Dogfighting Phone App "Cruel," "Sickening," Says LAPD Union Chief

I have to take your gramma's side on this, after all I wouldn't trashy neon signs making my neighborhood look trashier than it is.

This is not protected by the First Amendment.

mmhhmmm but you didn't deny paying for sex with a whore.....interesting...

Let's sign away our rights to freedom of expression!

Animal Cruelty isn't expressing yourself, its fucking disgusting.

I agree with what you said about Animal cruelty, but it does not apply to video games. I have kids and animals in my house and I would never harm any one of them. I love them to death! They are my whole world. It is wrong of you to attempt to smear me with falsehoods just to try to make your point. Most of your comments are awesome, but not this one. There really was no reason to insult me by implying something bad about me that is the complete opposite of truth.

Sorry about that I'm a little grrr this morning, and dog fighting upsets me, but your right the attack was unwarranted. I still think that such a video game shouldn't be out there, I wont ask for any kind of legal action nor would I support it. But I will boycott Google, and yes that would be hard but it could be done.

It's ok friend. I understand. The idea of hurting innocent animals makes me grrr too.

we're expressing our dislike for animal cruelty and google that's enabling an entity to benefit or profit from it in any way....or on any format...does that fit your definition of freedom? there's also the freedom from oppression , and I think good dogs have saved plenty of human lives so it's only fair we speak up for the ones that end up being oppressed due to such promotions and endorsements.

I think I've been misunderstood on this forum as being for laws against these types of games and hence free speech. I'm actually meaning what I think you are meaning by about making it clear to these thoughtless people by protesting and doing it loudly enough to get our message to them. I wonder how many making comments today are parents.

Yes it does match my definition of freedom. You should totally stand up for what you believe in.

Yes I did misunderstand you (sorry) and I am a father of 4 and I love animals, but I'm not sure what you mean by wondering how many of us are parents since video games are not just for kids (just like all movies aren't for kids).

i agree with you... this is just an app... if we start banning everything that makes people uneasy, we wont have anything left

its impossible to be cruel to animals through a cell phone application. you dont like the IDEA of the app... i get that... i dont either... but its not hurting anyone... why dont you campaign against grand theft auto... the game thats teaching kids to run over prostitutes and shoot anyone they see on the streets... animals are more important than humans though right

then ban all video games depicting any type of violence. just because this issue is important to you, doesnt mean that every other issue that anyone else finds offensive is less of an issue, does it? why is this so important but mortal combat is ok? lets ban everything...

No I dont like the idea, thats what I am against, and I get it, people do far worse things to human beings in video games. Grand theft auto and its ilk are just as ridiculous but people can defend themselves, dogs cant.

I suppose if the Mortal Combat fighters were based on characters that were enslaved and trafficked as pit fighters, I'd have an issue with it. Then it's just a matter of semantics, I also wouldn't have an issue with this game if they had gone with something closer to a fantasy theme, because there's a clear distinction between fantasy and reality. To a lot of teens that remove themselves from conventional and respectful society, playing a character in a simulated world is next to being part of a society albeit even a simulated one.

BTW, I do cringe when I see a special move on mortal combat in x-ray vision, but that is more likely to discourage me from fighting, but it is still a very fantasy oriented game. Unlike a game about my dog eating your dogs guts in a pit...

Thanks for your in-depth comment. You've explained a lot.

that!, is an interesting angle, good research

These facts are very interesting, but killing and torturing a real animal is different than "killing" a bunch of pixels designed to look like an animal in a video game. I hope we can agree to that, because otherwise I'm already a serial killer, having killed thousands of people in all of the GTA games and First Person Shooters I've played. I've also abused and killed hundreds of turtles by stomping on their heads and kicking their shells off of cliffs or hitting them with fireballs. Oh, and all the ducks I've killed playing Duck Hunt. I'm a horrible person for all of those ducks! I even tried to shoot that dog who always laughed at me when I missed, but for some reason I could never hit him! With all the people and animals (not to mention aliens, zombies, and poor harmless walking mushrooms) I've killed in video games, it's a miracle I haven't actually killed anyone in real life!

Doing something in a game doesn't mean you're going to do it in real life!

