to five-hour waits for petrol. People are suppressing hunger with instant noodles or rice balls while dealing with the loss of loved ones and homes.
“People are surviving on little food and water. Things are simply not coming,'' Hajime Sato, a government official in Iwate prefecture, said.
Search intensifies for Japan survivors [Al Jazeera]
In another grim development, hundreds of bodies washed ashore on Monday along the northeastern coastline, the area worst hit by the tsunami.
A Japanese police official said 1,000 bodies were found scattered across the coastline of Miyagi prefecture.
Kyodo, the Japanese news agency, reported that 2,000 bodies washed up on two shorelines in Miyagi.
"We have already begun cremations, but we can only handle 18 bodies a day. We are overwhelmed and are asking other cities to help us deal with bodies. We only have one crematorium in town," Katsuhiko Abe, an official in Soma, told the Associated Press news agency.
The official death toll from last week's twin disasters stands at almost 2,000 but many thousands of people are still missing, including some 18,000 in the city of Rikuzen-takata 18.
The Japanese markets, which opened for the first time on Monday since the disaster occurred, reacted badly, with Tokyo's Nikkei ending the day down more than six per cent.
Moving quickly to try to keep financial markets stable, the Bank of Japan said it would inject approximately $183bn into the money market to try to bring some stability.
Hiromichi Shirakawa, chief economist for Japan at Credit Suisse, has estimated the economic loss will probably be around $171-183bn just to the region hit by the quake and the tsunami.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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BreakingNews Breaking News
USS Reagan sailed by a radioactive cloud exposing members on deck to a month's worth of radiation in an hour - nytimes http://nyti.ms/hw6xl0
3/13/11 - 10:18PM PT
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Breaking news | ABC7 Los Angeles
Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 7:55PM PT
Nuclear officials have confirmed a hydrogen explosion occurred at Unit 3 of Fukushima Dai-ichi plant Monday.An official said the inner reactor container remains intact after the explosion. There is little possibility that radiation has leaked.
NHK reported that it likely occurred when a combination of hydrogen and oxygen was ignited.
The reactor had been under emergency watch for a possible explosion as pressure built up there following a hydrogen blast Saturday in the facility's Unit 1.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid [removed]
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ArchDruid [removed]
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid:
I just saw that on tv news. Dreadful.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/13/news/economy/nuclear_power_plants/index.htm?hpt=...
Japan's nuclear crisis turns spotlight on U.S. plants
fStricter safety measures sought as Japanese officials try to avert a total meltdown. By Steve Hargreaves, senior writer
March 13, 2011: 6:11 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The safety of America's nuclear reactors is being questioned as Japanese engineers scramble to avert a total meltdown at two of that country's quake-stricken power plants.
Like in Japan, some of the 104 nuclear reactors in the United States are situated along the ocean -- some in earthquake-prone areas.
The reactors are designed to withstand earthquakes, sabotage and other disasters. But the difficulty the Japanese are facing in controlling their plants is raising red flags about the safety of U.S. facilities.
"The tragic events now unfolding in Japan could very easily occur in the United States," Rep. Ed Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat who sits on the House committee overseeing nuclear power, said in a statement.
Disaster hits nation's economyMarkey has recommended several measures that he believes should be taken by the Obama administration and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
These steps include stronger safety systems in plants located near fault lines, emergency response drills that model instances when more than one disaster unfolds simultaneously, and the distribution of radiation-blocking potassium iodine pills to everyone living within 20 miles of a reactor. (Such pills are now disbursed to people within 10 miles of a reactor.)
The United States has 104 non-military nuclear reactors operating at 65 plants across the country. In addition, there are dozens of reactors, weapons labs and other nuclear facilities associated with national defense.
Most of the civilian plants are located near major population centers. They currently supply about 20% of the nation's power.
There hasn't been a new nuclear plant commissioned since the Three Mile Island meltdown in Pennsylvania in 1979, although dozens that were under construction at the time have come on line.
More recently, increased electricity use, a desire to generate homegrown energy and concern over global warming have made carbon-free nuclear power more attractive.
The government has set aside $18 billion for new nuclear plants, and President Obama wants to spend an additional $36 billion.
Federal regulators are reviewing 20 applications to build new nuclear plants, and several existing facilities have applied to extend their operating licenses.
Yet concerns over safety -- as well as cost -- continue to dog the nuclear industry.
In the United States, perhaps the most vulnerable plants are the two in California built on the Pacific coast near the San Andreas fault.
Those plants were built to withstand a magnitude 7.5 earthquake, said Robert Alvarez, a nuclear expert at the Institute for Policy studies and a former senior official at the U.S. Department of Energy.
