Upstream | April 05, 2011 | 77 comments

Evangelical Liberty University received half a billion dollars in federal aid money

source: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/05/liberty_university_federal_money

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bambuu
Liberty University, the evangelical private Christian school founded by dead apartheid-supporting bigot Jerry Falwell, received $445 million in federal financial aid money last year. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting, by the way, received $420 million from the federal government.

That massive sum was thanks to the growth of Liberty's online program, which enrolled 52,000 students last year. The school is the number one recipient of Pell grant money in the state of Virginia. While it may seem like the federal government is basically subsidizing this formerly financially challenged ultra-conservative religious private school, LU's executive director of financial aid sees it differently:

For Ritz — a financial aid veteran who got his start at a small Bible college — Liberty’s use of federal financial aid does not run counter to the university’s conservative values. Liberty does not receive the federal money directly, Ritz said, but through students, who use it to pay for tuition, room and board and other expenses.

“These funds are authorized by Congress and Congress is elected by voters. . . I’ve always been in the position where I believe I’m a steward of those federal funds. I’m a steward of tax-payer money.”

And I'm sure ACORN, Planned Parenthood, and NPR feel the same way.

Liberty University -- where the biology department teaches Young Earth Creationism -- is, astoundingly, an accredited school of higher learning.

The school was broke and in debt until God killed Falwell for the insurance money.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/05/liberty_university_federa...
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77 comments // Evangelical Liberty University received half a billion dollars in federal aid money

  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  

    • Falwell is dead, has been for a while, and while I had no use for his effort to create a "Christian" government with ol Ronnie, I suspect not a single person commenting on this article has a clue what Liberty University was actually doing with the money they got from the federal government.

      Liberty University was one of the few universities in this nation that was willing to go into the prison system, work with prisoners, and give them a chance to work towards a diploma and/or college degree. You might say, why don't they help people on the outside? I'm pretty sure that if people on the outside actually want to go to Liberty University, they probably have a program set up to help them.

      I may not have liked Jerry Falwell, but having seen the inside of some of Virginia's prisons, I can say unequivocally, most of the men housed in those prisons don't have a chance of staying out, once they do get out. The biggest reason being, they have no education or marketable skills, and a lot of them have no friends or family left when they get out, so as far as I am concerned, Liberty University was doing a good thing with that federal aid money....unlike Haliburton, Blackwater and the rest of the vipers drinking at the federal money pool.

    • 1 year ago
  • samthesixth
  • SIBob
    • +5
      SIBob  
    • Image

    • Separation of church and state is one of the fundamental principles of our country. The right-wing and the religious always like to trot out the founding fathers whenever it suits them, well how about now? Freedom of religious choice should also include freedom from religious choice. That means that my tax dollars should not go to funding someone else’s religious education. The fundamentalists like to tell women how to live vis-a-vis abortions, well what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
      http://current.com/news/93134244_they-want-a-government-shutdown-let-s-give-it-t...

    • 1 year ago
  • Paratus
    • -3
      Paratus  

    • A LOT of students go to Liberty via the online program. It is a great program and a good use of the money they receive. I thought libs wanted our tax dollars to be invested in education or do they only want the bucks invested in their twisted "correct" education? The hatred toward this school because of its religious ties is really sad.

    • 1 year ago
  • digitctzn
    • +2
      digitctzn  
    • Paratus:

      You can't be that naive or ignorant. There is a very good reason for the separation of church and state. Surely, even you can understand the implication of ANY form of gov that sponsors ONE religion over all others?

      It is precisely because, as you put it, of its "ties to religion", that the school should not and must not receive public/federal funds.

    • 1 year ago
  • telcod
    • +2
      telcod  
    • Paratus:

      Missed the Constitutional principle here. Personally, I have less problems with religion in politics than I have with politics in religion. At least religion is attempting to grapple with moral issues, while politics is run and funded by Godless corporate scum. That includes GOP and the Democrats, buba.

