How Socialists Built America

Socialism per se didn't really come into being until well after the founding of our country, so you won't find any self-avowed Socialists among the founding fathers. I think what the article was attempting to point out is that along the way several presidents, governors, and other leaders have borrowed ideas that were socialistic in nature and applied it to our country. Some of these ideas are foundational (like the postal system and common defense), but most are things just picked up along the way that a large plurality of Americans widely support.

I'll agree with you, Obama isn't a Socialist, and making that assertion is (usually) done for sensationalist purposes. My take of the article isn't so much arguing that Socialism is a good thing (though it does make the point some socialist policies are good for the country and the citizens), but that the word 'Socialism' is nothing to fear.

Unbridled Capitalism has a significant amount of losers, and so does Socialism (and Fascism, Communism, etc.). In theory Socialism or Capitalism may work wonderfully, but in practice it's quite a different story. A prudent approach might be to figure out which services we'd like to have a purely capitalistic approach and which ones would best be handled with a commonwealth or socialistic approach. It's this conversation with this dialogue that is lacking.

Some among us believe that Capitalism is a four letter word, while others believe that Socialism is an assault on man's basic rights. Neither it true. What sounds like a bandwagon to you, sounds like an out-of-tune orchestra to me. The brass and woodwind sections are playing in competition with each other rather than complementing each other.

A socialistic, cost-sharing, commonwealth, non-profit approach is probably best for some services. A capitalistic, competitive, profit-driven, free-market approach is undoubtedly better for others. Again, the article (I believe) is trying to make the point that this open and honest conversation needs to happen, else we will just keep squawking different tunes at each other.......

Nationalism, statehood, a military, organized law enforcement, public education, medicare, social security, and anything that the public collectively provides themselves with their own money, is a "SOCIAL" device. To ever have a total capitalistic society, even the military and law enforcement would need be private industry.

From our beginnings, this country was always it's own unique blend of social and capitalistic features, benefits and characteristics, with capitalists perpetually striving to privatize as much of the people's meeting of their own needs, which would yield them their own private profits, at the people's greater expense. Since all privatization consists of what are now, immense profit margins, capitalism has proven that it does not provide the needs and services of the people at the least cost, but that it is wholly unreliable to do so without calamitous results; such as bringing the world to the edge of financial collapse at great social expense, when left to do so without continuous oversight.

Since corporations have influenced the decisions of government from day 1, which resulted in pro business legislation, there never has been a "FREE MARKET" in the United States. With the plethora to pro business legislation today, the market is manipulated to the opposite end of the spectrum from "free".

They certainly do appear to be working over hard, the prejudices of the people. I can't help but see it everyday in the news.

So . True !

I think you have socialism confused with something else (see definition below). But here are some comments about the so-called beneficiaries of socialism.

Post office seriously in debt, will be out of business in 5 yrs. Service has been steadily declining for years. Postal workers look for ways to avoid working - I know because my Uncle worked for years and could do his route in 1/2 the time needed except when the postal inspector arrived.

Public education - deteriorating significantly in many cities, before the cutbacks.

Computers - the internet was created by the Dept of Defense and most technology advances in computers were the result of Defense research including the almighty microchip.

Space travel - not really, it was a private-public partnership; only because of innovative private firms; Defense played critical role.

Fire-Police > public safety was considered at the founding of our country as was the post office (unfortunately unions ruined the PO).

Highways - socialism - maybe? was created to foster interstate commerce and aid significantly the U.S. auto business Today, ask those in CA which highways they like better the private tollroads or the public "parking lots"

Air travel - what do you mean? Air travel has been private since the Wright Bros. It is only now becoming a serious problem on the public side - FAA controllers sleeping, incompetent; TSA - need I say more.