The San Francisco quake of 1906 measured 8.3, said Alvarez, while Friday's Japanese quake was a massive 8.9.
"I don't think we should renew those operating licenses," he said.
Alvarez also said the problems at the Japanese facilities highlight the catastrophic outcome of the failure of power, pumps and other infrastructure. Such system malfunctions could happen because of an earthquake or a massive terrorist attack, such as one involving airliners.
Spokesmen for the utilities that own the California plants, Pacific Gas & Electric (PCG, Fortune 500) and Southern California Edison, said Sunday the plants are designed to meet the maximum quake projected for their immediate vicinity, which is not thought to exceed a magnitude of 6.5.
In addition, tests have shown that the country's nuclear plants could withstand an impact from an airliner, said Steve Kerekes, a spokesman for industry group the Nuclear Energy Institute.
Responding to Congressman Markey's recommendations, Kerekes said that safety systems at U.S. plants are already robust. He said that disaster planning could always be improved upon, but that studies show there's no need to distribute iodine pills beyond the current 10 mile radius. To top of page
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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CNN Breaking News (3:57PM PT)...
The IAEA said investigators in Japan found radiation levels have returned to normal at the Onagawa nuclear power plant.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid [removed]
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ArchDruid [removed]
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Wetdog
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ArchDruid:
When you are talking about a nuclear core meltdown----it only takes once.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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ArchDruid [removed]
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ArchDruid [removed]
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simplecj
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ArchDruid:
You keep posting the same thing and incorrectly calling it a 9.0 mag earthquake. I have yet to see anything in the news saying that. Pretty sure it was settled at 8.9. Doesn't seem like a huge difference, but on the Richter Scale it is.
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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ArchDruid [removed]
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simplecj: This comment was removed by its owner.
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ArchDruid [removed]
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simplecj
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ArchDruid:
Ok, maybe you're right. I didn't think I needed to Google it. I've been following this story and even reports from today are still saying 8.9
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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ArchDruid [removed]
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simplecj: This comment was removed by its owner.
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ArchDruid [removed]
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simplecj
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ArchDruid:
Wow... someone needs to tell all the major news networks. I'd have though I'd see a headline saying it'd been upgraded. I know people were talking about it the other day, but everyone keeps printing 8.9. Oh well, thanks for straightening me out. =)
EDIT: USGS still has it listed as 8.9: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqinthenews/2011/usc0001xgp/
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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Pheena187
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simplecj:
9.0 Japan earthquake shifted Earth on its axis
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-science-2011031...
- 1 year ago
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Pheena187
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EthicalVegan
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simplecj:
Hi! I've been seeing/hearing it on the major networks, now on then. Ever since Japan released the "upgrade," I've been hearing anchors stating that, according to the USGS, it's still an 8.9 but, according to the Japanese Geological Survey, it's now considered a 9.0. It can be quite confusing, indeed.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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simplecj
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12723092
..........................And at Chernobyl - a reactor design regarded in the West as inherently unsafe, and which would not have been sanctioned in any non-Soviet bloc nation - the environmental impacts occurred through explosive release of material into the air, not from a melting reactor core.
To keep things in perspective, no nuclear accident has caused anything approaching the 1,000 short-term fatalities stemming from Friday's earthquake and tsunami.
............................
The most important factor is summed up in a bulletin from the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) that owns the facility: "Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)."
Control rods shut off the nuclear reaction. Heat continues to be produced at that stage through the decay of radioactive nuclei - but that process in turn will begin to tail off.
##############
Stop the fear mongering. We are not going to have another Chernobyl on our hands, these reactors have far better containment and control systems in place that will prevent anything as catastrophic as what happened in Russia. Chernobyl was unsafe to begin with, Japan takes these things a bit more seriously.
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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Wetdog
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simplecj:
Ahhhhhhh..................so that is why it exploded! It is all part of the plan............
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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simplecj
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Wetdog:
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/110312-reactor-vlg-5p.g...
That was not a nuclear explosion and did not damage the actual core. The explosion happened in the upper section of the tower and did not damage the lower containment section. Check and see for yourself... it was likely caused by ignition of a gas build up from the exhaust system or something like that. If the lower section looked like the upper section I'd say there's a problem, but that's not the case.
Every hour that passes ensures that any major meltdown will be avoided. The cores have been shut down, but it takes time to stop the reaction.
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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Wetdog
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simplecj:
-------" That was not a nuclear explosion and did not damage the actual core."----
I never said it was. It was a hydrogen explosion caused by th breakdown of superheated steam into oxygen and hydrogen.
-------" . If the lower section looked like the upper section I'd say there's a problem, but that's not the case."-------
Then you'd better call the experts on the scene----they are saying that they can't determine the extent of the damage because no one can see what is going on due to intense radiation.