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
  • mikeywes
    • 0
      mikeywes  

    • this right wing madrassa is in the same league as phoenix and the other online money schools that prey on our military and youth.....I am sure some good comes out of going there but I would be hard pressed to see a positive.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • mikeywes:

      Well maybe you don't know where to look. I worked with an online graduate program in political science for one of the top universities in this nation, and the military students I had were the crème de la crème. They were outstanding students, brilliant, disciplined and hard working. This was almost 10 years ago, but the military students were all grateful for the chance to earn a graduate degree online. I remember one guy who was in Iraq at the time, and he had to go around the city searching for an open internet cafe to submit his assignments, but he always did. He was dedicated and determined, and he graduated with honors.

    • 1 year ago
  • audiotruther
  • jhthampton
    • +1
      jhthampton  

    • FYI, all USDE Accredited schools that offer Title IV Financial Aid of any kind receive Pell Grant Money but the money is given to the student, not the school, as needed by individual need. The reason LU rec'd this much is because it is one of the top two schools in the nation in attendance and has 50K active students. All private colleges, just like Harvard, receive Title IV aid for students. Before Federal Aid was available for students, you had to have $50 to $110K to pay for an education. Just because some students at LU study religion doesn't mean they should not receive aid. I won't defend some of LU's political fodder, but they have a terrific law school :)

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
  • Paratus
  • hanzdogy
    • +1
      hanzdogy  
    • Paratus:

      Church and State. Persecuted said the line was church and state. The line that was crossed is the separation between church and state. Church and state.

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
  • Incredulous
  • Persecuted
    • 0
      Persecuted  
    • Incredulous:

      it means that the government shall make no rulings or laws for or against churches or religious institutions of any kind. meaning it shall neither endorse nor prohibit a church or place of religion. giving half a billion dollars to an evangelical "school" is definitely making a ruling for a religious institution. a big ruling

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • Persecuted:

      "giving half a billion dollars to an evangelical "school" is definitely making a ruling for a religious institution. a big ruling"

      NOT!

      That type of federal money goes to all kinds of schools, public, private, secular and non-secular. They are funds students apply for and use at the school of their choosing. The article is completely misleading, particularly for those who want to be misled.

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
    • 0
      Persecuted  
    • Incredulous:

      ok so the article is misleading... so i went to liberty university's website... and this is what i found...

      Liberty University, celebrating 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ, offers over 140 exceptional undergraduate and graduate programs on its central Virginia campus and globally online.

      Weekly Campus Church and Convocation services connect students with their Creator through passionate worship and powerful messages firmly rooted in Biblical truth.

      With several distinct sounds and one clear mission, Liberty University’s Ministry Teams perform at events and church services throughout the country to praise God and act as ambassadors for Liberty

      These classes are designed to establish undergraduate students in the Christian worldview, and to equip them to apply it through a biblically centered decision making process in relation to various contemporary issues. It is also intended to introduce students to the basic principles of Christian responsibility and church and community life and service

      This course is designed to aid the student in the development of a biblical worldview. This will involve an introduction to critical thinking, an evaluation of contemporary moral philosophies, and an affirmation of absolute truth. Students will be challenged to integrate a biblical worldview into their Christian/Community Service.

      wow... this is sounding not quite so secular all of the sudden... but wait... you said that this article was misleading... but this IS a religious institution... so... i say my tax dollars go to poor women for family planning and contraception and women's health...and not some crazy non science based "education"

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • Persecuted:

      I'm not going to disagree with you, it IS a Christian school, and if you happen to stop in Lynchburg, VA anywhere near the university it feels like you stepped off the planet and right into the middle of a Stepford wive's convention. People stare at you if you are not dressed exactly like they are, and it's like they can tell you are not one of them even if you just pulled off the highway to get a cup of coffee. I'm not denying the fact that it is ultra right wing Christian, nor am I going to deny that it is kinda creepy at times. However, the fact that they are helping prisoners get diplomas and college degrees speaks volumes to me. In a way your tax dollars are going to poor women, because their husbands have more of a chance to stay out of prison and support their families because of what Liberty does. Sure, it's probably laden with a heavy dose of Christian values, but hell, have you ever read the primers kids learned to read on in this country?