This may be true but, dog fighting is a real problem and should not be glorified or have the exent of its horror lessond in any way. I too am a gamer but this is a type of game that sickens me. This type of app will be popular with the type of people who think dogfighting is "cool." And trust me those people do not value human or animal life.

I agree with you.

exactly

That's no reason to limit free speech.

These people are not interested in "free speech." The people who would play this game are interested in violence, bloodshed, and brutality. They do not consider dogs as being living feeling creatures. What dogs are to these people is a money making investment. This also holds true to the producers of this game. They are only interested in making the almighty dollar. So in the spirit of "free speech" should apps be created for pediphiles so that they can play "rape the little children? Not every opinion is worthy of free speech. The use of free speech comes with a great responsibility that many people ignore.

I am not for the limitation of free speech. But I am for the right to push back against speech that I do not agree with. You claim that I am l limeting the "free speech" of these game producers and players. But am I not exercising my right of free speech and protest to let them know that I find their product to be disgusting? Am I not exercising my right of "free speech" when I sign a petition to get the producer to stop making this vile game avaliable? You my friend must undersant that free speech works both ways. There will be people who don't like and will protest my ideas and try to stop others from knowing about them and I am ok with that. And therefore I will return the favor.

I get what you're saying that you are not actually advocating limiting free speech. I also support your right to protest and act based on your own opinions/values. My opinions about how you cannot extrapolate how a person is in the real world from what they do in video games is made clear in my other comments. You as a gamer should know that if someone likes to play violent video games it does not mean that person is interested in real-life "violence, bloodshed, and brutality". That's like blaming Columbine on video games or the Matrix movies. I support your right to protest this game though. I really do. I just wouldn't support passing any laws to make it illegal to pretend to do illegal things.

I am not blaming the actions of a person on the content of a video game. My point is that people who are attrected to this type of culture will support this game. The creators of this game state that they created it to show the "cruelty of dog fighting" I am not buying it. This game glorifies this gore fest. People who are already partially dissasociated from the consiquences of dog fighting will lose any compasion they may have left for animals because they are being made into digital avitars. I too do not support restrictive laws and in earlier response I just wanted to make sure you knew where I was comming from. I think that the creators of this game should be made so uncomfortable by the voices that oppose so that they willingly pull this sad product because they are made aware of its cosiquences. That is how I deal with free speech I do not agree with. Educate. I still love ya. :-)

the problem I have with it...as far as game play is concerned it's no more challenging than say...pokemon except that they added some element of gore and applied it to animals that really can be trained to fight another animal to the death. Not only did they do that, they show you how to train your pooch for a real pit match....I love a good FPS but I haven't come accross one that legitimately shows me how to go about becoming a contract killer. GTA yeah it's got potential for violence and you certainly don't escape from it by following the story line, but it's no different than being semi-awake in your dream and controlling that dream to your whim,,,,which beats GTA any given day btw.

I mean you start to blur the lines of what's entertainment with what can be a horrific experience for another being, people can become somewhat jaded no? It's like the subway in NEW YORK if a mugging occurs don't expect anyone to act like it's happening around them, but in other parts of the country...it can be mob-law on ur behind. Lines need to be drawn, I don't want to go to the game store some day with my kid and have the title "human trafficking" next to "assassins' creed" and "hostages lose members". Those realities shouldn't be made any richer in any context...

You have stated your case very well and I'm in 100% agreement with you.

Well said.

Thank you. Good Evening Wayseeker. :-)

Touche.

Good evening.

Fitting comment for real dog fighters, however it is a far overreaching statement if you are talking about people who merely play violent video games.

Those that like to play this game just need a good ass kicking is all.

I disagree. Some people can tell the difference between play and real life. I've killed all sorts of things in video games -- it's just pretend. I think you are just having a hard time seeing how people can have fun playing violent video games even if they don't have a violent bone in their body. Well then, consider boys playing sword fights. Do you think they are going to grow up and actually want to stab people? No. They're just playing and that's all it is.

Which is worse, someone who plays pretend violent video games, or someone who wants to kick the very real asses of those who play violent video games?

No, people who put real dogs through real suffering need a good ass kicking.

I say there is something wrong with both of them. One will lead to the other.

That is the same "gateway drug" argument used against marijuana.