------" Every hour that passes ensures that any major meltdown will be avoided. The cores have been shut down, but it takes time to stop the reaction."--------
Experts are assuming that at least two partial meltdowns have occurred. This, plus collateral damage have the potential to release massive amounts of radiation.
-------" While tritium has several different experimentally determined values of its half-life, the National Institute of Standards and Technology lists 4,500±8 days (approximately 12.32 years).[1] It decays into helium-3 by beta decay as in this nuclear equation:"------
We are talking about years---not hours.
We have been, and are being lied to. It should not be too hard to figure out.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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simplecj
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Wetdog:
bla bla blah.... whatever, not going to argue about this. My point was it's too early to know exactly what the outcome will be. We will see...
- 1 year ago
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simplecj
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PigFarmington
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Did anyone see Lieberman on Face the Nation?
"We have to wait and absorb this news before building more Nuclear plants in the US"
In other words: We have to wait until people forget about this, and never ever learn from history and our mistakes.
He also said that all US nuclear plants can withstand earthquakes.
I live in WI, I have had enough lies lately to last me an entire presidential election.
- 1 year ago
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PigFarmington
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Wetdog
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PigFarmington:
------" He also said that all US nuclear plants can withstand earthquakes."----------
The Japanese were far better prepared for earthquakes than we are.
Also, the Japanese reactors are newer and more advanced than ours.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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damush
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The Clash: Should I stay or should I go....!!
- 1 year ago
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damush
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ozoneocean
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They have a lot more resources on hand to deal with this disaster than Turkey, Pakistan or Indonesia did when they suffered their's in the last few years.
I believe they'll come out of this much better than most.I really hope they manage to take care of those reactors though, it really seems like they're a bit out of their depth and should really have some international help there.
- 1 year ago
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ozoneocean
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Kitten_of_D00M
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It is imperative that we are told the truth about our risks by the government. Under Bush, first responders to the 9/11 disaster were lied to about the dangers of the air quality, and ended up breathing in asbestos, among other toxic agents. My TV tube failed a couple of weeks ago, so I've been depending on internet updates for info until I can replace it. Does anyone have a link connecting the reactor emissions to the Jet Stream? Aside from helping Japan, this should be our greatest concern, as the Jet Stream travels from west to east toward the US from Japan and is so direct it is used by airlines to speed travel and conserve fuel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greatcircle_Jetstream_routes.svg
- 1 year ago
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Kitten_of_D00M
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ArchDruid [removed]
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ArchDruid [removed]
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remanns
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ArchDruid:
Thanks for the update. +^d
- 1 year ago
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remanns
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ozoneocean
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ArchDruid:
All reports I've seen measure it at 8.9. You don't round up or down with the Richter scale because it's exponential: the jump between 2 and three is FAR more than the jump between 1 and 2.
That's just how it is. - 1 year ago
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ozoneocean
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ArchDruid [removed]
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ozoneocean: This comment was removed by its owner.
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ArchDruid [removed]
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid:
Heartbreaking.... again and again and again...
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/japan-fukushima-nuclear-reactor.htm...
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/14/world/14nuclear4_span/14nuclear4_...
The New York Times
March 14, 2011 - 1:51AM PT
Radioactive Releases in Japan Could Last Months, Experts Say
PART ONE...
By DAVID E. SANGER and MATTHEW L. WALD
WASHINGTON — As the scale of Japan’s nuclear crisis begins to come to light, experts in Japan and the United States say the country is now facing a cascade of accumulating problems that suggest that radioactive releases of steam from the crippled plants could go on for weeks or even months.
The emergency flooding of two stricken reactors with seawater and the resulting steam releases are a desperate step intended to avoid a much bigger problem: a full meltdown of the nuclear cores in two reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. On Monday, an explosion blew the roof off the second reactor, not damaging the core, officials said, but presumably leaking more radiation.
So far, Japanese officials have said the melting of the nuclear cores in the two plants is assumed to be “partial,” and the amount of radioactivity measured outside the plants, though twice the level Japan considers safe, has been relatively modest.
But Pentagon officials reported Sunday that helicopters flying 60 miles from the plant picked up small amounts of radioactive particulates — still being analyzed, but presumed to include cesium-137 and iodine-121 — suggesting widening environmental contamination.
In a country where memories of a nuclear horror of a different sort in the last days of World War II weigh heavily on the national psyche and national politics, the impact of continued venting of long-lasting radioactivity from the plants is hard to overstate.