      In Adam's fall
      we sinned all
      on reason relied
      and so we died.

      That was the first line in the standard McGuffey reader used in all public and private schools.

      People survived the overdose of biblical indoctrination and did something with their lives. These guys in prison sit around all day and play cards because there is NOTHING else to do. I'm sorry, but I don't care whose behind the good deed, or what their political or religious bend is, if they are doing something positive to help guys who went to prison as kids get out and have a chance to take care of themselves or their families I am willing to overlook the religions undertones. Ok, probably overtones, but that's just how I feel about it. I hate these "for profit" prison systems that do nothing to help those they hold. They not only make money on those our fucked up legal system incarcerates, but they make money on their family members. People on the outside have to support those on the inside, and everything inside is overpriced. Mothers whose husbands go to jail for failure to pay child support aren't getting any help, they are probably working twice as hard to support their kids and their husband inside, or he can't call his kids, can't buy underwear for the cold winters, can't buy soap. Most people don't have a clue what goes on in America's prisons.

      I guess if "Atheists United" wanted to do something to help prisoners get an education they might be able to apply for and get federal dollars too, but we both know it's unlikely they are going to give a shit about anything other than making sure nobody is shoving God down anyone's throat.

    • 1 year ago
  • Nicolawoo
  • letsliveinpeace
  • sugarlilly
    • +2
      sugarlilly  

    • hello education is also a business. they made it so expensive because the mental freedom of an education also brings mental freedom from their money rat race. fuck all that noise i'd like to try to see them repossess this education. sorry i had to default on all my loans sallie, frannie & freddie. "there's a job market outside of nepotism" *** i had my fingers crossed, i really did.

    • 1 year ago
  • btodder
  • SoCalFramer
    • 0
      SoCalFramer  

    • Harvard was named after its first benefactor, John Harvard. Although it was never formally affiliated with a church, the college primarily trained Congregationalist and Unitarian clergy. Which school would you rather attend? Harvard was established by Unitarians.

    • 1 year ago
  • bambuu
  • grammabet
    • 0
      grammabet  
    • bambuu:

      They're probably not allowed.It wouldn't interest me. My grandmom turned me against this biased pharahsee,or however you spell the word. Phony christian.She used to make me watch him,she was from a different era.It's way overdue time for Pat Robinson also.Something is seriously wrong with him and his followers. Pat get back on your aricept, alzheimers med.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • bambuu:

      You would probably be surprised. I've been through Lynchburg, VA, which is where Liberty U is located, and it is indeed mighty white, not to mention that catchy town name, but I could almost guarantee you there are very few higher education schools in the US that do not have at least a modicum of diversity in their student population. If a school has a credible engineering and/or law program, it most certainly has Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and Sikh students attending.

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +5
      PoliticalAmazon  

    • Obama, again, breaks a campaign promise by allowing GWBush's faith-based policies to stand---meaning those who receive our tax-payer funding can discriminate on who they hire.

      ------------------------------------

      "Faith-Based Program Falls Short"
      Mar 11, 2010 – 6:00 AM

      By Barry W. Lynn, Executive Director of Americans United For Separation of Church and State