I play violent video games but never hurt another human being in my life. The idea of being violent against a person or animal (except in self-defense) makes me ill. I hate real violence, but video games are fun. I respectfully disagree with you.

Thats fine You have that right. I just don't see the enjoyment in fighting dogs be it real or a Video game. An No this is not the same argument as the one about a Herb being a Gateway drug. Because I know truth from fiction.

I wonder do You play this Game?? If so why don't You Tell Me your Home address. I will come by and We can Talk in person Face to Face.

LOL! No! Even if I did that's no reason to bring real violence to my home. I'll take that as a good humored joke though, as I'm sure it was intended.

Please confirm, because if I'm being threatened here, I will have a very real reaction to it. I have kids at my home and do not tolerate threats of violence. But like I said, I'm assuming your joking and if you are then I can laugh along with you.

Yes the argument that violent video games leads to real violence is the very same flawed, incorrect argument that cannabis leads to people dying of a heroine overdose in a gutter somewhere. It has the exact same logical structure, including a gigantic logical leap.

Well if you took that to be an act of violence I'm sorry. I have a hard time saying what I want to say in a manner that gets the point across. with a Key bourd. I am much better at debate when Face to Face with people. I think it is because I don't spell very well or form proper sentances. I have to use Google a lot. So as not to look like a total dumbass in my spelling Ya know what I mean? But I really do love to debate.

Naa I don't see it like that. even so the truth behind the old saying is true to some extent. If I had not had to go to a person that sold Hard drugs to get a bag of Herbs then I would have never been tempted to try Hard drugs. it is a chain that has gotten Many a soul. I have seen it first hand over an over.

Thanks for clarifying, although I don't think it would make sense to travel all the way to my house just to discuss this particular topic ;-)

The way I would phrase what you're saying is that cannabis prohibition (not cannabis itself) leads to people being exposed to hard core drugs when they otherwise would not be. I think that's what you're saying -- that prohibition leads to people being exposed to hard core drugs.

The argument that violent video games leads to real violence is not analogous to that. It would be analogous to the argument that cannabis itself leads people to want to do hard core drugs. In this analogy cannabis is a relatively harmless pretend violent video game, and hard core drugs represents actual violence.

I think we just disagree, but that's OK. We just see it differently.

Let's end where we do agree: People who really do dog fighting are horrible! I'm OK with just agreeing about that. Thanks for the debate.

Sure it would. Where do you live ?? Ha just kidding

People that Fight dogs are Cruel and Heartless people that I can agree with.

http://children.sh

I'm really tired of people using the right too free speech as an excuse to say and do anything they want. They are so afraid society may set some rules about what they cannot expose our children too. I'm not talking so much about laws as i am rules, meaning they should be ostracized and their gutter products boycotted by parents and other adults who love our children.

i'm so sick of people trying to ban everything that makes them uncomfortable

Except that "uncomfortable" is a massive understatement when it comes to cruelty to another living being.

Yours is an oversimplified statement.

Yes "uncomfortable" is a major understatement when it comes to cruelty to another living being. However, we're not talking about another living being, we're talking about a number of pixels designed to look like a living being. Killing a person or a dog (because there are some games where dogs attack you and you have to kill them to survive) in a video game isn't even close to killing one in real life. It's a tasteless game, but then I again I find Glen Beck, and Rush Limbaugh offensive, but I wouldn't take away their right to free speech and expression. This is a first amendment issue, not a "do you like it, or are you okay with it" one.

Video games are not just for kids.

Agreed ^'d

how is a mobile app a living being?

It's funny to me that this comment got negative votes. Anyone disagree with it? I'd love to debate anyone who does.

Well, I'M talking about another living being, because I definitely do believe -- in SOME cases -- that a human can be strongly influenced to go further with a seemingly benign act of violence. I'm only concerned about some responses -- I did not make a demand for censorship.

Playing with my words to just be a boor, yes?

There ARE a of of sick twisted people. We can only do so much towards protecting our children from these minds but we need to do all we can. To do less is to shirk our responsibility as adults with these innocent minds. .

"if violence from movies and video games really had a bad affect on your average person there would be alot more sick and twisted people in this country than there already is."