Japanese reactor operators now have little choice but to periodically release radioactive steam as part of an emergency cooling process for the fuel of the stricken reactors that may continue for a year or more even after fission has stopped. The plant’s operator must constantly try to flood the reactors with seawater, then release the resulting radioactive steam into the atmosphere, several experts familiar with the design of the Daiichi facility said.
That suggests that the tens of thousands of people who have been evacuated may not be able to return to their homes for a considerable period, and that shifts in the wind could blow radioactive materials toward Japanese cities rather than out to sea.
Re-establishing normal cooling of the reactors would require restoring electric power — which was cut in the earthquake and tsunami — and now may require plant technicians working in areas that have become highly contaminated with radioactivity.
More steam releases also mean that the plume headed across the Pacific could continue to grow. On Sunday evening, the White House sought to tamp down concerns, saying that modeling done by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had concluded that “Hawaii, Alaska, the U.S. Territories and the U.S. West Coast are not expected to experience any harmful levels of radioactivity.”
But all weekend, after a series of intense interchanges between Tokyo and Washington and the arrival of the first American nuclear experts in Japan, officials said they were beginning to get a clearer picture of what went wrong over the past three days. And as one senior official put it, “under the best scenarios, this isn’t going to end anytime soon.”
The essential problem is the definition of “off” in a nuclear reactor. When the nuclear chain reaction is stopped and the reactor shuts down, the fuel is still producing about 6 percent as much heat as it did when it was running, caused by continuing radioactivity, the release of subatomic particles and of gamma rays.
Usually when a reactor is first shut down, an electric pump pulls heated water from the vessel to a heat exchanger, and cool water from a river or ocean is brought in to draw off that heat.
But at the Japanese reactors, after losing electric power, that system could not be used. Instead the operators are dumping seawater into the vessel and letting it cool the fuel by boiling. But as it boils, pressure rises too high to pump in more water, so they have to vent the vessel to the atmosphere, and feed in more water, a procedure known as “feed and bleed.”
When the fuel was intact, the steam they were releasing had only modest amounts of radioactive material, in a nontroublesome form. With damaged fuel, that steam is getting dirtier.
CONTINUED...
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan:
CONTINUED...
PART TWO...
Another potential concern is that some Japanese reactors (as well as some in France and Germany) run on a mixed fuel known as mox, or mixed oxide, that includes reclaimed plutonium. It is not clear whether the stricken reactors are among those, but if they are, the steam they release could be more toxic.
Christopher D. Wilson, a reactor operator and later a manager at Exelon’s Oyster Creek plant, near Toms River, N.J., said, “normally you would just re-establish electricity supply, from the on-site diesel generator or a portable one.” Portable generators have been brought into Fukushima, he said.
Fukushima was designed by General Electric, as Oyster Creek was around the same time, and the two plants are similar. The problem, he said, was that the hookup is done through electric switching equipment that is in a basement room flooded by the tsunami, he said. “Even though you have generators on site, you have to get the water out of the basement,” he said.
Another nuclear engineer with long experience in reactors of this type, who now works for a government agency, was emphatic. “To completely stop venting, they’re going to have to put some sort of equipment back in service,” he said. He asked not to be named because his agency had not authorized him to speak.
The central problem arises from a series of failures that began after the tsunami. It easily overcame the sea walls surrounding the Fukushima plant. It swamped the diesel generators, which were placed in a low-lying area, apparently because of misplaced confidence that the sea walls would protect them. At 3:41 p.m. Friday, roughly an hour after the quake and just around the time the region would have been struck by the giant waves, the generators shut down. According to Tokyo Electric Power Company, the plant switched to an emergency cooling system that operates on batteries, but these were soon depleted.
Inside the plant, according to industry executives and American experts who received briefings over the weekend, there was deep concern that spent nuclear fuel that was kept in a “cooling pond” inside one of the plants had been exposed and begun letting off potentially deadly gamma radiation. Then water levels inside the reactor cores began to fall. While estimates vary, several officials and industry experts said Sunday that the top four to nine feet of the nuclear fuel in the core and control rods appear to have been exposed to the air — a condition that that can quickly lead to melting, and ultimately to full meltdown.
At 8 p.m., just as Americans were waking up to news of the earthquake, the government declared an emergency, contradicting its earlier reassurances that there were no major problems. But the chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, stressed that there had been no radiation leak.
But one was coming: Workers inside the reactors saw that levels of coolant water were dropping. They did not know how severely. “The gauges that measure the water level don’t appear to be giving accurate readings,” one American official said.
What the workers knew by Saturday morning was that cooling systems at a nearby power plant, Fukushima Daini, were also starting to fail, for many of the same reasons. And the pressure in the No. 1 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi was rising so fast that engineers knew they would have to relieve it by letting steam escape.