      "(March 11) -- Why does President Barack Obama support a policy that lets a Baptist homeless shelter take tax dollars and then refuse to hire Jews, Hindus or nonbelievers to change the sheets or ladle out the morning oatmeal? Particularly when it violates a clear campaign promise.
      In 2008, candidate Obama told an audience in Zanesville, Ohio, that he would make major changes in the way religious entities were funded. Under President George W. Bush's "faith-based" program, government grants and contracts went to religious groups to provide social services, even when those groups insisted on discriminatory hiring practices -- applicants could be denied federally funded jobs, based solely on religious affiliation or beliefs.
      During his presidential campaign, Obama specifically promised that "if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion."
      This sounded pretty unequivocal. But more than a year has gone by since Obama set up his Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and no substantive policy has been changed, least of all discriminatory hiring.
      Some "faith based" organizations maintain that even when a job is secular and "menial," they feel more "comfortable" hiring only those of their own religious tradition. This sounds like what airlines used to say when men sought jobs as flight attendants: "Our passengers feel more comfortable with pretty women." Comfort level is not a justification for discrimination in employment when government funds or regulations are involved.....

      -------------------

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +2
      PoliticalAmazon  

    • Most people don't know this, but President Obama, in the first few weeks he was in office, met in the WH with several different church groups. In these meetings, he spoke to them about the expanded role he planned to give churches via the "faith-based" social and education services.

      During that time he did not meet with ONE--not ONE--group advocating what the Constitution demands: Separation of Church and State.

      Obama took GWBush's faith-based services program and greatly expanded it.

      While Bush seemed to target congressional districts with the workshops on how to apply for the faith-based services money, the Obama administration flat-out--literally--calls up religious leaders and asks for their political help

      Worse, Obama abandoned his promise to

      ---------------

      ------------

      http://www.getreligion.org/2010/10/obamas-faith-based-office-criticized/
      "Obama’s faith-based office criticized"

      10/14/2010

      "Under President Obama, the faith-based office has been used literally to call up religious leaders and ask them for their support. This has happened repeatedly. It happened last year when President Obama needed political help for his unpopular health care legislation. And it happened a few weeks ago for the same reason. In fact, the evidence suggests that political outreach to religious allies has been the main function of the office. The media have largely yawned at this, as tmatt noted last week. It’s not that there hasn’t been any coverage but, unlike during the previous administration, it’s just been shockingly blase and unconcerned. Different partisans defend one office over the other, of course. The media seem to be in one camp. Last year around this time, the Pew Charitable Trusts found that President Obama’s “faith-based initiative has so far generated little of the contentious press coverage associated with Bush’s effort.” The situation has not equalized.
      "But the use of the office for political help isn’t the only newsworthy issue. I’ve heard from more than a few reporters frustrated with the lack of action and information coming from director Joshua DuBois, pictured here. It’s almost impossible to find out what, if anything, the office has done in a non-political sense. In July, Washington Post reporter Michelle Boorstein actually put out an APB to readers for information on what’s happening in the office in terms of policy and implementation..... (article continues)

      ----------------------

    • 1 year ago
  • derk
    • +8
      derk  

    • Why are we not giving this money to community colleges?? (Publicly-funded) vouchers should only be for public schools ...

      I can't think of one reason why the federal government should be providing money to private schools while public institutions are starving to death.

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +4
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • derk:

      Indeed. Economists know that it is our two-year community colleges that will be needed for the massive job-retraining programs we must undertake if we are to achieve sustainable decrease in our unemployment.

      What you get from places like Liberty College are professionals with an agenda to quietly work their way up in the ranks until they can use their power to institute changes in government policies that will help spread their own specific religion.

      Probably 12-14 years ago, when I was researching the Christian Reconstructionist's stealth spread into the homeschooling movement, I met another researcher (at a homeschooling convention, of course) who was homeschooling her own children. She had become shocked, and then horrified, at the inroads Christian Reconstructionism was making into the homsechooling movement.

      Here is the url to an article by Mrs. McCarthy. (The introduction is mine.): http://www.politicalamazon.com/fcf-homeschooling.html

      If you are interested in learning more about Christian Reconstructionism and what kind of inroads they have already made into changing our government policies to fit their Old-Testament view of law and order, at the bottom of Mrs. McCarthy's article, there are a list of articles about Christian Reconstruction. They are just a handful of the many I have written over the years.