Do your homework before making such sweeping generalizations.
Definition of SOCIALISM
1- any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 - a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 - a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Post Office- Would be totally solvent if not for the corporate welfare it hands out everyday in the form of bulk rate mailing prices on junk mail.
Public Education - Would be doing alot better if not for cuts in funding and the bullshit called "no child left behind".
Computers - ENIAC was developed by Dept. of Defense, last time I checked is a govt. agency.
Space Travel - I believe they call that agency NASA, and with the exception of The X-prize winner, they have been the only Americans to send humans into space.
Fire and Police - With very few exceptions are publicly funded.
Air travel - The Wright Bros flew all of 120 ft. at less than 20 mph. True modern Aviation was developed through the govt. with planes reaching speeds of 450 mph by 1945. And development of the jet engine was completely govt. funded.
Highways - Public roads built this nation into the economic giant it is, private corps. taking roads and turning them into turnpikes sucks. I ran into these in Florida, if your idea of a good drive includes stopping every 5 miles or so to pay them a dollar, I'll stick with public roads.
As far as the definition of socialism, I think we are discussing the term as defined by the cons on the right meaning any service provided by the government which improves the lives of anyone other than the rich. In the way that countries like France and Sweden are labeled as socialist for providing health care and education as rights instead of privileges for those fortunate enough to be able to afford them.
How's that for homework?

We're going in the wrong direction.....from farm co-ops to companies like Cargill .....who have way too much control over food and other commodities.
Cargill, like Koch Industries, is also a privately held company. If I'm not mistaken they ARE the two Biggest privately owned companies in the USA.
Koch Industries revenue is over 100 Billion per year and I wouldn't be surprised to see them or a representative on that list of names who attended one of the Koch's private retreats.

This is from the Cargill wiki.

"Cargill, Incorporated is a privately held, multinational corporation, based in Minnetonka, Minnesota. Founded in 1865, it is now the largest privately held corporation in the United States in terms of revenue.
If it were a public company, it would rank in the top 10 companies in the Fortune 500. Some of Cargill's major businesses are trading, purchasing and distributing grain and other agricultural commodities; trading in energy, steel and transport; the manufacture and sale of livestock and feed; producing food ingredients such as starch and glucose syrup, vegetable oils and fats for application in processed foods and industrial use.

Cargill declared revenues of $116.6 billion and earnings of $3.33 billion in the 2009 fiscal year."

Too late. Don't eat most food if you don't like the idea of large companies controlling some aspects of the food market. Most of corn biproducts - corn syrup found in many processed foods, other corn derivatives comes fr Cargill & Archer Daniels.

But its not these companies that are screwing up the food market right now. Its the green subsidies for ethanol-based fuels. Ethanol subsidy provides incentive to produce ethanol instead of corn. Ethanol also comes in the form of sugar-ethanol which would be better ethanol source. Guess what - that primarily comes from Brazil and the govt has placed tarrifs on this so we don't use it. It maybe tied into overall sugar tarrifs that protect the very small sugar industry in the U.S.

Corn shortages result from ethanol leading to shortage of feedstock for cattle (farmers have been killing off their livestock in past couple of yrs) and thus rising meat prices, dairy prices. Increased land use by corn for ethanol leads to less land available for soy and wheat. Thus those prices rise. Get the picture. We are using our food supply for the benefit of saving some carbon. By the way ethanol has very little positive impact upon carbon and mph because this gas is less efficient then pure gas and thus higher total miles consumed & higher carbon usage.

Obama would veto it. Sure hope we don't get a rep. in the white house. Good comment.

Thanks, I to hope that people are not stupid enough to vote in a GOPer in 2012 or the Oligarch will take over the country. I know some progressive do not think he has done enough, but look what he has been up against? These new GOPer are much worse than when Clinton was in power. Even when the Democrats had the majority in both houses, the GOP manages to either water things down or filibuster every progressive bill (with the help of the Blue Dogs). Look how many bills that passed in Congress died on the floor of the Senate. Now look what happened last November, because they gave up on the President the GOP in Congress are even more far right-wing. I hope voters realize that he is the only one right now between them and the poor house.

Excellent comment miles_ahead Applauded and +^d!!!

I didn't think so.

That would be an interesting parallel universe experiment to see how that broken promise instead kept would have compared to the forced sharecropping, exploitative industrial laboring, and chronically diminished educational opportunities for several generations that they experienced in reality.

I'd take the trade because I could grow clean non-GMO food without toxic gene-altering carcinogenic pesticides.

I agree but they already started!!!!!!!!!

you forgot greed and selfishness!!!!!!!!