Shortly before 4 p.m., camera crews near the Daiichi plant captured what appears to have been an explosion at the No. 1 reactor — apparently caused by a buildup of hydrogen. It was dramatic television but not especially dangerous — except to the workers injured by the force of the blast.
The explosion was in the outer container, leaving the main reactor vessel unharmed, according to Tokyo Electric’s reports to the International Atomic Energy Agency. (The walls of the outer building blew apart, as they are designed to do, rather than allow a buildup of pressure that could damage the reactor vessel.)
But the dramatic blast was also a warning sign of what could happen inside the reactor vessel if the core was not cooled. The International Atomic Energy Agency said that “as a countermeasure to limit damage to the reactor core,” Tokyo Electric proposed injecting seawater mixed with boron — which can choke off a nuclear reaction — and it began to do that at 10:20 p.m. Saturday.
It was a desperation move: The corrosive seawater will essentially disable the 40-year-old plant; the decision to flood the core amounted to a decision to abandon the facility. But even that operation has not been easy.
To pump in the water, the Japanese have apparently tried used firefighting equipment — hardly the usual procedure. But forcing the seawater inside the containment vessel has been difficult because the pressure in the vessel has become so great.
One American official likened the process to “trying to pour water into an inflated balloon,” and said that on Sunday it was “not clear how much water they are getting in, or whether they are covering the cores.”
The problem was compounded because gauges in the reactor seemed to have been damaged in the earthquake or tsunami, making it impossible to know just how much water is in the core.
And workers at the pumping operation are presumed to be exposed to radiation; several workers, according to Japanese reports, have been treated for radiation poisoning. It is not clear how severe their exposure was.
Keith Bradsher contributed reporting from Hong Kong, Hiroko Tabuchi from Tokyo and Henry Fountain from New York.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com//images/2011/03/12/world/asia/reactor190b.png
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Wetdog
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ArchDruid:
-------" The disaster area is very cold especially over night temps drop to zero or -32F."----
FYI----Japan uses the metric measurement system(as does the rest of the world). 0*C = 32* Fahrenheit----the freezing point of water.
Maybe a little nit picky---but just to keep things accurate.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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Tartan10
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Great to hear, have you had any more shakes of late, is that settled down?
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
How could it POSSIBLY have "settled down?" These aftershocks (and they've had a couple of additional classified earthquakes, as well, mind you) will go on for many, many, many months. You've already mentioned you're still feeling aftershocks in Christchurch, New Zealand -- this is no different.
Just read about plate tectonics, and surely you'll catch on. Or just watch a good news program (BBC, Al Jazeera, sometimes CNN) to catch up on the news directly, and hear all about the continuing aftershocks.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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Tartan10:
I know the after shakes continue, what I meant was, at least it was not as high and not an imediate threat any time soon. We are still shaking in Christchurch, not as severe and no real concern although shakes are still happening. It has settled compared to what it was.
Thank you for all the info, I appreciate it, and will be learning. So much we all want to know now, thank you for you updates also, it is still a way to go. - 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Nephwrack
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Immerse the suit and other items and leave
soaking for 15 minutes.
IMPORTANT
A duplicate set of undergarments should be worn
underneath the protective suit to avoid skin
irritation. The protective suit may be made from
‘impermeable’ materials such as PVC plastic or
rubber, however such materials trap body heat
and may cause excessive sweating and heat
exhaustion. - 1 year ago
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Nephwrack
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Nephwrack
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Nephwrack:
heavy duty rubber gloves and overboots also recommended, as is an NBC rated gas mask/respirator. if you can afford one, buy one instead as i have not vetted this particular method yet.
- 1 year ago
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Nephwrack
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Nephwrack
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Nephwrack:
http://www.armygasmasks.com/Army-Chemical-NBC-protective-suit-p/aaagas-06.htm
you'll also want an NBC rated gas mask.
- 1 year ago
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Nephwrack
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EthicalVegan
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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhzf48PC8R1qz5ew6o1_500.jpg
2002 File Photo: A look at the Number 4 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan, photographed September 2002. (Reuters)
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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royulery
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just one particle of radiation can cause cancer, it probably won't. the odds of a high energy particle hitting genetic material just so, as to drive a cell crazy, is small. exposure levels are like lottery odds, one will do but it's probably a billion. real danger comes from radioactive iodine, thorium and others that are absorbed and incorporated in the body. taking iodine supplements will flood the lymph glands to the point where the body will pass any hot iodine out.