      The first one listed, about how CR has taken over the GOP in California, is very scary. McClintock is a CR-bought-and-paid-for politician.

      The last article, God's Vice-Regents, is from Mother Jones, and uses the research another friend of mine did on the politics of California. My article is kind of an update to the MJ article.

    • 1 year ago
  • timetide
    • +2
      timetide  
    • PoliticalAmazon:

      yay, somebody else who knows about the CR's subversive tactics in place like OC and etc. Alot of my friends have been approched to work as teachers at their variety of homeschooling programs (homeschool my ass if the classroom have over 30 students).. its scary the amount of money they are offering for starting 1 year contracts.

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +1
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • timetide:

      If you have a chance, go to a homeschooling convention or large gathering where there will be a vendor's hall. Spend some time in the vendor's hall, and you'll see CR-themed homeschooling-workbooks, text books, etc.

      There are magazines, of course, for parent-homeschool-educators, and some are rife with some scary CR themes, as well.

      I went to one locally (tip: don't go to a local convention because a) it will scare you and, b) you will see people you know there), right before the Clinton election for his second term, and the keynote speech was a cross between a Republican party convention and a tent-revival meeting.

      The branch of homeschooling that is, IMO, the worst is the "biblical worldview" approach. In the workshops I've attended, this approach only teaches what agrees with a literal interpretation of the Bible. If it doesn't support and/or jive with what is said in the Bible, then it either isn't taught, or it is spun so it somehow fits with the Bible. In the end, it must always glorify God and Jesus.

      In some cases, the homeschooling lecturers just flat-out make stuff up so that it "glorifies God/Jesus."

      Example: In one workshop I attended, which I chose specifically because the speaker sells a lot of tapes/DVDs on biblical worldview homeschooling, this is what the audience was told: George Washington Carver got down on his knees and prayed during his United Nations appearance, glorifying God before the entire world.

      Okay---how many here have eyes that are about to pop out of their heads?

      The United Nations was not formed until 1945 and George Washington Carver died in January 1943.

      If you are interested in all in what your taxpayer dollars are paying for in education, Google "Biblical Worldview" and check out some of their articles and educational materials.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • PoliticalAmazon:

      One of the most highly regarded schools in this nation, the place where diplomats send their children to school is in Fairfax, VA and is (oh gasp) a Christian school.

      Do you know why diplomats of all religious persuasions send their kids to this school? Because the education they get is kick ass, and it is private and Christian. Does it turn Muslim kids from Turkey into Christians? No, probably not, but it sends them out the door with an education that cannot be obtained in the public schools of DC.

      I am concerned about the fact that the GOP would like to further entrench the line between the haves and the have nots, and their use of "so-called" Christian principles to do so is bullshit. I am adamantly opposed to private school vouchers and consider it a travesty to use public funds for private school education, because the vouchers don't pay the entire tuition, they just help pay the private school bill for those who can afford it, and the kids in the public schools whose parents can't afford it end up with even less money going towards their education or the support of their schools. This, America, is shooting yourself in the foot. I do not support that bullshit, no matter how cleverly they attempt to couch their language in words like choice. However, I don't think that is the same thing as allowing Liberty U. access to public funds like Pell grants for education. People should not be excluded from attending that school because Pell grants are only available to public institutions. It's different than K-12 education, and the entire scheme of funding is different. Not saying I like the way K-12 is publicly funded either. When you base a school's funding on the price of the real estate in the area of the school you guarantee inequity. We need to change the way we fund public education, but vouchers are NOT the answer.

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
  • grammabet
  • grammabet
    • +2
      grammabet  
    • grammabet:

      Sorry, the word was supposed to be "ALLEDGED" preachers. Pay back time is coming for Obama soon.He was the lesser of the evils I thought but too much business as usual is causing too much hurt, pain and devastation to the USA. What do we have to choose from to get this country back on it's feet for the average working class family?