How old are you? When I was a kid there was none of this bullshit and kids didn't have to worry about child predators if they were playing out front. Kids didn't bring guns to school, sell drugs or even do hard drugs at a young age and the worst thing that happened were fist fights.

Things ARE out of control and there are a LOT more "sick and twisted" people in this country
and kids think that behavior is acceptable because of the sick shit people pass off as "games".

Then don't let your kids play the game? If you have kids you probably pay for their phone, so do your job as a parent and execute some parental discretion. I seriously doubt that the game is marketed toward kids. Protecting kids is a weak argument when games, TV shows, and movies have ratings. Do you think that the only things that should be on TV or in the theaters are family friendly shows and movies?

Games are not real, that's why they are fun. Most people would have no fun being shot at or shooting other people in real life, but they can play a role in a game and engage in a simulation of those activities and in that simulation they become fun. That doesn't mean they are going to go out and commit real acts of violence.

You really think it's games that are causing all the bad stuff to happen? Really? Culture is a two way street: culture affects the media, and media affects the culture. Kids were selling drugs and bringing guns to school long before things like that were showing up in games! You ever see West Side Story?

This dog fighting game is actually a great example of how wrong your reasoning is. There was dog fighting long before anyone decided to make a video game out of it, now you are blaming the game for all of the dog fighting that's going on! How absurd!

When you were a kid, there was no 24 hour psuedo-news channels scaring your parents about kidnappings some 2000 miles away. In fact, people were so adverse to talking about child rape, they hid it whenever they could. So no, you didn't worry about it when you were a child - not because it didn't happen - but because your parents weren't scared into complete pussies from the media. Fact is, you are more likely to be raped by a family member to this very day - than some sicko on the streets. That fact hasn't changed in 50 years.

Exactly

i start by knowing what my children are doing....instead of relying on government to protect my children from things i think are morally wrong I do it. Like any self respecting parent should.

well, that is a crock of sh*t, all of the evils humans do have been around for a long time, no one talked about them is all, do you know how many child molestation cases are surfacing from 30 40 or 50 years ago, from people who were too scared to say anything but are gaining courage due to the fact that they see other people doing it, you sir are an idiot.

"People who make games about killing cops and fighting dogs have no respect for life."

You should then apply this logic to all media. Do people who make movies, shows, songs, and books about killing cops and fighting dogs have no respect for life? Should we curb their free speech? There are ratings on games just like there are ratings on TV shows and movies. Clearly kids shouldn't be playing games like GTA, just like they shouldn't be watching the Saw movies, but who are you to tell me or anyone else that I'm a bad person because I like playing violent games, and I like watching violent movies?

If you want to stop "teaching" kids that maiming and killing are just a game then maybe you should throw away your TV. The First Amendment doesn't always result in pretty things, but I support it and it should apply to all media including video games. Making a game that you have to pay for about dog fighting is a far cry from yelling "fire" in a theater, because the mere act of downloading and playing it doesn't put anyone or any animal for that matter in any immediate risk.

So children should be legally allowed into x rated movies? Is there a line or not? Too you there doesn't appear to be one.

Where did you get that from jvpt's comment?

The limit is based on the rating system and act of throwing out the TV to halt any influence. Twas in his post.

No kids should not be able to get into X rated movies (they're called NC-17 now, but I digress), and kids shouldn't be playing this game, or GTA, or Medal of Honor, or any Rated M game. They are not for kids, many states have laws that fine retailers for selling M games to kids. That doesn't mean that as an adult I shouldn't be able to go to an X rated movie, or that I shouldn't play GTA, MOH, or even Dog Wars. I won't play Dog Wars, but I don't like the idea of anyone telling me what media I can or can't watch or interact with unless it is directly harming someone. If the media causes immediate potential for harm like some reporter revealing the position of troops actively engaged in combat, or is the direct result of abuse or exploitation of children then I'm fine with it being banned. Other than, that the First Amendment needs to trump what people find distasteful. Censorship is nearly always wrong. Discretion or self-censorship (in this case of the producers of this game) is a different matter. I have nothing wrong with them saying that this was a stupid idea and not releasing the game, but no one should be able to tell them they can't.

It's only a game!!! Get a grip. Fascism is not the answer.