one of my high school cheerleaders was killed by radioactive iodine. at a rally a spokesman for the atomic energy commission used her in a demonstration of safe atomic energy. without telling her he gave her radioactive iodine in a glass of water and put a geiger counter to her throat. in a second the geiger counter went wild, iodine is absorbed that fast. the girl, candy, died of throat cancer the following year, 1970. - 1 year ago
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royulery
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JonRaymond
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royulery:
Only in America
- 1 year ago
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JonRaymond
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Tartan10
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royulery:
Thank you royulery, not happy to hear about what happened to the Lass. How sad, folk are exposed all the time to radiation, we can not avoid it. Thank you for the information, it is always good to get your facts right. I appreciate it. Those poor people, the fear they must be going through, yet, their humility shows so clearly.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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Wet dog, thanks for that. Radiation at the dentist too is bad news and xray machines at hospitals. I would imagine in this case, it is a lot higher than either.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Nephwrack
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Tartan10:
umm yeah. and considering a LOT of the world's food comes from the west coast, get ready to pay more at the grocery store if shit goes stupid. like, a lot more.
- 1 year ago
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Nephwrack
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Wetdog
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Tartan10:
It means that any other Xrays or other radiation exposure for the rest of your life is IN ADDITION to what you have already received.
Each time radiation is released, and background radiation levels are increased---it means that the number of Xrays or radiation emission tests or treatments you can safely receive decreases.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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Nephwrack
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great, tried to volunteer to go over there, but red cross says no, (no big surprise) but they want money. but judging by the job they did in Haiti and New Orleans i guess they have it handled. i mean, i couldn't possibly move rubble or supplies without speaking Japanese or working for the red cross, right? right? they must have tens of thousands of japanese-speaking emts on hand for just such an emergency. fuck. if the power plants have been compromised i might as well go over there anyway, i'll be getting the fallout sooner or later. i'd rather live on my feet than die on my knees.
- 1 year ago
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Nephwrack
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Angeliron
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Nephwrack:
Nicely stated!
- 1 year ago
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Angeliron
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EthicalVegan
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Angeliron:
And frustrating as all hell.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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alexandrek [removed]
- This comment was removed by its owner.
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alexandrek [removed]
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Angeliron
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alexandrek:
Best of luck on your journey, be safe!
- 1 year ago
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Angeliron
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EthicalVegan
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AP The Associated Press
From Twitter...
Japanese government warns of fresh explosion threat from another nuclear unit: http://apne.ws/g8bl2d #earthquake #tsunami -JM
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Wetdog
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Watching the reports on television----I notice that people are being deceived.
They keep talking about "harmless" levels of radioactivity.
If the reports are accurate---the radioactivity levels are indeed low.
However, ANY radioactive exposure is harmful.
The effects of radioactive exposure are cummulative. Even if you are exposed to low levels----how long you are exposed is the critical factor. It is not a matter of a high level of exposure----then it is gone and over with. You carry the results of that exposure for the rest of your life. Even low dose exposure over a long period of time causes damage that does not go away once the exposure is stopped. Once you are exposed, you are exposed to that level for the rest of your life.
- 1 year ago
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Wetdog
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EthicalVegan
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Wetdog:
Thank you for explaining this so succinctly and clearly.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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riverratt50
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Update, 13-Mar-2011, 0200 UT
There are lots of reports swirling on the internet regarding the condition of the nuclear reactors at two locations (near each other – see map above), many reports conflicting and interchanging facts between Fukushima I and II (Daiichi and Daini) as well as ‘reactor numbers’, e.g. 1, 2, 3, … interchanging with location numbers. Sloppy reporting I suppose.
In any event, what we do know is basically this…
Evacuation of 210,000 people within 12 miles of the Fukushima I (Daiichi) nuclear power plant.
Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant (Daiichi), has 6 nuclear reactors.
Unit 1, loss of cooling, explosion of outer containment shell, radioactive iodine and cesium detected ‘outside’, admitting ‘partial’ core meltdown – but contained within reactor enclosure, flooding the reactor with seawater as a ‘last resort’ to attempt to avert a full meltdown, internal pressure is reported as high while temperatures are ‘officially’ reported as dropping, unknown regarding ongoing meltdown situation
Unit 3, cooling system has reportedly failed, releasing excess radioactive steam, reportedly considering or attempting seawater flooding to avert a meltdown
Fukushima II Nuclear Power Plant (Daini), has 4 nuclear reactors.
Reports point towards 3 reactors in trouble (or were in trouble) there with cooling systems. Details sketchy on Fukushima II.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/west-coast-usa-danger-if-japan-nuclear-rea...
- 1 year ago
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riverratt50
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EthicalVegan
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riverratt50:
You and Wetdog deserve huge kudos. Your clarifications are perfect, and MUCH appreciated!