    • 1 year ago
  • wayseeker
    • +4
      wayseeker  

    • I need some money from Congress too. I want to start a college. We will teach whatever subjects the other colleges teach. . . along with the fact that Zeus is still the Supreme Being. When can I expect my checks to arrive?

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +5
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • wayseeker:

      Contact Obama's "Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships" for information. Rest assured that, not only can you pay yourself, your family members, and your pals using our taxpayer money, for your faith-based services...but you can also discriminate in your hiring practices.

    • 1 year ago
  • sugarlilly
  • Warren_Merrill
    • -4
      Warren_Merrill  

    • Every college except Hillsdale gets a lot of federal money. Liberty receiving federal money isn't news. A majority of colleges have a religious affiliation. There's a church/synogogue right on campus.

    • 1 year ago
  • savvy7
    • +9
      savvy7  

    • That is precisely what "vouchers" that are so deified by conservatives would do, i.e. enable people to have their offspring indoctrinated with religion on your and my dime. No thanks.

    • 1 year ago
  • Warren_Merrill
  • Warren_Merrill
    • 0
      Warren_Merrill  
    • Warren_Merrill:

      I see we have five teachers (-5) in the crowd. Do I hear six? Vouchers and charter schools are the bogeymen to many teachers. Schools that are fled from with vouchers expose the school. Charter schools show there is a right direction. By the way the guy who directed the movie is a liberal. He can see the truth. Too bad teacher's unions can't.

    • 1 year ago
  • chew_chew
  • telcod
    • +3
      telcod  

    • As a gun-totten, ACLU supporting, anti-abortion, pro woman's equal rights, pre-Christian, recovering Catholic, Veteran, former Boy Scout, Democracy Now listening, good old boy, I can say," Oops!" and "WTF!" Jerry Farewell was a fascist asshole and NPR is a little to sell out milk toasty for me, but frankly in the regards to the division of church and state, I would rather see a division of corporations and state.

    • 1 year ago
  • Debra_
  • vovk
    • -1
      vovk  

    • Just any other university, the students get pell grants and then they pay their tuition. If students want to go to that school, they should be able to go, after all this is the land of the free...You should be able to go to any school you want to.

    • 1 year ago
  • iowawashington
    • +6
      iowawashington  
    • vovk:

      I completely agree with the statement that students should be free to attend whatever institution of "learning" they choose. I do take issue with paying for them to amass a $100,000 of subsidized student loans to attend nursing aid courses that qualify them for a $20,000 a year job when they graduate. I also take issue with paying for subsidized student loans for a student to attend a religious institution. Let their church pay for that kind of indoctrination.

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
  • PeteLeS33
    • +3
      PeteLeS33  

    • As a non believer I am appalled that this much of my tax money would go to priviate religious institutions. Enough is enough. But yet The House had to have an "EMERGENCY MEETING" to stop funding for NPR. If these bastards want a Secular/religious war than they are fucking with the wrong people!

    • 1 year ago
  • telcod
  • gypsysailor
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +2
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • gypsysailor:

      You'd have to shut down Obama as president first.

      Once again, he is continuing the Bush/Cheney administration politics--he hasn't even bothered to change the fact that these religious schools that get our taxpayer money can discriminate against anyone they want in hiring.

    • 1 year ago
  • Conniepae
    • +8
      Conniepae  

    • They receive a half billion dollars in federal aid money, while seniors and poor Americans look forward to cuts in Medicare and Medicaid. Doesn't seem very Godly to me.

      America is so far off course, it makes one wonder if we can ever get back to the great country we were before we were taken over by the radical religious right. Religion should not end up hurting people. Sadly, that is exactly what is happening. They have interjected their skewed views into American politics and corrupted our country.

      If they aren't godly, they should not carry the title of religious! Sad, sad, sad!