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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That is frightening to see... the masks.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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I was reading about the Christchurch New Zealand plates being overloaded, it could cause a huge earthquake for Wellington. We are still shaking here in NZ also, and it is being felt more and more around the island North and South. So, inbetween reading about Japan and elsewhere, I got myself confused. Plus, the phone rang in between answering.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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Sorry, I am reading way too many articles at once. Reading about the plates now, thank you for that.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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ArchDruid [removed]
- This comment was removed by its owner.
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ArchDruid [removed]
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EthicalVegan
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ArchDruid:
Wow. Good one!
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-scene-20110313,0...
The people must be so afraid. - 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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Presumption planted a feather in the ground, thinking, it would grow into a hen.
I guess a lot of us are presuming the worse here, better to err on the right side.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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Now I am worried reading this article.
http://theboldcorsicanflame.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/march-11th-2011-consequence...
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&ir...
CNN...
Japanese authorities rush to save lives, avert nuclear crisis
By the CNN Wire Staff
March 12, 2011 10:08 p.m. ESTWhat can Japan do about its reactor?
Shirakawa, Japan (CNN) -- Japanese authorities are operating on the presumption that possible meltdowns are under way at two nuclear reactors, a government official said Sunday, adding that there have been no indications yet of hazardous emissions of radioactive material into the atmosphere.
The attempts to avert a possible nuclear crisis, centered around the Fukushima Daiichi facility in northeast Japan, came as rescuers frantically scrambled to find survivors following the country's strongest-ever earthquake and a devastating tsunami that, minutes later, brought crushing walls of water that wiped out nearly everything in their paths.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters there is a "possibility" of a meltdown at the plant's No. 1 reactor, adding, "It is inside the reactor. We can't see." He then added that authorities are also "assuming the possibility of a meltdown" at the facility's No. 3 reactor.
The efforts to control the temperature of atomic material, by pumping in sea water and boron, are taking place at the same facility where four were hurt late Saturday in an explosion. Edano said only a "minor level" of radiation has been released into the environment -- saying it all came from a controlled release of radioactive steam, insisting there have been no leaks.
"We do not believe it is harmful to human health," he said.
About 180,000 people are being evacuated from within 10 to 20 kilometers (6 to 12 miles) of the Daiichi plant -- which is in addition to the thousands that have already been taken away who live closer by. More than 30,000 more people were being evacuated from their homes within 10 kilometers of the Fukushima Daiini nuclear facility located in the same prefecture.
The news of the possible meltdowns came as rescue efforts resumed Sunday morning in areas devastated by the 8.9-magnitude quake and subsequent tsunami, which unleashed a wall of seawater that decimated entire neighborhoods.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Schnookums
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This from NHK World English ((Japan Broadcasting Corporation))
- 1 year ago
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Schnookums
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EthicalVegan
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Schnookums:
That's some useful information, schnookums - thanks!
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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totally_dilapidated
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.
assuming?
that kind of thinking doesn't hold up in the weakest of papers presented
that would be a fail gradei would like the facts of the matter thank you
- 1 year ago
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totally_dilapidated
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EthicalVegan
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totally_dilapidated:
This time 'round, though, it's the Chief Cabinet Secretary who's doing the assuming. Here are his quotes:
'Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters there is a "possibility" of a meltdown at the plant's No. 1 reactor, adding, "It is inside the reactor. We can't see."
'He then added that authorities are also "assuming the possibility of a meltdown" at the facility's No. 3 reactor.'
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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totally_dilapidated
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EthicalVegan:
well
assuming has a financial implication for me
that means i go out and buy sheet plastic and blue tape and
potassium iodide and food and water
and then
vent cover over every window and door in my house
and hunker downi'm poor as a church mouse
i do not want to spend the money unless i have too
see? - 1 year ago
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totally_dilapidated
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chew_chew
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Awful news. Going to turn on the TV now.
My heart goes out to those folks in Japan.
- 1 year ago
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chew_chew
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EthicalVegan
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CNN BREAKING NEWS:
"We are assuming that a meltdown has occurred" at a nuclear power reactor, Japan's chief Cabinet secretary says.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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Are all the people being given Iodine? Should the Hawii people not be given it also, just in case. Plus, the other island folk living in the Pacific?
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
I think those of us on the West Coast (of the USA, Canada and Mexico) will need those potassium iodide tablets next.
There is no program set up to dispense such tablets.
The first people in need are those throughout Japan. I'd like to suppose that Japan, once again, is better prepared for such a disaster. I know that Doctors Without Borders is actively working to help.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan:
So true, I think a lot of people are going to need those. The Russian Melt Down, driffted as far as the Highlands in Scotland. The air would carry the fallout easily around the globe.
It does make you question, chem trails, dispersants on the gulf sea's, birds dying and fish.