    • 1 year ago
  • bluestranger
    • +2
      bluestranger  
    • Conniepae:

      Sad indeed Conniepae. Jerry Falwell is to believers what Gordon Gecko was to Wall Street. Even though I'm a Heathen, it is still painful to watch these electronic shaman fleece the little old ladies. My great grandmother sent her change in to one of the radio preachers like she was on a lay-away plan. America started down this path when the gops and the moral majority made their pact. Looks like Falwell and Reagan are getting the last laugh.

    • 1 year ago
  • Conniepae
    • +1
      Conniepae  
    • bluestranger:

      I'm afraid you are right. The friends of Falwell and Reagan now have control of how we receive the message. Today, MSNBC was removed from the other 24hr news channels on Time Warner Cable. This didn't happen by accident! MSNBC is a 'voice of reason', which threatens the spinners, with the truth. Facts matters, the truth matters more!

      Old line-up ---- New line-up
      -------------- ---------------
      34 CNN -------- CNN
      35 HLN --------- HLN
      36 CNBC ------ Sport Time Ohio
      37 MSNBC --- CNBC
      38 Fox News -- FOX News
      39 C-Span ---- C-span

      26 'who remembers' ---- MSNBC

      No this didn't happen by accident. But, how many busy Americans don't have the time to think about such things. They are moving along to a harder life. Gasoline to get back and forth to work, is at the level it was when the economy fell apart in 2008. This isn't happening by accident either. If people are hurting, they move along to such trivial things.

      Sadly, we shouldn't be moving along to a 'voice of reason', being moved away from news. One has to enter the number, or go backward eight channels from CNN. Nope, it didn't happen by accident. Time Warner is apparently part of the problem. They made a choice to move MSNBC away from other news channels. It would be to obvious to cancel the channel, so trying to lower the numbers of viewers is an alternative. Sad, sad, sad!

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
  • bike10
    • +5
      bike10  

    • I want my tax paid money back that went to Liberty University and go to Planned Parenthood.

      By the way Jerry the way you hated the federal government will you pay the mone back?

    • 1 year ago
  • Debra_
  • Richard_Wyatt
  • Darevalo
  • bambuu
    • +4
      bambuu  

    • Its very disturbing too me that public funds are being steered towards private religious far right wing schools.

    • 1 year ago
  • Warren_Merrill
  • bundlebear
    • +6
      bundlebear  

    • i'm all for people who need pell grants but this is taking away funds for people who really need it for higher learning that don't involve crazy religious teachings

    • 1 year ago
  • crash_text_dummy
    • +3
      crash_text_dummy  
    • bundlebear:

      the problem is this:

      pell grants are based on enrollment
      online enrollment is the NOT the same economically as attend enrollment

      it costs an institution far far less to teach online

      so
      online enrollment should not be counted as equal to attend

      online = cheap ass
      attend = expensive

      pell online = little
      pell attend = as is

    • 1 year ago
  • bundlebear
  • iowawashington
    • 0
      iowawashington  
    • crash_text_dummy:

      The reality is that online programs cost students thousands more than traditional brick and mortar programs. The schools sell the convenience factor - you can study from home on your own time, while your kids are in bed. Whether or not it costs the school more, the students pay more.

    • 1 year ago
  • crash_text_dummy
  • crash_text_dummy
  • savroD
    • -5
      savroD  

    • Reading this makes me want to puke!

      Yet, the middle-of-the-roaders can't see the sense of voting for a REAL progressive. No, they would rather take comfort with idiots like Obama and Hillary pandering to the religious voters!

    • 1 year ago
  • crash_text_dummy
    • +1
      crash_text_dummy  
    • savroD:

      what drug are YOU taking?!
      i want some of that stupid too because i think you're an idiot
      and that's just not nice of me is it?
      so gimme some of yours so i can dumb down and be... a complacent dork

    • 1 year ago
  • savroD
  • bluestranger
  • bundlebear
  • cherry5000
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