Cattle dropping dead, dolphins beaching, and sink holes appearing. The whole planet is so destroyed.. I still don't think it is over yet, NZ is still shaking, and the shakes are being felt more and more in other regions. Trying to find a decent article on Sink Holes...There is most definately a connection. I feel like running back to Scotland *S* But, they say that parts of Scotland are going to go into the sea... as like with the islands in the Pacific. Where is safe? - 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
Why your interest in sinkholes, specifically?
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan:
The sink holes appearing all over are a concern, from what I am reading, they are connected. Just trying to connect the dots here, there has to be something more going on.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
By now, you've read everything, so now understand why that part of New Zealand is still having aftershocks.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
Google "sinkholes" - that's a start. And don't believe everything you read, either. Always, always check out multiple sources, and USGS is a good place, oftentimes, to begin. Still wish I understood what you meant by "they" -- what are/were your sources?
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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If the plates are out of kilter, will it stop? Those poor people don't need anymore to add onto what they have already got. This is just shocking...
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
In simplistic terms (and from a layperson), tectonic plates are always going to be "out of kilter." And that's why our earth will continue to have earthquakes. The plates shift and "slide" back and forth or "overlap" one another... and sometimes they actually yank away from each other.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan:
They say the plates are over loaded, what does that mean? If you check out a compass, it is no longer facing north... It has shifted more than just a tad I think. Over loading of anything causes a breakdown, or explosion... Scary to think what is next. I really do believe that their is more to come.
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
Who is/are "they"? And what are "they" meaning by "overloaded"? Can you give us your sources, please?
Please go here and read up on plate tectonics:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/geology/tectonics.html
And then go here:
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
And then there's this, all about plate boundaries, presented by NASA (a reliable source, to be sure)...
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
http://scign.jpl.nasa.gov/learn/plate4.htm
And, finally, this...
The theory of plate tectonics has done for geology what Charles Darwin's theory of evolution did for biology. It provides geology with a comprehensive theory that explains "how the Earth works." The theory was formulated in the 1960s and 1970s as new information was obtained about the nature of the ocean floor, Earth's ancient magnetism, the distribution of volcanoes and earthquakes, the flow of heat from Earth's interior, and the worldwide distribution of plant and animal fossils.
The theory states that Earth's outermost layer, the lithosphere, is broken into 7 large, rigid pieces called plates: the African, North American, South American, Eurasian, Australian, Antarctic, and Pacific plates. Several minor plates also exist, including the Arabian, Nazca, and Philippines plates.
The plates are all moving in different directions and at different speeds (from 2 cm to 10 cm per year--about the speed at which your fingernails grow) in relationship to each other. The plates are moving around like cars in a demolition derby, which means they sometimes crash together, pull apart, or sideswipe each other. The place where the two plates meet is called a plate boundary. Boundaries have different names depending on how the two plates are moving in relationship to each other:
crashing: Convergent Boundaries,
pulling apart: Divergent Boundaries,
or sideswiping: Transform Boundaries - 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan:
Three types of plate movement:
CRASHING: Convergent boundaries
PULLING APART: Divergent boundaries
SIDESWIPING: Transform boundaries - 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan:
What happens when they yank away from one another?
- 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan:
Thank you, really enjoying the lesson here. I never did take notice of the plates until now.
Now I want to know what does make the planet tic. I still need a few more answers in regard to the effect of the Moon controlling the Oceans. I want to know what part the moon plays in all of this havoc with the Oceans. Controlling the tides and what nots. - 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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Tartan10
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Tartan10:
It is a fact that when the moon is closer, the equatorial bulge is bigger. This must have an effect on the tectonics. I really am curious as to how it all ties in together.
Unatural happenings abound all over the lands now.
Sun flares I understand, but, the Moon... I would like to know more about.
Anyone like to shed a light here. - 1 year ago
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Tartan10
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
If you read and watch the material from the links I gave you, you'll find out for yourself. I'm too busy to play teacher today... sorry!
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
What makes our earth tick? Well, Google's a great way to start. Just type in whatever you think will get you some answers -- they're out there.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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EthicalVegan
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Tartan10:
Google something such as "moon tides," and take it from there.
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan
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kennymotown
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A 6.2 after shock has just rocked the area in Japan at only 24 km depth!
- 1 year ago
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kennymotown
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EthicalVegan
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kennymotown:
I was watching a live interview with a writer, living in Tokyo, when that particular aftershock hit. He said he's trying to work out a way to get his family back to the USA, but he is choosing to remain behind to continue his reports.
ArchDruid, I can only assume that, further south -- where you are -- you can feel those larger aftershocks, correct?
- 1 year ago
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EthicalVegan